Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #851 11/16/10 - 11/20/10

[Titch]

I have a question that hopefully someone may be able to answer...

I've been going over the dive search info from the Persistance. Well regarding the crab trap found & it's contents... Remember the blouse and/or other fabric that was tested by Aruban authorities as well as FBI? Remember the FBI determined it wasn;t a match to Natalee's blouse? Well, how do they really know?

Here's why I'm asking:
This is something that's bothered me for a long time. When clothes are purchased in a store and have a certain label on them, that label (tag) shows the country it was made in. It also shows the fabric content (100% Cotton, etc). Well what about if the blouse was mass marketed? If it were, then the label could read multiple countries of manufacture. Not only that, just using cotton as an example, it could state 100% cotton as the fabric and show the same design but not actually be the same "make-up" of that fabric even though it would still be 100% cotton.

Get this, which is a perfect example of what I'm stating here: My sons love Abercrombie & Fitch as well as Hollister. These are very popular name brand stores. They import from multiple countries of manufacture. I'm looking at 2 identical shirts from Abercrombie that are yellow in colorwith royal blue lettering on them, wrestling on the back. I bought one for my 16 y/o but had to go back a week later for my 14 y/o bc they both are into wrestling in hs. They are completely identical. Both state 100% cotton. Fabric appears identical, design, etc, both from Abercrombie. Well guess what: one of the shirts was made in Vietnam and the other one was made in China...not only that but they "feel" different. They might both be 100% cotton but the fabric contect or the way it was prepared is completely different. Even if it came from a different bolt the fabric fibers could be different.

So in closing, how does the FBI really know the blouse tested didn;t actually belong to Natalee. Wasn't it stated no dna was found? Or am I missing something?

[San]

Dave's approach is very different.  I have always enjoyed Beth's approach.  In my opinion Beth was the one who would stir the pot in Aruba.  Aruba knew Beth would not give up.  In the same instance I believe Aruba knew they could get around Dave.

Let's not forget the Steph Watts interview with Tim Miller.  Beth spoiled their plans.  Did it really matter who had what plan as long as the result was the same.  I feel Beth was left out of Dave's plan so at the first opportunity she got to confront Joran she jumped at it.

There is more to this.  Wasn't it said that Beth wouldn't do any more interviews.

I believe the bone was a plant also.  We all know it was.

[SunnyinTX]

One more thing. If Aruba does get jurisdiction I believe they will do the right thing to clear their good name and make peace with tourism.

I respectfully disagree....Aruba has had more than one opportunity to 'do the right thing' and 'clear their name'...sorry I can't post GOOD  as a descriptive adjective for Aruba's name....

[SunnyinTX]

From last night 11.17.10  Transcript  NG
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/17/ng.01.html

imo, the whole thing isn't worth posting. I'll let you guys decide which, if any parts to post....

thanks Nut...I respect your opinion and see no need for me to even read it

[SunnyinTX]

Who said or tested the found object and said it was a small white female. Isn't that beyond their capabilites on the rock? I am trying to not get excited. Too many other times.

I agree. I'm not sure that you could find a forensic anthropologist in every university here in America. Unless someone is on Indian dig there for the last 5 years. So what big find is in Aruba that would keep an anthropologist there?  Every time they find anything with a bone we have an instant expert there. If they do have a resident, name them and their credentials or at least why they never leave the island. So all anthropologists just spread out across every island in the Caribbean?

Anita fancies herself an anthropologist and Paulus a judge, although neither is either.

   Hi Tyler, I hope you're well.  It's good to hear from you.   

Ditto...it always so good to see that red rose!!

[Lisa in MD]

One more thing. If Aruba does get jurisdiction I believe they will do the right thing to clear their good name and make peace with tourism.

I respectfully disagree....Aruba has had more than one opportunity to 'do the right thing' and 'clear their name'...sorry I can't post GOOD  as a descriptive adjective for Aruba's name....

I think Aruba has reached a point that they are willing to do what it takes to get the monkey off their
back as long as the word corruption is dropped and that is a total Nodda , Never, Not! 

[jen3560]

Titch - I agree with your point, but here's my hang up.

According to Kyle and to the pictures we saw - the fabric recovered looked nothing like a "blouse" of any sort, IMO.  It looked like denim.  Like a skirt.

So for me the question is - what the he!! did Aruba send to the FBI to test anyway?  And where did it come from?

[Tamikosmom]

I think Aruba has reached a point that they are willing to do what it takes to get the monkey off their
back as long as the word corruption is dropped and that is a total Nodda , Never, Not! 

Lisa in MD

Aruba will attempt to get Beth Holloway off its back ... the mother who will be the voice for her daughter until answers are forthcoming ... by allowing "only" Joran take the fall for illegally disposing of a body following the apparent death of Natalee Holloway as a result of a fall or an apparent seizure/overdose.  Case Closed!  All others who were detained as suspects in the case will be non-issues.  All those within the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in the cover up agenda will be non-issues.

IMO

Janet

+++++++

Suspects in the Natalee Holloway Case

Joran van der Sloot

6/2005 - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder

11/2008 - Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in the death of Holloway.

 
Deepak Kalpoe

6/2005 - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

8/2005 - Suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences and even more alternately, raping somebody and new suspicions.

11/2008 - Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in the death of Holloway.


Satish Kalpoe

6/2005 - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.

8/2005 - Suspected of the primary criminal act of together with other people committing premeditated murder, alternately together with other people murdering somebody, more alternately rob a person of her liberty with fatal consequences and even more alternately, raping somebody and new suspicions.

11/2008 - Suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in the death of Holloway.


Paulus van der Sloot

6/2005 -  complicity to pre-meditated murder, complicity to kidnapping and murder and kidnapping.


Steve Croes

6/2005 - Suspicion of murder and kidnapping as well as being an accessory to murder.   


Geoffrey van Cromvoirt

4/2006 - criminal offenses that may be related to the disappearance"of Natalee Holloway.


Guido Weaver:

4/2006 - Assisting in the murder, heavy battery and kidnapping" of the teen


Freddy Alexander Zedan Armbatzis

Nancy Grace - August 29, 2005

NANCY GRACE, HOST:  Thank you very much for being with us, Beth. So much happening. What do you think this means, the arrest of the Kalpoe brothers, and what do you have to tell us tonight -- Beth.

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: Well, Nancy, I would imagine that it means that they`ve gathered new evidence to warrant this re-arrest of the Kalpoe brothers. And there`s no way you`re going to convince me that Freddy`s arrest is a coincidence. You know, I`ve seen his name surface throughout my documentation that I`ve been keeping since as early as June 15th ....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.htm
_______


Serious/Strong Suspicions?

Arlene Ellis-Schipper - Aruban Attorney
Nancy Grace - July 20, 2005
 
ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: There is no grand jury in Aruba. It`s a different system.  You are arrested based on suspicion, on strong suspicion.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/14/ng.01.html


Noraina Pietersz - Aruban Attorney
Associated Press- June 9, 2005

Under Aruban law, only serious suspicion from investigators — not solid evidence — is needed for a judge to rule that suspects can be held, Pietersz said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8079019/

[crazybabyborg]

Maybe today will be the day........... PLEASE!!!

Lisa, thanks for your take on the 3 muskateers. I finally get it! I can't help but wonder if Joran did.

[Tamikosmom]

Titch - I agree with your point, but here's my hang up.

According to Kyle and to the pictures we saw - the fabric recovered looked nothing like a "blouse" of any sort, IMO.  It looked like denim.  Like a skirt.

So for me the question is - what the he!! did Aruba send to the FBI to test anyway?  And where did it come from?

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kermit

[BUCKSHOT]

I have a question that hopefully someone may be able to answer...

I've been going over the dive search info from the Persistance. Well regarding the crab trap found & it's contents... Remember the blouse and/or other fabric that was tested by Aruban authorities as well as FBI? Remember the FBI determined it wasn;t a match to Natalee's blouse? Well, how do they really know?

Here's why I'm asking:
This is something that's bothered me for a long time. When clothes are purchased in a store and have a certain label on them, that label (tag) shows the country it was made in. It also shows the fabric content (100% Cotton, etc). Well what about if the blouse was mass marketed? If it were, then the label could read multiple countries of manufacture. Not only that, just using cotton as an example, it could state 100% cotton as the fabric and show the same design but not actually be the same "make-up" of that fabric even though it would still be 100% cotton.

Get this, which is a perfect example of what I'm stating here: My sons love Abercrombie & Fitch as well as Hollister. These are very popular name brand stores. They import from multiple countries of manufacture. I'm looking at 2 identical shirts from Abercrombie that are yellow in colorwith royal blue lettering on them, wrestling on the back. I bought one for my 16 y/o but had to go back a week later for my 14 y/o bc they both are into wrestling in hs. They are completely identical. Both state 100% cotton. Fabric appears identical, design, etc, both from Abercrombie. Well guess what: one of the shirts was made in Vietnam and the other one was made in China...not only that but they "feel" different. They might both be 100% cotton but the fabric contect or the way it was prepared is completely different. Even if it came from a different bolt the fabric fibers could be different.

So in closing, how does the FBI really know the blouse tested didn;t actually belong to Natalee. Wasn't it stated no dna was found? Or am I missing something?

Titch,

This was answered (what seems like) years ago.

The answer to your question:
The same careful handling of this fabric was similarly employed with the handling of the blood in Deepak's car.
Aruba held the evidence and was delivered by the EasterBunny.

BUCKSHOT

[Tamikosmom]

The Catalyst!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kermit

[crazybabyborg]

Dr. Baden just said that the "long shot" that the jaw bone is Natalee's has now become the "short shot". Fox was doing a spot on the bone and announced that the bone had been determined to be that of a young female woman. Dr. Baden said testing should take no longer than "a week or two".

[crazybabyborg]

They also pointed out that the likelihood the jaw is Natalee's should be viewed in conjunction with the number of young females that have gone missing on Aruba, and Dr. Baden pointed out that Aruba is a small place. He said it might be possible to determine a date rape drug from the tooth.


I'm just recounting what was said. It's easy to make a comment on how many young women have gone missing there, and I wish everybody would stop publically in the media discussing any evidenciary value the jaw may have. I want them to have no qualms about identifying the jaw accurately and releasing it to Beth if it's Natalee's.

[akmom]

  I said it yesterday, I believe like so many of you.  This is just too coincidental.  I believe this was planned, I believe this was planted, I believe this is Natalee.....God bless the Holloways....... and God &*()(&(& the Arubans.  Justice for Natalee

[FloridaKatz]

Thank you so much Tylergal & AZsunny. I must have been confused on matters handled at The Hague. You see, I was thinking along these lines... Since the USA has an extradition treaty with Peru, then we could extradite him as the crime involving extortion occurred first...however the matter would be heard in The Hague. Since The Hague is in The Netherlands, I was thinking they could end up keeping him bc the crime against Natalee happened in Aruba, and Aruba is part of The Netherlands. I remember there was another young woman that had gone missing years ago, before Natalee went missing. For some reason I thought there was implication of Urine. I must be really confused. I sure hope he NEVER leaves Castro Castro and dies in Peru. But will that really happen? He's such a damn schemer. I forget, what is the duration of time he may spend in prison if convicted on Stephany's murder? Is it death or life unlimited, or is there a limitation like in Aruba where life cannot exceed more than 20 years? If he ends up being extradited here, could he serve a sentence here then be extradited back to Peru to serve a subsequent sentence, therefore he may never even get out of the prison system? Or even visa versa - Peru then Here in the USA?

Thanks so much for your help and knowledge.

Titch
[/quote]
I seem to recall hearing that it's 30 yrs. in Castro Castro if he is convicted of Stephanie's murder.  I don't believe they have a DP sentence there.

[crazybabyborg]

MORE ON FOX COMING UP!

[crazybabyborg]

They said DNA testing was being performed right now and they'd have more on that coming up.

*Warning: Fox is awful about teasers like this. Sometimes it's a while before they get back to something "coming up."

[San]

SORRY ABOUT THAT FALSE ALARM.

[San]

I thought I saw Natalee's name and I was like OMG.  Then I looked again and it wasn't there.