Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #851 11/16/10 - 11/20/10

[IBE]

Maybe they are going to break the information to us gradually to try to prevent a media frenzy.  Good luck with that.  Too many people care too much for this to not be big news.

First it's a jawbone, then white small female, then officially small female, etc. right up until they confirm that it is Natalee.  I think this could have already been pretty well eliminated by the one tooth if it were not her.  If the tooth is too large or too small, would eliminate her so apparently it is close enough that it could in fact be her.

I have always wondered if Natalee wasn't found almost immediately from the charges brought and van der Straaten's statement of knowing she was deceased for a fact. 

So I will make the suggestion only as a possibility to be considered that Natalee's remains have been under the control of the Aruban government all along. 

Well, even if she  is recovered and this is her, there are so many things we will never know for a fact, only what we can surmise from the actions of those in charge of all of this.

So I will make the suggestion only as a possibility to be considered that Natalee's remains have been under the control of the Aruban government all along.    Yes!

I agree! Another thing though, if not this, then the only way to not have a body is cremation.

[IBE]

Help... I am only on page 19 reading backwards and on dial up no less. Was there a map posted of the island and where the bone was found?

[Nut44x4]

I understand wanting Natalee's dental records, but if they got right on it, I would think the bone DNA would settle the identification pretty quickly. I can't help second guessing everything.......... I just do not trust them, and I think it's getting time the identification should be made!

In the States, dental records are usually checked first and the results are usually known very quickly. If that isn't possible, then it turns to DNA, which here...can (not always) take a very long time. Seems like their process is assbackwards.....

[Nut44x4]

I'm with texasmom.

Joran needs to die the death of a mad dog, in Peru... being torn apart limb from limb, while three Peruvian cons shove a 3 Musketeers bar up his butt.

Make it a king size! It's good to be the king.

That would have to be a frozen 3 Musketeers --  otherwise it wouldn't go in.

[crazybabyborg]

I understand wanting Natalee's dental records, but if they got right on it, I would think the bone DNA would settle the identification pretty quickly. I can't help second guessing everything.......... I just do not trust them, and I think it's getting time the identification should be made!

In the States, dental records are usually checked first and the results are usually known very quickly. If that isn't possible, then it turns to DNA, which here...can (not always) take a very long time. Seems like their process is assbackwards.....

I'm so surprised!     

[crazybabyborg]

I'm with texasmom.

Joran needs to die the death of a mad dog, in Peru... being torn apart limb from limb, while three Peruvian cons shove a 3 Musketeers bar up his butt.

Make it a king size! It's good to be the king.

That would have to be a frozen 3 Musketeers --  otherwise it wouldn't go in.

I dunno.......... he's been in there a while........  just sayin'............

[Nut44x4]

IBE >>>

[Mary Ann]

I am kinda stuck on the candy bar. If I were a Mom.....that candy bar would have poisoned!!! Considering what he did to Beth's baby girl, did he eat it?
Wish the DNA would come back as quickly as the mattress results showing dogs blood.....I never bought that one.

[Nut44x4]

I am no fan of Radar online.....but there are quite a few photos here

http://www.radaronline.com/photos/image/100645/2010/11/photos-natalee-holloway

[texasmom]

http://www.24ora.com/policial-mainmenu-8/24439-otro-polis-suspendi-awe-pa-sospecho-den-caso-alex-mathew.html

snipped

Scirbi pa James Bond 007, November 18, 2010   

Why is it that the media never put pictures of a Policemen/women when he/she does anything wrong?The media put pictures of everyone else toch,so why not include the police?Are above the MEDIA LAW?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They have a point, it's been done before; but it's usually not.

[texasmom]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/8261023/__Gevonden_kaak_is_van_jonge_vrouw__.html?p=17,1

Google translation:

[MisGivings]

FBI: Aruba studying missing teen's dental records


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cb_aruba_missing_teen

[can]

texasmom, klaasend, Chata, Magnolia ...good to see you all. 

Will the bone being Natalee solve the case? They have to tie it to Joran or Joran and the Kalpoe boys and I can't see how that will happen. Any ideas?

It might not solve the case, but Aruba always said that they had no proof that Natalee
was dead.  If it is her jaw bone, I think that would pretty much prove that she is dead.

I wonder if they have police out there searching the area where the jaw bone was found,
looking for any other bones.  That would seem like a logical move.

I agree Magnolia.  Our logical is not Aruba's logical!   

It's a human bone and the area should have been roped off so that the curious wouldn't be mucking around in that area.

[trimmonthelake]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/19/earlyshow/main7070092.shtml
NEW YORK, Nov. 19, 2010
Expert: DNA Can Link Jaw Bone to Holloway
Dutch Cops Study Teen's Dental Records after Bone Is Found in Aruba; Forensic Expert Tells "Early Show" DNA Likely Intact
(CBS/AP)  Forensic experts in the Netherlands are analyzing evidence that some believe might be the missing link into the whereabouts of Natalee Holloway, the American teenager who disappeared five years ago while on vacation in Aruba.

Five years after Holloway vanished, investigators are chasing their most promising lead - a lower jaw bone with a partially intact molar discovered on a beach in Aruba last week. Dutch officials are testing to see if the remains belong to the missing teen, reports CBS News correspondent Kelly Cobiella. Dutch officials are asking Holloway's family for copies of her dental records.

Holloway disappeared during a senior class trip in 2005. She was last seen with Joran van der Sloot, who was arrested twice in connection with her disappearance, but never charged. Van der Sloot is currently awaiting trial in a Peruvian prison for the murder of 21-year-old Stefany Flores.

Van der Sloot initially denied committing any crime. Then, in 2008, he confessed to killing her in a TV interview. But he later recanted, calling himself a pathological liar.

The teenager's father, Dave Holloway, said Thursday that he had provided the dental records to authorities but added that he had received no new official information on the investigation on the Dutch island in the Caribbean.
"The authorities haven't confirmed anything with me," he told the Associated Press. "It's pretty much total silence."

A forensic scientist in Aruba, however, has said that the bone is from a human female, Dave Holloway told the AP.

And that's a positive development for the investigation, said Dr. Larry Kobilinsky, a forensic pathologist and expert in DNA analysis who spoke to CBS' "The Early Show" Friday.

"DNA can be extracted both from bone and from teeth," Kobilinsky said "And that is good news because I don't think, from dental records alone, they will be able to identify the source of that fragment. I think the DNA will definitively tell us if it is her or not."

However, Aruba's dry, windy climate is "not a friendly environment" for the bone or other sources of DNA evidence Kobilinsky said. Still, because DNA is present in the pulp cavity in the center of the molar, it will likely be preserved there.

"I think the issue of a bone fragment is very important," Kobilinsky said. "How did it become a fragment? Was there some kind of mechanical trauma? And what does it mean? Can we learn anything from the fragment, especially the edges? Are there tool marks? Is there any information that could help us determine the cause of death?"

[klaasend]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0

J says to the brothers: If they find the girl, then they will see the shit.

[Lisa in MD]

Hi,  Klass' post was most interesting IMO:


Posted on the front page of SM by the gal who claims to have been with the tourists that found it:

kkthy
2010/11/18 at 5:19 am

We could kick ourselves for not taking a photo of the jaw bone.  It was found at that edge of the water where waves could have brought it up on shore, near where a jetty of rocks go out to protect the beach area. The jetty has been damaged due to the waves from storm Tomas and the waves were still large when we arrived last week. The waves damaged many resort shores and also brought in LOTS of debris and shells. The waves eroded beach fronts everywhere so also uncovered debris. The waves were relentless! Very unusual for Aruba. By midweek the waves stopped churning up the sand and the water began to clear. Usually the water is very clear and you can see the ocean bottom when you go in for a swim. My friend found it on Friday… our last day of vacation.

If her body became wedged in or caught on the rocks of the jetty, I could see a major storm releasing them.  Having lived on the Oregon Coast for years, we had a boy washed off a basalt protrusion into the ocean.  The Fire Chief told us later they had determined his body caught caught on those rocks way under the water and as it decomposed, a big storm had released it.  The body made it's way down to a beach past Cape Foulweather where his bones were found about 2 years later.  It could be something like that with Natalee as from the way he talked about it, this is quite common,

It was so sad.  His mother was devastated beyond belief.  She continually walked the beaches in the area looking for his body to wash up.   

I don’t want to sound stupid here so bear with me and just entertain the idea.  Could he have buried her IN the jetty?  Say there was a soft spot where the rocks could have been removed and replaced?  I’m wondering for a few reasons.
 
1) Most Jetties have a danger sign posted to keep off and people don’t usually walk or swim by the jetties because everyone knows that’s dangerous. In some places in the US it’s a fineable offense to even walk on the jetty.
 
2) Boats don’t go near the jetties so any search by boat would not prove fruitful.

3) Land and sea searches my not include the jetties thinking it impossible to bury a body there but someone who grew up on the island and explored the jetties may know of a hole or a soft spot inside the jetty.  Natalee was a small young lady.

4) From the air all they would see is rocks.

5) Wouldn’t the smell of sea spray on the rocks and the gunk that gets stuck between the jetty rocks throw off any scent of the cadaver dogs if a search was held there?

6) Didn’t the first psychic tell Beth that Natalee was overlooking or by the water?

7) Isn’t it the place that is almost always in plain sight that these things are discovered?  Someplace the corrupt Aruban Officials could easily watch on a regular basis without calling attention as to why? Surely if someone was pulling up rocks from the jetty someone would be alerted.

All of Joran’s lies and maps and all of the normal search areas( Joran’s house, the light house, the bird sanctuary, the dump, the dam, 2 miles out in the ocean and the house that he lead JQK to )all lead away from the jetty.

Then there is this mandible that washes up after a major storm which could have disturbed the jetty – it had to come from somewhere!  Where is the rest?

[can]

...and the brother said to Joran...your own father! . . .

[SunnyinTX]

texasmom, klaasend, Chata, Magnolia ...good to see you all. 

Will the bone being Natalee solve the case? They have to tie it to Joran or Joran and the Kalpoe boys and I can't see how that will happen. Any ideas?

It might not solve the case, but Aruba always said that they had no proof that Natalee
was dead.  If it is her jaw bone, I think that would pretty much prove that she is dead.

I wonder if they have police out there searching the area where the jaw bone was found,
looking for any other bones.  That would seem like a logical move.

I agree Magnolia.  Our logical is not Aruba's logical!   

It's a human bone and the area should have been roped off so that the curious wouldn't be mucking around in that area.

Hi Monks...my guess would be because they knew they only planted the jaw bone, so there was no need to look for other bones. JMO 

[can]

texasmom, klaasend, Chata, Magnolia ...good to see you all. 

Will the bone being Natalee solve the case? They have to tie it to Joran or Joran and the Kalpoe boys and I can't see how that will happen. Any ideas?

It might not solve the case, but Aruba always said that they had no proof that Natalee
was dead.  If it is her jaw bone, I think that would pretty much prove that she is dead.

I wonder if they have police out there searching the area where the jaw bone was found,
looking for any other bones.  That would seem like a logical move.

I agree Magnolia.  Our logical is not Aruba's logical!   

It's a human bone and the area should have been roped off so that the curious wouldn't be mucking around in that area.

Hi Monks...my guess would be because they knew they only planted the jaw bone, so there was no need to look for other bones. JMO 

a good guess Sunny.

[klaasend]

Aerial view of the area where the jawbone was found.  I don't know exact but this would be the general vicinity: