Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #851 11/16/10 - 11/20/10

[klaasend]

"I'm happy that it's human. And the initial finding is that it's from a young woman, so maybe we will be able to solve this case. I hope so. But we will wait to see what the findings are," Aruban prosecutor Peter Blanken told CNN.

[KYcat]

Aruban prosecutor's office backs off bone claims

ARUBA (NBC/WSFA) - First a definite, then a "no comment" from the Aruban prosecutor's office after announcing what could be a major breakthrough in the Natalee Holloway case.

A prosecutor in Aruba said initial examinations of a piece of bone found on a beach earlier in the week belong to a young female. Now, the prosecutor's office says it won't comment on the reports that quoted them as saying the bone was definitively from a human female - not even to say if the report was incorrectly stated.

The prosecutor's office would only say it was still awaiting forensic results on whether or not the bone was human or animal.

Authorities are now trying to determine if the bone belongs to Holloway, who went missing on a high school trip in Aruba in 2005.

The bone, found November 12 on a beach in the Caribbean island of Aruba, was turned in to a hotel nearby, according to reports. The bone, said to be part of a lower jawbone, included an intact molar.

DNA testing on the bone is expected to determine whether or not the bone belongs to Holloway.

HOLLOWAY'S FATHER

Holloway father, Dave, says authorities have requested her dental records. Dave Holloway said Thursday that he is in the process of providing the records and added that he has received no new official information on the case.

Ann Angela, a spokeswoman for the Aruba prosecutor's office, says a tourist found the bone last Friday and brought it to the front desk of the Phoenix Hotel.

It was then sent to the Netherlands for analysis, though there has been no announcement on whether the bone is human.

http://www.myfoxal.com/Global/story.asp?S=13529572

Well, this is typical Aruban style.  Back-pedaling as usual.  They won't comment or confirm that it is a human bone.  Where do they get these people>?  Seriously, we pretty much know it can't be a shark, dog, pony, lion, tiger, so on and so forth.  Whoops, it must be a donkey.

They totally disgust me.  I swear I don't know how Beth and Dave have kept it together all these years.  Just makes you want to Nuke them!

 

[jen3560]

Hey Klaas, not sure this has come up in all of the discussion but what are your thoughts and every one's regarding a certain topic of an ocean search and why only mapping was done on a limited budget and not the actually searching of targeted spots?

I knew when the Persistence never searched targeted areas, this would come back.

Hi Red,

Did you read in the last couple of days that Silvetti's revenue nearly doubled the year he came back from Aruba? 

And do you remember when he solicited AHATA for "donations" for the "search"?

Coinky dink?  Not.

[klaasend]

Hello Monkeys, I feel like I've come home.  I haven't posted but I have tried to read everyday in Natalee's thread and others also.  I pray that Natalee has been found.  I think that Beth and Dave need this so badly.  The ups and downs must be so hard for them.  Seeing Beth cry after she met with Joran broke my heart. 

I am confused about the FBI having the full video from the cage recovery.  Who gave it to them -  Aruba LE?  I do not trust Aruba in anyway whatsoever. That video could be doctored.  I am fuzzy on the ocean search so I may get my details wrong.  Did they bring up the plastic bags with the contents of the cage before or after that Dutch boat docked there and nobody knew what they were doing there?  I went to archives to try and find the ocean search and I couldn't.  Could someone tell me where the thread is regarding the ocean search. 

I thought it was really interesting that when I went to the LCD Archive there was me and 30 guests viewing it.  WOW, wonder who those guests are..  lol

I hope this bone really did wash ashore and has not been stashed in LE's secret stash place.  I just can't trust anything they do. 

So good to see everyone.

  

Not sure who has the entire video but ALE are the ones that gathered the evidence out of the cage and Tim Miller was not around at that time.  So nobody knows for sure what if anything was done with that actual evidence.

[KYcat]

They may partcially come clean and borrow one of Joran's confessions.  They will never admit that Joran murdered Natalee and he will never be prosecuted for anything in Aruba.

However ... Aruba may go through the motions of charging Joran with the murder of Natalee Holloway in its quest to get him back on Aruban soil.  When all is said and done ... Joran may be convicted of an illegal disposal of a body as there will be no proof that he harmed Natalee.

IMO

Janet

Well, Aruba may only be able to charge him with illegal disposal of a body, BUT the good ole' USA will charge his arse with wire fraud and throw him in prison until he meets his untimely death. OR Peru will fry his arse for murder (I hope).

 

[Magnolia]

Hello Monkeys, I feel like I've come home.  I haven't posted but I have tried to read everyday in Natalee's thread and others also.  I pray that Natalee has been found.  I think that Beth and Dave need this so badly.  The ups and downs must be so hard for them.  Seeing Beth cry after she met with Joran broke my heart. 

I am confused about the FBI having the full video from the cage recovery.  Who gave it to them -  Aruba LE?  I do not trust Aruba in anyway whatsoever. That video could be doctored.  I am fuzzy on the ocean search so I may get my details wrong.  Did they bring up the plastic bags with the contents of the cage before or after that Dutch boat docked there and nobody knew what they were doing there?  I went to archives to try and find the ocean search and I couldn't.  Could someone tell me where the thread is regarding the ocean search. 

I thought it was really interesting that when I went to the LCD Archive there was me and 30 guests viewing it.  WOW, wonder who those guests are..  lol

I hope this bone really did wash ashore and has not been stashed in LE's secret stash place.  I just can't trust anything they do. 

So good to see everyone.

  

It is good to see you back Kycat.

I will try to answrer some of your questions.

We aren't sure that the FBI has ROV footage.  Kyle said that he gave it to them, but you
know how that goes.  He isn't always truthful.
We do know that Kermit and Jen and Wingnut, I believe, sent the still photos to the FBI
and JQK and Beth.
The Aruban divers bagged and took the bones and evidence that were seen in the trap.
We have no idea what they did with what we can plainly see in the bags.
Blonde made a lovely thread that you can find on the index page of the Natalee forum.

I mean no offense to anyone.

[jen3560]

Hello Monkeys, I feel like I've come home.  I haven't posted but I have tried to read everyday in Natalee's thread and others also.  I pray that Natalee has been found.  I think that Beth and Dave need this so badly.  The ups and downs must be so hard for them.  Seeing Beth cry after she met with Joran broke my heart. 

I am confused about the FBI having the full video from the cage recovery.  Who gave it to them -  Aruba LE?  I do not trust Aruba in anyway whatsoever. That video could be doctored.  I am fuzzy on the ocean search so I may get my details wrong.  Did they bring up the plastic bags with the contents of the cage before or after that Dutch boat docked there and nobody knew what they were doing there?  I went to archives to try and find the ocean search and I couldn't.  Could someone tell me where the thread is regarding the ocean search. 

I thought it was really interesting that when I went to the LCD Archive there was me and 30 guests viewing it.  WOW, wonder who those guests are..  lol

I hope this bone really did wash ashore and has not been stashed in LE's secret stash place.  I just can't trust anything they do. 

So good to see everyone.

  

Not sure who has the entire video but ALE are the ones that gathered the evidence out of the cage and Tim Miller was not around at that time.  So nobody knows for sure what if anything was done with that actual evidence.

The last we knew, Kyle Kingman had the video, and Louis Shaeffer owned the rights to it.  Don't know if the FBI ever acquired it from Kyle after they were sent the stills from the video and Kyle's words describing what they found.

[KYcat]

Hello Monkeys, I feel like I've come home.  I haven't posted but I have tried to read everyday in Natalee's thread and others also.  I pray that Natalee has been found.  I think that Beth and Dave need this so badly.  The ups and downs must be so hard for them.  Seeing Beth cry after she met with Joran broke my heart. 

I am confused about the FBI having the full video from the cage recovery.  Who gave it to them -  Aruba LE?  I do not trust Aruba in anyway whatsoever. That video could be doctored.  I am fuzzy on the ocean search so I may get my details wrong.  Did they bring up the plastic bags with the contents of the cage before or after that Dutch boat docked there and nobody knew what they were doing there?  I went to archives to try and find the ocean search and I couldn't.  Could someone tell me where the thread is regarding the ocean search. 

I thought it was really interesting that when I went to the LCD Archive there was me and 30 guests viewing it.  WOW, wonder who those guests are..  lol

I hope this bone really did wash ashore and has not been stashed in LE's secret stash place.  I just can't trust anything they do. 

So good to see everyone.

  

Not sure who has the entire video but ALE are the ones that gathered the evidence out of the cage and Tim Miller was not around at that time.  So nobody knows for sure what if anything was done with that actual evidence.

Hi Klass, so good to see you and everyone.  That is exactly what I thought.  We don't know what the evidence was and where the evidence is. 

[jen3560]

Hello Monkeys, I feel like I've come home.  I haven't posted but I have tried to read everyday in Natalee's thread and others also.  I pray that Natalee has been found.  I think that Beth and Dave need this so badly.  The ups and downs must be so hard for them.  Seeing Beth cry after she met with Joran broke my heart. 

I am confused about the FBI having the full video from the cage recovery.  Who gave it to them -  Aruba LE?  I do not trust Aruba in anyway whatsoever. That video could be doctored.  I am fuzzy on the ocean search so I may get my details wrong.  Did they bring up the plastic bags with the contents of the cage before or after that Dutch boat docked there and nobody knew what they were doing there?   I went to archives to try and find the ocean search and I couldn't.  Could someone tell me where the thread is regarding the ocean search. 

I thought it was really interesting that when I went to the LCD Archive there was me and 30 guests viewing it.  WOW, wonder who those guests are..  lol

I hope this bone really did wash ashore and has not been stashed in LE's secret stash place.  I just can't trust anything they do. 

So good to see everyone.

  

Not sure who has the entire video but ALE are the ones that gathered the evidence out of the cage and Tim Miller was not around at that time.  So nobody knows for sure what if anything was done with that actual evidence.

Before.  Approx 1 week before, IIRC.  Kyle was on "shore leave" at that time, if memory serves.  He observed that Dutch boat there two days in a row, from shore.

[wreck]

For those of you that hold out hope that Aruba is going to ever prosecute ANYONE - forget it. All we can hope for is the return of Natalee. Justice will be served -- just not in Aruba. Joran will die in Peru. There won't be a 2nd option (and if there was, it would be in the USA).

[klaasend]

O/T Wreck - nice to see you in a respectable hat and not in that BAND outfit 

[Scandi]

Hi,  Klass' post was most interesting IMO:


Posted on the front page of SM by the gal who claims to have been with the tourists that found it:

kkthy
2010/11/18 at 5:19 am

We could kick ourselves for not taking a photo of the jaw bone.  It was found at that edge of the water where waves could have brought it up on shore, near where a jetty of rocks go out to protect the beach area. The jetty has been damaged due to the waves from storm Tomas and the waves were still large when we arrived last week. The waves damaged many resort shores and also brought in LOTS of debris and shells. The waves eroded beach fronts everywhere so also uncovered debris. The waves were relentless! Very unusual for Aruba. By midweek the waves stopped churning up the sand and the water began to clear. Usually the water is very clear and you can see the ocean bottom when you go in for a swim. My friend found it on Friday… our last day of vacation.

If her body became wedged in or caught on the rocks of the jetty, I could see a major storm releasing them.  Having lived on the Oregon Coast for years, we had a boy washed off a basalt protrusion into the ocean.  The Fire Chief told us later they had determined his body caught caught on those rocks way under the water and as it decomposed, a big storm had released it.  The body made it's way down to a beach past Cape Foulweather where his bones were found about 2 years later.  It could be something like that with Natalee as from the way he talked about it, this is quite common,

It was so sad.  His mother was devastated beyond belief.  She continually walked the beaches in the area looking for his body to wash up.   

[klaasend]

Hi,  Klass' post was most interesting IMO:


Posted on the front page of SM by the gal who claims to have been with the tourists that found it:

kkthy
2010/11/18 at 5:19 am

We could kick ourselves for not taking a photo of the jaw bone.  It was found at that edge of the water where waves could have brought it up on shore, near where a jetty of rocks go out to protect the beach area. The jetty has been damaged due to the waves from storm Tomas and the waves were still large when we arrived last week. The waves damaged many resort shores and also brought in LOTS of debris and shells. The waves eroded beach fronts everywhere so also uncovered debris. The waves were relentless! Very unusual for Aruba. By midweek the waves stopped churning up the sand and the water began to clear. Usually the water is very clear and you can see the ocean bottom when you go in for a swim. My friend found it on Friday… our last day of vacation.

If her body became wedged in or caught on the rocks of the jetty, I could see a major storm releasing them.  Having lived on the Oregon Coast for years, we had a boy washed off a basalt protrusion into the ocean.  The Fire Chief told us later they had determined his body caught caught on those rocks way under the water and as it decomposed, a big storm had released it.  The body made it's way down to a beach past Cape Foulweather where his bones were found about 2 years later.  It could be something like that with Natalee as from the way he talked about it, this is quite common,

It was so sad.  His mother was devastated beyond belief.  She continually walked the beaches in the area looking for his body to wash up.   

Hi Scandi - yeah I posted that in the forum already.  She has made a few posts now on the front page.  Yes, it could have gotten wedged then dislodged with the rough tide.

[wreck]

O/T Wreck - nice to see you in a respectable hat and not in that BAND outfit 

 

[Magnolia]

O/T Wreck - nice to see you in a respectable hat and not in that BAND outfit 

 

 

[klaasend]

 

[Scandi]

Reading this in a link on the previous page:  "Paul Daymond, an FBI spokesman in Birmingham, Alabama, said the agency sent some records electronically Wednesday and shipped the remaining dental impressions. and then from another link following that one we read "DNA testing on the bone is expected to determine whether or not the bone belongs to Holloway.

What I don't understand is if DNA is expected to determine who it came from why would dental impressions be sent as well?  Back-up?  I don't know if there'd be a problem with an attached molar not having enough material to testfor DNA or not, but would think if it were attached to the bone the material would still be inside the tooth, right?

Tomorrow they will have had the jaw bone a week.  Do you think they flew it to the Netherlands the next day?  How quickly can a big lab get the DNA results back.  I know back-up work in a lab is what usually takes so much time.

Sorry if these questions have been answered as I've missed a few pages of posts.  xox

[klaasend]

Reading this in a link on the previous page:  "Paul Daymond, an FBI spokesman in Birmingham, Alabama, said the agency sent some records electronically Wednesday and shipped the remaining dental impressions. and then from another link following that one we read "DNA testing on the bone is expected to determine whether or not the bone belongs to Holloway.

What I don't understand is if DNA is expected to determine who it came from why would dental impressions be sent as well?  Back-up?  I don't know if there'd be a problem with an attached molar not having enough material to testfor DNA or not, but would think if it were attached to the bone the material would still be inside the tooth, right?

Tomorrow they will have had the jaw bone a week.  Do you think they flew it to the Netherlands the next day?  How quickly can a big lab get the DNA results back.  I know back-up work in a lab is what usually takes so much time.

Sorry if these questions have been answered as I've missed a few pages of posts.  xox

If by chance they couldn't get enough tissue for a DNA match. Plus I believe dental records would be quicker.

[Scandi]

Reading this in a link on the previous page:  "Paul Daymond, an FBI spokesman in Birmingham, Alabama, said the agency sent some records electronically Wednesday and shipped the remaining dental impressions. and then from another link following that one we read "DNA testing on the bone is expected to determine whether or not the bone belongs to Holloway.

What I don't understand is if DNA is expected to determine who it came from why would dental impressions be sent as well?  Back-up?  I don't know if there'd be a problem with an attached molar not having enough material to testfor DNA or not, but would think if it were attached to the bone the material would still be inside the tooth, right?

Tomorrow they will have had the jaw bone a week.  Do you think they flew it to the Netherlands the next day?  How quickly can a big lab get the DNA results back.  I know back-up work in a lab is what usually takes so much time.

Sorry if these questions have been answered as I've missed a few pages of posts.  xox

If by chance they couldn't get enough tissue for a DNA match. Plus I believe dental records would be quicker.

Ahhh, Thanks Klaas ;}

[wreck]

Reading this in a link on the previous page:  "Paul Daymond, an FBI spokesman in Birmingham, Alabama, said the agency sent some records electronically Wednesday and shipped the remaining dental impressions. and then from another link following that one we read "DNA testing on the bone is expected to determine whether or not the bone belongs to Holloway.

What I don't understand is if DNA is expected to determine who it came from why would dental impressions be sent as well?  Back-up?  I don't know if there'd be a problem with an attached molar not having enough material to testfor DNA or not, but would think if it were attached to the bone the material would still be inside the tooth, right?

Tomorrow they will have had the jaw bone a week.  Do you think they flew it to the Netherlands the next day?  How quickly can a big lab get the DNA results back.  I know back-up work in a lab is what usually takes so much time.

Sorry if these questions have been answered as I've missed a few pages of posts.  xox

If by chance they couldn't get enough tissue for a DNA match. Plus I believe dental records would be quicker.

In this day and and age, I can't believe DNA testing takes a few weeks. For non-urgent cases, there may be a back-log -- but, if someone really NEEDS quick answer, I bet the test takes a few hours. This is a bunch of bull.