Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #851 11/16/10 - 11/20/10

[Rob]

Evening ALL..

Just sitting here and getting to read all of FloridaKatz's Aruban endeavors. Nice to see a new poster here to the monkey board.

Just wondering - you have very nice intimate knowledge of all things Slot and Aruba. Surely with all this knowledge and understanding, you probably realize that there is a voluntary boycott of Aruba. I was wondering how you ended up there. And wondering how it was you that found this remarkable discovery. Really hate to call out a new poster, but I must admit I am curious.

I wasn't poking around on the site meter, but I'm sure by now someone probably has, and after everything that has occurred in this case - I must admit I'm skeptical of all these wonderful and fantastical works.

Hi Rob;

I understand your curiosity.  If you did a search on my profile, you would see that I've been a monkey since January of last year.  I was a long time lurker before that.  My husband and I have been involved in SAR for nearly 20 years.  If you look at my posts from earlier this week, you will see where I explained that my husband was on his 2 week break from his deployment in Afghanistan, and he wanted to spend a week of that time in Aruba, doing research on Natalee's disappearance.  Yes I realize there is Aruba boycott.  We did not go to fancy restaurants or go souvenier shopping.  We spent our days either riding to the different areas in a rented jeep, or walking the areas by foot.  We followed the case from day one, which is why I'm so familiar with it.  Yes we were on the island the day the  jawbone was found.  No we weren't the ones that found it. 

If you check my posts from last year, my husband and I also did SAR for Caylee Anthony when she went missing.  We live in the Central Florida area, so when we can, and it's close enough for us to travel, we try to help.  I might also mention that I was born and raised in Alabama, not far from where Natalee lived. 

I hope this explains things for you.

Hi, just checked your posts. And I see that you have been here since Caylee. Nice.

You would naturally wonder and ask the same questions I assume. After-all, this case has had all kinds show up years later with all kinds of stories.

It's a voluntary boycott and it's a personal choice. I personally wouldn't go back - but I can't suggest that for anyone else, just recommend it.

I'm not sure if this is Natalee, I guess we'll see. I sure hope it is, but since we're on the subject - there is another missing girl from around 2000 - 2001 that is from Holland. I was never able to get her name, but as I understand it and posted about before the crash - she was around Natalee's age. I know they are saying that they know of no other missing girl, but there is that girl and the missing Aruban woman who Renfro said committed suicide and her car was found in the ocean. She was depressed according to Renfro. Personally, I'm not sure how accurate the missing Dutch girl story is - but I did hear it while there years ago.

sorry if I confused you with the person that found this jawbone. 

[Rob]

See you all around - Prayers for Natalee.

 

[antunym]

Thanks FloridaKatz that is a nice job - puts things in prespective.  So there are three Jetty's in that area and the Marriott is way north of them.  That would be just like that lying POS! I think with someone like him saying look here and look there - they need to look at where he is not pointing!

Yes, 3 jettys down near the Divi Phoenix.  I'm puzzled by something Jean Casaras said earlier this evening on HL News.  She had gone out to the Divi beach, and said there were no seashells.  NONE.  So then it's suspicious how a jawbone can just wash up where "it did".  She also mentioned the connector between the marsh and the ocean, where all the conch shells are.  If it had washed in from that area, surely a shell or two would have washed in as well.  I am now convinced that the jawbone was planted.          The question is, by whom ?  Anita ?  The police ?  Someone else ?

Do we know by which jetty the jaw was found?  If if is the one by where you so the shells, then it could have been washed out of the marsh.    I am leaning toward that rather than it being planted, though with Aruba, all things are possible.  If it were planted, how would they know it could be discovered before it washed back out to sea?  With the heavy continuing rain fall, the marsh would have to drain somewhere.  Just thinking outloud...or with my fingers. 

It would be interesting to know who the supposed persons who found the jaw are.

I would like to know too.  We left the day after it was found, and we didn't hear any "buzz" going on at the airport.  Supposedly the people are from Boston, and they left the same day we did.

They took pictures of all of the spots of shells you would have thought they would have taken pictures of something as important as a human jaw bone

[Lisa in MD]

Someone please refresh my memory about his shoes.  Didn't he say he took them off at the Mariott but I also thought I heard that they found one in his room when they searched the house.  Am I correct on this?  I'm not sure.

What I do know is the night that Beth, Dave and I think Steve Holloway were there at the Van der Sloots house Paulus had to call for Joran to come home and Beth said he showed up not much later and he was dirty.  If he had been down at one of those jetty's he could have gotten home quickly and if he was dirty he may have been looking for the shoe he lost the night before or possibly making sure his hiding place was well covered.

[Magnolia]

Evening ALL..

Just sitting here and getting to read all of FloridaKatz's Aruban endeavors. Nice to see a new poster here to the monkey board.

Just wondering - you have very nice intimate knowledge of all things Slot and Aruba. Surely with all this knowledge and understanding, you probably realize that there is a voluntary boycott of Aruba. I was wondering how you ended up there. And wondering how it was you that found this remarkable discovery. Really hate to call out a new poster, but I must admit I am curious.

I wasn't poking around on the site meter, but I'm sure by now someone probably has, and after everything that has occurred in this case - I must admit I'm skeptical of all these wonderful and fantastical works.

You seem to know all the points of interest (even the McDonald's pick-up point) and show up here at the monkey board with pics but yet no pic of the jaw bone.

I'll understand if you are unable to answer these questions.

 

Good to see you, Rob.
I've been wondering when you would chime in.

[Lisa in MD]

If they pull a shoe out of one of those jetty's along with Natalee - Game Over!

[FloridaKatz]

Evening ALL..

Just sitting here and getting to read all of FloridaKatz's Aruban endeavors. Nice to see a new poster here to the monkey board.

Just wondering - you have very nice intimate knowledge of all things Slot and Aruba. Surely with all this knowledge and understanding, you probably realize that there is a voluntary boycott of Aruba. I was wondering how you ended up there. And wondering how it was you that found this remarkable discovery. Really hate to call out a new poster, but I must admit I am curious.

I wasn't poking around on the site meter, but I'm sure by now someone probably has, and after everything that has occurred in this case - I must admit I'm skeptical of all these wonderful and fantastical works.

Hi Rob;

I understand your curiosity.  If you did a search on my profile, you would see that I've been a monkey since January of last year.  I was a long time lurker before that.  My husband and I have been involved in SAR for nearly 20 years.  If you look at my posts from earlier this week, you will see where I explained that my husband was on his 2 week break from his deployment in Afghanistan, and he wanted to spend a week of that time in Aruba, doing research on Natalee's disappearance.  Yes I realize there is Aruba boycott.  We did not go to fancy restaurants or go souvenier shopping.  We spent our days either riding to the different areas in a rented jeep, or walking the areas by foot.  We followed the case from day one, which is why I'm so familiar with it.  Yes we were on the island the day the  jawbone was found.  No we weren't the ones that found it. 

If you check my posts from last year, my husband and I also did SAR for Caylee Anthony when she went missing.  We live in the Central Florida area, so when we can, and it's close enough for us to travel, we try to help.  I might also mention that I was born and raised in Alabama, not far from where Natalee lived. 

I hope this explains things for you.

Hi, just checked your posts. And I see that you have been here since Caylee. Nice.

You would naturally wonder and ask the same questions I assume. After-all, this case has had all kinds show up years later with all kinds of stories.

It's a voluntary boycott and it's a personal choice. I personally wouldn't go back - but I can't suggest that for anyone else, just recommend it.

I'm not sure if this is Natalee, I guess we'll see. I sure hope it is, but since we're on the subject - there is another missing girl from around 2000 - 2001 that is from Holland. I was never able to get her name, but as I understand it and posted about before the crash - she was around Natalee's age. I know they are saying that they know of no other missing girl, but there is that girl and the missing Aruban woman who Renfro said committed suicide and her car was found in the ocean. She was depressed according to Renfro. Personally, I'm not sure how accurate the missing Dutch girl story is - but I did hear it while there years ago.

sorry if I confused you with the person that found this jawbone. 

No worries Rob - I can understand your skepticism !  I used to post regularly during the Caylee search, and before that I was a regular on Websleuths, but I won't even go there anymore.   I'm thinking that if the jawbone was NOT Natalee's, the authorities in Aruba would be screaming it from the rafters by now.

[crazybabyborg]

What happened after they left C&C's has long since been a topic of discussion. Without a lie detector hooked up to K2 and Joran, I don't know we'll ever know the truth beyond any reasonable doubt. It's possible that Natalee died at Joran's apt (many think so) and the huts were then broken into to get the trap for the body disposal. It's also very possible that Natalee was quickly disposed of by shallow buriel and then later moved. Who knows firsthand for sure? K2, Joran, and Paulus. 3 out of 4 could still tell it, and I'm amazed one hasn't, frankly. Van der Stratten almost suredly knows as well. Others, Freddy comes to mind, probably knows too.

There are too many that know for it to never come out, IMO, but so far, the silence to the truth has been deafening.

[antunym]

Someone please refresh my memory about his shoes.  Didn't he say he took them off at the Mariott but I also thought I heard that they found one in his room when they searched the house.  Am I correct on this?  I'm not sure.

What I do know is the night that Beth, Dave and I think Steve Holloway were there at the Van der Sloots house Paulus had to call for Joran to come home and Beth said he showed up not much later and he was dirty.  If he had been down at one of those jetty's he could have gotten home quickly and if he was dirty he may have been looking for the shoe he lost the night before or possibly making sure his hiding place was well covered.

Or actually moving or getting rid of the body. I think I remember something about the disposal on a later night

[FloridaKatz]

Jean Casaras is in Aruba, why isn't the show spending the hour talking about the Natalee case I wonder.

[San]

What happened after they left C&C's has long since been a topic of discussion. Without a lie detector hooked up to K2 and Joran, I don't know we'll ever know the truth beyond any reasonable doubt. It's possible that Natalee died at Joran's apt (many think so) and the huts were then broken into to get the trap for the body disposal. It's also very possible that Natalee was quickly disposed of by shallow buriel and then later moved. Who knows firsthand for sure? K2, Joran, and Paulus. 3 out of 4 could still tell it, and I'm amazed one hasn't, frankly. Van der Stratten almost suredly knows as well. Others, Freddy comes to mind, probably knows too.

There are too many that know for it to never come out, IMO, but so far, the silence to the truth has been deafening.

I agree.

[antunym]

If they pull a shoe out of one of those jetty's along with Natalee - Game Over!

I'm thinking we will find out that the jaw bone is Natalee's and we will be here for a lot longer wondering where the rest of her is located.    Damn Aruban Aauthorities!!

[jjayinthemorning]

What happened after they left C&C's has long since been a topic of discussion. Without a lie detector hooked up to K2 and Joran, I don't know we'll ever know the truth beyond any reasonable doubt. It's possible that Natalee died at Joran's apt (many think so) and the huts were then broken into to get the trap for the body disposal. It's also very possible that Natalee was quickly disposed of by shallow buriel and then later moved. Who knows firsthand for sure? K2, Joran, and Paulus. 3 out of 4 could still tell it, and I'm amazed one hasn't, frankly. Van der Stratten almost suredly knows as well. Others, Freddy comes to mind, probably knows too.

There are too many that know for it to never come out, IMO, but so far, the silence to the truth has been deafening.

That makes sense. Joran had a busy 3 days and the statements started to come out only after the Americans arrived back in the states and the steps were traced, so that was 2 weeks later when Joran had been so many places to hide things and it was now a labyrinth in his mind and words. Further, he had disposed of the body almost 10 days prior. I think that's the timing.
So the swamp nature bird preserve was Joran's red herring while the body was being eaten by fish in the ocean, that would distract law enforcement for a couple of weeks atleast.

Yes, the silence is broken now.

[crazybabyborg]

Someone please refresh my memory about his shoes.  Didn't he say he took them off at the Mariott but I also thought I heard that they found one in his room when they searched the house.  Am I correct on this?  I'm not sure.

What I do know is the night that Beth, Dave and I think Steve Holloway were there at the Van der Sloots house Paulus had to call for Joran to come home and Beth said he showed up not much later and he was dirty.  If he had been down at one of those jetty's he could have gotten home quickly and if he was dirty he may have been looking for the shoe he lost the night before or possibly making sure his hiding place was well covered.

Joran said he left his shoes at the beach. One shoe was found in the mockery of a search on his apt, but later that fact got muddied and it dropped off the radar screen of LE. Joran lied several times about his shoe size, so you can bet he was worried that his shoe would be found in incriminating circumstances.

When Beth and Jug arrived at the Sloots, Paulus went to get Joran and came back to say he wasn't home. He called Joran and told Jug and Beth that Joran was at a Casino (help somebody....... which one was it?). Anyway, they all left to go to the casino to confront Joran. Once there, Joran wasn't to be found. Paulus called Joran again, and he said he came home. Back they went to the house and there was Joran and Deepak, not dressed for the casino but time had been bought with the running around.

WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON? Who knows for sure? Jug has always regretted not insisting the trunk to Deepak's car be opened right then and there. He thinks Natalee may have been in it.

[antunym]

Jean Casaras is in Aruba, why isn't the show spending the hour talking about the Natalee case I wonder.

I was wondering the same thing

[Lisa in MD]

So he lied about leaving his shoes on the beach at the Marriott.  Then only one shoe turns up in the search of his apt. 

He could have very easily lost that other shoe in the jetty.

The storm could have very easily caused a hydrolic near the jetty to dislodge a rock allowing that mandible out into the ocean to be swept ashore!

[crazybabyborg]

So he lied about leaving his shoes on the beach at the Marriott.  Then only one shoe turns up in the search of his apt. 

He could have very easily lost that other shoe in the jetty.

The storm could have very easily caused a hydrolic near the jetty to dislodge a rock allowing that mandible out into the ocean to be swept ashore!

I feel confident in saying that there is unanimous agreement on this thread that the shoe is significant. Even in an interview, Joran makes a point to draw attention to his shoes. He was demonstrably nervous about it. There was even speculation here  that Joran did leave his shoes at the crime scene and asked Deepak to get them and that Deepak kept one shoe with evidence on it in case Joran tried to point to them as the sole guilty party.

[antunym]

So he lied about leaving his shoes on the beach at the Marriott.  Then only one shoe turns up in the search of his apt. 

He could have very easily lost that other shoe in the jetty.

The storm could have very easily caused a hydrolic near the jetty to dislodge a rock allowing that mandible out into the ocean to be swept ashore!

I feel confident in saying that there is unanimous agreement on this thread that the shoe is significant. Even in an interview, Joran makes a point to draw attention to his shoes. He was demonstrably nervous about it. There was even speculation here  that Joran did leave his shoes at the crime scene and asked Deepak to get them and that Deepak kept one shoe with evidence on it in case Joran tried to point to them as the sole guilty party.

The shoes are a major part for some reason.. Joran even mentioned them in the range rover recording... so there is major significance IMO

[crazybabyborg]

Lisa, I don't know if Joran lied about leaving his shoes at the Marriott. He's told so many lies that it's hard to tell. I do know he did everything he could to cover up something with his shoe, and apparently Van der Stratten agreed it was problematic enough to drop the initial report that only one was found at his apt.

It went from one shoe missing, to two shoes missing. Now think about that one. How the heck would you determine that a pair of shoes weren't there? From there, it just got dropped by LE, and Joran started changing his shoe size in each statement he made to police.

[crazybabyborg]

So he lied about leaving his shoes on the beach at the Marriott.  Then only one shoe turns up in the search of his apt. 

He could have very easily lost that other shoe in the jetty.

The storm could have very easily caused a hydrolic near the jetty to dislodge a rock allowing that mandible out into the ocean to be swept ashore!

I feel confident in saying that there is unanimous agreement on this thread that the shoe is significant. Even in an interview, Joran makes a point to draw attention to his shoes. He was demonstrably nervous about it. There was even speculation here  that Joran did leave his shoes at the crime scene and asked Deepak to get them and that Deepak kept one shoe with evidence on it in case Joran tried to point to them as the sole guilty party.

The shoes are a major part for some reason.. Joran even mentioned them in the range rover recording... so there is major significance IMO

Yes, most definitely.