Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[Puzzler]

Geeze I didn't mean to chase anybody off.  I just think rationally with the information the man is being given by LE right up to this past Friday regarding Terri he has to do what he has to do in regards to Kiara.

What if she is guilty? 

If she's guilty - I hope she's brought to SWIFT justice...her and any little co-conspirators (if there are any).  The sooner...the better, too!

  Ditto on that too....but looks like this case is going to be tied up for a long time with no evidence, I pray they have something hard and fast, but feel if they did, she'd have been arrested.

Yes, it's really bothersome that the GJ has had hundreds of people before them and still no indictment. 

[islandmonkey]

Geeze I didn't mean to chase anybody off.  I just think rationally with the information the man is being given by LE right up to this past Friday regarding Terri he has to do what he has to do in regards to Kiara.

What if she is guilty? 

If she's guilty - I hope she's brought to SWIFT justice...her and any little co-conspirators (if there are any).  The sooner...the better, too!

  Ditto on that too....but looks like this case is going to be tied up for a long time with no evidence, I pray they have something hard and fast, but feel if they did, she'd have been arrested.

Yes, it's really bothersome that the GJ has had hundreds of people before them and still no indictment. 

  Exactly, you can indict a ham sandwich and I am not certain but an indictment doesn't necessarily mean she would be charged immediately or does it?? Any legal eagles in here tonight? Sorry, hopping cages tonight since I DO think this jawbone is Natalee

[monchichi]

Geeze I didn't mean to chase anybody off.  I just think rationally with the information the man is being given by LE right up to this past Friday regarding Terri he has to do what he has to do in regards to Kiara.

What if she is guilty? 

If she's guilty - I hope she's brought to SWIFT justice...her and any little co-conspirators (if there are any).  The sooner...the better, too!

  Ditto on that too....but looks like this case is going to be tied up for a long time with no evidence, I pray they have something hard and fast, but feel if they did, she'd have been arrested.

Yes, it's really bothersome that the GJ has had hundreds of people before them and still no indictment. 

  Exactly, you can indict a ham sandwich and I am not certain but an indictment doesn't necessarily mean she would be charged immediately or does it?? Any legal eagles in here tonight? Sorry, hopping cages tonight since I DO think this jawbone is Natalee

ICBW but I think once an indictment is handed down, they have to charge her within a certain time frame.  Does anybody know the answer?

[Lazydog1]

Good Morning Monkeys. Regarding keeping their finances separate. I guess I'm able to see that Terri stating she had to pay a monthly fee to Kaine could possibly be a lie to gain pity. $1000/mth is what I saw. She was getting child support for James. Lets not forget these two people lived together prior to getting married. It is possible to love a person who can not control the spending of money. A person might not understand how  financial decisions they have made affect being able to get loans and credit in the future. I find it very common especially in second marriages for people to have three accounts. His, hers, and a joint. He said they kept their finances separate, he didn't say that he didn't put money in an account for her to use on household type items such as groceries and necessities. I am just finding it hard to believe he didn't put money in an account so she could do some things she enjoyed.

It is very possible he purchased the house in his name only because of her credit history. He might have been able to get the loan with a much lower interest rate by going it alone. This would save them alot of money monthly in house payments. They appear to have a nice home but not an over the top home.

Lets not forget they also took some nice vacations. I doubt he made her save her pennies to pay her share on these trips. I live out here and I haven't once seen her walking along the road looking for pop bottles so she had spending money. It's looks to me in the pictures I have seen that she has nice clothes. She had a gym membership. She had a laptop computer. Sorry but I have done the lawn work, cleaned gutters, house, cooked, and lots of other things at my home. Raised my daughter myself and worked full time to do so. I didn't have a John Deere tractor to do this with. Sure would make my life easier to have one.

I also understand everyone is upset because he didn't share info with Desiree. How heart breaking for her to learn these things from LE. However, he has also learned things from LE that have been just as heart breaking for him. I don't pretend to know how these two people are feeling right now. Desiree has one focus right now and that is to find her beloved son Kyron. Kaine not only wants that but also wants to keep his beautiful daughter safe from the evil that took his son. He has to spend every day realizing he was possibly sleeping with the Devil. That alone would keep me down then add the other junk to it and I don't know how he gets out of bed in the morning, leaves his child with someone to care for her, and goes to work.

As far as the email he sent to the employees at Intel. Has anyone considered he was advised to do that by LE. They wanted info kept quiet at first. I can't imagine anyone made a move those first few days without discussing it with LE first.

Have I hit on pretty much all the discussions I've read in the last couple days.

Believe me I want the evil people responsible put away. I just learned recently that I have a Gkid in the oven. Tomorrow we go for the first ultrasound. This is pregnancy number four and we are all praying it will be different this time. We pray this will be a viable pregnancy. Wow! Trust me if I have a Gkid I will worry every day about this child. In this world we live in no one knows. I will do everything in my power to keep this child safe. Right now my daughter is over the moon with excitement. We all are. We will know more tomorrow. Today I have to watch my daughter get in her car and travel to work over Cornelius Pass in all the ice we have here. I am terrified. I only have to go 1 mile to work and I'm nervous about that as I have to travel on Hwy 30 to get there. I have 4wheel drive and will use it but I realize it doesn't help you to stop the vehicle. All vehicles have brakes on all 4 wheels. But others don't seem to realize that so they drive too fast endangering everyone on the road.

Anyone in this area please stay safe if you are driving somewhere. If you don't have to please stay home. Stay safe and warm.

These are all my own opinions. JMO

[klaasend]

NEW BLINK POST:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/23/chris-george-and-tracy-ocasio-a-blinkoncrime-com-investigation-uncovers-new-witnesses/

Chris George And Tracy Ocasio: A Blinkoncrime.com Investigation Uncovers New Witnesses

[sassifrass]

Kaine’s interview with Jane Velez-Mitchell

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/22/ijvm.01.html

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Do you have a theory as to what happened to your son?

HORMAN (via telephone): I have a few, and it just really — it just depends on how investigations go. It will help kind of dictate which ones of those are correct. But I have a couple of, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can`t share any of that with us even though —

HORMAN: You know, I`d rather not, our divorce case is still pending. We`re in the middle of the legal process there. The criminal cases haven`t started.

And when they do — yes, I really — yes, I have theories but sharing those theories potentially does some jeopardy to his case by giving other people insight that I really don`t want to have to share that information with.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was there one moment where you suddenly looked at her and said, oh, my God, and then chills and goose bumps just invaded your body and you said, “Oh, my god, the person I`m living with, that I share my bed with, I believe might have something to do with my child`s disappearance?”

HORMAN: Yes. Those were all events or times that occurred after he was missing already. And during those weeks that followed, that process we went through, the investigative process, it`s — let`s face it.

It`s a grueling process and it`s your ability as a parent or family member to be ruled out, to be ruled out as a suspect, to be ruled out as having any involvement with whatever has happened. And you have every ability to work with them, to clear yourself.

And as soon as that started to go south, as soon as she was refusing to cooperate, lots of suspicion arose, and I — I stood by her as long as I could until I couldn`t stand by her anymore. Then we had to leave for our own safety. And I think that we did everything that we could. I mean we – - there was other people who stood by her as long as they could as well, until we just got to the point where the behaviors didn`t match what we thought was going on.

And, yes, those were definitely either goose bumps or just those twinges in the intuition that say, ok, enough is enough. We`re kind of past the point of being reasonable in our support here. We need to take a different path.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have covered your case from the very start, and what gets me most of all, Kaine, is how your life just turned upside down and really turned into a living nightmare. Could you ever have imagined you would be in a situation where you are now, where your son is my missing and the person you live with, who you thought was your sort of soul mate, turned out to be somebody who, in your opinion, is — well, I`ll quote you, “a master of deception, misdirection,” and really the way you describe her as really sort of evil.

HORMAN: Yes. It`s — there`s a lot of things that we`ve found out or are finding out that were happening during the time that we were together that they`re just shocking. They are. And some of those behaviors, some of those events are, yes, things you don`t even see them coming.

No matter how hard you may look — most normal people don`t go home every day and investigate their spouse. I don`t think many people have that approach when they go home. And I`m one of those people. To have that twist everything around — yes, life is what we will call a new normal after the fact — the fact of him going missing and then us finding out more about her.

Life has definitely taken a different path, but it`s all relative. I — you have to put it in perspective and remember every day what he`s potentially going through right now and it doesn`t matter how much our life goes sideways at this point in time as long as we keep looking for him and bring him home. It`s all that matters and everything else will be whole when he comes back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m a recovering alcoholic myself with 15-and-a-half years of sobriety. I just want to ask you, you`ve said your estranged wife Terri Horman — soon-to-be ex — was an alcoholic who passed out.

When you look back on it, is there anything that you wish you had done differently in terms of her alleged alcoholism or drinking problem?

HORMAN: Well, she kept it hidden. That`s the hard part. As I look back and see different things that seemed odd and out of place. I asked questions, I did press. I wish I would have maybe pressed a little bit harder. But in looking at the grander picture, it was all hidden.

And it was a gradual progression. I don`t think it was one week she was normal and then one week she was this raging alcoholic. I think it was a slow build-up over time. And when you — you see someone, you see your spouse have a drink once a week, you don`t really ask any question. You see them have a drink twice a week, you probably don`t ask any questions.

When you don`t see them drink any more than that, you probably never ask any questions. But what`s happening behind the scenes, at least in this particular case, is we believe that it was just being hidden through various other forms, and because of the way we had our finances set up and some other things set up where we had things managed separately from each other, there was just not a lot of visibility into any information that would raise concern.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s been talk of a riff between with you and Desiree, Kyron`s biological mom. Any thoughts on that?

HORMAN: You know, we`re all going through — this is hard. This is over five months of the worst emotional strain you`re ever going to experience in your life. And we`re going to be emotional about things, and things will be said, things will be done that are going to be tough.

The one thing, though, is we just can`t lose focus on Kyron and bringing him home. And things like this or these types of things may come up here and there, but they — it doesn`t make him come home any faster. It doesn`t make much of a difference, but I think it`s part of the natural progression of the emotional roller coaster that we`re all going to go through.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You were out handing out flyers at a shopping mall recently. Tell us what happened and why you`re reaching out.

HORMAN: Well, we were at the mall passing out flyers to the businesses and actually at a couple of our different stops the people working there actually didn`t know that Kyron was still missing. So we talked to them about the situation and obviously we`re working with them to get flyers up in their stores or at the counter.

It`s a little bit surprising but in a way it was good to hear because it means we have a lot of work to do still. I know he`s out there and I know he can hear us talking and see us when we`re out there reaching out to him. We`re just going to keep doing that until we bring him home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[monchichi]

Thank you Sassifrass for posting that.  For me, that answers a lot of the questions/objections that have arisen over the last few weeks.  I really feel for this family, and I hope and pray every day Kyron will come home safely.

[monchichi]

In thinking about Kaine handing out fliers at the mall, it makes me wonder:

Do they believe Ky is still in Oregon, or is he simply doing what he can to keep people aware?

I go back to, did they check airport security tapes for that day and the days following?  Did they get out there and get his name and photo to all of the airport personnel?  Why was the search kept so local? 

I realize there will be some (maybe a lot) of you that think he has passed and the answers are on Sauvie Island, but until I hear otherwise I am still trying to keep hope alive in my heart. 

[sebastian]

In thinking about Kaine handing out fliers at the mall, it makes me wonder:

Do they believe Ky is still in Oregon, or is he simply doing what he can to keep people aware?

I go back to, did they check airport security tapes for that day and the days following?  Did they get out there and get his name and photo to all of the airport personnel?  Why was the search kept so local? 

I realize there will be some (maybe a lot) of you that think he has passed and the answers are on Sauvie Island, but until I hear otherwise I am still trying to keep hope alive in my heart. 

Hi Monchichi,
I hope that they are passing out flyers in the state of Washington as well. Anywhere at this point! I too am holding out hope that our little angel Kyron is still with us.

[sebastian]

Question: 

If Kaine were tasked to "prove" his sworn comments to the court that his spouse was a passed-out drunk several nights a week -

how would one go about proving it?

Well I know my answer will Piss you guys off.  But anyway here goes - Kaine's child is missing and Terri is the one under suspicion.  I do not see LE looking at anyone else.  He will not need to prove anything once she is cleared or charged that is why the judge granted them the extra time.

So knowing that information don't you think and wouldn't you also do what you needed to do to protect the remaining child.  This all pertains to the RO and Divorce/Custody not the fact that the stepmother of the missing child is under suspicion and very well could have Criminal Charges brought against her that could very well be in her future.  Hence having the best Criminal Attorney in the State of Oregon and pleading the 5th Ammendment. 

You can't have it both ways either JMO.  If you were in Kaine's shoes some of you may allow this person to see that child but I know personally for me I'd lie to the devil until I knew exactly what LE thought regarding Terri Horman.  And as we see Desiree and Kaine are both being lead to believe it is HER by LE.  You can be mad at LE but how can you fault him for protecting the remaining child anyway he can from her at this point in time. 

He is damned if does and damned if he doesn't with some.  JMO. 

I completely understand why Kaine does not want Terri having unsupervised visitation of Kiara if he truly believes she was involved with Kyron's disappearance. I just don't understand why it had to be such a media circus. I also think that it might benefit Kaine to allow SUPERVISED visitation with a court appointed mediator and himself being present. You know the old saying, "keep your friends close but your enemies closer". I just wish we knew someone who lived in the same town as Terri's parents. I just cannot imagine Terri being locked up in her parents house all of these months. She must be going insane yet she does not APPEAR to be posting anywhere. I cannot believe that she has not snapped yet. Seriously, where could she go? I would imagine that LE is all over anything coming out of that house. She has painted herself into a nice little corner and I just think that it is rediculous. It was always my understanding that the questions that she flunked with regards to the lie detector tests had to do with her timeline. If she went somewhere that she did not want anyone to know about (assuming that it was not related to Kyron) what could be so horrible that she would not just cough it up? Her silence is deafening and it makes it really hard for me to hold out hope that she was not involved.

[monchichi]

In thinking about Kaine handing out fliers at the mall, it makes me wonder:

Do they believe Ky is still in Oregon, or is he simply doing what he can to keep people aware?

I go back to, did they check airport security tapes for that day and the days following?  Did they get out there and get his name and photo to all of the airport personnel?  Why was the search kept so local? 

I realize there will be some (maybe a lot) of you that think he has passed and the answers are on Sauvie Island, but until I hear otherwise I am still trying to keep hope alive in my heart. 

Hi Monchichi,
I hope that they are passing out flyers in the state of Washington as well. Anywhere at this point! I too am holding out hope that our little angel Kyron is still with us.

Exactly.  Anywhere. 

[no rose colored glasses]

sebastian, I hear what you are saying about Terri's silence and hard to hold up hope that she wasn't involved. It sure looks like she is involved someway, but any good lawyer will tell his/her client not to speak. Some listen to their lawyer, some don't and talk anyway. She is really listening to her lawyer.

[klaasend]

Geeze I didn't mean to chase anybody off.  I just think rationally with the information the man is being given by LE right up to this past Friday regarding Terri he has to do what he has to do in regards to Kiara.

What if she is guilty? 

If she's guilty - I hope she's brought to SWIFT justice...her and any little co-conspirators (if there are any).  The sooner...the better, too!

  Ditto on that too....but looks like this case is going to be tied up for a long time with no evidence, I pray they have something hard and fast, but feel if they did, she'd have been arrested.

Yes, it's really bothersome that the GJ has had hundreds of people before them and still no indictment. 

I don't believe we know for certain there has not been an indictment. All we know for certain is that nobody has been arrested.  They could have a sealed indictment that hasn't been acted on yet.

[Titch]

Since I'm in such a hateful mood right now, I hate every single being that failed little Kyron and hope the culprit/s gets a swift kick in the azz.

[Titch]

NEW BLINK POST:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/23/chris-george-and-tracy-ocasio-a-blinkoncrime-com-investigation-uncovers-new-witnesses/

Chris George And Tracy Ocasio: A Blinkoncrime.com Investigation Uncovers New Witnesses

Thank you Klaas.

[Puzzler]

Question: 

If Kaine were tasked to "prove" his sworn comments to the court that his spouse was a passed-out drunk several nights a week -

how would one go about proving it?

Well I know my answer will Piss you guys off.  But anyway here goes - Kaine's child is missing and Terri is the one under suspicion.  I do not see LE looking at anyone else.  He will not need to prove anything once she is cleared or charged that is why the judge granted them the extra time.

So knowing that information don't you think and wouldn't you also do what you needed to do to protect the remaining child.  This all pertains to the RO and Divorce/Custody not the fact that the stepmother of the missing child is under suspicion and very well could have Criminal Charges brought against her that could very well be in her future.  Hence having the best Criminal Attorney in the State of Oregon and pleading the 5th Ammendment. 

You can't have it both ways either JMO.  If you were in Kaine's shoes some of you may allow this person to see that child but I know personally for me I'd lie to the devil until I knew exactly what LE thought regarding Terri Horman.  And as we see Desiree and Kaine are both being lead to believe it is HER by LE.  You can be mad at LE but how can you fault him for protecting the remaining child anyway he can from her at this point in time. 

He is damned if does and damned if he doesn't with some.  JMO. 

I completely understand why Kaine does not want Terri having unsupervised visitation of Kiara if he truly believes she was involved with Kyron's disappearance. I just don't understand why it had to be such a media circus. I also think that it might benefit Kaine to allow SUPERVISED visitation with a court appointed mediator and himself being present. You know the old saying, "keep your friends close but your enemies closer". I just wish we knew someone who lived in the same town as Terri's parents. I just cannot imagine Terri being locked up in her parents house all of these months. She must be going insane yet she does not APPEAR to be posting anywhere. I cannot believe that she has not snapped yet. Seriously, where could she go? I would imagine that LE is all over anything coming out of that house. She has painted herself into a nice little corner and I just think that it is rediculous. It was always my understanding that the questions that she flunked with regards to the lie detector tests had to do with her timeline. If she went somewhere that she did not want anyone to know about (assuming that it was not related to Kyron) what could be so horrible that she would not just cough it up? Her silence is deafening and it makes it really hard for me to hold out hope that she was not involved.

Where's she going to go without the press hounding her....and then I've read that there have been a lot of death threats, too.  So, I would think it would be best to stay in the house.

[Desdemona]

LE in this case has been disappointing too. Co$pared to another recent case, they look like amatures. I am a very strong believer in "Things aren't always what they appear to be". Based on that, we need more information, in 6 months, a GJ- why hasn't there been an arrest?

MK - agree that LE has been disappointing.  When I compare them to NC LE (Zahra's case).  Wow...what a difference.  In that case, LE was upfront, allowed the press to be very involved, the public has known all along what's going on and the progress they're making. NC LE has done a superb job in handling their case.  I don't want to infer that OR LE hasn't worked hard in their case.  That isn't it.  But I am disappointed that they don't come out an talk for themselves, that they give the parents tidbits of information, knowing the parents will go out.  However, IMO, it's tantamount to "using" the parents and I don't like that aspect.  Also, LE hasn't let out any real information and have manufactured photos to present for people to come to them with "independent" recollections (oxymoron). 

GJ - according to what we've heard, the GJ has talked with hundreds of people...still no arrest?  It's sounding to me like Stanton still doesn't have the concrete evidence he needs.

Significantly different types of cases, IMO, FWIW.

[Desdemona]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-09-14-women-alcoholism_N.htm

The Secret Lives of Female Alcoholics
Updated 9/15/09

By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAY
The numbers are troubling: An estimated 17.6 million adults in the USA are either alcoholics or have alcohol problems, according to the National Institutes of Health. By some estimates, one-third of alcoholics are women.

Yet if you were to ask a woman's friends and family if she has a drinking problem, they might very well say no.

When Paula Tokar, 26, told her friends she was getting sober and wouldn't be partying with them anymore, "They said, 'You seemed fine to us,' " says Tokar, now two years sober and living in Marshfield, Mass. That's because she'd worked hard to hide her alcohol abuse. "I was doing the things many women do, hiding drinks around the house, hiding vodka behind the frozen veggie burgers."

When a close friend admitted to Elizabeth Schwarzer she was an alcoholic, "I just couldn't believe it," the Boston mom, 34, says. "I would have sworn up and down that she wasn't much of a drinker." But looking back, there were "all kinds of signs, and I had pretty willfully ignored them."

Kate Sanborn of Abington, Mass., was convinced her drinking was her "little secret, my little world, that I didn't affect anybody." Now five years sober, she says women drinking brings up so many issues for people. "How can you possibly — your kids are always first — how can something else get in the way? But I'm sorry, when you're engulfed in alcoholism, you do things you would never do in any kind of clear mind."

Sanborn drank until she blacked out; later a neighbor said she'd heard Sanborn's infant son screaming all night. "He was right next to me in bed. I didn't even know it."

(More at link)
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[Desdemona]

http://peoplesinsight.com/articles/7-addictions/26-closet-alcoholic
"Closet Alcoholic"

The one thing no one knows about me is that I have a drinking problem.  I am an alcoholic, I can finally admit it now.  For a long time I was in denial about my drinking.  I have finally come to terms that I indeed have a problem.  I am what someone might call a closet alcoholic.
 
Not even my dear husband knows my secret.  He has no idea what's happening right under his nose. The only time he sees me drink alcohol is on social occasions.  I'm afraid to tell him I have a drinking problem because he'll never look at me the same way again.  I know he loves me but he'll lose respect for me once he finds out.  He's under the impression that I'm the model wife and mother which I certainly am not.

(More at link)
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[Desdemona]

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20317293,00.html
Secret Drinking:  A Mother's Struggle
November 2, 2009
People magazine


Emily, 35, says she began relying on alcohol to overcome feeling awkward. The alcohol helped her get through PTA meetings, school festivals and her boys' games. "But eventually, one beer wasn't enough," she says, and she found herself drinking upwards of 16 Bud Light beers a day—alone—and then heading off to cheer on Beau, 14, or Gavin, 9. "All I ever wanted was to be a mom," she says. "I didn't think I was as good as other moms, and being buzzed took that feeling away." Using gum, mouthwash, soap and perfume to mask her drinking, she says, "I was keeping it from everyone." She became an expert at focusing on a situation to "keep myself from being inappropriate." It worked: Emily's then-husband, Clay Denmark, says he never noticed a problem. "I didn't think she was an alcoholic," he says. "She'd have a couple of beers, but it wasn't a big deal."

Mother-of-two Wendy Vrba, 35, also became an expert at hiding her alcohol. She used to pour whiskey into her children's bottles and stash them in the diaper bag. "Whiskey looks like apple juice in a baby bottle," she says. "No one questioned what's in the diaper bag." As her kids got older, she got more creative. She would hide whiskey and cola in thermoses at her sons' hockey games. "I drank at everything from camping trips to sporting events," she says. "I always had gum and perfume with me."

Wendy's then-husband didn't see a problem, she says; her sons Brecken, 16, and Corbin, 13, didn't know about it either—until one day when she passed out while driving them to school. "Their screams woke me up," she says. "I could have killed them." Now sober for almost two years, she recently remarried and volunteers at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

Emily reached her low point a year after she and Clay divorced in 2006 (they fought over money and "expectations," Emily says; both agree they wanted different things). She found herself hiding away in her house, slamming beer after beer. "No one was counting," she explains. "To hide it, I started being later to the games or missing events entirely. I'd pass it off as being busy and other moms could relate to that." One night in November 2007 she was driving intoxicated—alone, thankfully—and police pulled her over. Convicted of driving under the influence, Emily served 14 days in jail. That, she says, was a wake-up call: She began attending recovery meetings and says she hasn't had a drink since. Several of her friends and her ex-husband still don't believe she ever had a problem, she says, but for her, "Every day is a struggle. I used alcohol to cope, and now I'm having to learn other skills."

(More at link)
--------------