Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[wantkyhome]

Since I'm in such a hateful mood right now, I hate every single being that failed little Kyron and hope the culprit/s gets a swift kick in the azz.

Hi Titch - why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel?  j/k
 ::MonkeyDance::Welcome to monkeydom and the cage!

[Puzzler]

Geeze I didn't mean to chase anybody off.  I just think rationally with the information the man is being given by LE right up to this past Friday regarding Terri he has to do what he has to do in regards to Kiara.

What if she is guilty? 

If she's guilty - I hope she's brought to SWIFT justice...her and any little co-conspirators (if there are any).  The sooner...the better, too!

  Ditto on that too....but looks like this case is going to be tied up for a long time with no evidence, I pray they have something hard and fast, but feel if they did, she'd have been arrested.

Yes, it's really bothersome that the GJ has had hundreds of people before them and still no indictment. 

I don't believe we know for certain there has not been an indictment. All we know for certain is that nobody has been arrested.  They could have a sealed indictment that hasn't been acted on yet.

You're right....and we discussed the other day that there is usually a "time limit" on acting upon any indictment...but to my recollection, we were not able to determine what that time limit was be in Oregon. 

Also, does anyone recall when the GJ time ended?  Was it toward the end of October?  TIA

[Puzzler]

LE in this case has been disappointing too. Co$pared to another recent case, they look like amatures. I am a very strong believer in "Things aren't always what they appear to be". Based on that, we need more information, in 6 months, a GJ- why hasn't there been an arrest?

MK - agree that LE has been disappointing.  When I compare them to NC LE (Zahra's case).  Wow...what a difference.  In that case, LE was upfront, allowed the press to be very involved, the public has known all along what's going on and the progress they're making. NC LE has done a superb job in handling their case.  I don't want to infer that OR LE hasn't worked hard in their case.  That isn't it.  But I am disappointed that they don't come out an talk for themselves, that they give the parents tidbits of information, knowing the parents will go out.  However, IMO, it's tantamount to "using" the parents and I don't like that aspect.  Also, LE hasn't let out any real information and have manufactured photos to present for people to come to them with "independent" recollections (oxymoron). 

GJ - according to what we've heard, the GJ has talked with hundreds of people...still no arrest?  It's sounding to me like Stanton still doesn't have the concrete evidence he needs.

Significantly different types of cases, IMO, FWIW.

Definately different types of cases.  Doesn't negate that GJ has talked with hundreds of people and still no arrest.  Yes, there may be an indictment that we don't know about, but there has been no arrest.  If there was an indictment, why hold off on the arrest.  Either there's enough for an indictment or there's not.  After all this time, "anybody" involved in this case is aware of the investigation and they might get arrested at any minute. To think that if there's an indictment against Terri and they're holding off on arresting her because the clock would begin ticking - is mixing up stuff - either there's enough for the indictment and it's okay for the clock to start ticking or there's no quite enough for an indictment yet and the clock shouldn't start ticking, so no arrest. 

It's pretty simple.  Even if LE thinks someone else is involved and going after that person and don't want to mess up the opportunity to get that person...IMO..."that person" is aware (more than any of us are aware) that he/she/they might get arrested.  Arresting Terri won't stop arresting others on the radar.  And to say that "other" might run and skip town if LE's hand is shown and Terri's arrested...well...that's LE's job - to keep other under surveillance and to catch them in the act of trying to flee (fleeing = conscious act of guilt).

It's been too long - if there's an indictment, it should be acted upon - and if others are under the radar, then LE needs to continue going after the others.  If there's an indictment or indictments determined, the arrest(s) could bring out the concrete evidence on any others that LE wants. 

I'm no longer enamored in the thought process that GJ for months meeting with hundreds of witnesses has possibly filed and indictment and its under seal waiting on "whatever".  Nope. 

[Tracygirl]

I just spoke with my husband. I asked him, "honey if I was drunk would you be able to tell? If I had slurred speech, passing out on the couch, and was stumbling around, what would you think?" He said, "I would think you had been hitting the cooking wine.".

I have lived with a person that drank everyday. Somedays I could tell he drank more then others. I would know if my husband drank everyday, I would smell it. But think about it, if Kaine was to say, yes I noticed she drank but I didn't consider it to be a big deal, it was at night time and she wasn't driving or anything. What do you think would happen with the custody case of Kiara? I do believe he is playing CYA right now. It is his way to say, she was a drunk but I am not guilty of ignoring it because I didn't know.

[Puzzler]

I just spoke with my husband. I asked him, "honey if I was drunk would you be able to tell? If I had slurred speech, passing out on the couch, and was stumbling around, what would you think?" He said, "I would think you had been hitting the cooking wine.".

I have lived with a person that drank everyday. Somedays I could tell he drank more then others. I would know if my husband drank everyday, I would smell it. But think about it, if Kaine was to say, yes I noticed she drank but I didn't consider it to be a big deal, it was at night time and she wasn't driving or anything. What do you think would happen with the custody case of Kiara? I do believe he is playing CYA right now. It is his way to say, she was a drunk but I am not guilty of ignoring it because I didn't know.

Well, IMO, you're husband is right and any other spouse would think the same thing; unless that spouse did care, or was not around, or was participating in the same things or is trying to CYA. 

I watched JVM last night and I've read the transcript here on SM twice ... Kaine said Terri's drinking was a slow gradual thing and Terri kept it hidden (words to that effect)...that's not the first time I've heard him say very similiar words.  However, there's no denying that his filing in court presents a different picture...a visual picture of a drunk with slurred speech, stumbling gait and passing out...not just passed out...but passing-out drunk "several nights a week".  Now...anybody...can pick up on that visual.  In fact..."I believe"....part of the wording in Kaine's court filing was "visibly" - I believe that means that Kaine is telling the court that he could "see with his eyes the state Terri was in". 

If Kaine can assert in a court filing that he can "see" then it's not hidden.  That's why Kaine is getting bashed in every forum I've read in; because posters in different forums are saying that Kaine's speaking out of both sides of his mouth. It is NOT helping Kaine's case for him to do that. 

Yes, we're talking about him a lot.  I know that some don't like that  There's a reason for talking about him so much lately; he's the one in the news.  When Desiree was in the news, we talked about her a lot.  Because Terri is not in the news, we talk about that a lot. So, it's no different to talk about Kaine a lot because he's been in the news a lot; making conflicting statements.  He's still not appealed for the person(s) who took Kyron to bring him home or set him free.  Since Kaine keeps saying that he believe's Kyron is alive and being held somewhere, I keep hoping to hear a plea from him.

[Puzzler]

I just spoke with my husband. I asked him, "honey if I was drunk would you be able to tell? If I had slurred speech, passing out on the couch, and was stumbling around, what would you think?" He said, "I would think you had been hitting the cooking wine.".

I have lived with a person that drank everyday. Somedays I could tell he drank more then others. I would know if my husband drank everyday, I would smell it. But think about it, if Kaine was to say, yes I noticed she drank but I didn't consider it to be a big deal, it was at night time and she wasn't driving or anything. What do you think would happen with the custody case of Kiara? I do believe he is playing CYA right now. It is his way to say, she was a drunk but I am not guilty of ignoring it because I didn't know.

Well, IMO, you're husband is right and any other spouse would think the same thing; unless that spouse did care, or was not around, or was participating in the same things or is trying to CYA. 

I watched JVM last night and I've read the transcript here on SM twice ... Kaine said Terri's drinking was a slow gradual thing and Terri kept it hidden (words to that effect)...that's not the first time I've heard him say very similiar words.  However, there's no denying that his filing in court presents a different picture...a visual picture of a drunk with slurred speech, stumbling gait and passing out...not just passed out...but passing-out drunk "several nights a week".  Now...anybody...can pick up on that visual.  In fact..."I believe"....part of the wording in Kaine's court filing was "visibly" - I believe that means that Kaine is telling the court that he could "see with his eyes the state Terri was in". 

If Kaine can assert in a court filing that he can "see" then it's not hidden.  That's why Kaine is getting bashed in every forum I've read in; because posters in different forums are saying that Kaine's speaking out of both sides of his mouth. It is NOT helping Kaine's case for him to do that. 

Yes, we're talking about him a lot.  I know that some don't like that  There's a reason for talking about him so much lately; he's the one in the news.  When Desiree was in the news, we talked about her a lot.  Because Terri is not in the news, we talk about that a lot. So, it's no different to talk about Kaine a lot because he's been in the news a lot; making conflicting statements.  He's still not appealed for the person(s) who took Kyron to bring him home or set him free.  Since Kaine keeps saying that he believe's Kyron is alive and being held somewhere, I keep hoping to hear a plea from him.

Correction:  unless that spouse "didn't" care (not "did")

[no rose colored glasses]

I would be able to tell just by looking at my husband's eyes, and since I'm very observant I would know he was drinking, and if for some reason I didn't, then I shouldn't be living with him, I don't like being fooled or lied to.

[Desdemona]

LE in this case has been disappointing too. Co$pared to another recent case, they look like amatures. I am a very strong believer in "Things aren't always what they appear to be". Based on that, we need more information, in 6 months, a GJ- why hasn't there been an arrest?

MK - agree that LE has been disappointing.  When I compare them to NC LE (Zahra's case).  Wow...what a difference.  In that case, LE was upfront, allowed the press to be very involved, the public has known all along what's going on and the progress they're making. NC LE has done a superb job in handling their case.  I don't want to infer that OR LE hasn't worked hard in their case.  That isn't it.  But I am disappointed that they don't come out an talk for themselves, that they give the parents tidbits of information, knowing the parents will go out.  However, IMO, it's tantamount to "using" the parents and I don't like that aspect.  Also, LE hasn't let out any real information and have manufactured photos to present for people to come to them with "independent" recollections (oxymoron). 

GJ - according to what we've heard, the GJ has talked with hundreds of people...still no arrest?  It's sounding to me like Stanton still doesn't have the concrete evidence he needs.

Significantly different types of cases, IMO, FWIW.

Definately different types of cases.  Doesn't negate that GJ has talked with hundreds of people and still no arrest.  Yes, there may be an indictment that we don't know about, but there has been no arrest.  If there was an indictment, why hold off on the arrest.  Either there's enough for an indictment or there's not.  After all this time, "anybody" involved in this case is aware of the investigation and they might get arrested at any minute. To think that if there's an indictment against Terri and they're holding off on arresting her because the clock would begin ticking - is mixing up stuff - either there's enough for the indictment and it's okay for the clock to start ticking or there's no quite enough for an indictment yet and the clock shouldn't start ticking, so no arrest. 

It's pretty simple.  Even if LE thinks someone else is involved and going after that person and don't want to mess up the opportunity to get that person...IMO..."that person" is aware (more than any of us are aware) that he/she/they might get arrested.  Arresting Terri won't stop arresting others on the radar.  And to say that "other" might run and skip town if LE's hand is shown and Terri's arrested...well...that's LE's job - to keep other under surveillance and to catch them in the act of trying to flee (fleeing = conscious act of guilt).

It's been too long - if there's an indictment, it should be acted upon - and if others are under the radar, then LE needs to continue going after the others.  If there's an indictment or indictments determined, the arrest(s) could bring out the concrete evidence on any others that LE wants. 

I'm no longer enamored in the thought process that GJ for months meeting with hundreds of witnesses has possibly filed and indictment and its under seal waiting on "whatever".  Nope. 

Respectfully, LE is not GJ nor DA's office.  And while I agree with you that it is highly unlikely that an indictment has been handed down, I must respectfully disagree that this issue is "pretty simple."

[Desdemona]

  Note to self:  Tracy and No Rose are much more astute and observant than many thousands of deluded spouses of closet alcoholics all across this country!

[Desdemona]

Well, IMO, you're husband is right and any other spouse would think the same thing; unless that spouse did care, or was not around, or was participating in the same things or is trying to CYA. 

I watched JVM last night and I've read the transcript here on SM twice ... Kaine said Terri's drinking was a slow gradual thing and Terri kept it hidden (words to that effect)...that's not the first time I've heard him say very similiar words.  However, there's no denying that his filing in court presents a different picture...a visual picture of a drunk with slurred speech, stumbling gait and passing out...not just passed out...but passing-out drunk "several nights a week".  Now...anybody...can pick up on that visual.  In fact..."I believe"....part of the wording in Kaine's court filing was "visibly" - I believe that means that Kaine is telling the court that he could "see with his eyes the state Terri was in". 

If Kaine can assert in a court filing that he can "see" then it's not hidden.  That's why Kaine is getting bashed in every forum I've read in; because posters in different forums are saying that Kaine's speaking out of both sides of his mouth. It is NOT helping Kaine's case for him to do that. 

Yes, we're talking about him a lot.  I know that some don't like that  There's a reason for talking about him so much lately; he's the one in the news.  When Desiree was in the news, we talked about her a lot.  Because Terri is not in the news, we talk about that a lot. So, it's no different to talk about Kaine a lot because he's been in the news a lot; making conflicting statements.  He's still not appealed for the person(s) who took Kyron to bring him home or set him free.  Since Kaine keeps saying that he believe's Kyron is alive and being held somewhere, I keep hoping to hear a plea from him.

(bbm) If I were in Kaine's nightmarish situation, I'm pretty sure that my main concern would be "helping the case" of [1] Kyron, and [2] Kiara.  I would be putting them first and working with LE and my divorce attorney closely.  I would follow their advice and comport myself accordingly.  It appears to me as though Kaine is doing exactly that.

In the same vein, if I were Kaine, I would probably not care too much whether the Internet community were bashing me or not, what their opinions might be of how I should be behaving or proceeding, nor how much they were discussing me; nor whether or not my sincere efforts to protect my children and myself in a horrific situation were "helping my case" with online forum posters ... JMO  I would not want to be in that man's shoes for a million dollars.

[Desdemona]

Goodnight all, and goodnight Kyron, wherever you are.  May you be found soon.

 

[sebastian]

Note to self:  Tracy and No Rose are much more astute and observant than many thousands of deluded spouses of closet alcoholics all across this country!

Add me into that as well. First of all, if I had children in the house, especially an infant, it would be my parental obligation to look out for the other parent. Terri had a DUI in the past, while driving with James. That is child endangerment. I would be keeping a close eye on Terri for that reason alone. On the one hand, it is awful to feel like you are beating up on a parent who has to be going through horrific pain (if in fact he is innocent of anything to do with Kyron's disappearance), but on the other hand, I am sick and tired of these parents covering up the warning signs when their children disappear. Who do we protect? The parents or the children? While I am on a nasty roll, what about brother Kristian? What is going on with him? How did Kaine react when Kristian was found guilty? Was he naturally upset? Did he say or do something to Kristian that may have caused a huge rift? Anyone sick enough to molest a child may be sick enough to do other things that society deems unacceptable, such as kidnapping.

[starwynn]

Since I'm in such a hateful mood right now, I hate every single being that failed little Kyron and hope the culprit/s gets a swift kick in the azz.

I'm not in a hateful mood, but I will certainly join you in the azz-kicking fest!! 

[Gypsy DD]

My only question is why have we here made this child's dissappearance a Kaine vs Terri or Kaine vs Desiree deal? 

Huh..if Terri is an alcoholic, who is to blame..Terri is to blame.

If Terri setup the obduction and murder of Kyron..who is to blame...Terri is to blame.

Was their marriage perfect..probably not..does an imperfect marriage lead to the murder of a stepson..not under normal conditions..the murder for hire of a husband..not usually.

Divorce would have been the normal solution..but Terri didn't take that route.
Why..my guess money..for all her bellyaching about paying her way in this world..she didn't want to have to support herself..she wanted it all.

[Kat_Gram]

He SAYS she was passsed out drunk a few times a week.
Sometimes at 1 am he would find Kiara up and put her to bed.
Where was he at 8 pm ?
Does this guy sound like he was interested in Kiara and her well being ?  Before this happened?
Oh and he SAYS he was a primary care giver. As he worked at home several days a week.
No one would have expected him to breathalyze her or investigate her, but if he was in the house so much, was he deaf, dumb and blind ?
Wife dislikes him so much, she talks to a LS guy about killing him and he didn't pick up on any clues to her dislke or hate ?
Sounds like he checked out mentally or physically months before this happened.
Terri was the one who emailed Desiree frequently about Kyron, not Kaine.
I am going to say something, don't hit me. Was this " not an option " that Desiree have Kyron to do with child support ? Kaine makes a good wage, seemed to have money for trips and toys ( red Mustang ), etc. If he had to pay child support for Kyron and Kiara and alimony or a settlement to Terri , his lifestyle would not have been the same, would it ?
..
IF Kyron comes back he won't be with Kaine would he ? No court would ever let him have Kyron again.

[hellokitty]

 

Alcoholism is a family disease for a very good reason.  The roles and denial of all people involved.

Alcoholism is a very complicated disease.

Thank you Desdemona for all that info on female alkies.

I do not feel Kaine's statements are contradictory at all.  I  have listened to and watched people that are alcoholics.

It is amazing the stories that they come up with to deny their illness . Their families believe them. 

Until even the families see that there is a problem.  Sometimes the families never see it.  Quite often the alkie doesn't see the problem.

Very very interesting cunning disease.

I think the AA book says something about being powerless over alcohol, and I think the corresponding Al Anon literature says the same thing.

[sebastian]

Alcoholism is a family disease for a very good reason.  The roles and denial of all people involved.

Alcoholism is a very complicated disease.

Thank you Desdemona for all that info on female alkies.

I do not feel Kaine's statements are contradictory at all.  I  have listened to and watched people that are alcoholics.

It is amazing the stories that they come up with to deny their illness . Their families believe them. 

Until even the families see that there is a problem.  Sometimes the families never see it.  Quite often the alkie doesn't see the problem.

Very very interesting cunning disease.

I think the AA book says something about being powerless over alcohol, and I think the corresponding Al Anon literature says the same thing.

In my opinion, Kaine cannot have it both ways. Either she was stumbling down junk, slurring her speech, etc. or he did not know she had a problem. Which is it? I hate that he continues to make inconsistent stories. I want to feel compassion for him. Terri had a DUI in the past, while her son James was in the car. Child endangerment! Did he forget about that? Was she spending all his money as he stated in the beginning or did they have seperate accounts as he states now? What about PPD? Is that still true, or is that now out the window and the alcohol has now taken its place. Was he cheating on Desiree with Terri, or does Desiree have it confused? The MFH plot? Was that real, if so why isn't Terri sitting in jail? Do not misunderstand me. I have no compassion at this point for Terri either. The longer she sits at her parents with her mouth closed, the more I feel she was involved to some degree. I just think that there is much more to this story that we have no idea about yet. All I am getting from Terri and Kaine is silence and inconsistencies. It is mind boggling while this innocent little boy is still missing.

[islandmonkey]

He SAYS she was passsed out drunk a few times a week.Sometimes at 1 am he would find Kiara up and put her to bed.
Where was he at 8 pm ? 
Does this guy sound like he was interested in Kiara and her well being ?  Before this happened?
Oh and he SAYS he was a primary care giver.    As he worked at home several days a week.
No one would have expected him to breathalyze her or investigate her, but if he was in the house so much, was he deaf, dumb and blind ?
Wife dislikes him so much, she talks to a LS guy about killing him and he didn't pick up on any clues to her dislke or hate ?
Sounds like he checked out mentally or physically months before this happened.  

 Terri was the one who emailed Desiree frequently about Kyron, not Kaine. 
I am going to say something, don't hit me. Was this " not an option " that Desiree have Kyron to do with child support ? Kaine makes a good wage, seemed to have money for trips and toys ( red Mustang ), etc. If he had to pay child support for Kyron and Kiara and alimony or a settlement to Terri , his lifestyle would not have been the same, would it ?   

IF Kyron comes back he won't be with Kaine would he ? No court would ever let him have Kyron again. 

My sentiments exactly, while Terri is accountable a marriage takes two and two that are engaged in the day to day activities of their children, wife/husband so accountability cuts both ways..........my responses BBM and ITA. I also agree that is he comes back I think Desiree should have Kyron unless there are some skeletons in her closet we don't know about, but I want Kitty and Ky to have a GAL appointed since he does seem to have checked out a long time ago IMO MOO

[Joni97103]

Alcoholism is a family disease for a very good reason.  The roles and denial of all people involved.

Alcoholism is a very complicated disease.

Thank you Desdemona for all that info on female alkies.

I do not feel Kaine's statements are contradictory at all.  I  have listened to and watched people that are alcoholics.

It is amazing the stories that they come up with to deny their illness . Their families believe them. 

Until even the families see that there is a problem.  Sometimes the families never see it.  Quite often the alkie doesn't see the problem.

Very very interesting cunning disease.

I think the AA book says something about being powerless over alcohol, and I think the corresponding Al Anon literature says the same thing.

In my opinion, Kaine cannot have it both ways. Either she was stumbling down junk, slurring her speech, etc. or he did not know she had a problem. Which is it? I hate that he continues to make inconsistent stories. I want to feel compassion for him. Terri had a DUI in the past, while her son James was in the car. Child endangerment! Did he forget about that? Was she spending all his money as he stated in the beginning or did they have seperate accounts as he states now? What about PPD? Is that still true, or is that now out the window and the alcohol has now taken its place. Was he cheating on Desiree with Terri, or does Desiree have it confused? The MFH plot? Was that real, if so why isn't Terri sitting in jail? Do not misunderstand me. I have no compassion at this point for Terri either. The longer she sits at her parents with her mouth closed, the more I feel she was involved to some degree. I just think that there is much more to this story that we have no idea about yet. All I am getting from Terri and Kaine is silence and inconsistencies. It is mind boggling while this innocent little boy is still missing.

Sebastian,  I have been feeling the same way for awhile now.  How can his court documents portray TH as a falling-down drunk, but then he says he didn't see it?  I feel so bad for the entire family, and yes, I do believe that TH knows something, but dammit, why can't everyone just be truthful???

[Puzzler]

He SAYS she was passsed out drunk a few times a week.Sometimes at 1 am he would find Kiara up and put her to bed.
Where was he at 8 pm ? 
Does this guy sound like he was interested in Kiara and her well being ?  Before this happened?
Oh and he SAYS he was a primary care giver.    As he worked at home several days a week.
No one would have expected him to breathalyze her or investigate her, but if he was in the house so much, was he deaf, dumb and blind ?
Wife dislikes him so much, she talks to a LS guy about killing him and he didn't pick up on any clues to her dislke or hate ?
Sounds like he checked out mentally or physically months before this happened.  

 Terri was the one who emailed Desiree frequently about Kyron, not Kaine. 
I am going to say something, don't hit me. Was this " not an option " that Desiree have Kyron to do with child support ? Kaine makes a good wage, seemed to have money for trips and toys ( red Mustang ), etc. If he had to pay child support for Kyron and Kiara and alimony or a settlement to Terri , his lifestyle would not have been the same, would it ?   

IF Kyron comes back he won't be with Kaine would he ? No court would ever let him have Kyron again. 

My sentiments exactly, while Terri is accountable a marriage takes two and two that are engaged in the day to day activities of their children, wife/husband so accountability cuts both ways..........my responses BBM and ITA. I also agree that is he comes back I think Desiree should have Kyron unless there are some skeletons in her closet we don't know about, but I want Kitty and Ky to have a GAL appointed since he does seem to have checked out a long time ago IMO MOO

Most toddlers are in bed early...before adults go to bed.  Is it that Kaine was going to bed "before" Kiara?  If not, then how did Kaine know that Kiara was still up at 1:00 in the morning and that Terri was passed out drunk....several times a week.  Did Kaine go to bed before the toddler's bedtime and then get up in the very early morning hours to check out Terri and Kiara?  See....this is hinky.