Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[islandmonkey]

One more thing I wanted to say before I forget (since my brain is fried from work) is, I wonder if it's a possibility that Terri sent James away because he noticed her alcoholism, passing out drunk on the couch, slurred speech and staggering gait.......sometimes kids are more in tuned than adults and pick up one specific behavoirs, even slight changes......I know my son knows ASAP if something is bothering me or I am keeping something from him. Just throught I'd toss it out there, and prolly not the case, but I can see it as he could have confronted her and she knew it was true and promised to do better (knowing she prolly wouldn't be able to IF she is an acoholic), and sent him away to avoid her son seeing her as a lush

[islandmonkey]

as it stands i don't even know if TH really had a drinking problem or not.  Just 'cause KH said she did in divorce docs. does not make it so.  i know that at one time she had a dwi, and that was in 2005.  that is all i know (on record) of her drinking problem.

True, so what do we really know? A DUI in 2005 that is the only thing verified that I'm aware of.

Excellent point, divorces under almost every circumstance nasty and a he said/she said    and I have seen a huge percentage of divorce proceeding and filings that are simply an attempt at character assasination (mine was too, problem was my ex couldn't prove ANYTHING he had filed and was destroyed on the stand and I could thru numerous witnesses )

I keep wondering (and I've asked the question, too) that if Kaine were asked in court to "prove" all those assertions he made about Terrin in his sworn affidavit he filed with the court - how would he go about "proving" that Terri was a passed-out drunk several nights a week.

I don't think he could IMO, unless James knows........otherwise it is a he said/she said which is pretty much what divorce allegations turn out to be, I know mine was but I was able to get my POS hubby's medical records even with the strict HIPPA laws and prove he was abusing RX, I also never let him drive with our son and when he was on his court approved visits, I made sure my oldest 2 stepsons were also there and never left him alone in the apt with our son or let him drive and they did.........sadly, they never thought that he was abuse him sexually when everyone was asleep and I thenk God I listened to my son's cues even though he was only 3 1/2 and the first time he told me he didn't want to go to dad's apt because he was scared I never let him go, then he disclosed the molestation and I was bound and determined he'd never lay eyes on him again and 7 1/2 yrs later he hasn't. We were very blessed to have a strong GAL in my son's case and the courts knew he wasn't a gun for hire, so when he testified to the judge we got an injunction that minute from Ave's dad seeing him, and then yrs later when the divorce was final, the judge cut off all parental rights, so I think more than anything and especially in blended families parents should listen to their children about their fears and anxiety and not chalk it off to normal behavoir, if I had done that my son would have been a victim over and over and over, instead of twice, because even twice did so much damage to him I wasn't certain he would ever be normal again and until we moved here he wasn't, now he feels safe and id thriving, granted there will be times thru his life when he is going to have issues ties to what this animal POS excuse for a human did to him, but we will address it as it happens and continue with therapy so he can continue on his path of moving on and become a very productive man........so far he's a hell of a kid, gifted and reads on a college level, but even his teachers tell me he's the most compassionate child they have seen and expect great things (I can't take credit for how he turned out, he was born this way) and I thank God every day for all my blessings, in that respect I am a very wealthy woman

[islandmonkey]

Another VERY interesting post from Seamus and it seems he is indicating what we are about skeletons in the closet:

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/07/latest-statement-from-kyrons-family.html

 Monday, July 19, 2010
Latest Statement from Kyron's Family


The adorable toothy smile continues to burn into the hearts of America.

This is the latest statement from Kyron's family.

I remain concerned that the family skeletons will continue to come out and be devoured in media. I also recognize that these statements, as well as the interviews, are in controlled environments where the family has maintained some degree of authority over media, including having some press kept out.Kaine and Desiree likely are concerned about media but continue to make attempts to keep Kyron's name and face in the news, even at the personal cost of public humiliation.

 

Kaine and Desiree's main priority remains keeping their energy and available time focused on assisting investigators in the search for Kyron. Kaine and Kiara have returned home (and) are getting settled back into the house. Kaine is spending time getting the house ready so that Kyron has a comfortable and safe home to return to. The family sends their deepest gratitude for your support and thanks everyone who is keeping an eye out for Kyron

Kaine and Desiree's

Kaine and Desiree. Tony is absent from this statement. It is delivered in the 3rd person which means it may not be from them but from someone else about them. This reduces commitment overall.


main priority


This means that Kaine and Desiree have at least one other priority. Normally, fathers of slain children will acknowledge death before mothers. There may be a priority in finding justice for Kyron in the mind of Kaine, more than in Desiree's mind. We have seen recent statements from Kaine that show fading hope in Kyron being found alive.

remains keeping their energy and available time

Time is being reduced as it is now "available" time. This may be on Kaine's part as he is putting the house back in order. It has been suggested by commentators here that one of Kaine's goals would have been to have CSI search the home exhaustively for clues. Kaine and Desiree may also be struggling with "energy" as their suspicions against Terri have increased and the anger builds. They need to be "focused" on what normally would need no guidance: focus to find Kyron. Here, however, they have a need to "focus". The only distractions that Kaine and Desiree may experience are their feelings about Terri's involvement, as they have been revisiting every tiny and minute detail that may have indicated that something, indeed, was wrong in that household. People wonder how a man would not know that there is a problem in the home that his wife has gone as far as contact someone to kill the husband. I wonder, as well, what Kaine's focus was during that period of time.

focused on assisting investigators in the search for Kyron.

Kaine and Desiree are "assisting" investigators; not searching for Kyron. The investigators are involved "in the search". I think this is a significant difference as we have watched language shift, over the past 6 weeks, sadly, to include "investigators" more than "searchers".


Kaine and Kiara have returned home (and) are getting settled back into the house.

note "returned" and "settled". They were once there, and when they left, they were not settled but unsettled. This is sensitive as a child as young as Kiara would experience quite a change in life and routine, not only not seeing her mother, but not having her familiar surroundings; including not seeing her brother.

Kaine is spending time getting the house ready so that Kyron has a comfortable and safe home to return to.

comfort comes before safety in their minds. This is very sad. Had the family been expecting a kidnapped child to return, safety would be not only mentioned first, but with stronger sentiment and additional words. It is a hope that is like a light which is slowly and steadily fading. This is sad.


The family sends their deepest gratitude for your support and thanks everyone who is keeping an eye out for Kyron

Notice the verb tense: "sends" and "thanks". There are many ways in which people express these sentiments; often we may see that the family "would like" to thank... This is not the same as saying "the family thanks" only that the family "would like" to thank. The latter is stronger. I may want to apologize but it is not the same as apologizing. I may want to thank someone, but it is stronger to actually go ahead and thank them. This is what Kaine and Desiree do.

The verb tense (present tense) shows a strong and sensitive commitment to the gratitude with "deepest" showing even more sensitivity.

Kaine and Desiree feel a deep, abiding (current) gratitude towards the community, which is sincerely expressed here in the present tense. My guess is that they have, together, had conversations about how many people care about Kyron, how many comments have followed articles, and how they have likely been contacted all across our country from well wishers and people of good will. This is a strong expression of thankfulness; so strong, in fact, that it suggests what follows:

Yet, the sadness creeps in once again.

"keep an eye out" for Kyron is not close to "searching" for Kyron.

The reality that this is not going to end well is stronger with each statement released from the family.

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks IM for that article

[islandmonkey]

WOW~I don't know how I missed all these, his analysis seem to be spot on IMO, including the fact that Kaine had a feeling that Ky was "gone" (sorry I hate to use the other word IYKWIM) before Desiree, and most of that is in his post about readying the house for Kitty IMO again I think he knew that Terri hated Ky so he knew the ultimate horror was most likely the case instead of being stashed somewhere and Desiree never had this knowledge so she continued to believe there was a chance .....m heart aches for not only  what ultimately happened to Ky, but the evil he endured in his own home such as being banned to his room for stupid things that really are just part of a kid being a kid, I so pray I am wrong but don't think so and that infuriates me to have to accept his life in that house was not that of a normal happy child, but a child walking on eggshells prooly trying to pls his stepmom when in reality nothing he could do, including being the perfect child would have changed her (Terri's) feeling towards Ky 

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/07/kyron-latest-family-statement.html

Our focus continues to be fully on the investigation and finding Kyron. All indications are that law enforcement obligations will be heavy in the coming week. As a result, we are sorry that we cannot schedule any media meetings. We really apologize for the change but, as always, our priority is keeping our energy and available time focused on the search and both of those things will be in short supply this week. We will keep you updated immediately on any changes. If any breaking events do come up we will schedule a Q&A or interview session accordingly. Thanks for your understanding. We are currently planning on holding sessions the following week (July 19th and July 22nd) as events progress. Thank you for everything you have done, Kaine & Desiree

A conciliatory and sensitive message (note: fully, really) message to preempt news seeking that may be uncomfortable for both Kaine and Desiree.

Note not only the sensitivity, but also that Kaine and Desiree are telling us that "both" "energy" and available "time" will be in "short supply" when? Answer: this week.

Have police informed them that a break, or an arrest is imminent? Is the convening of a Grand Jury something considered in order to compel Terri Horman to tell what she knows?

We wait to find out.

The focus of the letter appears to reveal a desire by Kaine and Desiree to get media out of the private lives of those involved, and back to Kyron. I don't expect much success in this.

This may have been what the family sought to avoid early on in the disappearance; therefore the reluctance to be before the cameras. We live in a new society where information travels faster than ever before. Media, once news orientated, now rushes to the salacious, which was once reserved for gossip pages.

Yet, Kaine and Desiree made the choice of trading away their dignity in order to keep Kyron's face in the news. The price is going up.


As I've commented previously, there have been indicators that Kaine was withholding information that is likely related to things that will embarrass him; in particular, about his marriage.
For instance, his description of the last time he saw Kyron alive (the morning of June 4) indicates tension, perhaps between Kyron and Terri, where he tried to keep things peaceful. It would appear that the tension was related to feeding the cat, the science project, and perhaps, lateness. We've also seen "noise" as a repeated theme throughout the statements, which may suggest as the bitterness towards Terri rises to the surface, the parents are defending a 7 year old boy's natural tendency to make noise. It is what kids do.

We now learn that Terri was, perhaps, having at least one affair and in response to this, she may have friends leak out information about Kaine that will embarrass him.    BIATCH!!!!!!!!!
With multiple affairs we may see a defense strategy emerge linking depression and the affairs (post-partum) and claims that Kaine ignored warning signs of danger and refused to get her help (or cooperate) as part of a larger picture. Defense attorneys can say anything, without fear of repercussion; whether it is true or not. I would not be surprised to hear blame thrown Kaine's way. But we will have to wait until Terri's attorney takes to the airways to have anything to analyze.

As we have seen before:

If Kaine is withholding information, it's sensitivity is not linked to Kyron's disappearance, but likely to 'dirty laundry' secrets in this family. Every home has skeletons in the closet; but with the disappearance of Kyron, we will likely hear that some of these skeletons not only directly impacted Kyron's quality of life, but may have contributed to his disappearance.
Media will continue to dig.



 http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/07/lying-and-murder-theme-continued-in.html




Sunday, July 11, 2010
Lying as Theme Continued in Kyron case

As readers here know well when studying the case of Casey Anthony, lying and murder are close cousins in spite of Cindy Anthony's assertion to the contrary. (Cindy Anthony said "Casey may have had a few misspokes, but that doesn't make someone a murderer".

A true liar, one who fabricates reality, is rare in society. Most people simply withhold information and deceive by default. Few will openly fabricate "reality" as it is stressful upon the body. When you meet a "true liar", you may sadly learn that you do not know what they are capable of doing.

A true liar is capable of perjury in a capital case.

----------------------------------------------------------------

In the case of missing 7 year old Kyron Horman, news was in short supply this weekend.

When news is in short supply, media sometimes grasps.

One report was that Virginia police were looking for Kyron there. As the article proceeds, it isn't about Kyron Horman.

Another article also came out, with direct quotes from Desiree Young, Kyron Horman's mother.

 The burning anger we have seen in previous analysis is now evidenced in the fact that Desiree is repeating conversations, in her head, that she had with Terri Horman, and it is tearing at her heart.

Shortly after her son, Kyron Horman, disappeared June 4, most of the missing 7-year-old’s family was in shock. There was one notable exception, Young says — Kyron’s stepmom, Terri Moulton Horman.

“She’s talking about her hair that she just got done, and they put highlights in, it turned out a little too orange,” Young recalled in a tape-recorded interview with WW Thursday evening. “I can’t get up every morning, put on my makeup or function even remotely normally, and she’s talking about going and getting her hair done.” ME: ITA, I couldn't even manage to shower so this is odd that Terri would even be worried about her hair and normal that Desiree can't function normally and sees how odd and strange it is that anyone would even notice or care when a child is gone [/color]

Desiree compares herself to Terri. This has been a continual theme and given the circumstances where Desiree gave up Kyron as she sought medical treatment when he was young. This will trigger guilt for any parent, but with a missing child, it is likely immeasurable.

Terri Horman’s attorney, Stephen Houze, has told reporters neither he nor his client will comment on the case.

Young says she suspected Terri Horman may have been involved in Kyron’s disappearance from the moment the stepmom called her to tell her the boy was missing. And Horman’s behavior after the disappearance heightened those suspicions.

“Every single day, we’d wake up, we’d gather up, and we’d just go and start doing stuff (to help find Kyron). And she was always just kind of behind,” says Kyron’s father Kaine Horman, who also sat for the WW interview. “It wasn’t about, ‘what can we do?’ It’s about, ‘what’s being done to me, or what about me?’ It was just kind of more centered around her.”


"Every single day, we’d wake up, we’d gather up, and we’d just go and start doing stuff. " And she was always just kind of behind


Note, this is a similar description he gave of Terri going to the bus stop to meet Kyron who would normally have gotten off it. He noted that he put on his daughter's shoes and Terri lagged behind but caught up. Now, he is addressing the early days, shortly after June 4 when he went missing, when the two families would begin each day to find ways to search for Kyron. Kaine uses "we" plural and "gather up" could be regarding the 19 month old daughter's belongings, or it could be the "gathering up" of thoughts on how best to proceed with another day (every single day denotes stress) in searching for Kyron, speaking to police and media. Terri was "always" "kinda" behind; lagging behind, reluctant, and certainly not in the lead. Mentioning that "we wake up" suggests insomnia. "doing stuff" suggests that they did not know what to do or where to begin; in particular, in the early days. By using his description of June 4, I expect that Kaine will reveal suspicions earlier on than he has.
'
I sense from him that he is withholding information. What information? I think it is in regards with his marriage and his suspicions. He may have had an affair or something that Terri Horman's attorney plans to use, along with her post partum depression, as a way to mitigate her involvement and responsibility.  ME: PPD my @ss, no excuse or tiny bit of mitigation should be expected, many experience PPD and don't disappear of harm anyone In his interview with Natisha Lance (from Nancy Grace show) he describes the day as not out of the ordinary. I think we will hear more and more that Terri was "hard" on Kyron, rather than outright "abusive" and that she argued with him about school, lateness, feeding the cat, and homework (in particular, the science project) and that this is sensitive to Kaine as it comes close to portraying him as having taken the side of his wife over his son, which would be intensely scrutinized by media at this time. Kaine's body language appears to me to be less straight forward than Desiree's. ME:  I sure hope not, but expect it's prolly the case as when someone has such intense hatred towards someone, the fact they breathe makes them angry and they lash out Kaine Horman filed for divorce and a restraining order against Terri Horman on June 28, saying in court documents he believes she’s behind Kyron’s disappearance and an alleged plot to have Kaine Horman killed. He says she also failed two polygraphs and walked out of a third.


NOTE: It was written "probable cause" in the affidavit which is police language which would mean there is enough evidence to arrest, but there has not been one yet.

Kaine Horman says it was only after Kyron disappeared that he learned the extent of his marital problems.

This is why I believe Kaine is withholding information. We do not have an actual quote so I cannot go into it in detail, but it is hard to believe that they were having marital problems but he wasn't informed of them. I believe the information he is withholding is related to his relationship and his suspicions; not nefarious information regarding Kyron's disappearance. ME: ITA with this assesment, more relationship issues and behavoiral than nefarious in Ky's disappearance[/color]He says he found out Terri Horman had been complaining to friends behind his back for months about their marriage. But he says she rarely expressed those feelings to him.

“She would basically just internalize it and go to somebody else and go, ‘hey, here’s how I feel, our marriage is having problems,’ and just vent to other people, having this victim mentality of, I want you to see it my way, I want you to side with me,” Kaine Horman says. “But she didn’t ever talk to me about it.”

We first see that he says "basically" which means that she didn't always internalize things; only "basically". This tells us that although it may have been more of a "norm" for her to internalize and tell others, she did externalize and speak to him. We now have a contradiction: If she "didn't ever" talk to him about it, how would he know she has a "victim mentality"? He would not have said "basically" if it was "didn't ever". Kaine fears being portrayed as not a good husband, and is sensitive about care over his children (which is another reason why he says he put his daughter's shoes on before he walked her to the bus stop. If you and your child walked to the bus stop together, would you feel the need to tell me that you first put her shoes on? Likely not, unless it was something you normally didn't do. Kaine is less than forthcoming about his relationship, and about himself as a father. This is a strange family and is anything but normal. Did Terri have any legal authority over Kyron? Did Desiree have custody? Did Kaine have sole or joint custody? When Desiree gave him up to Terri to care for, did she plan to take back custody? ME: This is such a burning question to me and soooooooo many others as I have noticed reading ont he net[/color] With all of these questions, is a mountain of guilt, which sometimes pours out in the statements (see Desiree's open letter to Kyron analysis) It is very sad. Kyron wasn't raised in a normal or healthy home. Did Terri consider her daughter her "real" child? Did Terri undergo personality changes via the use of Testosterone? How much time did she spend at the gym instead of mothering? Now, as Kaine says, is Terri choosing to remain in the house at the expense of the comfort and familiarity of her 19 month old daughter? ME: I have often wondered if the use of steroids even in the past (and I am assuming here as I don't know she did), but do the steroids cause testosterone to build up.......there is a case here, nothing about a missing child or anything nearly as important where we have a nut posting YT vid's daily about the oil spill and his anger, feelings that HE is the only one affected when in reality we had virtually NO oil hit our shores, and those in LA and MS have been devastated and he is a former bodybuilder, his anger and feelings of injustice to him and him ONLY are palpabale and unrealisitic, so if we have anyone who can answer this question, I would greatly appreciate it. TIAI suspect that both Desiree and Kaine are concerned about the digging that media does into the lives of people; however, they have risked that in order to keep Kyron's face in the public. The strange family dynamics may explain why there were sensitive to criticism of NOT being out with media as much early on in the investigation. They have come out, with apparent reluctance, with a clear motive: keep Kyron's face in the public view. This is in stark contrast with the media seeking case of Cindy Anthony, who, not only sought out medias and spoke incessantly, but openly expressed anger over others making money off of the name of Caylee Anthony. She then attempted to trademark Caylee's name for profit.

With the parents of Kyron Horman, we see pain and guilt, shame, embarrassment,  etc, but we don't find mercenary-like attempts to exploit the case as we did in the Anthonys, including the scamming of web sites, selling of personal pictures, appearances, etc. ME: Again he is spot on as was are seeing this in Kaine and Desiree, the guilt and shame is prolly the reason for withholding the info
He also told WW Terri Horman suffered post-partum depression after the birth of their daughter 19 months ago and may have been hiding her condition.

We will likely see this enter the vocabulary of Terri Horman's attorney.

Young and Horman say the full extent of Terri Horman’s deceptions wasn’t clear until after Kyron disappeared, when they and investigators began piecing the picture together in conversations with friends and acquaintances.

But Kaine Horman says he didn’t fully believe his wife could be behind Kyron’s disappearance until he learned about the alleged murder-for-hire plot. The Oregonian has reported Terri Horman offered to pay a landscaper to kill her husband six or seven months ago.

“I have no idea what she’s capable of, because she’s obviously done some horrible things or tried to do some horrible things that took us all by surprise,” Kaine Horman said.

This is strange because Kaine has also said that it was Terri, herself, who told him (and Desiree) that she failed two polygraphs. This is why I believe he is withholding information about things that he and Terri spoke about. He may have lied to himself, at first, therefore, "fully" enters into his statement. When someone says "I have no idea" it usually means that they are withholding information as most people have an idea about everything in life. Sometimes they just need a follow up question and an idea will come but other times a painful question is pushed aside ME: This has always confused me too, why would she even tell this fact as I don't think LE tells family (Although I could be wrong on whether or not someone passed/failed a LDT
Young says Terri Horman was a frequent liar about matters large and small.

“She can’t even tell the truth about her divorce or, you know, how she met Kaine, any of that,” Young says. “Silly little things. Stories about Kyron getting stung by a bee she can’t even tell the truth about.” ME: Did we ever learn for a fact IF Ky was allergic to bee stings, and if so this was so beyond cruel and evil on Terri's part that it is unfathomable IMO........also I wonder if she shared this with Kaine, not sure that has ever been explored or answered She says she suspects Terri Horman was untruthful in the first phone call to Young the day Kyron disappeared. 
“Sometimes a mother’s instinct can be pretty accurate, but at the same time, (my suspicion) was factual-based,” she says. “I can’t give you details, but some of what she was saying didn’t match up with me. I’m familiar with the school, and I know how the school’s set up, and some of what she’s saying doesn’t make sense to me.”

This is sensitive and sad.

Notice: "a mother's instinct" not her instinct but "a" mother; not a mother in particular, such as Terri or herself. This usage shows distancing from maternal instincts and is a trigger of guilt and pain for Desiree.
"can" means possible
"pretty accurate" is not exact.
She didn't say "my suspicion" . This is an interpretation of what media THOUGHT she said. Statement Analysis does NOT interpret: it listens.

"I can't give you details" : "can't" means that she is limited; either by knowledge, or by law enforcement, etc.

"some of what she said" didn't match up, but not all. Some things did match up.
This is sad: "I’m familiar with the school" because mothers know the schools well and are not just "familiar" which represents distance. This is sad for Desiree and sensitive.

"some of what she’s saying doesn’t make sense to me.”

Some things do make sense, and some things do not; in correlation to the school, science fair and the "good bye" (see prior analysis) that Terri has reported.

I fear more to come before this is over







Sorry for the long post, waiting on the turkey to cool off, and catching up so scroll and roll if these post bother you, but we always look at family dynamics and what could have been done differently that might have possibly changed the outcome of a child's life and personally I don't think there is anything wrong with it, especially if just ONE person learns from reading here and makes a change in the dynamics that saves one life.

My comments in blue, and regarding the withholding of info wrt Kaine, it could be he was only withholding this to the media and Desiree and I pray that's the case, as he could have given the info to LE thus not affecting the investigation any, but nevertheless it angered Desiree and she had every right to know what happened in the home where her child was being raised.

[hellokitty]

 

Terri does have a longer criminal history with alcohol/drugs that I have posted on here before and I will look for it and post it again.  I have no doubt that she is an alcoholic.

I think Kaine has realized after the fact what Terri's issues were.  I think he figured out that she was drunk rather than tired or whatever in the heck he thought or she told him it was.

Why was she sleeping on the couch?  That is very strange to me and it appears that it has been since Christmas, or is that when things were bad and Kaine said they had discussed things and thought that the issues were better or resolved?

They looked like such a fun family with their snugglies at Christmas time. 

I hear people saying that they would not leave their child with a drunk.  But I have a job that involves dealing with people with all kinds of issues, and I have seen the denial in professional women who have their own incomes.  Yet they stay with a man that is an abuser or an alcoholic or a serious philanderer.  It's all about relationships and what the needs are of those individuals.  They are getting their perceived needs met. 

I pray none of my children every becomes a drug or alcohol addict.  It would be so hard to let them live on the streets and suffer horrible consequences. I can see why parents enable them in spite of knowing the best thing to do is to let them suffer the consequences of their actions.  Some of those consequences would include death.  That would be so hard as a parent.

I wonder where TH was drinking that she had almost double the legal limit and she had a child with her.  No one noticed?

[islandmonkey]

Terri does have a longer criminal history with alcohol/drugs that I have posted on here before and I will look for it and post it again.  I have no doubt that she is an alcoholic.

I think Kaine has realized after the fact what Terri's issues were.  I think he figured out that she was drunk rather than tired or whatever in the heck he thought or she told him it was.

Why was she sleeping on the couch?  That is very strange to me and it appears that it has been since Christmas, or is that when things were bad and Kaine said they had discussed things and thought that the issues were better or resolved?

They looked like such a fun family with their snugglies at Christmas time. 

I hear people saying that they would not leave their child with a drunk.  But I have a job that involves dealing with people with all kinds of issues, and I have seen the denial in professional women who have their own incomes.  Yet they stay with a man that is an abuser or an alcoholic or a serious philanderer.  It's all about relationships and what the needs are of those individuals.  They are getting their perceived needs met. 

I pray none of my children every becomes a drug or alcohol addict.  It would be so hard to let them live on the streets and suffer horrible consequences. I can see why parents enable them in spite of knowing the best thing to do is to let them suffer the consequences of their actions.  Some of those consequences would include death.  That would be so hard as a parent.

I wonder where TH was drinking that she had almost double the legal limit and she had a child with her.  No one noticed?

I read about her criminal history and thanks to whomever posted this, IIRC it was early on......and obviously she is an alcoholic from what we read in the sworn affadavit, she was visibly drunk several nights a week and ITA about ppl saying they would not leave their kids with an alcoholic/drug addict, but I some here no doubt are posting from experience myslef included having an alcoholic brother and from my experience when my husband (ex now) started self medicating on RX drugs, and we actually did NOT leave our kids......At first I was uncertain what was going on with my husband, but the fact he'd fall asleep while sitting on the couch while eating was enough for my sensors to go thru the roof, and I vowed never to leave him in the home alone nor let him drive with my kids. I started investigating him a bit and followed him, that's how I found out about the Dr shopping and when I asked the pharmacist for his records (I told them it was for tax purposes), so within a week I knew and started planning a divorce I just couldn't risk an accident, and I knew I'd never forgive myself if anything happened to my kids. I DO understand also about your comment wrt having a child become an alcoholic, but I know without a dount if my child was an alcoholic I would not enable them, I watched my dad do that for yrs with my brother and it is only by luck he is still alive, that is why I didn't hesitate to call the cops when he came to my house drunk, it was the only time we had any power over him, and we put him in rehab. Granted he has fallen off the wagon, and from what I understand that is pretty much the norm, seems as thought alcoholic and drug addicts have to go more than once and even then must be in a support group to even hope to remain sober, yet it would be very hard to do the tough love thing and worry about whether your child was sleeping in a car etc., so IMO it's vitally important to get them in rehab ASAP, calling the cops and having them arrested gives you that opportunity and even my brother expressed gratitiude after he sobered up. Percerption is something I have been posting about lately, and I stated I think Kaine's perception may have been clouded after listening to his and then Desiree's versions of the affair and again in regards to Terri's alcoholism.

I too wonder why someone let her drive so impaired with her son, was she leaving an event where others saw her or was it just her and James, I don't know but if someone did know that and still let her drive, I find that so sad and pathetic, she could have killed him or any other innocent driver, pedestrian on the street and IMO the one that knew she was that drunk    But, that didn't happen and if it did I am sure we'd be asking the same questions, instead Ky is missing and that is why we are questioning the family dynamics, and acohol abuse along with asking was her punishment so severe of Kyron that it didn't raise eyebrows? The entire case is FUBAR and makes me so sad, he deserves to be with his family right now enjoying a wonderful meal and thinking about Santa Claus

[hellokitty]

 

Island, that took a lot of courage to check your ex out and very clever, too.

And you did do the best thing for your brother.  It's all up to him what happens. 

I can see why your father continues to enable.  I just feel that I might do the same thing.  Although at his age it wouldn't be as bad to leave him to his own devices (your brother).  He has become very adept at living with his issues and knows how to take care of himself, I bet.

It's on the same level as Kaine and Desiree thinking that TH did something to Khron, but yet there is nothing they can do about the fact that she has info.

That would be so incredibly difficult.  I pray for strength and peace for them, as well as for your brother.

[Puzzler]

Terri does have a longer criminal history with alcohol/drugs that I have posted on here before and I will look for it and post it again.  I have no doubt that she is an alcoholic.

I think Kaine has realized after the fact what Terri's issues were.  I think he figured out that she was drunk rather than tired or whatever in the heck he thought or she told him it was.

Why was she sleeping on the couch?  That is very strange to me and it appears that it has been since Christmas, or is that when things were bad and Kaine said they had discussed things and thought that the issues were better or resolved?
They looked like such a fun family with their snugglies at Christmas time. 

I hear people saying that they would not leave their child with a drunk.  But I have a job that involves dealing with people with all kinds of issues, and I have seen the denial in professional women who have their own incomes.  Yet they stay with a man that is an abuser or an alcoholic or a serious philanderer.  It's all about relationships and what the needs are of those individuals.  They are getting their perceived needs met. 

I pray none of my children every becomes a drug or alcohol addict.  It would be so hard to let them live on the streets and suffer horrible consequences. I can see why parents enable them in spite of knowing the best thing to do is to let them suffer the consequences of their actions.  Some of those consequences would include death.  That would be so hard as a parent.

I wonder where TH was drinking that she had almost double the legal limit and she had a child with her.  No one noticed?

hellokitty - BBM do you think Terri's sleeping on the couch since Christmas is connected in any way with the 9ll call of December 26, 2009, that Terri's divorce attorney is trying to get a copy of (LE doesn't want to let go, citing an ongoing criminal investigation)?

[no rose colored glasses]

The sheets/blanket on the couch maybe it was for one of the kids to sleep on. I would do that when one of mine was sick and then they wouldn't feel lonely in their room. Or to protect the couch from stains when you have young kids.

[sassifrass]

I love to read Seamus O'Riley and just checked and noticed two recent articles on Ky:

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/11/kyron-desiree-versus-kaine.html

There is a great deal of guilt from both Desiree and Kaine regarding Kyron's disappearance.

Early on, we did not analyze all of Desiree's letters; the guilt was too much.

Desiree left Kaine, at a very young age, in order to seek undisclosed medical treatment. She can reason within herself that if she had not done so, he would be alive today. Why didn't she bring him back to her after the treatment? Why does she need to withhold the treatment? Although everyone is entitled to medical privacy, by even telling the press that she left him, she raised the question of treatment herself.

Kaine alleged some powerful things against Terri Horman in court; yet, if he knew about her substance abuse and instability, why did he not keep Kyron safe with his mother?

Desiree was shown emails that Terri Horman sent in the days after Kyron went missing. This was just last week that police revealed them to her.

She is now speaking against Kaine.

She has now concluded that Terri Horman hated Kyron and blamed him for the destruction of her marriage. The natural question in Desiree's mind:

How is it that Kaine didn't take steps to protect her son from the raging step mother?

As this rift continues, it may get a lot worse. Guilt is a powerful force, and both parents have enough to go around.

Had Desiree not left her son with them, he would be alive.
Had Kaine reacted to Kyron's acting out or reacted to complaints by Kyron about his drunken step mother, and allowed him to live with Desiree, he would be alive today.

They are both in a no-win situation which, if justice is not found for Kyron, is going to spiral out of control.

It could lead to...

Below is an article from Oregonlive.com with quotes in italics and Statement Analysis in bold type. We will continue to view the statements of both parents and any breaking developments.

<snipped>  Great comments also on this one

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/11/kyron-no-answers-for-thanksgiving.html

 This Blog Linked From Here Links
This Blog     
Linked From Here     
.Links     
.
Wednesday, November 24, 2010
Kyron: No Answers for Thanksgiving

<snipped by me>

As the weeks have turned into months, the anger within Desiree has burned even hotter. She is left bereft of her son, and has only time in which, likely unable to gain quality sleep, is spent in going over every detail of Kyron's life; in particular, everything that he said about his step mother. Each complaint, each sad look upon his face, each time she may have dismissed him saying, "just be a good boy for her..." has got to come back and haunt Desiree.

<snipped>

Happy Thanksgiving Monkeys!

This article really ticked me off. Kaine and Desiree are NOT to blame for Kyron being missing because of the "would a could a should a" that some people seem to think. The fact is that if Terri had never been born, would have saved Kyron. SHE, and whomever helped her, are the ones, and only ones, that should have guilt regarding Kyron being missing.

All of us have made bad decisions in our life and those two are not immune to that. The fact that we don't know what happened when Desiree came back to the US after her kidney treatment and didn't try to get Kyron back is something that none of us have answers to. I'm sure she needed time for healing and most likely, her finances where pretty low by then. How could she fight someone making 90K or so a year? She couldn't. Kaine was in his tidy little home, shacking up with Terri.

Honestly, I don't care for Kaine either, but he IS Kyrons father and I totally believe that he loves him. I also believe, IMO, that Kaine was an absent father in many ways. I don't understand all of the contradiction going on about Terri from him. The only way I can explain it is, if he's been going to therapy, the things that he took as normal in the beginning, are now appearing to be abnormal. It's a part of therapy growth.

Lastly, BBM, I don't believe for one moment that Desiree would have said, or implied to Kyron, to be be "a good boy" if he complained or became sad because of something happening in his other home. I think she was duped into believing Kyron was living in a safe home.

JMO

[sassifrass]

The sheets/blanket on the couch maybe it was for one of the kids to sleep on. I would do that when one of mine was sick and then they wouldn't feel lonely in their room. Or to protect the couch from stains when you have young kids.

It could also be because they had a cat and didn't want cat hair on it. I have kitties and I keep a blanket over the sofa because it's easier to clean the cat hair off it. Just throw the blanket in the washer and wallah! When company comes over, I take the blanket off.

[islandmonkey]

I love to read Seamus O'Riley and just checked and noticed two recent articles on Ky:

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/11/kyron-desiree-versus-kaine.html

There is a great deal of guilt from both Desiree and Kaine regarding Kyron's disappearance.

Early on, we did not analyze all of Desiree's letters; the guilt was too much.

Desiree left Kaine, at a very young age, in order to seek undisclosed medical treatment. She can reason within herself that if she had not done so, he would be alive today. Why didn't she bring him back to her after the treatment? Why does she need to withhold the treatment? Although everyone is entitled to medical privacy, by even telling the press that she left him, she raised the question of treatment herself.

Kaine alleged some powerful things against Terri Horman in court; yet, if he knew about her substance abuse and instability, why did he not keep Kyron safe with his mother?

Desiree was shown emails that Terri Horman sent in the days after Kyron went missing. This was just last week that police revealed them to her.

She is now speaking against Kaine.

She has now concluded that Terri Horman hated Kyron and blamed him for the destruction of her marriage. The natural question in Desiree's mind:

How is it that Kaine didn't take steps to protect her son from the raging step mother?

As this rift continues, it may get a lot worse. Guilt is a powerful force, and both parents have enough to go around.

Had Desiree not left her son with them, he would be alive.
Had Kaine reacted to Kyron's acting out or reacted to complaints by Kyron about his drunken step mother, and allowed him to live with Desiree, he would be alive today.

They are both in a no-win situation which, if justice is not found for Kyron, is going to spiral out of control.

It could lead to...

Below is an article from Oregonlive.com with quotes in italics and Statement Analysis in bold type. We will continue to view the statements of both parents and any breaking developments.

<snipped>  Great comments also on this one

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/11/kyron-no-answers-for-thanksgiving.html

 This Blog Linked From Here Links
This Blog     
Linked From Here     
.Links     
.
Wednesday, November 24, 2010
Kyron: No Answers for Thanksgiving

<snipped by me>

As the weeks have turned into months, the anger within Desiree has burned even hotter. She is left bereft of her son, and has only time in which, likely unable to gain quality sleep, is spent in going over every detail of Kyron's life; in particular, everything that he said about his step mother. Each complaint, each sad look upon his face, each time she may have dismissed him saying, "just be a good boy for her..." has got to come back and haunt Desiree.

<snipped>

Happy Thanksgiving Monkeys!

This article really ticked me off. Kaine and Desiree are NOT to blame for Kyron being missing because of the "would a could a should a" that some people seem to think. The fact is that if Terri had never been born, would have saved Kyron. SHE, and whomever helped her, are the ones, and only ones, that should have guilt regarding Kyron being missing.

All of us have made bad decisions in our life and those two are not immune to that. The fact that we don't know what happened when Desiree came back to the US after her kidney treatment and didn't try to get Kyron back is something that none of us have answers to. I'm sure she needed time for healing and most likely, her finances where pretty low by then. How could she fight someone making 90K or so a year? She couldn't. Kaine was in his tidy little home, shacking up with Terri.

Honestly, I don't care for Kaine either, but he IS Kyrons father and I totally believe that he loves him. I also believe, IMO, that Kaine was an absent father in many ways. I don't understand all of the contradiction going on about Terri from him. The only way I can explain it is, if he's been going to therapy, the things that he took as normal in the beginning, are now appearing to be abnormal. It's a part of therapy growth.

Lastly, BBM, I don't believe for one moment that Desiree would have said, or implied to Kyron, to be be "a good boy" if he complained or became sad because of something happening in his other home. I think she was duped into believing Kyron was living in a safe home.

JMO

I don't think either or guilty in the disappearance either, but I do think it's natural for a parent to do the "would have, should have could have thing". I have done it myself, what if I did or didin't do xyz......of course the ramifications are not anything close to a missing child, more like a child got a fever and I was at work, to me it's mom guilt. I have it if I go to work and my son gets sick at school and think "why didn't I know he was sick before I sent him", and when I miss work I feel guilty sometimes. It sucks sometimes to have it but all the working moms I know admit to having "mom guilt" whether we should or not. ITA about absent father wrt checking out IMO, and also the fact it would have been very hard for Desiree to get custody back, from everything I have witnessed and personally know from my case and others-it is very hard to reverse custody unless there is a significant change in circumstances for the negative and I feel in this case even when there was one, she wasn't made aware of the fact so how could she have used it to fight? She was in a rock and a hard place and again agree with being duped, but that's JMO since we now know Ky was living with an alcoholic that exhibited symptoms of "something is WAY wrong", a SM that used excessive punishment and from what we are being told a complete sociopath. I also feel she has been the most honest of everyone and my heart aches for both, but for some reason even more for her since she was led to believe things were something they were not and I can only guess it might have been done for custody reasons cause IF she had known, I think she'd have gone to court for custody and she'd had enough to IMO reverse custody, instead she is learning how Kyron really lived from media, so yes that is a kick in the gut to someone already suffering.

[islandmonkey]

The sheets/blanket on the couch maybe it was for one of the kids to sleep on. I would do that when one of mine was sick and then they wouldn't feel lonely in their room. Or to protect the couch from stains when you have young kids.

You mean we aren't supposed to have blankets on the couch normally J/K....my kids love to snuggle on the couch and in the winter we many times have a blanket if not a pillow on the couch, and also when my kids were little it was pretty much the norm to prevent kool-aide or whatever from ruining my couch. Finally I broke down and bought brown leather, but shhh I still have throw blankets on it

[pdh3]

Geeze I didn't mean to chase anybody off.  I just think rationally with the information the man is being given by LE right up to this past Friday regarding Terri he has to do what he has to do in regards to Kiara.

What if she is guilty? 

I totally agree with your posts. But I sometimes feel that rational and logical go out the window when someone is disliked. I hate to sound like a Kaine Horman cheerleader, but I feel he is getting an unfair tarbrushing. Kaine is disliked by some, perhaps because there may be some projection going on, perhaps some mistaken sympathy for Terri (although I hope there would be no one that could identify with her on this forum!), or some personalizing of the Horman divorce/custody situation, etc. And when more information about Terri trickles out, then this is sneaky LE, 'leaking' info to try to unfairly trap Terri. LE is not on Kaine Horman's payroll. If they thought he was guilty, we'd be hearing a bunch of stuff about him as well; they have no "We hate Terri Horman, just because..." agenda. But... no matter what the facts are, they seem to be ignored or twisted through speculation to villify him further.
It's unavoidable I guess, because we are all entitled to our opinions and foibles, but I don't have to like it.

Thank you for this post. I agree 100%. It has clearly gone way off track in the Kyron forum. It doesn't matter what happens in this case, there are some posters who will find a way to blame Kaine for it. He is a grieving, suffering parent of a missing child, and his pain is no less than Desiree's. This bashing of Kaine all the time is just mean, IMHO.

I think that we should be able to express our thoughts without being called "mean". It is his words that make me not trust him, no one elses but his.

I'm expressing my thoughts....I think it's mean to rake a grieving parent over the coals, and  twist every word he says into something he didn't intend. Some of this stuff  he's being criticized about , that's also a is extremely petty. There have been posters on this forum who have been looking to blame Kaine since the day Kyron went missing. Kaine is NOT a suspect,he never has been a suspect, and he should be treated kindly because he is also a victim, and he is suffering terribly. He is trying to protect Kiara, and he's doing the best he can, I am sure. He is living a nightmare.
In a divorce, the lawyers use strong language and lots of drama to make their case against the other spouse. All of the posters who are calling Kaine out for the words used in the pleadings are wrong. He DID NOT WRITE THOSE WORDS. His attorney did, and thats just how the legal process works. Legal proceedings are really like theater, and attorneys are often acting or exaggerating certain points for their legal strategy.
Kaine has a separate branch of this tragedy unfolding before him even as he has had to deal with a missing Kyron. Of course he's changing his view as he learns more, and he is expressing a different attitude. That makes perfect sense. There's nothing sinister about it.
Before posters start tearing a grieving parent's words apart, maybe the CONTEXT should be considered. Or that the situation is evolving. Everyone does that. People change their ideas about others in their lives as they get more information.

 I really hope he doesn't read here.

[klaasend]

When arrests are made in this case, I will bet you my life that Kaine will not be the one arrested and that Terri and maybe an accomplice will be.  LE knows who is responsible, they are getting their evidence together and an arrest will be made. 

I don't like seeing Kaine, Desiree or Tony bad mouthed in any way.  Nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes.  Kaine, Desiree and Tony are all victims.

[monchichi]

When arrests are made in this case, I will bet you my life that Kaine will not be the one arrested and that Terri and maybe an accomplice will be.  LE knows who is responsible, they are getting their evidence together and an arrest will be made. 

I don't like seeing Kaine, Desiree or Tony bad mouthed in any way.  Nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes.  Kaine, Desiree and Tony are all victims.

TY, TY, TY Klaas.  You said it better than I could.

[hellokitty]

 

I am amazed, too, that people criticize Kaine as an "absent" father.

In jobs that are demanding, the employer demands a lot.  If you don't like it, there are 100 people waiting to take your job.  Probably more.

40 hours a week is not a work week that professionals have.  He is providing for his family.  His wife got to stay home with the children.  And she got to do what she wanted to do such as volunteer at the school and go to the gym. I think a lot us would have liked to take care of our children instead of going to work.

Even Kaine working and providing for his family gets criticized.  Very sad to me.

[Monkey King]

With all the talk of how professional Kaine is/was, and how Terri was a stay home Mom who only had to concern herself for the raising of the chilren and the daily functioning of the home? Then, why according to various sources, which I cannot quote (I'm away from my computer), that Terri was obligated to pay Kaine 1,000.00 per month in addition to raising the children maintaining the home on a daily basis.

[fatcatlurker]

When arrests are made in this case, I will bet you my life that Kaine will not be the one arrested and that Terri and maybe an accomplice will be.  LE knows who is responsible, they are getting their evidence together and an arrest will be made. 

I don't like seeing Kaine, Desiree or Tony bad mouthed in any way.  Nobody is perfect, we all make mistakes.  Kaine, Desiree and Tony are all victims.

I think it's coming soon also Klaas.  I totally believe LE knows "who" and I believe they have the evidence to convict but why rush it.