Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[islandmonkey]

With this case, we, Joe Public know fragments of information. None of us know what really went on in the Horman home. Kaine was a real heel to Desiree, why should we think he is any different now or treated Terri any better? What makes Kaine's accounts of what their homelife and interactions so trust worthy? For some reason, Terri has not spoken. I'm very curious why. Terri's silence does not indicate guilt nor would her screaming from the rooftops indicate innocense. Kaine is trying to get custoday of Kiara. He's going to pull out all the stops, talk whatever trash he can to accomplish this. That's Kaine. He's also going to use whoever he can who's willing to assist him. I've seen bad divorces. This is one of them. If Kyron's case were resolved, I'm sure we'd judt have two parents fighting it out in court. Kyron's case is the priority not the divorce. 

MK, you make some very good points.

Why is it that posters can't see the big picture? The divorce is necessary to PROTECT KIARA. Kaine has to worry about her also. Both children are EQUAL priorities, and one does not have to exclude the other.

As far as how Kaine and Desiree ended their marriage....I will say it once again. Kaine has a different view, and they were ALREADY DIVORCING when she found out she was pregnant. Maybe she was hoping that having a baby would help, but you cannot in all honesty tell me that she had no clue her marriage to Kaine was already over, or that they didn't have problems big enough to cause a divorce. A pregnancy is not going to fix those things. She may have been wanting something that just wasn't possible. I suspect that's the case, and that Kaine stayed just to help her out and take responsibility for his child. I don't think he ever planned to make it a permanent thing. He says he was there on a temporary basis. His viewpoint is as valid as hers, since no one here knows what happened other than they were already estranged. It isn't even important now.

I think we see the big picture, just many see it differently and I do agree IF everything he has stated is true then he absolutely need to protect Kiara. That being said, we only know the details from his point of view and just like the divorce/affair when he was married to Desiree she obviously saw it very differently, and also she didn't get pregnant on her own, so they were still sleeping together (unless of course she just happened to get pregnant in a 2 week window when he filed for divorce or decided to divorce)......see, that is what many posters have a problem with, we just don't know what went down behind closed doors of his marriage to Desiree. But, I think when you are still married and only deciding to divorce, find out a baby is coming and are staying in the same home but still sleeping around with Terri on the side , well IMO that's not the best behavoir for a man soon to be a father I know when I was going thru my divorce which took yrs and I already had him out of the house, my atty told me DO NOT do anything Jesus wouldn't do  No dating, sleeping around, don't be seen in bars etc.....he knew that I could and most likely would be asked those questions about my behavoir when we went to court, so I didn't, my first priority was my child and I wasn't going to do anything to jeapordize custody even if it took yrs. Also, you don't know she got pregnant on purpose to keep Kaine, no one does....but again she didn't get pregnant by immaculate conception so at some point they were sleeping together. I think it might have been the best choice to maybe be supportive of the woman carrying your child as I don't think it's ever good to add additional stress or burden to someone pregnant, but that's just me. I think her viewpoint is just as important as his, and in light of what has come out from Desiree about Kaine withholding information about what was going on in her son's home, and had to hear from the media, I consider her to be more believeable of the two. She knew Ky was unhappy, and IIRC the school had talked to her about his behavoir due to stressers in the home and she asked for custody, but it wasn't an option per Kaine. Now I read how excessive and inappropriate her punishments were and that Ky suffered due to it, well I can't imagine why someone wouldn't allow the other parent to at the very least have temporary custody of him until he got help for Terri and she was no longer passing out visibly drunk 3 nights a week or filed for divorced and kicked her out. Then he could have worked out the custody with Desiree, but it might have made a difference in this case, we will never know.

Also you state "you can't tell me she didn't know her marriage to Kaine was over", well I and others feel the EXACT same way about the recent revelations that Kaine didn't know his wife was an alcoholic. If he didn't and was working from home 3 days a week, I have to wonder how engaged he was. It all comes down to perception, and obviously his perception of not only Terri but also Desiree was vastly different than reality. Now I am in no way saying he had anything to do with Kryron's disappearance, I think that is Terri and an accomplice, but if Kyron had been with Desiree temporarily and only visiting Kaine and Terri every other weekend I do wonder if we'd know his name and I don't think it unfair to ask questions in that regards, nor should anyone take it personally or think I hate Kaine.....simply another wrong perception, I just wonder about his behavoirs and choiced he made and how they affected his kids.

[Puzzler]

Below, I have snipped a portion from a very long post.  It's interesting to look back on some of Blink's statements:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/comment-page-49/#comments

Idahogal says:
November 25, 2010 at 11:04 am
(snip)
I’m attaching some Blink quotes here that have pointed me in this direction:

July 6, 2010 at 10:39 am
Are you saying the landscaper is involved with the disappearance of Kyron?
That is my belief. Yes.
B

July 13, 2010 at 12:19 pm
people, go after the landscaper, he is the key.
B

July 13, 2010 at 4:18 pm
You have something the rest of us don’t, though: the landscaper. You have had the opportunity research him and if you say he is the key, I believe it.

There is no research whatsoever to implicate him. My opinion is solely based on known information, and experience. He is the key.
B

July 17, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Blink,
If you were guessing, who would be your biggest FOCUS?
Rudy Sanchez and his associates.
B
He drives a white truck, which has a UCC lein, and is registered in WA (RS)
B

And is this the same Landscaper that has the missing wife and kids.... and the one who was confronted in front of them by LE?? I can see how he could be involved as far as motive, and the word "KEY".......oh hell no!!!!!! Not another key as in "Misty is the key", and to this day we still no nothing factual 

This is the same landscaper whose wife and children are missing; the same landscaper that Terri called 911 on and that LE later went to RS's home; the same landscaper that was "livid" (according to Blink) because Terri called 911 (he is in the country illegally).

Where are his kids? It is being assumed the wife took off with them, but how do we really know that? They were not reported missing until one month after it is said they were last seen. These are very hinky details in my opinion.
Did Kaine know this man? Kaine says he didn't know they had a landscaper, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know the landscaper, does it?

Wife and kids are missing.  Are they together - it's "assumed".  LE is trying to find them - Blink told us this.  Terri called 911 on  Rudy in May, LE showed up at Rudy's home, his wife and children went missing in late May, June 4 Kyron went missing.  Very hinky!

I haven't heard that Kaine knew the Landscaper (but that only means we don't know).  I find it a little hard to believe that Kaine wasn't aware of the incident in May where the landscaper accosted Terri and she called 911.  I've read on forums that Kaine was there at the time (however, Blink did NOT report that Kaine was there - so don't know for a fact). 

I've also read on forums that Kaine is friends with a guy who runs a tree farm - a guy who's planned (or was planning - don't know the status) of have a Christmas tree sale/fundraiser in Kyron's name, and that guy (Kaine's friend) is also friends with Rudy as Rudy has worked for him before.  So, there's a chance that Kaine might know Rudy through his friend and/or through Terri.  I first thought Terri might have hired Rudy through a reference from their friend that owns the tree farm/nursery.  Then we heard that she met him at the school when volunteers were sprucing up the school and it's grounds. 

Here's a link to Blink's article she wrote about this.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/#comments

[islandmonkey]

With this case, we, Joe Public know fragments of information. None of us know what really went on in the Horman home. Kaine was a real heel to Desiree, why should we think he is any different now or treated Terri any better? What makes Kaine's accounts of what their homelife and interactions so trust worthy? For some reason, Terri has not spoken. I'm very curious why. Terri's silence does not indicate guilt nor would her screaming from the rooftops indicate innocense. Kaine is trying to get custoday of Kiara. He's going to pull out all the stops, talk whatever trash he can to accomplish this. That's Kaine. He's also going to use whoever he can who's willing to assist him. I've seen bad divorces. This is one of them. If Kyron's case were resolved, I'm sure we'd judt have two parents fighting it out in court. Kyron's case is the priority not the divorce. 

MK, you make some very good points.

Why is it that posters can't see the big picture? The divorce is necessary to PROTECT KIARA. Kaine has to worry about her also. Both children are EQUAL priorities, and one does not have to exclude the other.

As far as how Kaine and Desiree ended their marriage....I will say it once again. Kaine has a different view, and they were ALREADY DIVORCING when she found out she was pregnant. Maybe she was hoping that having a baby would help, but you cannot in all honesty tell me that she had no clue her marriage to Kaine was already over, or that they didn't have problems big enough to cause a divorce. A pregnancy is not going to fix those things. She may have been wanting something that just wasn't possible. I suspect that's the case, and that Kaine stayed just to help her out and take responsibility for his child. I don't think he ever planned to make it a permanent thing. He says he was there on a temporary basis. His viewpoint is as valid as hers, since no one here knows what happened other than they were already estranged. It isn't even important now.

I agree with your post pdh3, but I think that for some, dislike of Kaine (for whatever reason) seems to take precedence over any of the suspicion (due to her own words and actions) against Terri.  lodged  The result is a never-ending circuitous discussion. As for allegations of Kaine's CYA , he doesn't need to. He is not under suspicion. Terri is.
Speaking of misconceptions, I recall reading that it was NOT LS Rudy Sanchez' wife and kids that left as originally thought. Is there a link after the initial debunking of that rumor that restates that it was in fact RS' family?

Here is the missing poster...I thought this was his family, but IIRC he has a few alias

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewCsawDetail&caseNum=1148744&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

[Puzzler]

One more post then I will stop with the streams of posts.

Puzzler I read a comment on Blinks regarding a man in a uniform. Can you please tell me if a person was seen with Kyron and he was wearing a uniform? What was that about?

I am off to make our Thanksgiving dinner today because we are all together. I will "see" you all later.

I really don't have any information on that.  Sorry.  I recall reading a few post about a person with a uniform and how easily people accept any in a uniform and how easy it is to obtain a uniform and for it to be worn by "anyone" (thereby fooling the people into thinking that they represent some company or position, etc.).  Most everyone would not question that a person wearing a uniform didn't have the right to wear the uniform.  We're really vulnerable in that respect IMO.

[Puzzler]

IF somebody had planned to set up anyone with a white truck, would it make sense they were trying to set up Kaine? After all, he was the one (according to Kaine), that drove the truck.

I'd agree with that assesment except according to a skyline parent who post on BOC (and Puzzler correct me if I am wrong), but I thought she said Kaine wasn't active in his school events.....SO PLEASE correct me so it doesn't come across that I am saying things about Kaine that aren't true. TIA

IM - I did read on BOC that a Skyline parent posted that Kaine wasn't active in school events. 

If I'm sleuthing the "thought" of a planned set-up this is how my thoughts go:

Kaine's truck - so someone is upset with Kaine for whatever reason and trying to set Kaine up - maybe someone who knew Kaine's truck and possibly thought Kaine was at the school - this would be someone close enough to Kaine or with motive enough to know his truck.  Anger/vengence - oldest motive known in time.

White truck that someone knew Terri would be driving that morning - would have to be someone VERY close - someone who would have intimate knowledge that Terri would drive the truck that morning - who would know because she usually drove the red mustang - someone close in her world (closed friend, family member, Kaine).  I believe it's been in the press that the thought is this person is someone close to the family.

Someone after revenge on Terri, someone following her and it just "so happened" she was driving the white truck that morning and it made things easier because there are a lot of white trucks...a neutral vehicle.  Maybe the vehicle she was driving had nothing to do with anything.  More that there was a science fair at the school and something could happen to a child without anyone paying attention.  Person thought they could take advantage of the confusion at the school.  Sounds crazy...but that's what actually happened (no one person saw "who" Kyron left with - or we would have seen a arrest right after the event.

   

[Puzzler]

I can see the big picture, and just because some don't see things like others do doesn't mean anything, now does it? We all see things differently and some of us like to question things, can't see anything wrong with questioning things, never hurts to do that.

Agree.

That's what good sleuthing is all about IMO - asking questions and remaining open in your mind enough to continue to ask questions until an arrest has been made. 

When you stop asking questions and make hard decisions about a person's guilt when even LE hasn't arrested them, well, IMO, you're not really open to the "truth" at that point.

The "truth" is what I'm interested in finding out.  I've said it before: I don't really care who is guilty, I care that whoever is guilty is the person(s) is caught and brought to justice. 

[sebastian]

Hiya Island Monkey,
I just wanted to say that I agree with everything that you said in your top post. I did not want to add to it again as it is getting so long, lol. I too trust Desiree's version of things more so than Kaines. I have found her to be much more consistent. She also does not appear to have any sort of agenda other than the obvious, which is wanting her precious son to come home.

[Puzzler]

With this case, we, Joe Public know fragments of information. None of us know what really went on in the Horman home. Kaine was a real heel to Desiree, why should we think he is any different now or treated Terri any better? What makes Kaine's accounts of what their homelife and interactions so trust worthy? For some reason, Terri has not spoken. I'm very curious why. Terri's silence does not indicate guilt nor would her screaming from the rooftops indicate innocense. Kaine is trying to get custoday of Kiara. He's going to pull out all the stops, talk whatever trash he can to accomplish this. That's Kaine. He's also going to use whoever he can who's willing to assist him. I've seen bad divorces. This is one of them. If Kyron's case were resolved, I'm sure we'd judt have two parents fighting it out in court. Kyron's case is the priority not the divorce. 

MK, you make some very good points.

Why is it that posters can't see the big picture? The divorce is necessary to PROTECT KIARA. Kaine has to worry about her also. Both children are EQUAL priorities, and one does not have to exclude the other.

As far as how Kaine and Desiree ended their marriage....I will say it once again. Kaine has a different view, and they were ALREADY DIVORCING when she found out she was pregnant. Maybe she was hoping that having a baby would help, but you cannot in all honesty tell me that she had no clue her marriage to Kaine was already over, or that they didn't have problems big enough to cause a divorce. A pregnancy is not going to fix those things. She may have been wanting something that just wasn't possible. I suspect that's the case, and that Kaine stayed just to help her out and take responsibility for his child. I don't think he ever planned to make it a permanent thing. He says he was there on a temporary basis. His viewpoint is as valid as hers, since no one here knows what happened other than they were already estranged. It isn't even important now.

pdh3 - BBM - do you have a link to where Desiree has publicly stated that she knew her marriage was already over when she got pregnant with Kyron?  TIA

 

[sebastian]

I can see the big picture, and just because some don't see things like others do doesn't mean anything, now does it? We all see things differently and some of us like to question things, can't see anything wrong with questioning things, never hurts to do that.

Agree.

That's what good sleuthing is all about IMO - asking questions and remaining open in your mind enough to continue to ask questions until an arrest has been made. 

When you stop asking questions and make hard decisions about a person's guilt when even LE hasn't arrested them, well, IMO, you're not really open to the "truth" at that point.

The "truth" is what I'm interested in finding out.  I've said it before: I don't really care who is guilty, I care that whoever is guilty is the person(s) is caught and brought to justice. 

I agree with your posts NoRose and Puzzler. I always question everything. As new things come out, I will question them as well. Just because I may not agree with certain posters does not mean that "I don't get it" or that I "can't see the big picture". I think we should all be able to RESPECTFULLY post our views and opinions without being painted with a negative brush when we don't agree.

[no rose colored glasses]

Hiya Island Monkey,
I just wanted to say that I agree with everything that you said in your top post. I did not want to add to it again as it is getting so long, lol. I too trust Desiree's version of things more so than Kaines. I have found her to be much more consistent. She also does not appear to have any sort of agenda other than the obvious, which is wanting her precious son to come home.

I also agree. I just don't understand, just because a person questions other people besides Terri why that means you hate that person? For me I like to take a look at all the people, doesn't mean I think they are guilty of a crime. There is always more to the story with all the cases, and it is hard for me to not question things.

[sebastian]

Welcome Goatwhisperer! I love your name! Very clever!

[Puzzler]

With this case, we, Joe Public know fragments of information. None of us know what really went on in the Horman home. Kaine was a real heel to Desiree, why should we think he is any different now or treated Terri any better? What makes Kaine's accounts of what their homelife and interactions so trust worthy? For some reason, Terri has not spoken. I'm very curious why. Terri's silence does not indicate guilt nor would her screaming from the rooftops indicate innocense. Kaine is trying to get custoday of Kiara. He's going to pull out all the stops, talk whatever trash he can to accomplish this. That's Kaine. He's also going to use whoever he can who's willing to assist him. I've seen bad divorces. This is one of them. If Kyron's case were resolved, I'm sure we'd judt have two parents fighting it out in court. Kyron's case is the priority not the divorce. 

MK, you make some very good points.

Why is it that posters can't see the big picture? The divorce is necessary to PROTECT KIARA. Kaine has to worry about her also. Both children are EQUAL priorities, and one does not have to exclude the other.

As far as how Kaine and Desiree ended their marriage....I will say it once again. Kaine has a different view, and they were ALREADY DIVORCING when she found out she was pregnant. Maybe she was hoping that having a baby would help, but you cannot in all honesty tell me that she had no clue her marriage to Kaine was already over, or that they didn't have problems big enough to cause a divorce. A pregnancy is not going to fix those things. She may have been wanting something that just wasn't possible. I suspect that's the case, and that Kaine stayed just to help her out and take responsibility for his child. I don't think he ever planned to make it a permanent thing. He says he was there on a temporary basis. His viewpoint is as valid as hers, since no one here knows what happened other than they were already estranged. It isn't even important now.

I agree with your post pdh3, but I think that for some, dislike of Kaine (for whatever reason) seems to take precedence over any of the suspicion (due to her own words and actions) against Terri.  lodged  The result is a never-ending circuitous discussion. As for allegations of Kaine's CYA , he doesn't need to. He is not under suspicion. Terri is.
Speaking of misconceptions, I recall reading that it was NOT LS Rudy Sanchez' wife and kids that left as originally thought. Is there a link after the initial debunking of that rumor that restates that it was in fact RS' family?

Scatty....do you have a link to the debunking of that rumor - the family being missing is discussed off and on at Blink's.  I read on Blink's all the time (never posted there though).  Blink is the one who told us LE is looking for the family.  I don't recall ever reading that it was debunked, though, and would appreciate have more information if you have it. 

[Puzzler]

I am happy to be here! I registered a long time ago - and just snoozing.. with the monkeys! You love your bannanas! so I will toss a few!

Welcome to the cage, Goatwhisperer!

[Goatwhisperer]

Marriages, and whats behind closed doors we will never know. KH, pressers, seem as if he didn't know what was happening, and on the other side did.  But who cares about this. I don't. Issues are issues in the house. But what is revealing to me, on June 4th, that she.."who is this," was the last know person to have seen KH.  A last know person, with a motive: Oh how I hope, LE, has evidence to support the details of this last day, that KH would be known to the world! My symphathy to the family, and the grief they have to endure.

[Puzzler]

Marriages, and whats behind closed doors we will never know. KH, pressers, seem as if he didn't know what was happening, and on the other side did.  But who cares about this. I don't. Issues are issues in the house. But what is revealing to me, on June 4th, that she.."who is this," was the last know person to have seen KH.  A last know person, with a motive: Oh how I hope, LE, has evidence to support the details of this last day, that KH would be known to the world! My symphathy to the family, and the grief they have to endure.

Goatwhisperer...we don't know yet what LE has found out during their investigation and we don't know what the investigative Grand Jury has found out in their hundreds of interviews, so IMO we don't know "who" the last person was to have seen Kyron. There have been posts that Kyron was seen at school "after" Terri left.  The fact is...we don't know what the facts are...yet.

[Puzzler]

Here's a very recent posting about who saw Kyron last by a regular poster at BOC:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/comment-page-50/#comments

beejay says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:23 pm

When is the last time anyone heard LE say that Terri was the last one to see Ky at school. Got a link?

Best I can recall, it was before the press started putting it out there that a student had seen Ky subsequent to Terri.

And then, LE went quiet. And asked the students and parents not to give out any timeframes (and maybe asked the media as well).

IIRC, we just keep seeing the media repeat their original statement. Anybody want to research MSM for more recent, direct statements by LE? Short of finding those, we can probably remove that “fact” from our thinking.

At least one student, and possibly other persons present on June 4 saw Ky after Terri did. And possibly after Terri is confirmed to have left school without Ky (that fact, from Blink).

That removes another constraint from our thinking.

[Goatwhisperer]

Marriages, and whats behind closed doors we will never know. KH, pressers, seem as if he didn't know what was happening, and on the other side did.  But who cares about this. I don't. Issues are issues in the house. But what is revealing to me, on June 4th, that she.."who is this," was the last know person to have seen KH.  A last know person, with a motive: Oh how I hope, LE, has evidence to support the details of this last day, that KH would be known to the world! My symphathy to the family, and the grief they have to endure.

Goatwhisperer...we don't know yet what LE has found out during their investigation and we don't know what the investigative Grand Jury has found out in their hundreds of interviews, so IMO we don't know "who" the last person was to have seen Kyron. There have been posts that Kyron was seen at school "after" Terri left.  The fact is...we don't know what the facts are...yet.

Yes, I understand what has been released, and we are not privy to the investigation, I was only quoting, "last know person," could have been someone else, as all believe there might have been an accomplice. At this time, reading, all, I would wonder who that could be, that would risk their livelyhood and freedom inregards to this. JMO

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks Puzzler for posting that.

[klaasend]

Marriages, and whats behind closed doors we will never know. KH, pressers, seem as if he didn't know what was happening, and on the other side did.  But who cares about this. I don't. Issues are issues in the house. But what is revealing to me, on June 4th, that she.."who is this," was the last know person to have seen KH.  A last know person, with a motive: Oh how I hope, LE, has evidence to support the details of this last day, that KH would be known to the world! My symphathy to the family, and the grief they have to endure.

Goatwhisperer...we don't know yet what LE has found out during their investigation and we don't know what the investigative Grand Jury has found out in their hundreds of interviews, so IMO we don't know "who" the last person was to have seen Kyron. There have been posts that Kyron was seen at school "after" Terri left.  The fact is...we don't know what the facts are...yet.

Yes, I understand what has been released, and we are not privy to the investigation, I was only quoting, "last know person," could have been someone else, as all believe there might have been an accomplice. At this time, reading, all, I would wonder who that could be, that would risk their livelyhood and freedom inregards to this. JMO

Who do you think it could be?  The landscaper that Terri attempted to have kill Kaine?

[Goatwhisperer]

Marriages, and whats behind closed doors we will never know. KH, pressers, seem as if he didn't know what was happening, and on the other side did.  But who cares about this. I don't. Issues are issues in the house. But what is revealing to me, on June 4th, that she.."who is this," was the last know person to have seen KH.  A last know person, with a motive: Oh how I hope, LE, has evidence to support the details of this last day, that KH would be known to the world! My symphathy to the family, and the grief they have to endure.

Goatwhisperer...we don't know yet what LE has found out during their investigation and we don't know what the investigative Grand Jury has found out in their hundreds of interviews, so IMO we don't know "who" the last person was to have seen Kyron. There have been posts that Kyron was seen at school "after" Terri left.  The fact is...we don't know what the facts are...yet.

Yes, I understand what has been released, and we are not privy to the investigation, I was only quoting, "last know person," could have been someone else, as all believe there might have been an accomplice. At this time, reading, all, I would wonder who that could be, that would risk their livelyhood and freedom inregards to this. JMO

Who do you think it could be?  The landscaper that Terri attempted to have kill Kaine?

You are asking me my opinon? okay... no, I don't see the landscaper involved, not at all. In my personal opinion, and mine only, I only see one person responisble. Anyone one else, would not have an interest nor money enuf to do this horrific task. JMO  Back up, the landscaper at her house? or the school?