Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[Goatwhisperer]

I personally in my heart, think DS, the landscaper, mowing the lawn... should be excluded.. not a person of interest. He just happened to be there. Poor guy. Name being throw around.

Your probably right, but he was there and IIRC he mentioned the kids out looking at the garden with NO teacher, and to me anyone at the school that was gone the time Kyron disappeared should be investigated. I'm sure LE has by now, but I have always been curious about him and the time he left after mowing, did that conincide close to the timeline when they think Kyron disappeared?

Island.. give this guy a break. He just happened to be there that day, and unbeknowst to him,. came forward, and didn't even know what happened. I feel so sorry for him, and I think this should end with his name being said on this.. enuf said, OMO, JMO.

I must admit I am curious what investigative tools you have used to exclude Stetson. He came forward? wasn't it like months later and didn't he change his story? Or do I have that incorrect?

I guess, in my humble opinion, with all the talk of Terri having an accomplice and the very fact that Kyron was last seen at the school - and Terri appears to have a timeline that is rather tight - wouldn't it make sense that the accomplice was AT the school also?

So, you have teachers, parents, school admins, the landscaper / groundskeeper - and the accomplice who no one to date have been able to identify.

I guess I am having a hard time understanding how this person / accomplice went about this abduction completely unnoticed.

Robbie, ever think that maybe there was not an accomplice?

[klaasend]

GoatWhisperer - I'm going to call you GW from now on ok?

GW - I just hope the grand jury has either already handed down sealed indictments or they are ready to indict.  The longer it goes on the more speculative people are getting.  Kyron deserves justice.

[islandmonkey]

I personally in my heart, think DS, the landscaper, mowing the lawn... should be excluded.. not a person of interest. He just happened to be there. Poor guy. Name being throw around.

Your probably right, but he was there and IIRC he mentioned the kids out looking at the garden with NO teacher, and to me anyone at the school that was gone the time Kyron disappeared should be investigated. I'm sure LE has by now, but I have always been curious about him and the time he left after mowing, did that conincide close to the timeline when they think Kyron disappeared?

Island.. give this guy a break. He just happened to be there that day, and unbeknowst to him,. came forward, and didn't even know what happened. I feel so sorry for him, and I think this should end with his name being said on this.. enuf said, OMO, JMO.

Thanks for your opinion GW~but the fact I am talking about his truck being in the PL of the school doesn't make him a kidnapper/murderer....but he did change his timeline and once mentioned he saw the kids and once said he was so busy paying attn to the mowing he didn't see anything. I feel sorry for alot of ppl, but Kyron is the vitcim, so I question everything.......also who's to say he didn't know anything? Probably he didn't, but just because someone tells me or LE that doesn't make it so.....if it did LE would never need to do anything but ask are you guilty, anyone who says I don't know what you are talking about walks free.

[Rob]

If Mr Stetson is completely honest in his account and I'm not saying that he isn't - he said that he saw kids in the outside area near a garden if I recall correctly - he WAS outside and yet he doesn't this the abductor / accomplice?

Wouldn't he possibly have a clear view of several doors during the time that this horrible event occurred? I guess it's entirely possible that he was preoccupied with his ground's keeping and didn't notice - but other than saying he saw children outside near a garden unattended - what could he possibly say to a grand jury?

One other point - wouldn't it be easier to abduct a child that was outside unattended then a child that allegedly never left the building? If you consider that someone would have to chance a sighting - by multiple people - in order to get into the building and abduct Kyron - seems to me one of the children who were outside would be an easier target -

unless of course - the person was in the school before Kyron arrived...

[Goatwhisperer]

GoatWhisperer - I'm going to call you GW from now on ok?

GW - I just hope the grand jury has either already handed down sealed indictments or they are ready to indict.  The longer it goes on the more speculative people are getting.  Kyron deserves justice.

I am hoping for the same, as far as all the speculations.. I am past that!  For sure, DY, and KH need peace and closure to this horrenduos crime. They need baby KH brought home to rest.

[Rob]

I personally in my heart, think DS, the landscaper, mowing the lawn... should be excluded.. not a person of interest. He just happened to be there. Poor guy. Name being throw around.

Your probably right, but he was there and IIRC he mentioned the kids out looking at the garden with NO teacher, and to me anyone at the school that was gone the time Kyron disappeared should be investigated. I'm sure LE has by now, but I have always been curious about him and the time he left after mowing, did that conincide close to the timeline when they think Kyron disappeared?

Island.. give this guy a break. He just happened to be there that day, and unbeknowst to him,. came forward, and didn't even know what happened. I feel so sorry for him, and I think this should end with his name being said on this.. enuf said, OMO, JMO.

I must admit I am curious what investigative tools you have used to exclude Stetson. He came forward? wasn't it like months later and didn't he change his story? Or do I have that incorrect?

I guess, in my humble opinion, with all the talk of Terri having an accomplice and the very fact that Kyron was last seen at the school - and Terri appears to have a timeline that is rather tight - wouldn't it make sense that the accomplice was AT the school also?

So, you have teachers, parents, school admins, the landscaper / groundskeeper - and the accomplice who no one to date have been able to identify.

I guess I am having a hard time understanding how this person / accomplice went about this abduction completely unnoticed.

Robbie, ever think that maybe there was not an accomplice?

I don't recall saying I thought there was an accomplice - just pointing out that others do and talk of it frequently. I guess some have a hard time understanding how Terri could have done it all on her own or her time line is too tight to allow her to complete this unassisted - so they figure she must have had help.

but thank you so much for the leeway to think on my own. 

[islandmonkey]

If Mr Stetson is completely honest in his account and I'm not saying that he isn't - he said that he saw kids in the outside area near a garden if I recall correctly - he WAS outside and yet he doesn't this the abductor / accomplice?

Wouldn't he possibly have a clear view of several doors during the time that this horrible event occurred? I guess it's entirely possible that he was preoccupied with his ground's keeping and didn't notice - but other than saying he saw children outside near a garden unattended - what could he possibly say to a grand jury?

One other point - wouldn't it be easier to abduct a child that was outside unattended then a child that allegedly never left the building? If you consider that someone would have to chance a sighting - by multiple people - in order to get into the building and abduct Kyron - seems to me one of the children who were outside would be an easier target -

unless of course - the person was in the school before Kyron arrived...

Also, IIRC I remember a press conference where Desiree stated "what was he doing outside the school"......I do agree it would be easier to nab a child outside than take on out of the building and not one person see it, but the reason I think there is an accomplice is that Terri went to Fred Myer's at two different locations and why would someone who calculated this crime take a chance and leave him in the truck while she went in? Of course it's JMO but I don't think she took him out of the school herself.

[Goatwhisperer]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

[islandmonkey]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

So, if you don't have opinions what you are saying is fact? Are you privy to the info LE has, if so we'd love a hint, nothing that would impede the investigation but anything you can tell us that is a fact would be very helpful.

Thanks GW and welcome to SM

[Rob]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

[islandmonkey]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

[Goatwhisperer]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

So, if you don't have opinions what you are saying is fact? Are you privy to the info LE has, if so we'd love a hint, nothing that would impede the investigation but anything you can tell us that is a fact would be very helpful.

Thanks GW and welcome to SM

"Are you privy to the info LE has" NOT,and now way!

[Rob]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

[islandmonkey]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

So, if you don't have opinions what you are saying is fact? Are you privy to the info LE has, if so we'd love a hint, nothing that would impede the investigation but anything you can tell us that is a fact would be very helpful.

Thanks GW and welcome to SM

"Are you privy to the info LE has" NOT,and now way!

Ok~my bad, I know sometimes ppl post on SM that know someone in the case, are a victim of a tragedy, or know someone in LE etc., and since you had stated you had no opinions I thought maybe you knew something concrete when you said "he didn't even know what had happened" wrt DS I thought is was a possibility.

[sebastian]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Rob, you must have been reading my mind. Terri's silence has made me believe that she must be involved, but all of her other problems, ie: the boozing, her immature friends, etc, have me wondering, how the heck she could have done this all by herself. I just cannot give her that much credit. In my opinion, she had to have had help. Someone emotionally or financially invested that was alot more cunning and clever than she is.

[Goatwhisperer]

Keep it simple, is my moto. So simple, that no one can believe that one person can do this. Yes one person can plan and plot. JMO

[islandmonkey]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school? Yes, if I had the victim in my vehicle I'd never run errands, I'd get rid of them ASAP...this is why I go with accomplice

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. EXACTLY, I would never risk taking someone to an area that had so many witnesses just to take them out of the area, I'd just run the car off the road etc., you know many other choices   If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. OMG~I just posted about that on FB, I wouldn't think a passing out drunk could pull it off so neatly with no trail, NOR keep quiet about it, I thought drunks talked alot.. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels. 

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out. Again, ITA....in that situation with the child at school, I think under KISS a SO or crime of opportunity, but I gave up KISS a while back in this one

My answers in blue...

[no rose colored glasses]

Keep it simple, is my moto. So simple, that no one can believe that one person can do this. Yes one person can plan and plot. JMO

Definitely one person can plan and plot, but we have no idea at all if this is what happened in this case. We really don't know a whole lot so I guess that I will wait and see if Terri, Terri and another person, or somebody else gets charged.

[Rob]

Keep it simple, is my moto. So simple, that no one can believe that one person can do this. Yes one person can plan and plot. JMO

trying to follow you here. Are you saying that it's so simple that Terri planned and plotted so successfully that she has fooled everyone?

she left no electronic records - i.e.; no computer records, no text records, no cell records, and no forensic evidence that would incriminate her?

That doesn't sound simple to me, but rather stunningly complex and hence - no arrest.

How can it be both - simple yet planned to perfection?

 - just trying to follow along here.

[Goatwhisperer]

Keep it simple, is my moto. So simple, that no one can believe that one person can do this. Yes one person can plan and plot. JMO

trying to follow you here. Are you saying that it's so simple that Terri planned and plotted so successfully that she has fooled everyone?

she left no electronic records - i.e.; no computer records, no text records, no cell records, and no forensic evidence that would incriminate her?


That doesn't sound simple to me, but rather stunningly complex and hence - no arrest.

How can it be both - simple yet planned to perfection?

 - just trying to follow along here.

IF and if it was so simple. so simple. get my point, LE would have had a conviction..Simplicity has muddie up the waters: all the lies. so simplicity is now complex