Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[Puzzler]

I personally in my heart, think DS, the landscaper, mowing the lawn... should be excluded.. not a person of interest. He just happened to be there. Poor guy. Name being throw around.

Your probably right, but he was there and IIRC he mentioned the kids out looking at the garden with NO teacher, and to me anyone at the school that was gone the time Kyron disappeared should be investigated. I'm sure LE has by now, but I have always been curious about him and the time he left after mowing, did that conincide close to the timeline when they think Kyron disappeared?

Island.. give this guy a break. He just happened to be there that day, and unbeknowst to him,. came forward, and didn't even know what happened. I feel so sorry for him, and I think this should end with his name being said on this.. enuf said, OMO, JMO.

I agree that "everyone" there that morning deserves to be looked at to some varying degree.  Stenson would be looked at more closely than a parent who dropped their child off at school.  But, the way I understand it, all those folks have been intereviewed by LE (some maybe more than once) and that the Grand Jury has talked to many of them.  That Stenson came forward was good; he let us know that where LE had thought a white truck had been parked (access road) was not the case.  That he has testified in the GJ is good.  IMO, it's doubtful that he had anything to do with Kyron going missing; HOWEVER, we "don't" know the facts that LE has found in their investigation.  LE obviously isn't going after Stenson (that we know of) and I think it's doubtful that he would have any connection with Terri.  But all of that doesn't negate that there is a lot of interest around the GK and makes him a topic of interest. 

[monchichi]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

I think that if she did something with Kyron, she thought the receipt would cover her.  Maybe she didn't think they would care about the rest of the day because she had evidence that she'd gone to FM right after she "dropped him off".  She then had to come up with something to fill in that time frame.  MOO.

PS  I know this has been discussed before, but I still don't believe someone would drive around with a fussy baby, and then, when that baby did not go to sleep they would then take the fussy baby to the gym daycare for an hour.  Sorry, I think most people would just take the baby home and try to make her comfortable.

Also, if she was guilty, she couldn't come up with an iron-clad alibi because all she could have said would be she was with the baby.  She wouldn't be able to come up with a better alibi because she would need to have witnesses.  Her options would only be "I drove the baby around" or "I went home with the baby".  MOO.

First off, people drive fussy babies around everyday and do not kill a child. Perhaps Kiara calmed down enough to take her to the gym. I don't see that as being hinky, I just don't.
 Now as for the aliby. She sets herself up with her aliby by not having an alibi. She was miles away from Sauvie why did she go back there to only dump Kyron when there are miles and miles of wooded area she could have taken him to? but she choose to take Kyron to an area where people are at? To me it doesn't look like that remote of an area. I think it is easier for me to consider she didn't drop Kyron off at Sauvie and she dumped him in the area between the store and the school. Then she drives Kiara around to not calm the baby but to calm herself. That I can see happening, although I am not putting money down on the plan as we know it. To me it doesn't make sense and is too risky.

I did not say that driving the baby around was linked to disappearing Kyron.

I think it would be impossible to be guilty and give yourself a solid alibi

I don't necessarily believe she "dumped" him anywhere...

and there are remote areas on Sauvie Island.

I agree the whole thing was risky (for anyone that might try to take a child), it only takes one witness.

[Puzzler]

I personally in my heart, think DS, the landscaper, mowing the lawn... should be excluded.. not a person of interest. He just happened to be there. Poor guy. Name being throw around.

Your probably right, but he was there and IIRC he mentioned the kids out looking at the garden with NO teacher, and to me anyone at the school that was gone the time Kyron disappeared should be investigated. I'm sure LE has by now, but I have always been curious about him and the time he left after mowing, did that conincide close to the timeline when they think Kyron disappeared?

Island.. give this guy a break. He just happened to be there that day, and unbeknowst to him,. came forward, and didn't even know what happened. I feel so sorry for him, and I think this should end with his name being said on this.. enuf said, OMO, JMO.

I must admit I am curious what investigative tools you have used to exclude Stetson. He came forward? wasn't it like months later and didn't he change his story? Or do I have that incorrect?

I guess, in my humble opinion, with all the talk of Terri having an accomplice and the very fact that Kyron was last seen at the school - and Terri appears to have a timeline that is rather tight - wouldn't it make sense that the accomplice was AT the school also?

So, you have teachers, parents, school admins, the landscaper / groundskeeper - and the accomplice who no one to date have been able to identify.

I guess I am having a hard time understanding how this person / accomplice went about this abduction completely unnoticed.

Grand Jury has talked to many people, LE has talked to many people - if there was any credible witness statement to the point the "I saw Kyron leave the school with so-and-so" - I really believe that kind of information would have leaked to the public by now.  What happened?  Did Kyron vanish into the air?  Someone (LE of course, but others, too) must know something, because Blink says that Kyron did not leave the school with Terri. 

Klaas made an interesting point in a post upthread...that she thinks Terri is responsible but may have had some help afterwards.
So, if that's the way it happened (and Terri wasn't the one to take Kyron from the school), then "who" took Kyron away from the school?  Is this where the thought of a third person comes in?

[Puzzler]

GoatWhisperer - I'm going to call you GW from now on ok?

GW - I just hope the grand jury has either already handed down sealed indictments or they are ready to indict.  The longer it goes on the more speculative people are getting.  Kyron deserves justice.

I hope the DA has the paperwork ready....but needing only a few more details to be settled....to "execute the documents". 

Klaas, in an earlier post you commented that you thought Terri was responsible but maybe with help afterwards.  I hadn't thought of it that way...since Blink said Kyron didn't leave with Terri...anyway, do you have any thoughts by what means Kyron left the school?

[Puzzler]

If Mr Stetson is completely honest in his account and I'm not saying that he isn't - he said that he saw kids in the outside area near a garden if I recall correctly - he WAS outside and yet he doesn't this the abductor / accomplice?

Wouldn't he possibly have a clear view of several doors during the time that this horrible event occurred? I guess it's entirely possible that he was preoccupied with his ground's keeping and didn't notice - but other than saying he saw children outside near a garden unattended - what could he possibly say to a grand jury?

One other point - wouldn't it be easier to abduct a child that was outside unattended then a child that allegedly never left the building? If you consider that someone would have to chance a sighting - by multiple people - in order to get into the building and abduct Kyron - seems to me one of the children who were outside would be an easier target -

unless of course - the person was in the school before Kyron arrived...

Something else Stenson might have told the GJ was that he saw no truck parked on the access road in the timeframe that LE was interested in.  There was a thought that maybe Terri parked her truck on the access road.  Stenson came forward the day after one of the LE pressers to say that he was at the school during that timeframe and there was no vehicle parked on that access road.

[Puzzler]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Rob, you must have been reading my mind. Terri's silence has made me believe that she must be involved, but all of her other problems, ie: the boozing, her immature friends, etc, have me wondering, how the heck she could have done this all by herself. I just cannot give her that much credit. In my opinion, she had to have had help. Someone emotionally or financially invested that was alot more cunning and clever than she is.

How could someone with an such an alcoholic problem as Terri is supposed to have be able to do all this planning?  Wouldn't you need a clear head for any substantial planning?

Alcoholic's are consumed with figuring out how to get their next drink, how to hide it, how to keep their stories straight, making sure there's plenty of booze before the package store closes, or plenty of booze to carry them through the weekend; alcoholism is an all-consuming disease. 

So, if Terri is a passing-out drunk several nights a week, it seems more likely that she had an accomplice. 

If Terri did this alone, it's doubtful that she had any serious drinking problem around June 2010.  You'd have to be really clear-headed to make such a master plan, carry out your chores and not be arrested in nearly 6 months time...very clever kidnapping. 

I think LE has plenty of evidence but Stanton told us in a presser that they needed "concrete" evidence.  Hopefully, they will soon have that. 

[Puzzler]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school? Yes, if I had the victim in my vehicle I'd never run errands, I'd get rid of them ASAP...this is why I go with accomplice

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. EXACTLY, I would never risk taking someone to an area that had so many witnesses just to take them out of the area, I'd just run the car off the road etc., you know many other choices   If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. OMG~I just posted about that on FB, I wouldn't think a passing out drunk could pull it off so neatly with no trail, NOR keep quiet about it, I thought drunks talked alot.. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels. 

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out. Again, ITA....in that situation with the child at school, I think under KISS a SO or crime of opportunity, but I gave up KISS a while back in this one

My answers in blue...

Drunks are sloppy.

[Puzzler]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

TG - that point is one I've mulled over several times...if Terri planned the trips to Freddys and the gym as alibis...why, then, wouldn't she plan the rest of the time, too?

 

[Puzzler]

I still think TH sent James away either because:

1. She may not have wanted him to be a witness/or it was easier to plan without him around

or

2. She was afraid of someone and didn't want him around for his own safety

MOO.

I don't buy that it had anything to do with how he was doing in school or his relationship with either Kaine or Terri.  Again, MOO.

What ever the reason was, it was a good decision because Jame apparently is doing better. So Terri made a good decision to send James away. So did she just get lucky? Who knows, but for James it seems to have worked out.

Agree. It's one tiny bit of something good in all this tragedy - James' grades are up, he's enjoying the horses and he's happy.

[monchichi]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

TG - that point is one I've mulled over several times...if Terri planned the trips to Freddys and the gym as alibis...why, then, wouldn't she plan the rest of the time, too?

 

The fact that she didn't have a plan for the missing time does not prove she is innocent of planning the rest of it.  It would be hard to have an alibi if she actually was somewhere else for the missing time.

[Puzzler]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

I think that if she did something with Kyron, she thought the receipt would cover her.  Maybe she didn't think they would care about the rest of the day because she had evidence that she'd gone to FM right after she "dropped him off".  She then had to come up with something to fill in that time frame.  MOO.

PS  I know this has been discussed before, but I still don't believe someone would drive around with a fussy baby, and then, when that baby did not go to sleep they would then take the fussy baby to the gym daycare for an hour.  Sorry, I think most people would just take the baby home and try to make her comfortable.

Also, if she was guilty, she couldn't come up with an iron-clad alibi because all she could have said would be she was with the baby.  She wouldn't be able to come up with a better alibi because she would need to have witnesses.  Her options would only be "I drove the baby around" or "I went home with the baby".  MOO.

First off, people drive fussy babies around everyday and do not kill a child. Perhaps Kiara calmed down enough to take her to the gym. I don't see that as being hinky, I just don't.
 Now as for the aliby. She sets herself up with her aliby by not having an alibi. She was miles away from Sauvie why did she go back there to only dump Kyron when there are miles and miles of wooded area she could have taken him to? but she choose to take Kyron to an area where people are at? To me it doesn't look like that remote of an area. I think it is easier for me to consider she didn't drop Kyron off at Sauvie and she dumped him in the area between the store and the school. Then she drives Kiara around to not calm the baby but to calm herself. That I can see happening, although I am not putting money down on the plan as we know it. To me it doesn't make sense and is too risky.

Perhaps Terri did get the medicine for Kiara, gave it to her, and drove her around waiting for the medicine to take effect and Kiara to settle down and maybe go to sleep...then Terri decided it was okay to go to the gym.  Fussy baby without medicine, hopefully, was helped with her ear ache once she got the medicine.

[Puzzler]

Actually, I was just making the point that one F-250 looks like another and especially from a distance. Tyler could have thought he saw Kaine's F-250 when in fact it was Stetson's.

Also, I don't know that Stetson is not involved - how could anyone? There has been no forensic evidence located in Kaine's F-250 - so, logic tells me that evidence is somewhere. Obviously the police have been unable to locate it also. So, absent evidence, of which there is none to my knowledge, everyone is suspicious. How could anyone possibly be excluded? Anyone who was at that school that morning is suspicious.

Stetson has one component - he WAS there. I don't know if he goes any higher than that.

You're right and I went back and checked and he was parked in the lot that day so I agree Tyler could have thought this was Kaine's truck. ITA about everyone being suspicious, but I included info about him also to show 2 white Ford pick ups and how someone could have thought one was the other, also IIRC a student thought they saw Kyron in the parking lot next to a white Ford p/u So, we have that student, Tanner P talking about seeing Kyron when he was going to lool at the cool electric one and now Tanner saying he saw Kyron in the gym.

Wouldn't GK Stenson's truck have a "trailer" on it...to haul his tractor/mower?

I would assume it did that day as it did the day the news took video of him. I am not sure it is the same truck the one student reported seeing. You know white is the #1 color for a ford truck? There are thousands of them and I am sure more then just a few are in the portland area.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking...there could have been 3 or 4 white trucks at the school during the course of the morning.

[islandmonkey]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school? Yes, if I had the victim in my vehicle I'd never run errands, I'd get rid of them ASAP...this is why I go with accomplice

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. EXACTLY, I would never risk taking someone to an area that had so many witnesses just to take them out of the area, I'd just run the car off the road etc., you know many other choices   If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. OMG~I just posted about that on FB, I wouldn't think a passing out drunk could pull it off so neatly with no trail, NOR keep quiet about it, I thought drunks talked alot.. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels. 

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out. Again, ITA....in that situation with the child at school, I think under KISS a SO or crime of opportunity, but I gave up KISS a while back in this one

My answers in blue...

Drunks are sloppy.

Totally agree, brother is one and he couldn't plan getting out of a wet paper sack without help (but he's been one for 20 yrs so his planning, critical thinking skills leave alot to be desired.

[monchichi]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

I think that if she did something with Kyron, she thought the receipt would cover her.  Maybe she didn't think they would care about the rest of the day because she had evidence that she'd gone to FM right after she "dropped him off".  She then had to come up with something to fill in that time frame.  MOO.

PS  I know this has been discussed before, but I still don't believe someone would drive around with a fussy baby, and then, when that baby did not go to sleep they would then take the fussy baby to the gym daycare for an hour.  Sorry, I think most people would just take the baby home and try to make her comfortable.

Also, if she was guilty, she couldn't come up with an iron-clad alibi because all she could have said would be she was with the baby.  She wouldn't be able to come up with a better alibi because she would need to have witnesses.  Her options would only be "I drove the baby around" or "I went home with the baby".  MOO.

First off, people drive fussy babies around everyday and do not kill a child. Perhaps Kiara calmed down enough to take her to the gym. I don't see that as being hinky, I just don't.
 Now as for the aliby. She sets herself up with her aliby by not having an alibi. She was miles away from Sauvie why did she go back there to only dump Kyron when there are miles and miles of wooded area she could have taken him to? but she choose to take Kyron to an area where people are at? To me it doesn't look like that remote of an area. I think it is easier for me to consider she didn't drop Kyron off at Sauvie and she dumped him in the area between the store and the school. Then she drives Kiara around to not calm the baby but to calm herself. That I can see happening, although I am not putting money down on the plan as we know it. To me it doesn't make sense and is too risky.

Perhaps Terri did get the medicine for Kiara, gave it to her, and drove her around waiting for the medicine to take effect and Kiara to settle down and maybe go to sleep...then Terri decided it was okay to go to the gym.  Fussy baby without medicine, hopefully, was helped with her ear ache once she got the medicine.

IIRC, the email said she drove around trying to get Kitty to sleep but "No Go, so off to the gym" or something like that.  I am not saying that she didn't do that, just that it does seem hinky to me, and I realize some disagree with me and that is fine. 

[sebastian]

Sebastian Ambers case speaks to me so much. Her case is a classic (and tragic, RIP Chelsea) example of LE making the wrong assumptions. How many times did we have to hear from Ambers parents she was not a child to run away? Then to find out poor Dave, the step dad, the last known person to see Amber, was a strong suspect. They had it all worked out that he was guilty, he was not. For a year John Gardner walked free until he killed again.

It makes me crazy Tracygirl! However, the difference for me is how Dave acted so differently from Terri. Dave cooperated FULLY all of the time. Terri opted to hire an attorney and not speak. I think that is what makes me think that she is somehow involved.

Carrie is an amazing, strong woman and Dave is a class act all the way. Carrie is still helping others and will continue to do so. I was at Ambers 16th birthday celebration. It was very sad but Amber has brought so many people together that will be bonded for life. Amber and Chelsea will never be forgotten!

[sebastian]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

I think that if she did something with Kyron, she thought the receipt would cover her.  Maybe she didn't think they would care about the rest of the day because she had evidence that she'd gone to FM right after she "dropped him off".  She then had to come up with something to fill in that time frame.  MOO.

PS  I know this has been discussed before, but I still don't believe someone would drive around with a fussy baby, and then, when that baby did not go to sleep they would then take the fussy baby to the gym daycare for an hour.  Sorry, I think most people would just take the baby home and try to make her comfortable.

Also, if she was guilty, she couldn't come up with an iron-clad alibi because all she could have said would be she was with the baby.  She wouldn't be able to come up with a better alibi because she would need to have witnesses.  Her options would only be "I drove the baby around" or "I went home with the baby".  MOO.

First off, people drive fussy babies around everyday and do not kill a child. Perhaps Kiara calmed down enough to take her to the gym. I don't see that as being hinky, I just don't.
 Now as for the aliby. She sets herself up with her aliby by not having an alibi. She was miles away from Sauvie why did she go back there to only dump Kyron when there are miles and miles of wooded area she could have taken him to? but she choose to take Kyron to an area where people are at? To me it doesn't look like that remote of an area. I think it is easier for me to consider she didn't drop Kyron off at Sauvie and she dumped him in the area between the store and the school. Then she drives Kiara around to not calm the baby but to calm herself. That I can see happening, although I am not putting money down on the plan as we know it. To me it doesn't make sense and is too risky.

Perhaps Terri did get the medicine for Kiara, gave it to her, and drove her around waiting for the medicine to take effect and Kiara to settle down and maybe go to sleep...then Terri decided it was okay to go to the gym.  Fussy baby without medicine, hopefully, was helped with her ear ache once she got the medicine.

IIRC, the email said she drove around trying to get Kitty to sleep but "No Go, so off to the gym" or something like that.  I am not saying that she didn't do that, just that it does seem hinky to me, and I realize some disagree with me and that is fine. 

It seems hinky to me too. She has to be a diabolical sociopath to harm Kyron, dispose of his body and then flit off to the gym. All with Kiara in tow! I am sure it could happen, but I just don't see Terri as some sort of mastermind. She seems to pick friends that are younger, not very literate and obviously extremely loyal. That tells me that she is very insecure. Add alcohol to that mix and I just don't see her pulling this off alone. I am more inclined to believe that she did not get her hands dirty. I think he was passed on to someone else. I think the person that Kyron was passed on to would have to be someone very smart and someone that Terri looked up to and had complete trust in. I think Terri is much too cocky to have entrusted this task to someone that she feels might give her up. She and DeDe and the rest of that nutty bag of nitwits seem so dang smug that it makes me ill. An innocent child is still missing! Who acts smug under those circumstances? REALLY!

[islandmonkey]

Sebastian Ambers case speaks to me so much. Her case is a classic (and tragic, RIP Chelsea) example of LE making the wrong assumptions. How many times did we have to hear from Ambers parents she was not a child to run away? Then to find out poor Dave, the step dad, the last known person to see Amber, was a strong suspect. They had it all worked out that he was guilty, he was not. For a year John Gardner walked free until he killed again.

It makes me crazy Tracygirl! However, the difference for me is how Dave acted so differently from Terri. Dave cooperated FULLY all of the time. Terri opted to hire an attorney and not speak. I think that is what makes me think that she is somehow involved.   

Carrie is an amazing, strong woman and Dave is a class act all the way. Carrie is still helping others and will continue to do so. I was at Ambers 16th birthday celebration. It was very sad but Amber has brought so many people together that will be bonded for life. Amber and Chelsea will never be forgotten!

So true, BUT I will say this wrt polygraphs......read the case of Riley Fox, not only did the LE tell the father who was the last to see the child that he failed the poly, but they interrogated him so roughly that after 14 hours he confessed and spent time in prison, turns out he was coerced and they never sent his DNA to the lab Yrs later they finally determined it was a SO that didn't even know the family and broke in thru the garage, raped and murdered her. So many cases in Illinois where politics and closing a case was more important than the truth that they developed tunnel vision. So if (and granted it's a stretch) she isn't the perp, how much time has been lost not looking at other possibilities.

[islandmonkey]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

I think that if she did something with Kyron, she thought the receipt would cover her.  Maybe she didn't think they would care about the rest of the day because she had evidence that she'd gone to FM right after she "dropped him off".  She then had to come up with something to fill in that time frame.  MOO.

PS  I know this has been discussed before, but I still don't believe someone would drive around with a fussy baby, and then, when that baby did not go to sleep they would then take the fussy baby to the gym daycare for an hour.  Sorry, I think most people would just take the baby home and try to make her comfortable.

Also, if she was guilty, she couldn't come up with an iron-clad alibi because all she could have said would be she was with the baby.  She wouldn't be able to come up with a better alibi because she would need to have witnesses.  Her options would only be "I drove the baby around" or "I went home with the baby".  MOO.

First off, people drive fussy babies around everyday and do not kill a child. Perhaps Kiara calmed down enough to take her to the gym. I don't see that as being hinky, I just don't.
 Now as for the aliby. She sets herself up with her aliby by not having an alibi. She was miles away from Sauvie why did she go back there to only dump Kyron when there are miles and miles of wooded area she could have taken him to? but she choose to take Kyron to an area where people are at? To me it doesn't look like that remote of an area. I think it is easier for me to consider she didn't drop Kyron off at Sauvie and she dumped him in the area between the store and the school. Then she drives Kiara around to not calm the baby but to calm herself. That I can see happening, although I am not putting money down on the plan as we know it. To me it doesn't make sense and is too risky.

Perhaps Terri did get the medicine for Kiara, gave it to her, and drove her around waiting for the medicine to take effect and Kiara to settle down and maybe go to sleep...then Terri decided it was okay to go to the gym.  Fussy baby without medicine, hopefully, was helped with her ear ache once she got the medicine.

IIRC, the email said she drove around trying to get Kitty to sleep but "No Go, so off to the gym" or something like that.  I am not saying that she didn't do that, just that it does seem hinky to me, and I realize some disagree with me and that is fine. 

It seems hinky to me too. She has to be a diabolical sociopath to harm Kyron, dispose of his body and then flit off to the gym. All with Kiara in tow! I am sure it could happen, but I just don't see Terri as some sort of mastermind. She seems to pick friends that are younger, not very literate and obviously extremely loyal. That tells me that she is very insecure. Add alcohol to that mix and I just don't see her pulling this off alone. I am more inclined to believe that she did not get her hands dirty. I think he was passed on to someone else. I think the person that Kyron was passed on to would have to be someone very smart and someone that Terri looked up to and had complete trust in. I think Terri is much too cocky to have entrusted this task to someone that she feels might give her up. She and DeDe and the rest of that nutty bag of nitwits seem so dang smug that it makes me ill. An innocent child is still missing! Who acts smug under those circumstances? REALLY!

Very hinky to me also, but what makes me think she is guilty is the fact she isn't trying to see Kiara......that is completely unnatural, now maybe it's some play by Houze but nevertheless I'd be screaming crazy like a rabid dog to see my child

[sebastian]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

I think that if she did something with Kyron, she thought the receipt would cover her.  Maybe she didn't think they would care about the rest of the day because she had evidence that she'd gone to FM right after she "dropped him off".  She then had to come up with something to fill in that time frame.  MOO.

PS  I know this has been discussed before, but I still don't believe someone would drive around with a fussy baby, and then, when that baby did not go to sleep they would then take the fussy baby to the gym daycare for an hour.  Sorry, I think most people would just take the baby home and try to make her comfortable.

Also, if she was guilty, she couldn't come up with an iron-clad alibi because all she could have said would be she was with the baby.  She wouldn't be able to come up with a better alibi because she would need to have witnesses.  Her options would only be "I drove the baby around" or "I went home with the baby".  MOO.

First off, people drive fussy babies around everyday and do not kill a child. Perhaps Kiara calmed down enough to take her to the gym. I don't see that as being hinky, I just don't.
 Now as for the aliby. She sets herself up with her aliby by not having an alibi. She was miles away from Sauvie why did she go back there to only dump Kyron when there are miles and miles of wooded area she could have taken him to? but she choose to take Kyron to an area where people are at? To me it doesn't look like that remote of an area. I think it is easier for me to consider she didn't drop Kyron off at Sauvie and she dumped him in the area between the store and the school. Then she drives Kiara around to not calm the baby but to calm herself. That I can see happening, although I am not putting money down on the plan as we know it. To me it doesn't make sense and is too risky.

Perhaps Terri did get the medicine for Kiara, gave it to her, and drove her around waiting for the medicine to take effect and Kiara to settle down and maybe go to sleep...then Terri decided it was okay to go to the gym.  Fussy baby without medicine, hopefully, was helped with her ear ache once she got the medicine.

IIRC, the email said she drove around trying to get Kitty to sleep but "No Go, so off to the gym" or something like that.  I am not saying that she didn't do that, just that it does seem hinky to me, and I realize some disagree with me and that is fine. 

It seems hinky to me too. She has to be a diabolical sociopath to harm Kyron, dispose of his body and then flit off to the gym. All with Kiara in tow! I am sure it could happen, but I just don't see Terri as some sort of mastermind. She seems to pick friends that are younger, not very literate and obviously extremely loyal. That tells me that she is very insecure. Add alcohol to that mix and I just don't see her pulling this off alone. I am more inclined to believe that she did not get her hands dirty. I think he was passed on to someone else. I think the person that Kyron was passed on to would have to be someone very smart and someone that Terri looked up to and had complete trust in. I think Terri is much too cocky to have entrusted this task to someone that she feels might give her up. She and DeDe and the rest of that nutty bag of nitwits seem so dang smug that it makes me ill. An innocent child is still missing! Who acts smug under those circumstances? REALLY!

Very hinky to me also, but what makes me think she is guilty is the fact she isn't trying to see Kiara......that is completely unnatural, now maybe it's some play by Houze but nevertheless I'd be screaming crazy like a rabid dog to see my child

Exactly Islandmonkey! Especially at Kiara's age! They are so young and vulnerable. I would be going completely insane! I could not even go somewhere overnight when my daughter was that age unless she was with me. Can you imagine all of this time? It sure makes you think she has ice in those veins!

[islandmonkey]

Sebastian~replying without the monster reply Yes it does, I never spent a night away from my son until he was 8yrs old I just can't imagine this action or really nonaction on her part.