Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[MuffyBee]

I really don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about dropping off children early before school but....

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mamadrama/entries/2010/11/11/school_warns_parents_to_stop_e.html?cxntfid=blogs_mama_drama
School warns parents to stop early drop offs
November 11, 2010

[sebastian]

I really don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about dropping off children early before school but....

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mamadrama/entries/2010/11/11/school_warns_parents_to_stop_e.html?cxntfid=blogs_mama_drama
School warns parents to stop early drop offs
November 11, 2010

Wow Muffybee! Parents dropping 5 year olds off at school 30 minutes before anyone is on campus! UGH!

[islandmonkey]

I really don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about dropping off children early before school but....

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mamadrama/entries/2010/11/11/school_warns_parents_to_stop_e.html?cxntfid=blogs_mama_drama
School warns parents to stop early drop offs
November 11, 2010

I am shocked 5 yr olds were dropped of that early.....a five yr old shouldn't be there early period but 30 minutes early? d@mn I think I would have called CPS on these parents. I dropped of my 5th grader at 7:25 when they aren't supposed to be there until 7:30, but the principal was there, and a few teachers and another child and I still felt like chit (mommy guilt), but the scenarios you just posted scream neglect and a lack of even a remote drop of common sense 

[Tracygirl]

See, I have a problem with this.

Is it considered suspicious to drop your children off at school?  How about putting them on the bus?   

When my girls were young we did both. And have to tell you, once they were inside school, the thought of one of them disappearing never crossed my mind, but then that was a lot of years ago. I would have thought nothing about not walking either of them to their classroom, if the three of us were in the school and I had to leave, I'm sorry wouldn't have thought to escort them to the classrooms.

I totally agree.  The school is legally liable for our children once they reach school grounds, I believe.  (Or, are on the bus.)

I am a VERY cautious parent but was ACTIVELY discouraged from escorting my daughter to the classroom back in kindergarten (her teacher was a b**tch about it -- I actually changed schools because of it)  On the other hand, the school that I switched to had teachers and the principal waiting out front in the morning, greeting the kids as they arrived, so I felt very safe dropping her off, and placing them in their hands.

IMO it's ridiculous to criticize a person's parenting skills or motives when they do nothing more than their job as parents by guiding their children to school (in whatever form:  bus, car, etc.) and then trust that the school will shoulder the responsibility of their care until they return safely home or are picked up by a parent or guardian.

And, at least in Oregon, that's the law.  This is why our local high school gets so nervous when kids leave campus at lunch.  I have interviewed the superintendent about this, in the past.  He told me, "We are liable for your children, from the minute they arrive..."

 

I couldn't agree more about criticizing a person's parenting skills or motives when it comes to getting the kids to school. The school is liable for the kids, period.

It is within the federal educational law that the school is responsible for the child once they enter the school property for the day or get on the bus, some states have taken it further by saying the school is responsible once they leave the home if they walk to school. This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of law. Truth is, the school was responsible for Kyron because it was a school sponsored event. The person that took him is ultimately responsible, but they should have never been able to do it in the first place. There is a big lesson here for all the schools in our country, whether if they are big or small, they need to put every safeguard in place, without the consideration of cost, to ensure the safety of students.

[Green Eyes]

I really don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about dropping off children early before school but....

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mamadrama/entries/2010/11/11/school_warns_parents_to_stop_e.html?cxntfid=blogs_mama_drama
School warns parents to stop early drop offs
November 11, 2010

I am shocked 5 yr olds were dropped of that early.....a five yr old shouldn't be there early period but 30 minutes early? d@mn I think I would have called CPS on these parents. I dropped of my 5th grader at 7:25 when they aren't supposed to be there until 7:30, but the principal was there, and a few teachers and another child and I still felt like chit (mommy guilt), but the scenarios you just posted scream neglect and a lack of even a remote drop of common sense 

I have had parents drop off their children at school early even after they have been warned what would happen. We even had a before school program for the parents that had to be to work early. They had to walk the children to the class and sign them in. These parents couldn't even do that. Until we told them next time we would have to by state law call the police. Most would comply then but only after the we told them. Even had parents drop their children off when there was no school.  Thank God some of us were at school and called the parents at work and told them to come pick up their children.  Some parents just don't get it.

[Tracygirl]

Do we know what has happened to the MFH plot? Has that been validated as the truth? The problem I have with that whole thing is, the person she asked must have been the type of person that would kill someone or why ask, you know? I am not sure if I would believe that person or not, my gut tells me, not to. Also, there had been some problems with that one man in the past, the one she called the police on, is that the same person who said she wanted to hire him to kill her husband? I know the police told Kaine about the MFH plot, but don't they also have an obligation to do that, especially under the circumstances?

[klaasend]

Do we know what has happened to the MFH plot? Has that been validated as the truth? The problem I have with that whole thing is, the person she asked must have been the type of person that would kill someone or why ask, you know? I am not sure if I would believe that person or not, my gut tells me, not to. Also, there had been some problems with that one man in the past, the one she called the police on, is that the same person who said she wanted to hire him to kill her husband? I know the police told Kaine about the MFH plot, but don't they also have an obligation to do that, especially under the circumstances?

Don't you believe LE thought the MFH plot to be a real danger to Kaine?  I do and I don't think they are basing it solely on the testimony of a landscaper.

[Tracygirl]

I really don't want to derail this thread with a discussion about dropping off children early before school but....

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/mamadrama/entries/2010/11/11/school_warns_parents_to_stop_e.html?cxntfid=blogs_mama_drama
School warns parents to stop early drop offs
November 11, 2010

Don't these parents panic at the thought of their 5 year old out there alone with nobody watching them? I don't think I could have done that and drove away. The thought of it makes my stomach go into knots. To be honest, I walked home from school, I can't imagine allowing my children to do that. I see young kids, little ones everyday walking alone, crossing railroad tracks and major streets and I think to myself, not why a parent does that, but how they can do that. Not a little kid, not alone...it is too scary to think about.

[Tracygirl]

Do we know what has happened to the MFH plot? Has that been validated as the truth? The problem I have with that whole thing is, the person she asked must have been the type of person that would kill someone or why ask, you know? I am not sure if I would believe that person or not, my gut tells me, not to. Also, there had been some problems with that one man in the past, the one she called the police on, is that the same person who said she wanted to hire him to kill her husband? I know the police told Kaine about the MFH plot, but don't they also have an obligation to do that, especially under the circumstances?

Don't you believe LE thought the MFH plot to be a real danger to Kaine?  I do and I don't think they are basing it solely on the testimony of a landscaper.

I think they were not sure and had an obligation to inform Kaine of it given the circumstances at the time. I am waiting to hear if it was validated before I rush to judgement or believe it actually happened. Not saying it didn't just that I have not read anything from LE confirming or validating it.  She has not been charged with it either. 

[no rose colored glasses]

I think that might be a very hard thing to prosecute, it would be a he said, she said, unless the police have some very solid evidence about the murder for hire.

[klaasend]

I think that might be a very hard thing to prosecute, it would be a he said, she said, unless the police have some very solid evidence about the murder for hire.

Like electronic communication?

[Tracygirl]

I think that might be a very hard thing to prosecute, it would be a he said, she said, unless the police have some very solid evidence about the murder for hire.

Like electronic communication?

It is my opinion only that if they had something concrete regarding the MFH, Terri would have been arrested. Perhaps I am wrong, who knows really. This whole MFH thing is interesting to consider. If true, why did Terri want this done? Why was Terri trying to send her son and step son away, have her husband killed? Why did she want to hire someone to kill kaine? If it is believed she is crazy enough to kill a child which would be the toughest of all murders I would think, then why didn't she just kill Kaine herself? Why hire somebody to do this? If she wanted away from Kyron and Kaine wouldn't allow for it, then why not leave or why if you are going to kill anyone, why not Kaine? (not that I want to see Kaine killed, I am just saying).
There are just too many holes for me I think. I am comfortable on my fence I guess.

[no rose colored glasses]

I think that might be a very hard thing to prosecute, it would be a he said, she said, unless the police have some very solid evidence about the murder for hire.

Like electronic communication?

I would have no idea what kind of hard evidence. I'm guessing they don't have it, or Terri would have been charged with the murder for hire plot by now, at least I would think so.

[monchichi]

It is within the federal educational law that the school is responsible for the child once they enter the school property for the day or get on the bus, some states have taken it further by saying the school is responsible once they leave the home if they walk to school. This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of law. Truth is, the school was responsible for Kyron because it was a school sponsored event. The person that took him is ultimately responsible, but they should have never been able to do it in the first place. There is a big lesson here for all the schools in our country, whether if they are big or small, they need to put every safeguard in place, without the consideration of cost, to ensure the safety of students.

I fail to see how the school could possibly be responsible for students that walk to school from the moment they leave their house.  Should the school provide a personal escort for every walker?  Why are parents relieved of any responsibility for their children?

If we feel that there is enough danger to expect schools to have video cameras in the schools (which I think would be great!), why don't we as parents take responsibility for making sure the kids make it safely to the school/classroom?

[MuffyBee]

I think if LE does in fact have some evidence in the MFH plot, Terri hasn't been arrested because they are after something much bigger. The priority would be finding Kyron, not so much arresting Terri on  MFH charges, especially since she isn't an immediate threat to Kaine.  Any MFH charges could be brought later.  I think right now the focus is on finding Kyron, and perhaps having Terri on the outside of jail is better for LE's purposes.  I also believe LE is keeping tabs on Terri, therefore arresting her and jailing her isn't a priority right now.  Is the MFH plot part of an active investigation, which would include Kyron's disappearance?  Could arresting Terri at this time on a MHF charge jeopardize Kyron's case?  Kyron's disappearance is an active investigation, and I don't know how much the MFH and etc. are interwoven with it.  Just some thoughts...and of course JMHO.

[Kokos Cat]

 

What I don't understand, either, regarding the MFH:  during the divorce hearing, why wasn't it at least used against her at that time?  I guess the prosecution could be saving it for the criminal trial... BUT I don't really get that either.  It seems to me it's something they could use now (or could have used back then) to get her in jail. 

With all due respect, we all want to trust LE.  Personally, the thing I find most terrifying is to lose a child.  The next scariest thing on my agenda:  not being able to trust the authorities to help me (a.) get that child back, dead or alive.  (b.) prosecute the guilty party to the full extent of the law.

Oh, there is one other thing that I could add to this list of scary chit:  Having LE insinuate themselves in the case in the wrong direction to the point of taking a remaining child from me.  That's some scary chit.  Just sayin'.   This is what scares me, causing me to live up to my Scared Monkey status.   

I'm not saying that's what's going on here.  I'm just saying that it's a terrifying situation to consider.  And, I consider anything is possible at this point, almost 6 months out.   Poor Kyron.   

[hellokitty]

 

Look at the recent bomb case in Portland where LE as working with the would be bomber?

Why didn't they arrest him when they heard about the plot?

I think this case so clearly shows what would be involved with the MFH.  Just because she has not been arrested means nothing.

[Kokos Cat]

It is within the federal educational law that the school is responsible for the child once they enter the school property for the day or get on the bus, some states have taken it further by saying the school is responsible once they leave the home if they walk to school. This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of law. Truth is, the school was responsible for Kyron because it was a school sponsored event. The person that took him is ultimately responsible, but they should have never been able to do it in the first place. There is a big lesson here for all the schools in our country, whether if they are big or small, they need to put every safeguard in place, without the consideration of cost, to ensure the safety of students.

I fail to see how the school could possibly be responsible for students that walk to school from the moment they leave their house.  Should the school provide a personal escort for every walker?  Why are parents relieved of any responsibility for their children?

If we feel that there is enough danger to expect schools to have video cameras in the schools (which I think would be great!), why don't we as parents take responsibility for making sure the kids make it safely to the school/classroom?

Well, IMO, unfortunately many parents aren't qualified for the job.  I remember after I had my daughter, I was so overwhelmed by my lack of experience, I couldn't believe the hospital just let me walk out with her!  I felt like I needed a license or a degree or SOMETHING.  LOL.  However, many parents feel entitled to their children, as if they are possessions, not people.  And, they don't take care of their "things", IMO.   
 
Anyway, it's the law.  It's not a matter of opinion, thanks be to Gawd.   

That being said, with the world as it is today, the school needs to be held accountable for all our children's safety.  And, they will cut corners because they are underfunded.  Personally, I think bus service should always be a required service for children under a certain age, unless MAYBE ? they live a block or less from the school.  I don't believe it is safe for young children to walk to school anymore, IMO.  I still take my daughter to school (and wait as until she enters the school before I drive off) and she is a SENIOR in hs.  I know, it's probably not healthy to be as protective as I am.  Still, it's my perogative.  I'm not comfortable with anything less.  But... I see young children walking everyday past some less than savory houses, and I'm afraid for them.  Sometimes I pull over and watch out for them!  But most parents don't have this privilidge or this much time on their hands. 

IMO, schools need to upgrade their safety measures for "walkers" but I'm probably dreaming here.  Hearing that some schools have taken on this responsibility, lightens my heart.     Now, back to Kyron...

[no rose colored glasses]

Look at the recent bomb case in Portland where LE as working with the would be bomber?

Why didn't they arrest him when they heard about the plot?

I think this case so clearly shows what would be involved with the MFH.  Just because she has not been arrested means nothing.

That may very well be. But comparing a potential terrorist attack to this case, just seems like no comparison IMO.

[Kokos Cat]

 

Hello, Kitty!
I will have to research this info, it's a very interesting idea. Thanks.
 I just don't know.