Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[Puzzler]

Concerning the gym, I am not that bothered that they went to the gym.  I'm sure they had their cell phones with them at every second. When I went through something horrible I was told by my counselor and by others to make a point to get some physical exercise because it relieves anxiety and depression.  When my husband asked for a divorce, and then moved out, I spent time at the gym simply because I couldn't stand to be in the house because of the absence of my 'husband'.  I was dangerously depressed and that's when I was given the advice to get out and get the body's natural endorphines (and also because it would help with the sleeplessness).  I don't think I could sit in the house all day waiting for an answer I'm not likely to get if I were misssing my baby - it would literally drive me over the edge.  I wouldn't be much good helping with anything as far as searching goes then.

That being said, what DID bother me about the gym is THAT is what Terri blogged about on her myspace or facebook or whatever she was using the first day or so.  The fact that they went to the gym, not so much.

Totally agree with you on the gym.  Just don't understand why it's so bothersome that Terri was on the computer.  That's what she did...use the computer a lot...much like the posters her on SM.  We're on the computer a lot.  Maybe you wouldn't have gone to the computer, maybe I wouldn't have gone to the computer....but what's wrong with Terri going to the computer?  Maybe she was asked to be on the computer...looking for emails about Kyron, ordering T-shirts and bracelets, getting billboard signs up, looking to see if anyone one (a craz-o) is posting anything on the websites about Kyron, etc.  What's so wrong with that? 

BBM

I would not be on the computer Saturday complaining to friends that LE had interviewed me more then once..when my stepson was reported missing less then 24 hours ago.  I would be busy talking with my husband, LE , Tony, Desiree, my family..trying to figure out what happened.  I would not be on the internet complaining to a friend about LE questioning me.

Sorry..that is just incomprehensible to me.  As far as ordering the t shirts and bracelets, organizing the donations of food , etc for searchers....she did not do that..her friends did..reread her her Facebook..she passed all of that on to them.  Which is the norm..no harm there.

Gypsy - TY

Now that you've said so, I take you at your word and I understand that "you" wouldn't be on the computer talking to your friends, so I "guessing" that's why it makes it bothersome to you that Terri was on the computer.   

I don't "do" Facebook.  Too much for me to keep up with as it is.   

I don't know what I would have been doing...I know I wouldn't be on Facebook.  I don't want to get into the mode of defending Terri.  I don't know her at all, so IMO I can't defend her.  I don't know facts about what happened in that household during those first 24 hours, so I cannot make any judgement as to "why" anyone did what they did.  Since I don't know the people and wasn't in the house during those hours, I feel I cannot make any judgement on why/what anyone did.

Also, because Terri is the one that LE is looking at so strongly, Terri is the one we know the most about.  I am NOT advocating checking out anyother person that was there those first 24 hours; however, there might be additional questionable actions by others if we knew as much about them.  Just sayin'...

At this point, I don't want to know.  I just want Kyron found and the guilty person(s) to be brought to justice.  I don't care who the guilty person is...just that she/he/them be brought to justice. 

There is "something" very convoluted about this case.  GJ has had hundreds of people come before them in this case and still no indictment.  Hopefully, an indictment will eventually happen; however, the best I can gleen from all of this is that the GJ is talking to so many people to try to close in on a suspect.  Obviously, the GJ has not gotten a clear picture who that suspect is at this juncture.

IMO, there's "more" involved.  I do think Terri is involved, but IMO this is not a clean-cut case and it indicates to me that more people are involved.
The more people involved the bigger the story.  I don't think this is simply a case of step-mom not liking step-son (could be a "piece" of the reason but not "the" reason - anyway - that's the way I see it today)

[Monkey King]

TracyGirl-
That's what I was thinking- if their money was seperate, how was Terri spending it?

[Gypsy DD]

Kaine says Terri kept alhcolism hidden.  Slow build up over time.

Finances managed separately from each other, with that set up he didn't see everything.

Kaine never answered the question by Jane about passing-out drunk.  All Kaine said was Terri kept it hidden.

How can a person be passing-out drunk several nights a week AND have kept it hidden?

Separate accounts? So she must have been making money from someplace. I thought he said she was spending all of his money? Maybe she had access to his account?
So Terri was stumbling, had slurred speech, passing out drunk on the couch while, the baby played alone, (wondering where Kyron was) and he didn't notice. I think that probably describes it a bit better. I think Kaine is trying to avoid being charged with child endangerment or what did they call it, failure to protect?

Really

I think you have forgotten one important fact...Kaine was an advocate of counseling for the family and each of them.

Terri was seeing a counselor and doctor..she told Kaine she was..for PPD.

Kaine and Terri were in counseling for their marriage..he said that.

When Kyron was admitted to school a year early for his birthdate..he met with counselor and psychiatrist.

When Kyron expressed wanting to live with Desiree only...not this past summer but the one prior..when they had just started the half the summer break with Mom the other half with Dad.  That came out in one of the early interviews with Kaine and Desiree.  Kaine said that ater speaking with a counselor they found this was normal for Kyron's age and for the first summer this took place.

So..not only did she fool Kaine, Desiree..and would hope her family...but also the professionals
Kaine was paying to help the family.

So far I think that Kaine did what he could do..at what point is this Terri's responsibility to own up to her feelings and actions?  To some here it seems like Terri was a small child with no accountabilty for her actions, her well being, the well being of the children, her financial life, etc..she was not a child ..she was adult who could have left at anytime she wanted..she did not leave..until she was legally kicked out.

[Tracygirl]

Kaine says Terri kept alhcolism hidden.  Slow build up over time.

Finances managed separately from each other, with that set up he didn't see everything.

Kaine never answered the question by Jane about passing-out drunk.  All Kaine said was Terri kept it hidden.

How can a person be passing-out drunk several nights a week AND have kept it hidden?

Kaine has said that he was told by Terri that she had PPD..that she was also on meds for that..many meds make people sleepy.

He has also said in an interview that until she was gone from the house he didn't know how she hid the drinking.  Then they found soda cans, bottles, etc..hidden everywhere.with booze in them.  That is typical for abusers of alcohol..

He was also told by Terri that Kiara was fussy and teething so she needed to be up at odd times to take care of her..We each think what we have concluded...but many of the questions you raise were answered by Kaine long ago, as the investigation and Terri's behavior has come to light.  That is what makes me believe Kaine..some say he has contridicated himself...when you look back he really hasn't..he has been slowlly realizing what was happening..just my opinion 



 

Also until the jig is up and it is all out in the open (the alcoholism) you cannot smell it - atleast I never could.  Now it's like radar nose - I can smell a drinker from a distance.  They reek.  And they will lie/deny/and hide it forever if they want to.  JMO

I don't know, he is a smart guy, not too young, has been around the block I am sure. For me I think he should have known.

[islandmonkey]

Kaine says Terri kept alhcolism hidden.  Slow build up over time.

Finances managed separately from each other, with that set up he didn't see everything.

Kaine never answered the question by Jane about passing-out drunk.  All Kaine said was Terri kept it hidden.

How can a person be passing-out drunk several nights a week AND have kept it hidden?

Separate accounts? So she must have been making money from someplace. I thought he said she was spending all of his money? Maybe she had access to his account?
So Terri was stumbling, had slurred speech, passing out drunk on the couch while, the baby played alone, (wondering where Kyron was) and he didn't notice. I think that probably describes it a bit better. I think Kaine is trying to avoid being charged with child endangerment or what did they call it, failure to protect?

I think most dept's of LE are sooooo hesitant to make those charges when another child is missing, even when it's a valid charge as in the case of Ron Cummings IMO.....

I think I'd like someone other than Kaine to verify these facts as his can be distorted to how he perceives them (as in when he said he wasn't cheating on Desiree, and she clearly felt he was.......and even in one of the shows last week, he tends to minimize her pain "she's not mad at me etc" when she clearly is very angry and who can blame her).

Interesting tidbit about the seperate finances, so now I do wonder how she was spending his money, also I am somewhat offended by the stmts "she was just a stay home mom".....HELLO, IMO that was the hardest job I had, trying to combine schedules of 4 kids, schoolwork, housework, dinner, literally a taxi for kids, and I didn't even do yardwork. I think if you tallied up everything a stay hom mom does, Forbes or USA Today did it once and it came out to about a 85,000 a yr salary when they broke it down. I think it's a slap in the face to stay home mom's, many who could be out in the workforce earning good money, but they make a sacrifice to stay home with the kids. Maybe I am the only one who feels that way, but I know my job now is easier than when I was a stay home mom, not as gratifying in the most important areas but I had no choice.

[Puzzler]

Kaine says Terri kept alhcolism hidden.  Slow build up over time.

Finances managed separately from each other, with that set up he didn't see everything.

Kaine never answered the question by Jane about passing-out drunk.  All Kaine said was Terri kept it hidden.

How can a person be passing-out drunk several nights a week AND have kept it hidden?

Kaine has said that he was told by Terri that she had PPD..that she was also on meds for that..many meds make people sleepy.

He has also said in an interview that until she was gone from the house he didn't know how she hid the drinking.  Then they found soda cans, bottles, etc..hidden everywhere.with booze in them.  That is typical for abusers of alcohol..

He was also told by Terri that Kiara was fussy and teething so she needed to be up at odd times to take care of her..We each think what we have concluded...but many of the questions you raise were answered by Kaine long ago, as the investigation and Terri's behavior has come to light.  That is what makes me believe Kaine..some say he has contridicated himself...when you look back he really hasn't..he has been slowlly realizing what was happening..just my opinion 


 

TY for the tidbit about the soda cans, bottles with booze, hidden everywhere - I've never read that information anywhere before. 

I know he's been consistent about Terri hiding the drinking and he wasn't aware...but in his court filing he said she had slurred speech, she was stumbling and she was passed-out drunk several nights a week.  That paints a picture of an on-going and very visible problem and not hidden.

I do believe it was a slow progression and I do believe "at first" Kaine wasn't aware.  But the picture being painted is not everything was rosey one week and the next week Terri was an alcholic...doesn't happen that way either.  So I believe a lot of what Kaine says.  But, IMO, Kaine's words during interviews that we hear and see don't portray what he filed in his affidavit to the court.

Best I recall, Kaine said Terri had PPD and would have to be watched for about 6 months.  I don't think I've see anything clear on whether Terri was taking PPD meds so long after Kiara was born.  If any monkey can point me in a direction for that information, I sure would appreciate it.

[islandmonkey]

Concerning the gym, I am not that bothered that they went to the gym.  I'm sure they had their cell phones with them at every second. When I went through something horrible I was told by my counselor and by others to make a point to get some physical exercise because it relieves anxiety and depression.  When my husband asked for a divorce, and then moved out, I spent time at the gym simply because I couldn't stand to be in the house because of the absence of my 'husband'.  I was dangerously depressed and that's when I was given the advice to get out and get the body's natural endorphines (and also because it would help with the sleeplessness).  I don't think I could sit in the house all day waiting for an answer I'm not likely to get if I were misssing my baby - it would literally drive me over the edge.  I wouldn't be much good helping with anything as far as searching goes then.

That being said, what DID bother me about the gym is THAT is what Terri blogged about on her myspace or facebook or whatever she was using the first day or so.  The fact that they went to the gym, not so much.

Totally agree with you on the gym.  Just don't understand why it's so bothersome that Terri was on the computer.  That's what she did...use the computer a lot...much like the posters her on SM.  We're on the computer a lot.  Maybe you wouldn't have gone to the computer, maybe I wouldn't have gone to the computer....but what's wrong with Terri going to the computer?  Maybe she was asked to be on the computer...looking for emails about Kyron, ordering T-shirts and bracelets, getting billboard signs up, looking to see if anyone one (a craz-o) is posting anything on the websites about Kyron, etc.  What's so wrong with that? 

Puzzler I don't think people care about any of the above Terri alledged activites online following Kyron going missing (ordering Tshirts/buttons/getting flyers ordered/organized/even surfing for nutbags that may have taken Kyron).  I think they are a little concerned about these;

http://www.katu.com/news/local/97541389.html

For example, five days after Kyron disappeared, KATU On Your Side investigators found Terri and her husband, Kaine, leaving their gym after a workout.

People commented about it and called her actions “unbelievable.”

Terri responded: “Wow. Unless you know all the details, the stress, the worry, the pain, you have nothing to speak of. You are merely making assumptions - you have no facts, details or knowledge to present so please refrain from your accusations,” she wrote.

She also responded to less significant matters like to people wondering why the couple’s Ford truck was towed from the Horman’s property.

Terri writes it was a mechanical issue. “If I may clear your mind … the truck was towed due to starter and is back at the property.”

In her longest post, about the church vigil for Kyron, Terri takes issue with a person who criticized the Horman family for observing the ceremony from a private room.

“Just so you can have the facts straight since I know personally … The family … went to the back of the church to watch and be part of the community - all together - mom, stepmom, dad, stepdad. …”

That was 11 days before Kaine moved out.

_____________________________________________________________________

JMO but it's a little concerning when a stepmother of a missing child gets online to post comments with bloggers on news articles in an argumentative and defensive way.  These are just the online ones we know about I'd bet $$$ there are more.  Not to mention the "Bat Phones".

I personally don't care.  IMO it leaves me a character and electronic trail for her that I'm sure we will hear about later at trial so it's all good.

As you pointed out - CA - the similarities are there.   To me she is claiming her silence as an act in this respect (cuz in Terri World we are stupid!) and I say "Keep on Talkin Sugar".  All JMO.

BBM~this is why I can see someone being extremely upset......it was HER actions of going to the gym that were called out, instead of BOTH of their actions. Personally, I couldn't have gone to the gym, after E passed I didn't even take a shower for 2 days and went to the florist to pick out flowers in my PJ's and barely was able to even do that.

[Tracygirl]

Kaine says Terri kept alhcolism hidden.  Slow build up over time.

Finances managed separately from each other, with that set up he didn't see everything.

Kaine never answered the question by Jane about passing-out drunk.  All Kaine said was Terri kept it hidden.

How can a person be passing-out drunk several nights a week AND have kept it hidden?

Separate accounts? So she must have been making money from someplace. I thought he said she was spending all of his money? Maybe she had access to his account?
So Terri was stumbling, had slurred speech, passing out drunk on the couch while, the baby played alone, (wondering where Kyron was) and he didn't notice. I think that probably describes it a bit better. I think Kaine is trying to avoid being charged with child endangerment or what did they call it, failure to protect?

Really

I think you have forgotten one important fact...Kaine was an advocate of counseling for the family and each of them.

Terri was seeing a counselor and doctor..she told Kaine she was..for PPD.

Kaine and Terri were in counseling for their marriage..he said that.

When Kyron was admitted to school a year early for his birthdate..he met with counselor and psychiatrist.

When Kyron expressed wanting to live with Desiree only...not this past summer but the one prior..when they had just started the half the summer break with Mom the other half with Dad.  That came out in one of the early interviews with Kaine and Desiree.  Kaine said that ater speaking with a counselor they found this was normal for Kyron's age and for the first summer this took place.

So..not only did she fool Kaine, Desiree..and would hope her family...but also the professionals
Kaine was paying to help the family.

So far I think that Kaine did what he could do..at what point is this Terri's responsibility to own up to her feelings and actions?  To some here it seems like Terri was a small child with no accountabilty for her actions, her well being, the well being of the children, her financial life, etc..she was not a child ..she was adult who could have left at anytime she wanted..she did not leave..until she was legally kicked out.

Gypsy I haven't forgotten anything, I disagree with you. I am not taking everything Kaine has said as the absolute truth as you seem to be doing which that is your choice to do. I think Kaine practices a bit of CYA. That is my opinion of him.

Actually I would like him to have to answer in court as to why he says all of this happened with Terri yet he didn't notice or realize. I think all parents, not just Kaine, should be held accountable if the children are kept in a dangerous situation such as the one he stated in court documents. I believe in the child protection laws and the only change I would make to them would be to make them harsher.   

[Puzzler]

Kaine says Terri kept alhcolism hidden.  Slow build up over time.

Finances managed separately from each other, with that set up he didn't see everything.

Kaine never answered the question by Jane about passing-out drunk.  All Kaine said was Terri kept it hidden.

How can a person be passing-out drunk several nights a week AND have kept it hidden?

Kaine has said that he was told by Terri that she had PPD..that she was also on meds for that..many meds make people sleepy.

He has also said in an interview that until she was gone from the house he didn't know how she hid the drinking.  Then they found soda cans, bottles, etc..hidden everywhere.with booze in them.  That is typical for abusers of alcohol..

He was also told by Terri that Kiara was fussy and teething so she needed to be up at odd times to take care of her..We each think what we have concluded...but many of the questions you raise were answered by Kaine long ago, as the investigation and Terri's behavior has come to light.  That is what makes me believe Kaine..some say he has contridicated himself...when you look back he really hasn't..he has been slowlly realizing what was happening..just my opinion 



 

Also until the jig is up and it is all out in the open (the alcoholism) you cannot smell it - atleast I never could.  Now it's like radar nose - I can smell a drinker from a distance.  They reek.  And they will lie/deny/and hide it forever if they want to.  JMO

Agree completely about the lie/deny/hide parts.  But unless you are so detached or you're not at home - you just can't ignore slurred speech or stummbling gait or passed-out drunk - especially night-after-night.

[fatcatlurker]

Nope but you may deny it.

[Tracygirl]

Kaine says Terri kept alhcolism hidden.  Slow build up over time.

Finances managed separately from each other, with that set up he didn't see everything.

Kaine never answered the question by Jane about passing-out drunk.  All Kaine said was Terri kept it hidden.

How can a person be passing-out drunk several nights a week AND have kept it hidden?

Separate accounts? So she must have been making money from someplace. I thought he said she was spending all of his money? Maybe she had access to his account?
So Terri was stumbling, had slurred speech, passing out drunk on the couch while, the baby played alone, (wondering where Kyron was) and he didn't notice. I think that probably describes it a bit better. I think Kaine is trying to avoid being charged with child endangerment or what did they call it, failure to protect?

I think most dept's of LE are sooooo hesitant to make those charges when another child is missing, even when it's a valid charge as in the case of Ron Cummings IMO.....

I think I'd like someone other than Kaine to verify these facts as his can be distorted to how he perceives them (as in when he said he wasn't cheating on Desiree, and she clearly felt he was.......and even in one of the shows last week, he tends to minimize her pain "she's not mad at me etc" when she clearly is very angry and who can blame her).

Interesting tidbit about the seperate finances, so now I do wonder how she was spending his money, also I am somewhat offended by the stmts "she was just a stay home mom".....HELLO, IMO that was the hardest job I had, trying to combine schedules of 4 kids, schoolwork, housework, dinner, literally a taxi for kids, and I didn't even do yardwork. I think if you tallied up everything a stay hom mom does, Forbes or USA Today did it once and it came out to about a 85,000 a yr salary when they broke it down. I think it's a slap in the face to stay home mom's, many who could be out in the workforce earning good money, but they make a sacrifice to stay home with the kids. Maybe I am the only one who feels that way, but I know my job now is easier than when I was a stay home mom, not as gratifying in the most important areas but I had no choice.

Did he say that on the TV show about only being a stay at home mom? I didn't get to see the show. Why do men feel that way? I have never understood how raising children, cooking, cleaning, shopping ='s an easy time of it. I am now a full time mom and I work PT at our business. I am thankful I get out of the house and talk to adults now! 

[Tracygirl]

Nope but you may deny it.

Fatcatlurker my first thought was perhaps he was also drinking. That would explain why he didn't  quite notice it.

Edit, fix typo.  MB

[Puzzler]

Nope but you may deny it.

Oh...is what you're saying that Kaine may have been in denial?

[Puzzler]

Nope but you may deny it.

Fatcatlurker my first thought was perhaps he was also drinking. That would explain why he didn't  quite notice it.
Edit-fix typo.  MB

Hmmm...never thought of that one.

[Tracygirl]

Nope but you may deny it.

Fatcatlurker my first thought was perhaps he was also drinking. That would explain why he didn't  quite notice it.
Edit-fix typo. MB

Oops! Sorry should read, fatcatlurker! Didn't mean to call you a fatlurker! Yikes!

[no rose colored glasses]

Being a stay at home mom is not only hard work, there are times that you feel you are going to lose your mind. And yes going to work was like a mini vacation, much easier.

[Puzzler]

Question: 

If Kaine were tasked to "prove" his sworn comments to the court that his spouse was a passed-out drunk several nights a week -

how would one go about proving it?

[no rose colored glasses]

Question: 

If Kaine were tasked to "prove" his sworn comments to the court that his spouse was a passed-out drunk several nights a week -

how would one go about proving it?

I guess it would come down to he said, she said. Don't know how you would prove it.

[islandmonkey]

Kaine says Terri kept alhcolism hidden.  Slow build up over time.

Finances managed separately from each other, with that set up he didn't see everything.

Kaine never answered the question by Jane about passing-out drunk.  All Kaine said was Terri kept it hidden.

How can a person be passing-out drunk several nights a week AND have kept it hidden?

Separate accounts? So she must have been making money from someplace. I thought he said she was spending all of his money? Maybe she had access to his account?
So Terri was stumbling, had slurred speech, passing out drunk on the couch while, the baby played alone, (wondering where Kyron was) and he didn't notice. I think that probably describes it a bit better. I think Kaine is trying to avoid being charged with child endangerment or what did they call it, failure to protect?

I think most dept's of LE are sooooo hesitant to make those charges when another child is missing, even when it's a valid charge as in the case of Ron Cummings IMO.....

I think I'd like someone other than Kaine to verify these facts as his can be distorted to how he perceives them (as in when he said he wasn't cheating on Desiree, and she clearly felt he was.......and even in one of the shows last week, he tends to minimize her pain "she's not mad at me etc" when she clearly is very angry and who can blame her).

Interesting tidbit about the seperate finances, so now I do wonder how she was spending his money, also I am somewhat offended by the stmts "she was just a stay home mom".....HELLO, IMO that was the hardest job I had, trying to combine schedules of 4 kids, schoolwork, housework, dinner, literally a taxi for kids, and I didn't even do yardwork. I think if you tallied up everything a stay hom mom does, Forbes or USA Today did it once and it came out to about a 85,000 a yr salary when they broke it down. I think it's a slap in the face to stay home mom's, many who could be out in the workforce earning good money, but they make a sacrifice to stay home with the kids. Maybe I am the only one who feels that way, but I know my job now is easier than when I was a stay home mom, not as gratifying in the most important areas but I had no choice.

Did he say that on the TV show about only being a stay at home mom? I didn't get to see the show. Why do men feel that way? I have never understood how raising children, cooking, cleaning, shopping ='s an easy time of it. I am now a full time mom and I work PT at our business. I am thankful I get out of the house and talk to adults now! 

I didn't see it, worked late agan, grrrrrr. I am talking more about what I read all over the net, like being a mother of 3 kids is all sitting around eating bon-bons and spending hubbie's money, IMO if hubbie (in all marriages not just this one) had to pay for childcare, a cook, a maid, someone to get the kids to and from everything they do, Dr's appt etc., they'd be out alot of money and I just felt when I was as stay home mom, that was my job also so I didn't need to ask to spend money (obvioulsy nothing expensive or lavish) but on general items. I never understood it either as to me it was the hardest job I had, I did it because I wanted to be with my kids and I have no choice anymore, but it was still much harder and in that aspect I can see someone using the computer to have some grown up/adult interaction. Of course, nothing excessive in that either, but I remember when I was able to get out I am sure I talked my head off since I finally had someone to chat with about things other than schoolwork, dinner, chores, and going potty

[Tracygirl]

Question: 

If Kaine were tasked to "prove" his sworn comments to the court that his spouse was a passed-out drunk several nights a week -

how would one go about proving it?

I don't know