Zahra Clare Baker #9 11/27/10 - 1/5/11

[bananas]

I cannot tolerate the thought that they will get away with this monstrous act.  I can only hope charges are coming down the pipeline.  I have to agree... if they can charge people with murder without a body...surely they can charge them with murder when they tell them how they cut them up and buried them..... Good Lord!

[starwynn]

I don't often post unless I have something fairly newsworthy to share, mostly because you all do such a fantastic job, but I thought this might be relevant.

I probably shouldn't even post this because it is so depressing but here goes.

Last night I saw on the local news channel where they were talking about everything (so far) being presented to the DA and it's going before a grand jury (in fact, I believe the news was a re-run from several days ago as they seem to do that on weekends) and the newscaster said since there is no way to tell how Zahra died and a few other things, and that it was going to be very difficult to prosecute anyone for her death.

I don't know if that was the newscaster's opinion or something she was repeating from word of mouth, LE, or what, but it really made me sad to hear it. I really hope it was just her opinion.

I have a sinking feeling (now) that this will end up like the Haleigh Cummings' case and they will just have to go with what they already have on EB and AB. And maybe what they did to her after death and neglect, etc.

I've had that terrible feeling, too.  Based on what is just given out to the public information-wise, realistically we have to be prepared for that possibility.  AB and EB can't be convicted on "but it's obvious".... UNfortunately!     There has to be a manner of death, otherwise it's just corpse tampering and covering THAT up.  If they can't determine a cause of death, and if she was buried long enough that's possible, then they can't pin it on them.

That being said, it's still possible (and I hope it's likely) that the LE has a bunch of information they were fine-tuning all this time to make certain that they can and will charge the guilty parties with Zahra's death, and all the other horrors that accompanied it.  In the mean time I pray, hope, beg God, and cross my fingers (anything to "tug the fabric of the universe" as my friend says) that we will find out who did this, and that there will be enough evidence to prosecute, and that they will be held accountable fully with a life or death sentence with no possibility of parole.

So, how is it that the state can prosecute without a body, but not if they can't determine cause of death on a corpse? Could someone explain this to me? I would still think that this can go beyond resonable doubt if they dismembered. The only hang up I can think of is who did it. Since EB knows all these details, wouldn't it go to show that she was there and played a major role. This boggles my mind and I'm not understanding the difference in these scenarios.

Natalie and Chase Deblase had been buried since March and June and I don't believe they have determined a cause of death but dad has been charged with 2 counts of murder and abuse of a corpse so it can be done. IMO

In that case, there was a person who specifically said "I believe dad killed the kids - they were nonresponsive".  He gets caught, makes some weak protest that she was responsible, but ultimately he did admit that he took the bodies and dumped them.  I think this might be the difference in this case.  Im sure it's possible to do it, but I'm just as sure, with two people neither of which are saying the other did it, both denying the murder, that it'll be harder to make it stick.  And I think that's why this is taking so darn long.  Unless there's some information the public doesn't know about, it's going to be harder to make a murder charge stick to these two monsters.  Note - I'm being very literal here.  I'm not saying it's IMpossible.  But you have to admit, particularly because it's been discussed by the legal community, that the "guarantee" of being able to charge either for murder just can't seem to be given yet.  Not with the information the public is given, anyway.

Maybe I'm just trying to protect myself by imagining the worst-case scenario?  What I mean is that if these two horrors get off for this with only a tampering/abuse and no murder charges, I am going to take it very very hard.  I tend to brace myself emptionally for situations like this, considering the worst and best case scenarios so I"m not blind-sided.  Unfortunately this case has been chock full of blind-sided, and "surely it can't get much worse" situations that DO indeed get much MUCH worse.  I'm just saying that it IS possible that these two could get away with this... God let's hope not.  But there is hope that "worst case scenarios" aren't the norm.  Possible, but not the average.  I just worry because in this case, to NOT have a murder charge.... to allow all this to happen to this little girl and have the weasels get away with it.... it would just kill me.

[Nut44x4]

So, how is it that the state can prosecute without a body, but not if they can't determine cause of death on a corpse? Could someone explain this to me? I would still think that this can go beyond resonable doubt if they dismembered. The only hang up I can think of is who did it. Since EB knows all these details, wouldn't it go to show that she was there and played a major role. This boggles my mind and I'm not understanding the difference in these scenarios.

Natalie and Chase Deblase had been buried since March and June and I don't believe they have determined a cause of death but dad has been charged with 2 counts of murder and abuse of a corpse so it can be done. IMO

And let us not forget Casey....she is being tried in a DP case w/o COD.

[Curly]

Exactly, Nut.
Caylee's has a manner of death (homicide), but undetermined COD.

[Wildingheart]

I agree with everything that's been said. There's just that underlying fear (for me) that they will get away with the perfect murder and do time for something else.

I was thinking though, and happened to remember a case within the past few years where a woman was murdered by her husband (can't remember who, because there are so many) and it was announced one night on national news that the husband definitely was not a person of interest (because people were speculating that he was) and the next morning he was arrested for her murder.

I've been a victim of a violent crime where there was justice, but that didn't help me one little bit. It seemed lame and laughable (at the time) because I was in so much emotional pain and the only thing that could have helped was bringing back my deceased loved one. It made no sense to me at that time that just because someone was in prison it was counted as 'justice'. And I learned there really is no closure. That closure means dead.

But that was years ago and I've changed and hopefully grown a bit. But for me at least, I still feel there isn't real justice unless everyone remotely involved in the crime is punished, which never happens.

[starwynn]

Exactly, Nut.
Caylee's has a manner of death (homicide), but undetermined COD.

Well at least I'm sure they can greatly guarantee that it was a death caused by those two in some way, and not a natural death!  So there is hope for true justice. 

It's really excruciating waiting for it, isn't it tho?

[starwynn]

I agree with everything that's been said. There's just that underlying fear (for me) that they will get away with the perfect murder and do time for something else.

I was thinking though, and happened to remember a case within the past few years where a woman was murdered by her husband (can't remember who, because there are so many) and it was announced one night on national news that the husband definitely was not a person of interest (because people were speculating that he was) and the next morning he was arrested for her murder.

I've been a victim of a violent crime where there was justice, but that didn't help me one little bit. It seemed lame and laughable (at the time) because I was in so much emotional pain and the only thing that could have helped was bringing back my deceased loved one. It made no sense to me at that time that just because someone was in prison it was counted as 'justice'. And I learned there really is no closure. That closure means dead.

But that was years ago and I've changed and hopefully grown a bit. But for me at least, I still feel there isn't real justice unless everyone remotely involved in the crime is punished, which never happens.

I'm very sorry to hear about your past situations, and the lack of justice and possibly closure, and the pain that you went through.  /hugs  I think that sort of situation really does change the way you look at things.  I have a real issue with  justice not being served from my own life because of numerous burglaries and one mugging.  I don't see there being nearly enough justice done in the world - all the pedophiles that are running loose, people who murder and still get out and have a life outside jail, or have a life at all while their victim has none and the victim's family's is nearly destroyed.  I think that's why I'm just so intent on seeing real justice done.  Of course that, and like others my heart fell for the smiling girl from Australia.  I had so hoped we would see her smile, but on live feed, when she was found and saved.   Every time I read about those two freaks coasting by with such irrelevant charges so far, it makes my blood boil.

[Monkey King]

I'n still holding out for all the tests results and GJ determination. Ahra's had enough negativity in her short life. In her death she needs support. Yes, LE/justice has let us down in the past, but occassionally they come through. Let's hope this is the case they come through. Personally, I think-if they could find an impartial jury, they're going down for the dismembering. No-one's going to want someone who could do that to their own child in their neighborhood! (What would they do to a stranger's child??)

[Lake Erie Princess]

Regardless of any lack of evidence, or not having the exact COD,
I do not see the LE letting this case go for the sake of their reps
and the community.

The entire world EXPECTS and will demand justice for Zahra. Her death and abuse of her corpse were too horrendous not to
follow through to to completion of justice with this one.

[starwynn]

Regardless of any lack of evidence, or not having the exact COD,
I do not see the LE letting this case go for the sake of their reps
and the community.

The entire world EXPECTS and will demand justice for Zahra. Her death and abuse of her corpse were too horrendous not to
follow through to to completion of justice with this one.

Yep, we're all watching.

[Curly]

Exactly, Nut.
Caylee's has a manner of death (homicide), but undetermined COD.

Well at least I'm sure they can greatly guarantee that it was a death caused by those two in some way, and not a natural death!  So there is hope for true justice. 

It's really excruciating waiting for it, isn't it tho?

Totally excruciating.
I hope AB hasn't snuck away.

[4 Donks]

Does anyone know if Ma Baker is still here protecting her evil spawn ?

[4myjoey]

Charges in Zahra Baker case on hold until after the New Year


HICKORY, NC (WBTV) – Despite giving a preliminary investigation report on the Zahra Baker case to the District Attorney last week, Hickory Police officials do not expect any decision on possible charges to come quickly.

On Tuesday, Dec. 21, Hickory Police Chief Tom Adkins would not go into details, but would only say, "the investigation is not over."

Due to the approaching holidays, many of the principals that would be involved in any decision on possible charges would not be able to get together until after the first of the year.

The Catawba County Grand Jury meets on January 3rd and sources tell WBTV News that it would be difficult to have a presentation ready by that session.

In the past, District Attorney James C. Gaither has said there would be "No rush to judgment in this case, that officials would wait until all the evidence is in before deciding what to do next."

Police sources confirmed on Tuesday that not all of the lab results on evidence are back yet.

More at the link.



http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13726990

[Sister]

I'n still holding out for all the tests results and GJ determination. Ahra's had enough negativity in her short life. In her death she needs support. Yes, LE/justice has let us down in the past, but occassionally they come through. Let's hope this is the case they come through. Personally, I think-if they could find an impartial jury, they're going down for the dismembering. No-one's going to want someone who could do that to their own child in their neighborhood! (What would they do to a stranger's child??)

MonkeyKing, I totally agree.  The ole "I didn't think you (LE) would believe she just got sick and died or we chopped (sorry) her up" story is just not going to fly!  Honestly, if I have to drive to the court house . . . which is a half day away from me . . . I will start a protest!

[Sister]

Please light a candle and say a prayer for Zahra,may she rest in peace.
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Zahra

[Fanny Mae]

Please light a candle and say a prayer for Zahra,may she rest in peace.
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Zahra

There are four pages of candles for Zahra. This case isn't going to be shoved under the rug.   

[Terri]

I so agree with wildingheart.  What consitutes justice?  I too had someone in my life associated with a henious crime however he was the perp.  When he was finally "brought to justice" 25 years later, the victim had lived every day hearing his voice, remembering the last seconds of her husband's life.  And the perp?  Never a regret, never a bad memory.

That is what gets me the most....for some people, they can commit an act and think nothing of it...I pray that is not true in this case.  Justice would be for the two of them to be driven mad remembering minute details of their act.  When I was a young mother, I had parked my car and was rolling up the windows.   My five year old had put his head out the window and was too scared to tell me I was rolling the window up on him.....that was twenty five years ago and it still comes to my mind and hurts beyond words.  And he was not even hurt. 

In the past, I thougth everyone felt guilt and remorse, had horrendous memories..but now I know there are people who can commit crimes and never look back.  My heart breaks for this world and fears for my family as a result.

MOO

[Lake Erie Princess]

And, Zahra, if u have some "pull" up there,
please tell our creator that he needs to
speak to the hearts of these evil people in our world,
and suggest they change their ways.

Urge them to think before they act,
and spare other innocents from the wrath of the wicked and evil !

[Sister]

And, Zahra, if u have some "pull" up there,
please tell our creator that he needs to
speak to the hearts of these evil people in our world,
and suggest they change their ways.

Urge them to think before they act,
and spare other innocents from the wrath of the wicked and evil !

Amen and Amen.

[sassifrass]

It's Christmas Eve and I DO believe in miracles. I believe God will give justice for Zahra and every child that has gone through the same, horrible life that these sweet children have gone through.

Legal justice is satisfying, but God's wrath is more powerful. Whether in life or death, Zahra's death will be given the justice that she so deserves.