Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #852 11/20/10 - 11/23/10

[Anna]

Does anyone else think that it just doesn't do Aruba any good to deny the fact that Natalee is deceased and Joran is responsible now that he is practically caught on tape in Peru?  I mean, what are the odds that there was another psycho in Aruba at that time who caused Natalee to disappear?  That would be even worse for their tourism image.

So now that he is soooo caught, they have no reason to remain in denial and keep saying no evidence and all the rest of the cover up.  They will still say they have no evidence that Joran is guilty which is true because they deliberately refused to collect any but to continue to deny that anything even happened is just stretching credibility too far and even the tone deaf Arubans can pick up on that this just will not be believed after what Joran did in Peru.  So they might as well give her back and hope that will cause Beth to go away.

I know I am not making any sense but after this long, I do think most of you will understand what I am trying to say.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Here is a somewhat interesting thread about the jawbone found near the Phoenix, including a question from a tourist about whether the beach was closed and indignation that nothing was being done and also a post from someone who just returned from there, who described the abundance of things that came ashore and the use of 'heavy equipment' to remove it.   

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81560

[Anna]

I can't help checking about 4 times a day even on the weekend, lol!  My mind tells me we will find out Wednesday night or even Thursday or Friday but my heart keeps looking!

[Anna]

Here is a somewhat interesting thread about the jawbone found near the Phoenix, including a question from a tourist about whether the beach was closed and indignation that nothing was being done and also a post from someone who just returned from there, who described the abundance of things that came ashore and the use of 'heavy equipment' to remove it.   

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81560

Oh, good grief!  That's the very worst thing they could do but why am I not surprised???  Makes me furious even if this is not Natalee, it's Somebody!

[Dihannah1]

Does anyone else think that it just doesn't do Aruba any good to deny the fact that Natalee is deceased and Joran is responsible now that he is practically caught on tape in Peru?  I mean, what are the odds that there was another psycho in Aruba at that time who caused Natalee to disappear?  That would be even worse for their tourism image.

So now that he is soooo caught, they have no reason to remain in denial and keep saying no evidence and all the rest of the cover up.  They will still say they have no evidence that Joran is guilty which is true because they deliberately refused to collect any but to continue to deny that anything even happened is just stretching credibility too far and even the tone deaf Arubans can pick up on that this just will not be believed after what Joran did in Peru.  So they might as well give her back and hope that will cause Beth to go away.

I know I am not making any sense but after this long, I do think most of you will understand what I am trying to say.

Anna, you make perfect sense, as usual!  I would think it would be in there best interest to  admit it was him, give Nat back and let it go in the past.  He's going to rot in Peru either way.  And as for the rest of those in the conspiracy, God can take care of them! Perfect chance for them to move on.   It's a win/win for everybody!  MOO

[Dihannah1]

Here is a somewhat interesting thread about the jawbone found near the Phoenix, including a question from a tourist about whether the beach was closed and indignation that nothing was being done and also a post from someone who just returned from there, who described the abundance of things that came ashore and the use of 'heavy equipment' to remove it.   

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81560

It amazes me that these people are familiar with Nat's case, but continue to book trips there, with so many other islands to go to.  I mean, they are willing to risk it???? 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Here is a somewhat interesting thread about the jawbone found near the Phoenix, including a question from a tourist about whether the beach was closed and indignation that nothing was being done and also a post from someone who just returned from there, who described the abundance of things that came ashore and the use of 'heavy equipment' to remove it.   

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81560

Oh, good grief!  That's the very worst thing they could do but why am I not surprised???  Makes me furious even if this is not Natalee, it's Somebody!

My thoughts, exactly, Anna.  I was also wondering how much 'heavy equipment' they have now after 5 plus years.  Seems I recall they had a shortage after Natalee vanished. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Here is a somewhat interesting thread about the jawbone found near the Phoenix, including a question from a tourist about whether the beach was closed and indignation that nothing was being done and also a post from someone who just returned from there, who described the abundance of things that came ashore and the use of 'heavy equipment' to remove it.   

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81560

It amazes me that these people are familiar with Nat's case, but continue to book trips there, with so many other islands to go to.  I mean, they are willing to risk it???? 

We've found that many acquaintances have gone recently or their children honeymooned there.  I don't get it, either.  I think one group was there when Tomas hit.  We'll see them in a couple of weeks at a dinner.  I'll have to ask about it, then. 

[Lisa in MD]

Does anyone else think that it just doesn't do Aruba any good to deny the fact that Natalee is deceased and Joran is responsible now that he is practically caught on tape in Peru?  I mean, what are the odds that there was another psycho in Aruba at that time who caused Natalee to disappear?  That would be even worse for their tourism image.

So now that he is soooo caught, they have no reason to remain in denial and keep saying no evidence and all the rest of the cover up.  They will still say they have no evidence that Joran is guilty which is true because they deliberately refused to collect any but to continue to deny that anything even happened is just stretching credibility too far and even the tone deaf Arubans can pick up on that this just will not be believed after what Joran did in Peru.  So they might as well give her back and hope that will cause Beth to go away.

I know I am not making any sense but after this long, I do think most of you will understand what I am trying to say.

Anna, you make perfect sense, as usual!  I would think it would be in there best interest to  admit it was him, give Nat back and let it go in the past.  He's going to rot in Peru either way.  And as for the rest of those in the conspiracy, God can take care of them! Perfect chance for them to move on.   It's a win/win for everybody!  MOO

Aah yes, but the problem in admitting that equals more than a few bones that wash ashore and it won’t be left to the past.  They will stand wide open in exposure for the corruption and cover up Starting with Van der Stratten.
This is a Big Mess and they don’t know how to clean it up and do damage control so they will continue to deny it.
They just don’t understand that the Truth will prevail.

I wonder how Van der Stratten is handling this news. He and Anita must weigh about 98lbs wet now!

[Dihannah1]

Does anyone else think that it just doesn't do Aruba any good to deny the fact that Natalee is deceased and Joran is responsible now that he is practically caught on tape in Peru?  I mean, what are the odds that there was another psycho in Aruba at that time who caused Natalee to disappear?  That would be even worse for their tourism image.

So now that he is soooo caught, they have no reason to remain in denial and keep saying no evidence and all the rest of the cover up.  They will still say they have no evidence that Joran is guilty which is true because they deliberately refused to collect any but to continue to deny that anything even happened is just stretching credibility too far and even the tone deaf Arubans can pick up on that this just will not be believed after what Joran did in Peru.  So they might as well give her back and hope that will cause Beth to go away.

I know I am not making any sense but after this long, I do think most of you will understand what I am trying to say.

Anna, you make perfect sense, as usual!  I would think it would be in there best interest to  admit it was him, give Nat back and let it go in the past.  He's going to rot in Peru either way.  And as for the rest of those in the conspiracy, God can take care of them! Perfect chance for them to move on.   It's a win/win for everybody!  MOO

Aah yes, but the problem in admitting that equals more than a few bones that wash ashore and it won’t be left to the past.  They will stand wide open in exposure for the corruption and cover up Starting with Van der Stratten.
This is a Big Mess and they don’t know how to clean it up and do damage control so they will continue to deny it.
They just don’t understand that the Truth will prevail.

I wonder how Van der Stratten is handling this news. He and Anita must weigh about 98lbs wet now!

Good point!  Wishful thinking on mine! 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Does anyone else think that it just doesn't do Aruba any good to deny the fact that Natalee is deceased and Joran is responsible now that he is practically caught on tape in Peru?  I mean, what are the odds that there was another psycho in Aruba at that time who caused Natalee to disappear?  That would be even worse for their tourism image.

So now that he is soooo caught, they have no reason to remain in denial and keep saying no evidence and all the rest of the cover up.  They will still say they have no evidence that Joran is guilty which is true because they deliberately refused to collect any but to continue to deny that anything even happened is just stretching credibility too far and even the tone deaf Arubans can pick up on that this just will not be believed after what Joran did in Peru.  So they might as well give her back and hope that will cause Beth to go away.

I know I am not making any sense but after this long, I do think most of you will understand what I am trying to say.

Anna, you make perfect sense, as usual!  I would think it would be in there best interest to  admit it was him, give Nat back and let it go in the past.  He's going to rot in Peru either way.  And as for the rest of those in the conspiracy, God can take care of them! Perfect chance for them to move on.   It's a win/win for everybody!  MOO

Aah yes, but the problem in admitting that equals more than a few bones that wash ashore and it won’t be left to the past.  They will stand wide open in exposure for the corruption and cover up Starting with Van der Stratten.
This is a Big Mess and they don’t know how to clean it up and do damage control so they will continue to deny it.
They just don’t understand that the Truth will prevail.

I wonder how Van der Stratten is handling this news. He and Anita must weigh about 98lbs wet now!

I doubt it!   

[jjayinthemorning]

* 10:00 am - 4 suspects meet at Bubali police station, and meet at the van der Sloot pool thereafter

* 3:00 pm - Paulus makes a visit to the bank, and has 1 hour missing before arriving home

* 5:00 pm - Paulus takes Joran to the Racquet club wtih the gym bag containing evidence, and Joran meets with Koen to make arrangements for the boat - and they do not play tennis.

* 6:00 pm - Paulus makes his second trip to the Racquet Club to retrieve Joran and the gym bag, they then retrieve Miss Holloway's remains.

* 7:25 pm - Joran calls Deepak, triangulation of the cell phone records shows the location near the boat launch

* 8:15 - 8:30 pm - Paulus at home on the computer researching drugs, Joran at the Wyndham casino.

* 10:30 pm - The van der Sloots are aware the Twitty's are en route to Aruba on a privately chartered jet.

* 11:30 pm - Joran, Guido, and Deepak are in discussion in Deepak’s car in a casino parking lot.

* 2:00 am - Deepak, Joran and Guido leave the casino for one hour, Deepak's car is seen at 2:30 am at the van der sloot home .

As we close this series, we point out that others close to the investigation have also arrived at the exact same conclusion.[/i]



JOSSY MANSUR:

Joran had access to several boats, Mansur said, and could have used one of them to dispose of Natalee's body.

"Whatever happened to her, happened at Joran's apartment or at the beach to the north of the Marriott hotel," Mansur said. "The disposal of her body, we strongly believe, was masterminded by the father, who coached them by the pool at his home and drilled them in what they had to say and which story they had to cling to."

This is exactly what I have been looking for.
18 hours after Natalee was reported missing and the black guys at her hotel were accused and a distraction, the van der Sloots were hiding the body in the bay where her jawbone washed up after hurricane Tomas.
Exactly. But who was the boat that helped them?

The Gottenboes had a boat. A boat outing was documented in Sander G's statement. I believe the boys Koen and Sander may be cousins with Joran. Not sure if that was ever proven. But many who believe in a sea burial believe this boat was involved.  Much more involved in this story. yYou can probably search gottenboes boat here at SM and get more info (if I spelled their name right )

Steve Croes had access to a boat.

Lorenzo Van Rijn had access to a boat but I'm not sure it's ever been proven that he even knows Joran.

Arends or Arendz I believe are associated with race boats -- and Joran's friend.

And I think there is a 'police' force unit that has boats.

Many boats. Island living.

At the time, right after the disappearance, suspicion of boats was an afterthought. And I remember talk of the DJ who took his boat out around the time too that matched a cell phone call.
Maybe even the boat owner didn't know Joran and Paulus' plan to dump the body, maybe they thought they were dumping stolen goods, or something else. I'm sure their story was elaborate.
Like the brother that helped Drew Peterson move that giant box... he was an eyewitness but didn't even know it.

[Shy Monkey]

Thinking about Beth and Dave made me remember a poem I wrote for them a couple of years ago. With this new possibility looming before us, I thought I would share it again while we wait.


In His Time

Even while I grieve, I know You are in charge...
I know You're the Boss of this show.
I know we are taught that we must wait on You
But have I the strength? I don't know...

I have tried to be patient, though waiting is hard...
I've tried to just leave it to You.
But the way things have gone just haven't been good...
And I constantly see evil anew.

But again I will do what I know You have asked...
And trust in Your power and Your love.
I will fall to my knees to join others in prayer
And pray for strength from above.

But wait! What was that? What do I hear?
Beautiful voices, whispers, and then...
A soft sweet voice clearly says "In His Time"
Like a promise to me, Heaven sent.

Then a glimpse of her face and her smile I see.
She reminds me of all we are taught.
That we must have faith, believe, and hold true…
Believing is never for naught.

Justice is His, and the righteous will win!
This is promised to those who believe...
So although I am tired, weary and worn
I will wait on You Lord, though I grieve.

I will pray in faith for Justice to come...
To be served rightly so, in Your time.
I will pray for patience as I try to hold on,
My prayer will be… "in Your time, not mine".

by GabbyG

Thank you GabbyG.

 

Janet

Gabby that was beautiful and I really appreciate you sharing it with us.  I don't post often but I am here each and everyday reading and praying for justice for all those who have been wronged.  I believe that if it doesn't come on Earth it will come in Heaven.  My prayers to all those who have been hurt or who are hurting and God bless you all for keeping us up to date in addition to all the wonderful things you do for those in need.  I have the greatest respect for all of you and thank you from the bottom of my heart!

[sharon]

Hi, Sharon.

Even the Persistence had help from a local 28 ft. boat, PREDATOR.....so many boats & willing helpers.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371156;topicseen#msg371156

 

Happy Turkey week to you 

Yes, so many boats available. 

[sharon]

* 10:00 am - 4 suspects meet at Bubali police station, and meet at the van der Sloot pool thereafter

* 3:00 pm - Paulus makes a visit to the bank, and has 1 hour missing before arriving home

* 5:00 pm - Paulus takes Joran to the Racquet club wtih the gym bag containing evidence, and Joran meets with Koen to make arrangements for the boat - and they do not play tennis.

* 6:00 pm - Paulus makes his second trip to the Racquet Club to retrieve Joran and the gym bag, they then retrieve Miss Holloway's remains.

* 7:25 pm - Joran calls Deepak, triangulation of the cell phone records shows the location near the boat launch

* 8:15 - 8:30 pm - Paulus at home on the computer researching drugs, Joran at the Wyndham casino.

* 10:30 pm - The van der Sloots are aware the Twitty's are en route to Aruba on a privately chartered jet.

* 11:30 pm - Joran, Guido, and Deepak are in discussion in Deepak’s car in a casino parking lot.

* 2:00 am - Deepak, Joran and Guido leave the casino for one hour, Deepak's car is seen at 2:30 am at the van der sloot home .

As we close this series, we point out that others close to the investigation have also arrived at the exact same conclusion.[/i]



JOSSY MANSUR:

Joran had access to several boats, Mansur said, and could have used one of them to dispose of Natalee's body.

"Whatever happened to her, happened at Joran's apartment or at the beach to the north of the Marriott hotel," Mansur said. "The disposal of her body, we strongly believe, was masterminded by the father, who coached them by the pool at his home and drilled them in what they had to say and which story they had to cling to."

This is exactly what I have been looking for.
18 hours after Natalee was reported missing and the black guys at her hotel were accused and a distraction, the van der Sloots were hiding the body in the bay where her jawbone washed up after hurricane Tomas.
Exactly. But who was the boat that helped them?

The Gottenboes had a boat. A boat outing was documented in Sander G's statement. I believe the boys Koen and Sander may be cousins with Joran. Not sure if that was ever proven. But many who believe in a sea burial believe this boat was involved.  Much more involved in this story. yYou can probably search gottenboes boat here at SM and get more info (if I spelled their name right )

Steve Croes had access to a boat.

Lorenzo Van Rijn had access to a boat but I'm not sure it's ever been proven that he even knows Joran.

Arends or Arendz I believe are associated with race boats -- and Joran's friend.

And I think there is a 'police' force unit that has boats.

Many boats. Island living.

At the time, right after the disappearance, suspicion of boats was an afterthought. And I remember talk of the DJ who took his boat out around the time too that matched a cell phone call.
Maybe even the boat owner didn't know Joran and Paulus' plan to dump the body, maybe they thought they were dumping stolen goods, or something else. I'm sure their story was elaborate.
Like the brother that helped Drew Peterson move that giant box... he was an eyewitness but didn't even know it.

I think there could have been a sizable cage involved -- or at least a body.

It would be difficult for the accomplices to not know.

In my opinion only.

There was damage reported on the Gottenboes boat a few days after Natalee went missing -- right around the time the G's sold it to the 'Octopus' guy. iirc.

[Ono]

O/T

Glenda is parsing words again.  There is a well known anthropologist residing in Aruba. He probably made the initial identification.

Luc Alofs, anthropologist, curator of the Historical Museum Aruba

http://www.petergreenberg.com/2009/08/22/ask-the-locals-island-guide-aruba/

http://www.rnw.nl/caribiana/article/arubaanse-verkiezingen-platteland-versus-de-stad?quicktabs_1=1

 

Oh My!! You'd think if he were an anthropologist, he could pick up a couple of better fitting teeth............. just sayin'.

No kidding!!!   

[Northern Rose]

Here is a somewhat interesting thread about the jawbone found near the Phoenix, including a question from a tourist about whether the beach was closed and indignation that nothing was being done and also a post from someone who just returned from there, who described the abundance of things that came ashore and the use of 'heavy equipment' to remove it.   

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81560

I found this comment interesting.  Is the spin doctoring beginning?

arubamikey  Post subject: Re: Jaw bone found at the PhoenixPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:36 pm
 
It could be from the newlywed who went on a kayak with her husband in the early 1990's while on their honeymoon, and neither was ever seen again.

[Ono]

Does anyone else think that it just doesn't do Aruba any good to deny the fact that Natalee is deceased and Joran is responsible now that he is practically caught on tape in Peru?  I mean, what are the odds that there was another psycho in Aruba at that time who caused Natalee to disappear?  That would be even worse for their tourism image.

So now that he is soooo caught, they have no reason to remain in denial and keep saying no evidence and all the rest of the cover up.  They will still say they have no evidence that Joran is guilty which is true because they deliberately refused to collect any but to continue to deny that anything even happened is just stretching credibility too far and even the tone deaf Arubans can pick up on that this just will not be believed after what Joran did in Peru.  So they might as well give her back and hope that will cause Beth to go away.

I know I am not making any sense but after this long, I do think most of you will understand what I am trying to say.

You make a lot of sense, Anna-as always!!!!

[Ono]

Does anyone else think that it just doesn't do Aruba any good to deny the fact that Natalee is deceased and Joran is responsible now that he is practically caught on tape in Peru?  I mean, what are the odds that there was another psycho in Aruba at that time who caused Natalee to disappear?  That would be even worse for their tourism image.

So now that he is soooo caught, they have no reason to remain in denial and keep saying no evidence and all the rest of the cover up.  They will still say they have no evidence that Joran is guilty which is true because they deliberately refused to collect any but to continue to deny that anything even happened is just stretching credibility too far and even the tone deaf Arubans can pick up on that this just will not be believed after what Joran did in Peru.  So they might as well give her back and hope that will cause Beth to go away.

I know I am not making any sense but after this long, I do think most of you will understand what I am trying to say.

Anna, you make perfect sense, as usual!  I would think it would be in there best interest to  admit it was him, give Nat back and let it go in the past.  He's going to rot in Peru either way.  And as for the rest of those in the conspiracy, God can take care of them! Perfect chance for them to move on.   It's a win/win for everybody!  MOO

Aah yes, but the problem in admitting that equals more than a few bones that wash ashore and it won’t be left to the past.  They will stand wide open in exposure for the corruption and cover up Starting with Van der Stratten.
This is a Big Mess and they don’t know how to clean it up and do damage control so they will continue to deny it.
They just don’t understand that the Truth will prevail.

I wonder how Van der Stratten is handling this news. He and Anita must weigh about 98lbs wet now!

Lol-I'd like to see Anita weigh 98 lbs!!  Ain't ever gonna happen!!   

[Northern Rose]

http://www.24ora.com/gallery.html?func=detail&id=19964
True house music @ Confession 13nov'10


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8719.msg1260897#msg1260897
Aitana Cardoso (far right in the picture) just turned 17.  She's a student (senior iirc) at the International School of Aruba.

http://komamodels.com/models/ko-girls/aitana-cardoso.html

http://www.aruba-travelguide.com/faq/index.html

What is the legal drinking/gambling age?
The legal age for both drinking and gambling is 18 years. It is not, however, widely enforced. You will not usually be "carded".

They don't seem to have any capacity regulations for over capacity either.  Posted last night Club Zissles



http://plixi.com/p/58233081