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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #852 11/20/10 - 11/23/10  (Read 158324 times)
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Rob
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« Reply #320 on: November 21, 2010, 09:17:06 PM »

I should add - since Beth's DNA is on hand from the test on June 12th 2005, a mitochondrial DNA test would confirm it is Natalee rather quickly.

In the event there is no mitochondrial DNA comparison - replication is essential. This would be used to compare to a tooth brush or hair brush - or even clothing with Touch DNA comparison using skin cells.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from every mother to every child.

So, once again, it is known through mitochondrial DNA, dental overlay using electronic records of the jaw bone, and any cast Dave sent to Holland. I am sure the results are known by now.

Thanks Rob for your fine explanation.

Think you are saying that in Natalee's case, they already have the DNA replication, and it is only a matter of comparing that with the results of the DNA found in the tooth?

Isn't it amazing that DNA can remain in a tooth for so many years. 



to add.  Thus, since they are testing against Beth's DNA - and I expect the family made sure they got samples of Natalee's DNA in '05 as well, the problem of using up all the DNA in the tooth, would not be an issue here?

can -  we don't know for a fact that they are testing against Beth's 05 sample. I just made the point that it's on file. It would be a natural starting point since it's in a computer data base somewhere.
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« Reply #321 on: November 21, 2010, 09:19:21 PM »

At airport waiting to board.

If they know the results and it's not Natalee but they are waiting to give the results HOW CRUEL IS THAT?

Too cruel, Taco Stein did say that the family would be notified first so I do have a sliver of hope that if it's not her...they have been notified.

But it's a itsy bitsy tee niny tiny sliver...

 


Yes he did but which family?  Anita and K2 so they can get out of dodge and cover?  Would not put it past Aruba to protect their own .
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AZSunny
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« Reply #322 on: November 21, 2010, 09:21:18 PM »

At airport waiting to board.

If they know the results and it's not Natalee but they are waiting to give the results HOW CRUEL IS THAT?

Too cruel, Taco Stein did say that the family would be notified first so I do have a sliver of hope that if it's not her...they have been notified.

But it's a itsy bitsy tee niny tiny sliver...

 


Yes he did but which family?  Anita and K2 so they can get out of dodge and cover?  Would not put it past Aruba to protect their own .

Right, and really how would Taco Stein have any idea what is going on...he is long removed.  Total airhead...he is just speculating.
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« Reply #323 on: November 21, 2010, 09:21:49 PM »

O/T

Glenda is parsing words again.  There is a well known anthropologist residing in Aruba. He probably made the initial identification.

Luc Alofs, anthropologist, curator of the Historical Museum Aruba

http://www.petergreenberg.com/2009/08/22/ask-the-locals-island-guide-aruba/

http://www.rnw.nl/caribiana/article/arubaanse-verkiezingen-platteland-versus-de-stad?quicktabs_1=1





Well, bless his heart! Now... I know that ol' boy can whistle like the dickens.    We need to hook him up with Oksana.
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For Natalee and Stephany, whatever it takes.

-JUSTICE FOR NATALEE ANN - BOYCOTT ARUBA
------------------
"Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do." Thomas Jefferson
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."Thomas Jeff
can
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« Reply #324 on: November 21, 2010, 09:27:16 PM »

I should add - since Beth's DNA is on hand from the test on June 12th 2005, a mitochondrial DNA test would confirm it is Natalee rather quickly.

In the event there is no mitochondrial DNA comparison - replication is essential. This would be used to compare to a tooth brush or hair brush - or even clothing with Touch DNA comparison using skin cells.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from every mother to every child.

So, once again, it is known through mitochondrial DNA, dental overlay using electronic records of the jaw bone, and any cast Dave sent to Holland. I am sure the results are known by now.

Thanks Rob for your fine explanation.

Think you are saying that in Natalee's case, they already have the DNA replication, and it is only a matter of comparing that with the results of the DNA found in the tooth?

Isn't it amazing that DNA can remain in a tooth for so many years. 



see, that's why they would do a replication technique. Just one tooth. It's not like they have a jaw full of teeth to test over and over.

Replication takes time - you need the sample from the tooth and then the time it takes to produce more DNA -

In nature - the DNA "unzips" it's Helix and then is joined by new DNA called Polymerase III. These are encoded with the leading strand to the lagging strand.

This all then happens with RNA Pimase and Primer. In a lab this process is recreated. This is how replication occurs. That sample is then tested against the control sample, the tooth root DNA and any samples from Beth and previously from Natalee's clothes, hair brush, tooth brush, blood samples.. etc..

it takes some time to accomplish this, but it would be done as a last step as a final confirmation after mitochondrial DNA, denatl over-lays and cast comparisons. It would be a final 100% confirmation.

Any of those initial processes would lead the investigation to conclude it is Natalee or not, but in the event it is - and those first steps are confirmed - the final tests would be DNA to the (possible) 600th letter. That would be proof without a doubt. A 1 quadrillion % lock.

Gotcha thank you!
They know if Natalee is the bearer of the mandible by the first steps you mentioned. 

Next step - replication.

They have the control DNA and if it matches tooth DNA (replication) - it's proof positive and would stand in any court room.
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Rob
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« Reply #325 on: November 21, 2010, 09:32:15 PM »

I should add - since Beth's DNA is on hand from the test on June 12th 2005, a mitochondrial DNA test would confirm it is Natalee rather quickly.

In the event there is no mitochondrial DNA comparison - replication is essential. This would be used to compare to a tooth brush or hair brush - or even clothing with Touch DNA comparison using skin cells.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from every mother to every child.

So, once again, it is known through mitochondrial DNA, dental overlay using electronic records of the jaw bone, and any cast Dave sent to Holland. I am sure the results are known by now.

Thanks Rob for your fine explanation.

Think you are saying that in Natalee's case, they already have the DNA replication, and it is only a matter of comparing that with the results of the DNA found in the tooth?

Isn't it amazing that DNA can remain in a tooth for so many years. 



see, that's why they would do a replication technique. Just one tooth. It's not like they have a jaw full of teeth to test over and over.

Replication takes time - you need the sample from the tooth and then the time it takes to produce more DNA -

In nature - the DNA "unzips" it's Helix and then is joined by new DNA called Polymerase III. These are encoded with the leading strand to the lagging strand.

This all then happens with RNA Pimase and Primer. In a lab this process is recreated. This is how replication occurs. That sample is then tested against the control sample, the tooth root DNA and any samples from Beth and previously from Natalee's clothes, hair brush, tooth brush, blood samples.. etc..

it takes some time to accomplish this, but it would be done as a last step as a final confirmation after mitochondrial DNA, denatl over-lays and cast comparisons. It would be a final 100% confirmation.

Any of those initial processes would lead the investigation to conclude it is Natalee or not, but in the event it is - and those first steps are confirmed - the final tests would be DNA to the (possible) 600th letter. That would be proof without a doubt. A 1 quadrillion % lock.

Gotcha thank you!
They know if Natalee is the bearer of the mandible by the first steps you mentioned. 

Next step - replication.

They have the control DNA and if it matches tooth DNA (replication) - it's proof positive and would stand in any court room.

confirm her death - but maybe not manner. Doubtful a mandible alone would confirm the cause of death, absent a gunshot wound.

So, just to recap - if the DNA is a match - it would be the first step - Natalee is deceased. The next step would be the Aruban prosecutor would be tasked to prove manner and cause - and we all know how willing they are to cross that bridge.
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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can
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« Reply #326 on: November 21, 2010, 09:32:47 PM »

I should add - since Beth's DNA is on hand from the test on June 12th 2005, a mitochondrial DNA test would confirm it is Natalee rather quickly.

In the event there is no mitochondrial DNA comparison - replication is essential. This would be used to compare to a tooth brush or hair brush - or even clothing with Touch DNA comparison using skin cells.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from every mother to every child.

So, once again, it is known through mitochondrial DNA, dental overlay using electronic records of the jaw bone, and any cast Dave sent to Holland. I am sure the results are known by now.

Thanks Rob for your fine explanation.

Think you are saying that in Natalee's case, they already have the DNA replication, and it is only a matter of comparing that with the results of the DNA found in the tooth?

Isn't it amazing that DNA can remain in a tooth for so many years. 



to add.  Thus, since they are testing against Beth's DNA - and I expect the family made sure they got samples of Natalee's DNA in '05 as well, the problem of using up all the DNA in the tooth, would not be an issue here?

can -  we don't know for a fact that they are testing against Beth's 05 sample. I just made the point that it's on file. It would be a natural starting point since it's in a computer data base somewhere.

Right.  Sorry Rob - thanks for your patience. 
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #327 on: November 21, 2010, 09:33:51 PM »

O/T

Glenda is parsing words again.  There is a well known anthropologist residing in Aruba. He probably made the initial identification.

Luc Alofs, anthropologist, curator of the Historical Museum Aruba

http://www.petergreenberg.com/2009/08/22/ask-the-locals-island-guide-aruba/

http://www.rnw.nl/caribiana/article/arubaanse-verkiezingen-platteland-versus-de-stad?quicktabs_1=1





Well, bless his heart! Now... I know that ol' boy can whistle like the dickens.    We need to hook him up with Oksana.

 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
can
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« Reply #328 on: November 21, 2010, 09:36:58 PM »

I should add - since Beth's DNA is on hand from the test on June 12th 2005, a mitochondrial DNA test would confirm it is Natalee rather quickly.

In the event there is no mitochondrial DNA comparison - replication is essential. This would be used to compare to a tooth brush or hair brush - or even clothing with Touch DNA comparison using skin cells.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed from every mother to every child.

So, once again, it is known through mitochondrial DNA, dental overlay using electronic records of the jaw bone, and any cast Dave sent to Holland. I am sure the results are known by now.

Thanks Rob for your fine explanation.

Think you are saying that in Natalee's case, they already have the DNA replication, and it is only a matter of comparing that with the results of the DNA found in the tooth?

Isn't it amazing that DNA can remain in a tooth for so many years. 



see, that's why they would do a replication technique. Just one tooth. It's not like they have a jaw full of teeth to test over and over.

Replication takes time - you need the sample from the tooth and then the time it takes to produce more DNA -

In nature - the DNA "unzips" it's Helix and then is joined by new DNA called Polymerase III. These are encoded with the leading strand to the lagging strand.

This all then happens with RNA Pimase and Primer. In a lab this process is recreated. This is how replication occurs. That sample is then tested against the control sample, the tooth root DNA and any samples from Beth and previously from Natalee's clothes, hair brush, tooth brush, blood samples.. etc..

it takes some time to accomplish this, but it would be done as a last step as a final confirmation after mitochondrial DNA, denatl over-lays and cast comparisons. It would be a final 100% confirmation.

Any of those initial processes would lead the investigation to conclude it is Natalee or not, but in the event it is - and those first steps are confirmed - the final tests would be DNA to the (possible) 600th letter. That would be proof without a doubt. A 1 quadrillion % lock.

Gotcha thank you!
They know if Natalee is the bearer of the mandible by the first steps you mentioned. 

Next step - replication.

They have the control DNA and if it matches tooth DNA (replication) - it's proof positive and would stand in any court room.

confirm her death - but maybe not manner. Doubtful a mandible alone would confirm the cause of death, absent a gunshot wound.

So, just to recap - if the DNA is a match - it would be the first step - Natalee is deceased. The next step would be the Aruban prosecutor would be tasked to prove manner and cause - and we all know how willing they are to cross that bridge.

Wow, I don't explain myself very well.  I meant it wouldn't be able to be refuted in a courtroom.  Proof, that is, that Natalee is deceased. 

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Northern Rose
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« Reply #329 on: November 21, 2010, 09:40:48 PM »

Here is a somewhat interesting thread about the jawbone found near the Phoenix, including a question from a tourist about whether the beach was closed and indignation that nothing was being done and also a post from someone who just returned from there, who described the abundance of things that came ashore and the use of 'heavy equipment' to remove it.   

http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=81560

I found this comment interesting.  Is the spin doctoring beginning?

arubamikey  Post subject: Re: Jaw bone found at the PhoenixPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:36 pm
 
It could be from the newlywed who went on a kayak with her husband in the early 1990's while on their honeymoon, and neither was ever seen again.



Yeah, I had similar thoughts...will have to do some digging on that.   

Not found anything in regards to a newlywed kayaking couple yet.  Did find this couple though from 2005:

<snipped>
Kendall Carver has formed the group International Cruise Victims together with others who have lost loved ones on a cruise. One of them is Son Michael Pham, the son of Hue Pham and Hue Tran.

In May 2005 they took a cruise with “Carnival Destiny” which sailed between Barbados and Aruba in the Caribbean.
Not much is known about the disappearance on “Destiny” on May 12th.

The search on board yielded no result, and no traces of them have ever been found. Did they commit suicide? Hardly. Both were in good heath, and they were looking forward to a long-planned cruise back to Vietnam to see their relatives again. They were two American citizens at the happiest time in their lives, but they disappeared without a trace or any witness, declares Son Michael Pham.

http://www.internationalcruisevictims.org/Articles/Disappeared_Without_A_Trace_On_A_Cruise_Ship.html
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can
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« Reply #330 on: November 21, 2010, 09:42:02 PM »

At airport waiting to board.

If they know the results and it's not Natalee but they are waiting to give the results HOW CRUEL IS THAT?

Too cruel, Taco Stein did say that the family would be notified first so I do have a sliver of hope that if it's not her...they have been notified.

But it's a itsy bitsy tee niny tiny sliver...

 


Yes he did but which family?  Anita and K2 so they can get out of dodge and cover?  Would not put it past Aruba to protect their own .

I wouldn't be surprised if Renfro finds out before the foreign press and
passes the news to Anita who will rush to the phone and call Joran.

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Northern Rose
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« Reply #331 on: November 21, 2010, 09:45:24 PM »

Single male Kayaker from 2003 off waters of Curacao but Aruba Sea and Rescue was looking for him.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=MDMfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HdAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3372,5062578&dq=kayak+aruba+missing&hl=en
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #332 on: November 21, 2010, 09:46:12 PM »

O/T

Glenda is parsing words again.  There is a well known anthropologist residing in Aruba. He probably made the initial identification.

Luc Alofs, anthropologist, curator of the Historical Museum Aruba

http://www.petergreenberg.com/2009/08/22/ask-the-locals-island-guide-aruba/

http://www.rnw.nl/caribiana/article/arubaanse-verkiezingen-platteland-versus-de-stad?quicktabs_1=1





Well, bless his heart! Now... I know that ol' boy can whistle like the dickens.    We need to hook him up with Oksana.

 
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can
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« Reply #333 on: November 21, 2010, 09:47:47 PM »

Good night Monkeys,
I have a question regarding the jaw found in Aruba. I know that it is a tooth attached to the jaw  but my questions is:....why the jay is detaches with the skull? with weather conditions and time, Will the tooth should fall out before the jaw detaches to the skull?

I heard Dr. Baden say that it's difficult for the jaw to become seperated so that the lower half is disjointed from the upper. It made me wonder if the separation was from an injury sustained at the time of death. Stephany's and Joran's encounter came to mind.

CBB - I have had the same horrible thought.
...or the separation was after her dead. If her skull was severe damaged maybe the aruban authorities separated the jaw from the skull to cover any kind of bad injury in her crane. In Stephany case we know that he used his elbow to hurt Stephany on her nose, maybe her upper jaw was detroyed.... Soon we will know the truth....

Stefany and Natalee might very well have sustained similar injuries from the brute, I agree.



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can
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« Reply #334 on: November 21, 2010, 09:53:36 PM »


Goodnight Monkeys.

Hopefully we'll have more answers tomorrow.

Justice for Natalee and Stefany!
 an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey
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carpe noctem
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« Reply #335 on: November 21, 2010, 09:55:25 PM »

I wish these guys would get on with it... got my toes tapping, over here.

I can understand wanting to get everything 100% correct... but I sure can't
accept it taking 1 second longer than needed. That would be cruel... and cruel
gets me angry.
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For Natalee and Stephany, whatever it takes.

-JUSTICE FOR NATALEE ANN - BOYCOTT ARUBA
------------------
"Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do." Thomas Jefferson
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."Thomas Jeff
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« Reply #336 on: November 21, 2010, 09:56:55 PM »


Goodnight Monkeys.

Hopefully we'll have more answers tomorrow.

Justice for Natalee and Stefany!
 an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey

Goodnight can, pleasant dreams.    Maybe there will be some news tomorrow. 
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« Reply #337 on: November 21, 2010, 09:57:09 PM »

Somewhere I remember the rumor of Joran using an aluminum bat ????
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #338 on: November 21, 2010, 10:02:32 PM »


Goodnight Monkeys.

Hopefully we'll have more answers tomorrow.

Justice for Natalee and Stefany!
 an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey

Goodnight can!!

Carpe, according to reports I've seen on CNN and Fox, we're in the cruel zone. Both networks have had scientists/forensic Physicians on that stated they know the identity by now.

Geraldo is on and will be covering the case.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #339 on: November 21, 2010, 10:04:08 PM »

Somewhere I remember the rumor of Joran using an aluminum bat ????

Diario … “THEY WENT INTO PANIC WHEN NATALEE REMAINED PASSED OUT”
Posted December 6, 2006 by Scared Monkeys

Comments


66.  viet vet on December 6th, 2006 8:11 pm

Speaking of off the record comments, we were told were to find Joran at the International School on a Friday , June 2 or 3, have it in my notes. Was also told Joran hit Natalee with an aluminum baseball bat…in the head. The same man told me both stories and guess what, Joran was at the International School that day, hiding. He was sleeping over there rather than home,,, scared he was. The fine Aruba Police followed us to the school that day or maybe we would already have solved this case. Yeah Karin, a bounch of cowboys…

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/12/06/diario-they-went-into-panic-when-natalee-remained-passed-out/
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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