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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #852 11/20/10 - 11/23/10  (Read 131352 times)
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Lisa in MD
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« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2010, 12:36:18 PM »

I wonder what the Kalpoe's are doing today?

If this jawbone tursn out to be the remains of Natalee Holloway, I wonder just how quick the Kalpoe's will go into hiding. More so than usual.

That door can swing both ways - How fast can they turn on Joran! 
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KatzHome
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« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2010, 12:36:30 PM »

I see no word yet.  We are going to be out and about today.  Will continue to check in from this bb. Smile

Good morning everyone! And hope you are having a good "vacation" Klaas!

That is such a BEAUTIFUL photo of Natalee...  an angelic monkey

I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, waiting and praying... I've never stopped praying that Natalee's remains be found... So hoping for Beth and Dave that Natalee one day be brought home... So much hope and trust in the Lord that this is finally the time...
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« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2010, 12:38:48 PM »

Just dropped by to say hello and to see what was up, if anything.  Have a good day and Happy Thanksgiving week to all. 

Hi Tyler, we are here waiting for the announcement of the test results if it is Natalee's jawbone or not.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

Morning all ...

I would also find it hard to believe that they do not know one way or the other whether the jaw belongs to Natalee or not. The fact that there has been no word yet leads me to believe that it is and the Dutch/Arubans have to get their ducks in a row and strategize damage control.

If the news is yes then this is going to begin a media frenzy and many will have egg on their face and blood on their hands.

Yeah, Red, I agree...

And Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours too!
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Lisa in MD
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« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2010, 12:40:26 PM »

What if they decide that even if they can't prosecute Joran at this time but they can charge the Kalpoes - That would be a total game changer for them don't you think?
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antunym
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« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2010, 12:41:13 PM »

I wonder what the Kalpoe's are doing today?

If this jawbone tursn out to be the remains of Natalee Holloway, I wonder just how quick the Kalpoe's will go into hiding. More so than usual.

It would be interesting to find out what the remains of Natalee will bring to light with what happened that last night she was with these creeps.. Maybe a skull fracture??  I wonder if there are any searches in progress there where the jaw bone was found.  Whether it was Natalee's or not, one would think there would be a thorough investigation going on in that area... but then again I'm talking about Aruba 
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antunym
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« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2010, 12:44:54 PM »

I wonder what the Kalpoe's are doing today?

If this jawbone tursn out to be the remains of Natalee Holloway, I wonder just how quick the Kalpoe's will go into hiding. More so than usual.

That door can swing both ways - How fast can they turn on Joran! 

Them dumb a$$'s better hurry up and talk before he pulls his lies on them first
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Rob
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« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2010, 12:46:19 PM »

Hi Rob - nice to see you.

I wish we knew if the tests have been completed and sent to Aruba.

Red, do you think Jossy would know?



nice to see you too, can.

I think the tests have been completed. It can't take more than 30 minutes to over-lay the electronic images with the images created of the new jaw bone. jmo.

even if teeth are missing - you can still see if the jaw bone alignment is a match.

This isn't super complicated.
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« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2010, 12:47:03 PM »


My hope is that Blanken notifies Natalee's family and gives them a day or two to absorb the news before releasing it to the world.

My prayer is that this is why they are waiting over the weekend to release any news.

My knowledge of the past behavior of the OM's office reminds me this is likely not the case.

Still... I pray.



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Lisa in MD
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« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2010, 12:48:19 PM »

I wonder what the Kalpoe's are doing today?

If this jawbone tursn out to be the remains of Natalee Holloway, I wonder just how quick the Kalpoe's will go into hiding. More so than usual.

It would be interesting to find out what the remains of Natalee will bring to light with what happened that last night she was with these creeps.. Maybe a skull fracture??  I wonder if there are any searches in progress there where the jaw bone was found.  Whether it was Natalee's or not, one would think there would be a thorough investigation going on in that area... but then again I'm talking about Aruba 
According to Jinkasauras no one is doing any searches they are all just waiting like us.  That's so sad
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Lisa in MD
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« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2010, 12:51:40 PM »


My hope is that Blanken notifies Natalee's family and gives them a day or two to absorb the news before releasing it to the world.

My prayer is that this is why they are waiting over the weekend to release any news.

My knowledge of the past behavior of the OM's office reminds me this is likely not the case.

Still... I pray.




  At the very least that would be the respectful thing to do but Aruba has never shown any respect for Beth or the Holloways. It would be nice to see the tables turn and they deserve that much! an angelic monkey
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Lisa in MD
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« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2010, 12:53:43 PM »

I wonder what the Kalpoe's are doing today?

If this jawbone tursn out to be the remains of Natalee Holloway, I wonder just how quick the Kalpoe's will go into hiding. More so than usual.

That door can swing both ways - How fast can they turn on Joran! 

Them dumb a$$'s better hurry up and talk before he pulls his lies on them first
I would lay money that the Kalpoes would turn before Joran does.  He's not going to admit that he's scared it's not his nature.
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wreck
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« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2010, 12:53:44 PM »

Morning AllÖ
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I donít mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  Itís been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just donít think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Nataleeís then they will have to face the situation and thatís not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isnít in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 ďWhere is the rest of her?Ē Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru Ė I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  Itís a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here Ė Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.


4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory Ė I donít believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&Cís to Approx 3:35 Joranís Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&Cís, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fishermanís hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I donít see that fitting with the timeline.

Iím not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us ďseeĒ this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please Ė What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  Sheís not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they donít want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just donít think that mandible was planted.  Itís more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.
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can
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« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2010, 12:53:46 PM »

Hi Rob - nice to see you.

I wish we knew if the tests have been completed and sent to Aruba.

Red, do you think Jossy would know?



nice to see you too, can.

I think the tests have been completed. It can't take more than 30 minutes to over-lay the electronic images with the images created of the new jaw bone. jmo.

even if teeth are missing - you can still see if the jaw bone alignment is a match.

This isn't super complicated.

Thanks and I agree Rob. 
According to Jinkasaurus, Pros. office are on stand-by around the clock.

What's the hold-up?!   
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wreck
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« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2010, 12:55:11 PM »

Hi Rob - nice to see you.

I wish we knew if the tests have been completed and sent to Aruba.

Red, do you think Jossy would know?



nice to see you too, can.

I think the tests have been completed. It can't take more than 30 minutes to over-lay the electronic images with the images created of the new jaw bone. jmo.

even if teeth are missing - you can still see if the jaw bone alignment is a match.

This isn't super complicated.

Thanks and I agree Rob. 
According to Jinkasaurus, Pros. office are on stand-by around the clock.

What's the hold-up?!   
They KNOW. If it wasn't her -- they would screaming to rafters.
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Lisa in MD
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« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2010, 12:58:42 PM »

Morning AllÖ
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I donít mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  Itís been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just donít think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Nataleeís then they will have to face the situation and thatís not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isnít in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 ďWhere is the rest of her?Ē Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru Ė I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  Itís a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here Ė Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.


4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory Ė I donít believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&Cís to Approx 3:35 Joranís Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&Cís, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fishermanís hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I donít see that fitting with the timeline.

Iím not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us ďseeĒ this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please Ė What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  Sheís not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they donít want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just donít think that mandible was planted.  Itís more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.
Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?
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can
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« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2010, 12:59:12 PM »

Hi Rob - nice to see you.

I wish we knew if the tests have been completed and sent to Aruba.

Red, do you think Jossy would know?



nice to see you too, can.

I think the tests have been completed. It can't take more than 30 minutes to over-lay the electronic images with the images created of the new jaw bone. jmo.

even if teeth are missing - you can still see if the jaw bone alignment is a match.

This isn't super complicated.

Thanks and I agree Rob. 
According to Jinkasaurus, Pros. office are on stand-by around the clock.

What's the hold-up?!   
They KNOW. If it wasn't her -- they would screaming to rafters.

 
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Rob
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« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2010, 01:02:42 PM »

I've had alot of theories about what happened to Natalee and where it happened. I eventually became convinced that whatever it was it happened at the Sloot's.

I did have one theory I posted about that still seems to ring true in my mind, and with all these new developments - well, I can't help but remember it.

As we all remember the last known point of any sighting was the LaCabana area heading north. Right after LaCabana is the bird sanctuary. I, at one time, suggested that these idiots may have entered the bird sanctuary and killed Natalee there. There are no cameras and it is secluded. This is where Deepak said to turn off the overhead porn on DVD.

When committing a crime like this you don't do it on the beach where someone can see you - you need privacy. They could have easily pulled into the bird sanctuary and committed this crime. There are some gates that open and close with a swinging arm type gate, but for the most part - it's not a very secured location. I think someone could enter at night and not be seen. There is high grass and that would obscure view.

If they left CnC at 1:08 am and ended up at the Sloot house at 1:40 - that leaves enough time to kill Natalee and run to Paulus.

One part that always seemed off or odd if you will - why would the Kalpoes load a dead girl into their car and chance all that blood all over the place. In my mind it is more likely that the crime must have taken place in the car due to the amount of blood the FBI said they observed. And we all know that there was something as it turned to chocolate and cleaning fluid.

So, if they were at the Sloots, it's unlikely that they re-loaded Natalee into their car, but may have taken a deceased Natalee to the Sloots after an assault at the bird sanctuary.

Paulus' and Anita's cars being confiscated makes sense that the crime may have occurred somewhere else and then one of those vehicles may have been used to move her once again - perhaps back to the bird sanctuary, or maybe Natalee was scattered around.

I guess there are thoughts that can lead you to believe that this crime could have happened in a number of places.
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wreck
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« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2010, 01:03:41 PM »

Morning AllÖ
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I donít mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  Itís been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just donít think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Nataleeís then they will have to face the situation and thatís not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isnít in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 ďWhere is the rest of her?Ē Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru Ė I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  Itís a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here Ė Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.


4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory Ė I donít believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&Cís to Approx 3:35 Joranís Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&Cís, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fishermanís hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I donít see that fitting with the timeline.

Iím not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us ďseeĒ this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please Ė What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  Sheís not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they donít want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just donít think that mandible was planted.  Itís more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.
Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?
They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.
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Lifesong
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« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2010, 01:05:21 PM »


I agree with you, Wreck, as to Lisa in MD's point #4.

Also:

All the signs point to the Gottenboes' boat being used in the disposal at sea.

I tend to think that Steve Croes, a thoroughly self-serving opportunist, merely thought he'd be paid handsomely by Deepak (using Paulus' money) to supply the eyewitness report to a Holiday Inn dropoff that never happened.


JMO and only MO
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antunym
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« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2010, 01:08:46 PM »

I wonder what the Kalpoe's are doing today?

If this jawbone tursn out to be the remains of Natalee Holloway, I wonder just how quick the Kalpoe's will go into hiding. More so than usual.

That door can swing both ways - How fast can they turn on Joran! 

Them dumb a$$'s better hurry up and talk before he pulls his lies on them first
I would lay money that the Kalpoes would turn before Joran does.  He's not going to admit that he's scared it's not his nature.

I'm amazed they haven't said anything yet to try to clear their name
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