Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #852 11/20/10 - 11/23/10

[Rob]

My hope is that Blanken notifies Natalee's family and gives them a day or two to absorb the news before releasing it to the world.

My prayer is that this is why they are waiting over the weekend to release any news.

My knowledge of the past behavior of the OM's office reminds me this is likely not the case.

Still... I pray.

somehow... I think the announcement will come on Wednesday night - right before thanksgiving. That's how they roll....that gives them a news blackout, basically.

maybe I'm wrong.

[Lisa in MD]

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

[2NJSons_Mom]

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

Both the dimensions & how far out the trap was have been posted multiple times.  I just was searching but can't spend the time, at the moment.  I think someone can point you in that direction.

[SuzieQ]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4641.0

Lisa, there are pictures, dimensions and what ever you need at the above thread.

[SuzieQ]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.0

And here. This thread by Blonde.

[Lisa in MD]

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

Both the dimensions & how far out the trap was have been posted multiple times.  I just was searching but can't spend the time, at the moment.  I think someone can point you in that direction.

I understand, It just seems to me that if the crab trap theory was correct then more than just the mandible would have washed ashore by now and given the storms maybe on other parts of the beach. JMHO

[Magnolia]

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck.  Our "theories" did not come easily.

The trap was, I believe, 7.5' x 7.5' x 2'.  It was found close to 2 miles off of Arishi Beach
at a depth of 90'.

[Lisa in MD]

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

Both the dimensions & how far out the trap was have been posted multiple times.  I just was searching but can't spend the time, at the moment.  I think someone can point you in that direction.

I understand, It just seems to me that if the crab trap theory was correct then more than just the mandible would have washed ashore by now and given the storms maybe on other parts of the beach. JMHO

Again Thanks SusieQ - here is what I found there...

.  DECEMBER 30, 2007 - 2ND ROV DIVE - VISUAL INSPECTION

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman: The famous "thumbs down" - Tim Trahan said he could not conclusively see human skeletal remains. The signals were: One thumb up for skeletal remains (body), two thumbs up for Natalee. When Tim came out of the water as seen on camera in the Dateline special, he was winded from the dive and gave a short answer of "No, nothing". He (along with many of us) were expecting something very clear and immediately identifiable …

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

[snoopy]

I'll bet Rob is right that we'll have to wait until Wednesday.

God Bless Natalee's Family.

Snoopy Courtois  RIP  7-27-1995   11-20-2010  Best dog in the world.

[Lisa in MD]

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck.  Our "theories" did not come easily.

The trap was, I believe, 7.5' x 7.5' x 2'.  It was found close to 2 miles off of Arishi Beach
at a depth of 90'.

Look Monkey, I didn’t say anything about a Turnip Truck I think there are some extreamly bright Monkeys here and I am Friend Not Foe – Just a Friend with a different opnion!

As for all of that hard work – Yes, I agree and it is well appreciated too!

[Tamikosmom]

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 01:28:45 PM »

.... Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366260#msg366260


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #176 on: March 19, 2008, 07:27:10 PM »

.... The trap's doop is usually fastened to the outside of the trap. It was laying inside the trap, as if pushed open. The contents sampled inside the trap were laying on top of the door. The trap was found in 90 ft.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366832;topicseen#msg366832


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  .... Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach.

Kermit

[Magnolia]

I'll bet Rob is right that we'll have to wait until Wednesday.

God Bless Natalee's Family.

Snoopy Courtois  RIP  7-27-1995   11-20-2010  Best dog in the world.

Snoopy,
I am so sorry.  I know that your heart is aching.

[Blue Moon]

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck.  Our "theories" did not come easily.

The trap was, I believe, 7.5' x 7.5' x 2'.  It was found close to 2 miles off of Arishi Beach
at a depth of 90'.

Look Monkey, I didn’t say anything about a Turnip Truck I think there are some extreamly bright Monkeys here and I am Friend Not Foe – Just a Friend with a different opnion!

As for all of that hard work – Yes, I agree and it is well appreciated too!

Do you know something we don't?  Just asking is all. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

I'll bet Rob is right that we'll have to wait until Wednesday.

God Bless Natalee's Family.

Snoopy Courtois  RIP  7-27-1995   11-20-2010  Best dog in the world.

 

[wreck]

Lisa, no one is disrespecting you at all. I think you are just not up to speed as most of us. We are not saying that the mandible floated out of the trap (although it is a remote possibility). The Arubans dove on that trap and removed it's contents. Where that mandible has been is anyone's guess.

[Lisa in MD]

Morning All…
Thanks again to all of you Monkeys for help with maps and timelines on the Jetty Theory.  I know that some of you are not buying it but then again it is just a theory and one of many.
I don’t mean to rattle the cage and this is not directed at anyone just my thoughts so please keep in mind this is not an argument it is a discussion.  It’s been a long 5.5 yrs for all of us but we get more bananas working together!
I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  My questions and reasons are:
1)   Why now? Aruba has never given one iota of a care as to what Beth says or does.  If the mandible is Natalee’s then they will have to face the situation and that’s not going to make it go away. It just brings it to the forefront with a lot of explaining to do on their part. It shows GUILT and that isn’t in their best interest. There is no gain for Aruba to plant the mandible. 
 “Where is the rest of her?” Those are headlines that they do not want. 

2)   The Extradition Theory - Joran/ Peru – I originally asked what the protocol would be on the charges and it was brought to our attention that Peru does not have an extradition treaty with Aruba or the Neitherlands and those officials know that.  So the theory of planting the mandible to gain extradition of Joran from Peru to Aruba or the Neitherlands is zilch.

3)    Someone asked how the mandible could have washed ashore when there are no shells that washed up at that time in that area.  It’s a good question and can be explained coinciding with the Jetty Theory.

(If the storm caused a hydraulic (a swirl of the water) next to the jetty it would create a pressure - sort of like a blender.  That pressure can create a vacuum and if it was close enough it could pull things into it and spin or spit them out into the ocean.  Since the ocean is shallow in that area with jetties on both sides the item would wash in with the tide.) shallow being the optimum word here – Anything from deep sea that washes ashore between those jetties has to rise above the sea wall first that is why that part of the beach is so clean.

4)   Vs. the Crab trap theory – I don’t believe the crab trap theory because of the timeline.  They only had approx 1.5 hours.

(from the SM timeline 1:45 leaving C&C’s to Approx 3:35 Joran’s Computer Document.  This gives them 1 hour and 50 minutes to: Leave C&C’s, drive around, kill her, dispose of the body and return home.  If you take off 10 minutes off driving time and 10 minutes to get home and on the computer they would have only had an hour and a half)

With the Crab trap theory they would have to kill her, panic, figure out a plan, call for a boat, break into the fisherman’s hut, put her in the trap, carry the trap to meet up with the boat, go far out to sea and return home in that time.  I don’t see that fitting with the timeline.

I’m not happy with TM for his last remarks on Watts-Up but he did a lot of hard work on this case and I know he would not collude with the Arubans on any type of a cover up.  Just because someone can electronically superimpose a photo of Natalee in the trap to try to make us “see” this theory does not make it so.  Seeing has become believing in this case but I personally am just not convinced.

5)   The Anita plant Theory: Please – What Mother would ever do something like that knowing that it would show cause to believe her son murdered Natalee?  Anita is in denial.  She’s not going to hand us proof. And according to recent reports prior to the mandible Peru may only sentence Joran to 6 yrs.  She reads and keeps up with all of this just like the rest of us she probably knew that before we did. There would be no good outcome or reason for her to plant the Mandible.

6)   The Kalpoe plant Theory: No way, especially with the Dr. Phil court date looming up in Feb. they don’t want any kind of news that will implicate them.

I just don’t think that mandible was planted.  It’s more likely they buried Natalee in one of those jetties and a part broke loose and washed ashore.

I disagree with point # 4. You are assuming Natalee was put in that trap on the night of May 30th. Many of us believe she was put there days later.

Okay so what is the theory on how many days later and where was she kept in the mean time?

They had 10 days before they were arrested. Many of us think she was buried in a temporary grave and then disposed of by Paulus and/or ALE.

Well, That could be because I do agree there was a cover up but, I am not discarding the Jetty Theory.  Did anyone get demensions on that trap? and how far out was it found?

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck.  Our "theories" did not come easily.

The trap was, I believe, 7.5' x 7.5' x 2'.  It was found close to 2 miles off of Arishi Beach
at a depth of 90'.

Look Monkey, I didn’t say anything about a Turnip Truck I think there are some extreamly bright Monkeys here and I am Friend Not Foe – Just a Friend with a different opnion!

As for all of that hard work – Yes, I agree and it is well appreciated too!

Do you know something we don't?  Just asking is all. 

No, I have been here right along with you from the beginning I just started posting on the forum although I was reading it all along.  When the mandible washed up I just started thinking and it lead to a different theory as to where it washed up.  I know we don't even know for sure that it is Natalee but I have a feeling of hope that it is. I love being here with you monkeys and I am not trying to ruffle fur.  I just have a different Theory and it could be proven wrong along with the best of them and then again maybe it could be proven right!

[Shy Monkey]

Snoopy, our thoughts and prayers are with you...we have two precious little rescue dogs that we love so much.   I hope this will help comfort you... I don't know who the author is so I am unable to give due credit.


Little Angels Poem

Little angels from up above
sent to us so full of love.
Never judging, always there
a faithful heart that is so rare.

Gentle eyes, shining bright
an energy of holy light.
Loyalty, that is unmatched
so easily we are attached.

A love so pure, none to compare
sweet memories that we have shared.
Never could one ever dream
the impact from this little being.

They touch our lives, more than we know
we live with them and watch them grow.
Share our laughs and our cries
always soothed by loving eyes.

Little angels so strong and true
they live their lives just for you.
"Good bye" for now, we will meet again
my sweet and pure angelic friend.

[Rob]

Lisa, no one is disrespecting you at all. I think you are just not up to speed as most of us. We are not saying that the mandible floated out of the trap (although it is a remote possibility). The Arubans dove on that trap and removed it's contents. Where that mandible has been is anyone's guess.

right!!

and Aruba had 4 hurricanes since Natalee was murdered. That includes Tomas.

Lotta hurricanes for a hurricane free island.

[MuffyBee]

I'll bet Rob is right that we'll have to wait until Wednesday.

God Bless Natalee's Family.

Snoopy Courtois  RIP  7-27-1995   11-20-2010  Best dog in the world.

I'm so sorry.      

[Blue Moon]

Isn't is very strange that Greta has not mentioned anything about Natalee on her blog?  I was just in there reading over it and, unless I missed it, I cannot find a mention of it.  Very strange to me.