Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #852 11/20/10 - 11/23/10

[Magnolia]

CBS42 Birmingham just had the report...they had Jossy on the phone.  He said
that Hurricane Tomas was powerful enough to completely reverse the currents
in the ocean.  Instead of taking things out to sea, it washed things into shore.

Then Tim Miller was on by phone.  He said that this bone probably came from
one of his previously located 141 targets and the strong current let some of
the small bones escape the container.  He said by following the currents they
can narrow the targets down to about 50 instead of 141 and locate the one
holding the rest of the remains.  He said that they have a boat in Trinadad on
standby ready to go and retrieve the targets and they hope to have all of Natalee's
remains home by Christmas.  He said the search will begin in less than two weeks.

Tim Miller said that he has been in constant contact with Dave and Dave is
cautiously optimistic.

Thanks Magnolia!   

Now I think I'm going to be sick!   

That boat in Trinidad just stays on stand-by for these guys doesn't it?  Can't help but wonder what's up with that? 

I just wrote what was said.  Notice I didn't even add and eyeroll or a dancing monkey.

I believe Jossy about the reversed currents.

[klaasend]

I'm still hung up on whether the jawbone washed up or whether it was planted, so I'm just going to put this out there for thought.  The Bubali Bird Sanctuary is just that, a Sanctuary, so they would not have drained the marsh when she first went missing, as it would cause harm to the bird habitat.  Just seeing how the Aruba authorities are, I just don't think they would have drained it.  Too big to drain IMO

So, the last week of October and the first week of November, hurricane Tomas churns around in the southern Caribbean, with a turn to the north.  Aruba is known by it's locals as the "hurricane graveyard", where hurricanes die and throw their after effects off on Aruba.  Then while this is going on, a large storm moves off the northern coast of Venezuela and over Aruba.  The combination of all this rain has caused the bird sanctuary marsh to "overflow", and push water through the wash and out into the ocean. (just south of Divi Phoenix).  Then the winds (and it's crazy windy down there anyway, couple that with a strong storm system) kick up these huge waves that start throwing shells and tons of seaweed back on shore.

What if she had been placed in the marsh, her remains stayed there until the rains, then the remains were washed out into the ocean, and then the strong waves washed her remains back in ?  Possible but more likely she was in a trap/cage and the jawbone fell away from the rest and was washed ashore due to Hurricane Tomas

I just can't get past the idea that after 5 years, bones are just now washing up on shore.  It's either something as simple as described above, or else something very hinky is going on (not that we're surprised by that).  We may never know.  Aruba does not normally get the kind of storms that they got with Tomas, so maybe it's different because of Tomas.

Sorry for the rambling, just thinking out loud  

My comments in red above.

[2NJSons_Mom]

CBS42 Birmingham just had the report...they had Jossy on the phone.  He said
that Hurricane Tomas was powerful enough to completely reverse the currents
in the ocean.  Instead of taking things out to sea, it washed things into shore.

Then Tim Miller was on by phone.  He said that this bone probably came from
one of his previously located 141 targets and the strong current let some of
the small bones escape the container.  He said by following the currents they
can narrow the targets down to about 50 instead of 141 and locate the one
holding the rest of the remains.  He said that they have a boat in Trinadad on
standby ready to go and retrieve the targets and they hope to have all of Natalee's
remains home by Christmas.  He said the search will begin in less than two weeks.

Tim Miller said that he has been in constant contact with Dave and Dave is
cautiously optimistic.

Thanks Magnolia!   

Now I think I'm going to be sick!   

That boat in Trinidad just stays on stand-by for these guys doesn't it?  Can't help but wonder what's up with that? 

I just wrote what was said.  Notice I didn't even add and eyeroll or a dancing monkey.

I believe Jossy about the reversed currents.

Someone posted on one of those bulletin boards about the reversal of currents or the winds....I think it was the thread I posted about the weather several days back.  I believe it, too, Magnolia.

[texasmom]

I'm still hung up on whether the jawbone washed up or whether it was planted, so I'm just going to put this out there for thought.  The Bubali Bird Sanctuary is just that, a Sanctuary, so they would not have drained the marsh when she first went missing, as it would cause harm to the bird habitat.  Just seeing how the Aruba authorities are, I just don't think they would have drained it. 

So, the last week of October and the first week of November, hurricane Tomas churns around in the southern Caribbean, with a turn to the north.  Aruba is known by it's locals as the "hurricane graveyard", where hurricanes die and throw their after effects off on Aruba.  Then while this is going on, a large storm moves off the northern coast of Venezuela and over Aruba.  The combination of all this rain has caused the bird sanctuary marsh to "overflow", and push water through the wash and out into the ocean. (just south of Divi Phoenix).  Then the winds (and it's crazy windy down there anyway, couple that with a strong storm system) kick up these huge waves that start throwing shells and tons of seaweed back on shore.

What if she had been placed in the marsh, her remains stayed there until the rains, then the remains were washed out into the ocean, and then the strong waves washed her remains back in ? 

I just can't get past the idea that after 5 years, bones are just now washing up on shore.  It's either something as simple as described above, or else something very hinky is going on (not that we're surprised by that).

Sorry for the rambling, just thinking out loud 

JMO FloridaKatz,  but the same reasons for believing she may have washed out to sea from there... are the very same reasons she would have never been left there.

They all KNEW it was a possibility!

And it would have been too much of a risk of her being found by other means.

Again, JMO.

[akmom]

We had Channel 3 Eyewitness News, Hallie Jackson, at our home tonight. (I mentioned this in an earlier post)  It was very nerve wracking but we all got through it.  They are putting it on the air tonight at 11:00PM Eastern time.  They mentioned that CNN would probably used some of the video clips too at some point.  I feel so relieved that we should all find out tomorrow whether the DNA matches Natalee.   I am praying.....

If you wouldn't mind a question.  Did you say that your husband wanted to look for Natalee while he was on leave(I hope I am not confusing you with someone else).  Has he been a member of this forum or another?  How did he come to be so interested in Natalee's case??

You are confusing kkathy with me.  It was my husband that wanted to look for Natalee while he was on leave.  He lurks on SM when he's not in the Middle East, but he doesn't post.  No, he's not a member of any other forum that I know of.  He too is from Alabama, and we've been doing SAR for almost 20 years.  We've been married for 21 yrs.  We also did SAR on the Caylee Anthony case.

Thank you for your answer.  You did not find the other bone or anything else then, correct??

No, eventhough we were at the same area that the bone was found on the day before, we didn't find anything but a big pile of conch shells.  I wish we had found it, as I think my husband would have handled it differently than what has happened here.  I think he probably would have contacted the FBI to determine how to get it to them  and not into the hands of the Aruban authorities.


Fixed post within quote.

Thank you so much for being patient with my confusion.  And please thank your husband for me for his service to our country.  We are retired Air Force, but mine never had to deploy.

[IBE]

so "sad" not so "said" Be back later. Finding comfort food.. chicken noodle soup or tomato.

Love ya, IBE! Go chicken noodle... it`s my favorite... I can never get enough of it.   It is comforting.

Ran out of both so settled for crackers, peanut butter, and tea/honey.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-puzzles.htm electronic jigsaw puzzles. No table mess! Goes along with comfort food and when you can't sleep. Clicking on the big images below the puzzle will lead you to home/garden, geography et al subjects of puzzles.  Clicking on "more" will show you more puzzles under the same subject.

My favorite ones are under Science... the ones with the bottles going to the right and the space launches. Then again, the sunflowers are fun.

I am on dial up so I go to the puzzle I want, have it go apart or whatever the name is then go off line and can keep doing it over and over by clicking on the same picture below. My computer works faster than dial up. Then I go back online.

This is a good site to pass time and not bite the fingers or get more gray hairs. Careful, is addicting but will help the time go by until tomorrow. PS closing eyes when puzzle breaks apart helps otherwise, I can "cheat".

[crazybabyborg]

With all those who have gathered and are just temporarily away, here holding out hope for Natalee:

CBB, akmom, Maw, Lady Devon, PJ, snoopy, Mere, macy, atlgirl, carpe noctem, pinetucky, Chata, Green Eyes, spooky112483, pink angel, texasmom, Tamikosmom, MuffyBee, sb, Frijole, littlebuddy598, BabsKats, melliebell, annintex, Judge Mental, Helen Back, Alabamaanna, 7227, 2NJSons_Mom, windy city, sandy leiva, islandmonkey, BlueKYGirl, klaasend, Frank, Magnolia, Northern Rose, FloridaKatz, callie4u and 52 Guests are viewing this topic.

[Magnolia]

Forgot until just now....Tim Miller also said:  We'll probably also find her clothes in that container.

[Tamikosmom]

Why do Tim Miller, John Silvetti and Francis Schaefer refuse to accept the word of the ship's ROV operator/analyst in his professional determination that nothing Natalee Holloway case related is in those targets?

Janet

+++++


NO RELEVANCE - MARCH 3, 2008

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2008, 05:47:47 PM »

Several hours of footage were of other (ROV) dives on other targets. None were of any relevance. Most targets were of peculiar coral pinnacles, man-made debris, and ship wrecks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360047;topicseen#msg360047


NO POTENTIAL INTEREST - JUNE 28, 2008

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The logs are in a safe somewhere. John and Ryan Poff (one of John's project managers) knows where it is. I can't get copies of the logs at this time. Perhaps in a few months. The target locations are in the safe, although I also have them in a safe spot.  I don't care about the other targets though. I don't think any of it is of any potential interest. Mainly junk, coral, and debris. (06/28/08)

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[texasmom]

CBS42 Birmingham just had the report...they had Jossy on the phone.  He said
that Hurricane Tomas was powerful enough to completely reverse the currents
in the ocean.  Instead of taking things out to sea, it washed things into shore.

Then Tim Miller was on by phone.  He said that this bone probably came from
one of his previously located 141 targets and the strong current let some of
the small bones escape the container.  He said by following the currents they
can narrow the targets down to about 50 instead of 141 and locate the one
holding the rest of the remains.  He said that they have a boat in Trinadad on
standby ready to go and retrieve the targets and they hope to have all of Natalee's
remains home by Christmas.  He said the search will begin in less than two weeks.

Tim Miller said that he has been in constant contact with Dave and Dave is
cautiously optimistic.

Thanks Magnolia!  

Now I think I'm going to be sick!  

That boat in Trinidad just stays on stand-by for these guys doesn't it?  Can't help but wonder what's up with that?  

Had the same thought, TM.   Have had the targets in mind with all of this and the cross Dave found near the beach.  Now, all of a sudden another search is a 'go'.  I guess that means that means they have about a 5th of the million to do a partial.   Whatever.  

Sorry, I was stuttering. 

Or maybe they won't need much funding at all...maybe some powers that be in Aruba want them to come back and "find" again...what they found three years ago; and bring her home this time....to get some monkeys off their backs!

[IBE]

Finally, with the Cambell's chicken noodle with less salt I can taste the chicken and the noodles. Thanks Klaas, for letting us do O/T on comfort food while we wait.

Justice for Natalee and all that are suffering.

[FloridaKatz]

We had Channel 3 Eyewitness News, Hallie Jackson, at our home tonight. (I mentioned this in an earlier post)  It was very nerve wracking but we all got through it.  They are putting it on the air tonight at 11:00PM Eastern time.  They mentioned that CNN would probably used some of the video clips too at some point.  I feel so relieved that we should all find out tomorrow whether the DNA matches Natalee.   I am praying.....

If you wouldn't mind a question.  Did you say that your husband wanted to look for Natalee while he was on leave(I hope I am not confusing you with someone else).  Has he been a member of this forum or another?  How did he come to be so interested in Natalee's case??

You are confusing kkathy with me.  It was my husband that wanted to look for Natalee while he was on leave.  He lurks on SM when he's not in the Middle East, but he doesn't post.  No, he's not a member of any other forum that I know of.  He too is from Alabama, and we've been doing SAR for almost 20 years.  We've been married for 21 yrs.  We also did SAR on the Caylee Anthony case.

Thank you for your answer.  You did not find the other bone or anything else then, correct??

No, eventhough we were at the same area that the bone was found on the day before, we didn't find anything but a big pile of conch shells.  I wish we had found it, as I think my husband would have handled it differently than what has happened here.  I think he probably would have contacted the FBI to determine how to get it to them  and not into the hands of the Aruban authorities.


Fixed post within quote.

Thank you so much for being patient with my confusion.  And please thank your husband for me for his service to our country.  We are retired Air Force, but mine never had to deploy.

Will do, thanks so much !  Thanks to your husband too !!!

[akmom]

Forgot until just now....Tim Miller also said:  We'll probably also find her clothes in that container.

I am trying hard not to be furious, as I believe that container was a baggie in a drawer

I feel as though we are at a vigil, waiting..... I am having trouble leaving....

[texasmom]

Forgot until just now....Tim Miller also said:  We'll probably also find her clothes in that container.

Wonder if they'll still be in the ziplock baggies!  

Tim Miller sounds mighty confident about all of this!  


 

[texasmom]

Forgot until just now....Tim Miller also said:  We'll probably also find her clothes in that container.

I am trying hard not to be furious, as I believe that container was a baggie in a drawer

I feel as though we are at a vigil, waiting..... I am having trouble leaving....

I am furious, and I should probably take another break...

but like you...I'm having trouble leaving. 

[Magnolia]

Forgot until just now....Tim Miller also said:  We'll probably also find her clothes in that container.

Wonder if they'll still be in the ziplock baggies!  

Tim Miller sounds mighty confident about all of this!  


 

I was waiting for him to ask for donations...but it wasn't mentioned.  Neither did
he mention Silvetti or Shaeffer.

[klaasend]

Forgot until just now....Tim Miller also said:  We'll probably also find her clothes in that container.

We know

[snoopy]

Well sumpin ain't right I'll tell ya that.  All of a sudden a search is being put in play.  Got a boat just waiting......oh and prolly find her clothes too.   Have her home by Christmas..............

If they find her in one of those 141 other targets.............(seriously shaking head)

I believe with all my heart they had her 2 years ago.

[akmom]

Forgot until just now....Tim Miller also said:  We'll probably also find her clothes in that container.

I am trying hard not to be furious, as I believe that container was a baggie in a drawer

I feel as though we are at a vigil, waiting..... I am having trouble leaving....

I am furious, and I should probably take another break...

but like you...I'm having trouble leaving. 

Yep, years before I talked, I would read here, but with all the code talk I was so freaked out that I had to step away.  I just never knew that so much evil existed.  I will probably sleep with the TV on again tonight....the news alert music from Fox should wake me up....

[snoopy]

I don't want to leave either.  I just want Natalee brought home so bad.  Hubby told me tonight to please not get so worked up like I did years ago.  I do believe I was here 24/7 lol  But I can't help it.  I can't even begin to imagine what Dave and Beth are going through.  God Bless them.