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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 - 11/26/10  (Read 146920 times)
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Magnolia
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« Reply #500 on: November 23, 2010, 06:34:06 PM »


<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.
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« Reply #501 on: November 23, 2010, 06:34:21 PM »

I was here about 1/2 an hour ago, had something typed out, computer went all loopy so I had to shut down & run a scan. I clicked on something while googling last night...at least now I know why my google translate wouldn't go through. All fixed.


I have a question for anyone that may know. My mind cannot get rid of the thought Joran laughed when the news of the mandible hit the media. Why laugh? Why? Does he know that there's no way for the jaw bone to wash ashore or something? It's made me think of something. Going back to the fisherman's hut break-in, and keeping in mind the fisherman's knife that was stolen:
1- Would a body burn faster if it were dismembered?
2- Were there any bonfires and/or regular fire that night?
3- Is there a place where the fisherman dump the fish waste?
4- If there is an "industrial sized" fish waste site, could Natalee have been dismembered and her blood/organs mixed with the fish waste?
5- Could her remains have been incinerated either by bonfire or another method then thrown into the sand or ocean? If so, wouldn't something stronger than a simple fire have to be used?
6- I do believe Natalee was thrown out to sea, but in the case that she may not have been, where could her body have been stored (if it wasn't dismembered right away) and not have left any trace evidence behind?

I believe Lorenzo is involved & have thought so since the beginning, I believe the Kalpoe's are just as much involved as Joran, I believe Paulus knew what happened & helped to dispose of Natalee in covering up the crime scene, I believe Anita is a wench that has never held her kids accountable and this is the outcome of her child rearing abilities, I believe the Aruban authorities are well aware of what Lorenzo did/does & are probably in on it - maybe even getting kickbacks so to speak, I believe Joran was a big part of making Lorenzo wealthy - as well as Paulus, I believe Aruban officials knew for YEARS what their island was beling used for and didn't do a damn thing about it (ie: sex trafficking, drug drop offs & pick ups, money laundering, etc), I believe Joran isn't afraid of a single thing and that is something that has been learned over the years therefore he hasn't a conscience, I believe alot of things in regards to Natalee's disappearance but one thing I know[/] for certain is that I'll never visit Aruba again.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that Joran's laughing at the notion that NH's jawbone was found.. suggests that he fully knows that (a) her body would never have been discovered there, or (b) her body is not able to be discovered.

Concerning Aruba...It is common knowledge that it is a money laundering island. It is also a transit spot for drug shipment. There is sex trafficking on the island. There is a strong Dutch presence on the island. Those who are politically connected or in the aforementioned trades are above the law. This case has always been about tourism, not NH, to Aruba. There must be good money to wash bad money.

Our theories change from time to time. Only the perpetrators (and peripheral players) of the crime know EXACTLY what happened that night.

I like this theory (of course, plus or minus some details):
*PVDS/JVDS at casino with NH and friends.
*J2K arrive about an hour before close of CnC
*Spiked/unspiked alcoholic drinks served to NH, compliments of JVDS. Taxi scheme departure with J2K + NH.
*J2K + NH drive around a bit..Drug(s) take effect. Arrive at: (A) Secluded, non-tourist spot (rock scene?) OR (B) SlootHome
*Sexual assault. NH expires at: (A) SlootHome, OR (B) K2 vehicle.
*Panic. PVDS contacted. Takes control of situation. (Alibis. Online chats, porn site downloads, etc..)
*Heavy, Awkward body is temporarily hidden.
*Late night communication(s)/sightings/withdrawls. 630AM phone call.
*Long, exhausting night. No school. No work.
*Poolside meeting. No Body / No Case.
*Paulus contacts Jacobs / Straaten.
*5-8PM Racquet Club / Gym Bag / Tennis Instructions. Bag of Evidence and meeting with Gottenbos (The Boat). Boat Disposal?
*1000PM Heads up given on BHT arrival.
*Group arrives, wild gooses around island. Game - already fixed.
*Disinformation campaign to confuse and mislead. Unexplainable ALE behavior.
*Blocked assistance by other outside accredited international agencies. Allows for less transparency.

The crime was fairly simple...
The cover-up has been never-ending...

Where is her body? The million dollar question...For me, ideas include: Incinerator, Sloot property, Ocean, Grave.

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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #502 on: November 23, 2010, 06:38:43 PM »

Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



Excellent post CBB.

Janet

++++++

Face to Face with Joran

Beth Holloway


'There is more to come there is more to come.'

September, 2010

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/archief/de-confrontatie-tussen-beth-en-joran/


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« Reply #503 on: November 23, 2010, 06:40:20 PM »

I am terribly disappointed in the news.
The way this way handled, no surprise. 
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carpe noctem
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History repeats itself. It's a cyclical beast.


« Reply #504 on: November 23, 2010, 06:54:14 PM »

6:00 pm

Oh looky here, Ingmar.... this one has a wisdom tooth, and we know Natalee had hers removed.

I do believe we have ruled this out.

We don`t need to bring CNN into this.

Where is my phone, swa?

6:10 pm
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For Natalee and Stephany, whatever it takes.

-JUSTICE FOR NATALEE ANN - BOYCOTT ARUBA
------------------
"Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do." Thomas Jefferson
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."Thomas Jeff
nimrod
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« Reply #505 on: November 23, 2010, 06:56:42 PM »


<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.

Then you saw something that I never saw.
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #506 on: November 23, 2010, 06:56:58 PM »

Maybe Tim Miller can go and get that boat that is standing by in Trinadad and
start his search, that he has talked so much about, and find Natalee and her
clothes and have her home by Christmas.

What is stopping him?

To quote Robots..."I hate them all."

I am at a loss for words and as most all of you know, that rarely happens.

The Persistance goes to Aruba 3 years ago and maps some 300 possible search sites. Are they actually searched, nah ... they go home.

I jaw bone is discovered in Aruba and suddenly all the clammer from Tim is that 300 areas were targeted in Aruba and that he and TES are going back to Aruba to search. Now that the jaw bone is determined not to be that of Natalee, the searches are off?

Um, what changed?

So the areas would only be searched if the jaw bone was Natalee's? Why was the mapping done in the first place if there was never any intention of actually searching what was mapped? Obviously every one can see how ignorant a premise that is.

If those who went on the persistance are so sure that she is in the water and one of the 300 targeted areas, then search em or shut up!

Why would anyone think that Natalee is in the ocean, map the area and then never do follow up? I will stop before my Italian temper comes out.

As I said before...Tim Miller may have the best intentions in the world, BUT..........................

He dropped the ball on the last search, though. Kinda seems like he was compromised as a person for the almighty dollar.

Kinda weird hearing him talk today about his old buddies (Schaeffer, Silvetti..might as well have thrown Kingman[OE] in there) due to the fact that they were all present during the search and allowed (intentionally or unintentionally) potential crucial evidence to get whisked away by the Aruban authorities. It was on their watch, right under their collective noses.

About the ocean search...
*Items were stolen from the huts, including large crab trap (cage).
*Joran admitted to a disposal at sea (whether believed or not). Gottenbos boat?
*Persistence goes to Aruba to search for a cage in the ocean with possible NH remains.
*They accomplished their mission. Persistence locates large crab trap in ocean (as sought).
*Trained experts (Kyle, Tim Miller) said that human remains, cloth/material appeared to be inside the cage.
*Aruba (stalls and) tells crew they need Holland assistance.
*Certain members were then removed from the vessel and deemed liabilities.
*Suspected shady characters boarded the Persistence, including HansMos.
*CAPSLOCKWIZARD appeared and began a disinformation campaign. (CAPSLOCKWIZARD was proved to be full of shit).
*ALE arrived in a smaller boat, dove the cage, recovered its contents, and left the scene.
*The trap was publicly deemed to be irrelevant and no further explanation (to date) has been given.
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klaasend
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« Reply #507 on: November 23, 2010, 07:00:47 PM »


<snipped>

But I agree - that jawbone likely slipped thru the bottom of that cage at some point before Persistence found it.


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap. ....

Kermit
 




Kyle was wrong. His overlay of Natalee's body in the trap was wrong and was extremely cruel to her family..........imo.

I beg to differ, Nimrod.  I could see the same thing that Kyle saw and I believe it
was Natalee's remains in that trap/cage.

Then you saw something that I never saw.




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« Reply #508 on: November 23, 2010, 07:04:43 PM »

6:00 pm

Oh looky here, Ingmar.... this one has a wisdom tooth, and we know Natalee had hers removed.

I do believe we have ruled this out.

We don`t need to bring CNN into this.

Where is my phone, swa?

6:10 pm

Carpe --

NEWSFLASH:

Timmy and Turbo (the WonderDog) leaving Trinidad now to search entire ocean for Nat's teeth.
CAPSLOCKWIZARD, HansMos, and JanVanderStraaten will be coordinating the search effort from land.
All evidence will be driven to short by SteveCroes (Tattoo) and filed away by Dennis Jacobs (the Cornflake kid).

BUCKSHOT
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #509 on: November 23, 2010, 07:06:57 PM »

6:00 pm

Oh looky here, Ingmar.... this one has a wisdom tooth, and we know Natalee had hers removed.

I do believe we have ruled this out.

We don`t need to bring CNN into this.

Where is my phone, swa?

6:10 pm

Carpe --

NEWSFLASH:

Timmy and Turbo (the WonderDog) leaving Trinidad now to search entire ocean for Nat's teeth.
CAPSLOCKWIZARD, HansMos, and JanVanderStraaten will be coordinating the search effort from land.
All evidence will be driven to shore by SteveCroes (Tattoo) and filed away by Dennis Jacobs (the Cornflake kid).

BUCKSHOT

Correction

 
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #510 on: November 23, 2010, 07:10:04 PM »

Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



I'm sorry. I'm not done with my rant yet. We need to look in the window that Natalee left us, and examine our individual choices in light of what we see. We need to foster everything in us that reaches out to Beth and has kept this thread alive. If our empathy has grown and our charity toward others has sharpened, then we have the right response to the tremendous loss that was Natalee. The harder it is to swallow the garbage from Aruba, the healthier we are.

If our heart breaks because we dared to hope, know it was not selfish hope, but love for a Mother struggling to bring her daughter home. Our righteous indignation is born in love for a woman who sat across from her daughter's murderer and begged, for her own sake and for his. Our prayers have root in the image of a Mother sobbing after she risked exposure of her heart to her daughter's murderer, hoping to have the chance to carry out the final act she can do for Natalee. Beth needs to respectfully lay Natalee to rest with the dignity Natalee had in life, and we know all of it because we relate to her motivations and to her decency.

Aruba wins nothing by the evil games. They just make the window larger for more to peer in.

The contrast is more stark between black and white because of Natalee. Light a candle and watch the darkness flee, and the darkness cannot overtake the light. Hold your candles high!

 
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #511 on: November 23, 2010, 07:10:16 PM »

ARUBA: The trap contained nothing more than EXOTIC DEEP WATER HERMIT CRABS, of the XTRA LARGE MUTANT BREED.

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snoopy
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« Reply #512 on: November 23, 2010, 07:14:34 PM »

Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



I'm sorry. I'm not done with my rant yet. We need to look in the window that Natalee left us, and examine our individual choices in light of what we see. We need to foster everything in us that reaches out to Beth and has kept this thread alive. If our empathy has grown and our charity toward others has sharpened, then we have the right response to the tremendous loss that was Natalee. The harder it is to swallow the garbage from Aruba, the healthier we are.

If our heart breaks because we dared to hope, know it was not selfish hope, but love for a Mother struggling to bring her daughter home. Our righteous indignation is born in love for a woman who sat across from her daughter's murderer and begged, for her own sake and for his. Our prayers have root in the image of a Mother sobbing after she risked exposure of her heart to her daughter's murderer, hoping to have the chance to carry out the final act she can do for Natalee. Beth needs to respectfully lay Natalee to rest with the dignity Natalee had in life, and we know all of it because we relate to her motivations and to her decency.

Aruba wins nothing by the evil games. They just make the window larger for more to peer in.

The contrast is more stark between black and white because of Natalee. Light a candle and watch the darkness flee, and the darkness cannot overtake the light. Hold your candles high!

 

Oh CBB you say it so well.  My heart is just broken.  All day I have been thinking about Matt.  This just all makes me so angry and more determined than ever to tell everyone I know to avoid Aruba at all cost.

Lifting all of Natalee's family in my prayers. 
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Blue Moon
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« Reply #513 on: November 23, 2010, 07:25:49 PM »

Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



I'm sorry. I'm not done with my rant yet. We need to look in the window that Natalee left us, and examine our individual choices in light of what we see. We need to foster everything in us that reaches out to Beth and has kept this thread alive. If our empathy has grown and our charity toward others has sharpened, then we have the right response to the tremendous loss that was Natalee. The harder it is to swallow the garbage from Aruba, the healthier we are.

If our heart breaks because we dared to hope, know it was not selfish hope, but love for a Mother struggling to bring her daughter home. Our righteous indignation is born in love for a woman who sat across from her daughter's murderer and begged, for her own sake and for his. Our prayers have root in the image of a Mother sobbing after she risked exposure of her heart to her daughter's murderer, hoping to have the chance to carry out the final act she can do for Natalee. Beth needs to respectfully lay Natalee to rest with the dignity Natalee had in life, and we know all of it because we relate to her motivations and to her decency.

Aruba wins nothing by the evil games. They just make the window larger for more to peer in.

The contrast is more stark between black and white because of Natalee. Light a candle and watch the darkness flee, and the darkness cannot overtake the light. Hold your candles high!

 

YOU GO GIRL       
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« Reply #514 on: November 23, 2010, 07:28:01 PM »

I like this theory (of course, plus or minus some details):
*PVDS/JVDS at casino with NH and friends.
*J2K arrive about an hour before close of CnC
*Spiked/unspiked alcoholic drinks served to NH, compliments of JVDS. Taxi scheme departure with J2K + NH.
*J2K + NH drive around a bit..Drug(s) take effect. Arrive at: (A) Secluded, non-tourist spot (rock scene?) OR (B) SlootHome
*Sexual assault. NH expires at: (A) SlootHome, OR (B) K2 vehicle.
*Panic. PVDS contacted. Takes control of situation. (Alibis. Online chats, porn site downloads, etc..)
*Heavy, Awkward body is temporarily hidden.
*Late night communication(s)/sightings/withdrawls. 630AM phone call.
*Long, exhausting night. No school. No work.
*Poolside meeting. No Body / No Case.
*Paulus contacts Jacobs / Straaten.
*5-8PM Racquet Club / Gym Bag / Tennis Instructions. Bag of Evidence and meeting with Gottenbos (The Boat). Boat Disposal?
*1000PM Heads up given on BHT arrival.
*Group arrives, wild gooses around island. Game - already fixed.
*Disinformation campaign to confuse and mislead. Unexplainable ALE behavior.
*Blocked assistance by other outside accredited international agencies. Allows for less transparency.

The crime was fairly simple...
The cover-up has been never-ending...

Where is her body? The million dollar question...For me, ideas include: Incinerator, Sloot property, Ocean, Grave.


Sloot property!!!
Remember how protective they were of the property when Greta went there? They wouldn't allow anyone on the property! I betcha that's where she is, all safe and sound and Joran knows no one will ever be allowed to search there.
That's why he laughed. He knew it was a media frenzy dead end.
There must be some kind of geological sonar machine that can x-ray that property.

As for Tim Miller. I was on to him years ago and got blasted for speaking against him in the monkey cage. Leonard Padilla is kind to Tim even though he was on to Tim years ago too when he messed up the Anthony search.
Thank you all who jumped my sh!t years ago and pushed me into hiding. heh. Happy Thanksgiving too.

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« Reply #515 on: November 23, 2010, 07:32:33 PM »

Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



I'm sorry. I'm not done with my rant yet. We need to look in the window that Natalee left us, and examine our individual choices in light of what we see. We need to foster everything in us that reaches out to Beth and has kept this thread alive. If our empathy has grown and our charity toward others has sharpened, then we have the right response to the tremendous loss that was Natalee. The harder it is to swallow the garbage from Aruba, the healthier we are.

If our heart breaks because we dared to hope, know it was not selfish hope, but love for a Mother struggling to bring her daughter home. Our righteous indignation is born in love for a woman who sat across from her daughter's murderer and begged, for her own sake and for his. Our prayers have root in the image of a Mother sobbing after she risked exposure of her heart to her daughter's murderer, hoping to have the chance to carry out the final act she can do for Natalee. Beth needs to respectfully lay Natalee to rest with the dignity Natalee had in life, and we know all of it because we relate to her motivations and to her decency.

Aruba wins nothing by the evil games. They just make the window larger for more to peer in.

The contrast is more stark between black and white because of Natalee. Light a candle and watch the darkness flee, and the darkness cannot overtake the light. Hold your candles high!

 

Rant on CBB!  Rant on!

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
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« Reply #516 on: November 23, 2010, 07:33:17 PM »

Natalee's death has accomplished something. It has been a window to the world of corruption, evil, cruelty and unhumanity.......shout out to Aruba and Holland.  It has shown the world why "lukewarm" isn't good enough for morality and principles......... shout out to Tim Miller. It has shown the world why parents are charged with more than feeling love toward their children, and why love must be partnered with development of character..........shout out to Anita and down to Paulus.

I don't think it's over.



   Good post.
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« Reply #517 on: November 23, 2010, 07:34:46 PM »

I am so upset. Sad   I really felt like it was Natalee in my heart. Sad

KKthy, thanks for doing the right thing in regards to the jawbone.  I know this hurts you also.  It is just so awful what that island "ARUBA" hell-hole did to the parents of murdered young girl Natalee.

I am going to ask a question so please don't think I am passing judgment on you or your friends cause I really am not.  Here goes...............After witnessing what you did today and the last week and seeing how your heart is broken along with the family of Natalee, Would you hesitate in going to Aruba the next time or would you have 2nd thoughts after what you witnessed for yourself?

I am so upset at how they teased Beth.  But hay, She still has about 40 years to go (and we are right there with her).
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design its much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
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« Reply #518 on: November 23, 2010, 07:36:29 PM »

ARUBA: The trap contained nothing more than EXOTIC DEEP WATER HERMIT CRABS, of the XTRA LARGE MUTANT BREED.




private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
Reply #897 on: December 30, 2007, 06:30:32 PM
 

They will have dateline onboard and I understand that they were involved in the Titantic so I assume they have the expertise to preserve any remains or artifacts and have a protocol. They can always find and locate it, call for assistance and then retrieve it. But that is my fear that they imediately turn it over to Aruba where her remains can become that of a large crab.[/color

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2481.880
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
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« Reply #519 on: November 23, 2010, 07:38:11 PM »

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Behind Every Lie is a Clue to the Truth
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