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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 - 11/26/10  (Read 140311 times)
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antunym
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« Reply #720 on: November 24, 2010, 01:35:01 PM »

There is something I was thinking about.  If Paulus was the person that helped to dispose of Natalee's body then he would have known her exact location right? Well what I'm not comprehending is why didn't he make plans and recover her body before the persistence crew arrived in Aruba?  I mean with the equipment that was coming I'm sure everyone knew that surely the trap would be found. 

Dolph Richardson must not have been informed by the one's that disposed of her and where... if in fact this was Natalee because he had to actually wait for the persistence crew to find her.  The recovery of remains would have to be done after the find because until the "detective and his brother" pointed out the location of the area where the trap was, it seems that Dolph Richardson didn't know where the trap was at. 
So you got the ones that actually knew where the trap was because thats where they put it and then you got some that don't know where it was at.

To me it seems that the two weren't communicating to try to cover this up.

We did have a sighting of Paulus and I think Anita standing on the beach watching the activities in the ocean. But if Paulus had that connection to get the trap recovered and hidden it would make more sense that he would have contacted Dolph or whoever before persistence arrived and dove on the trap and continued the cover-up.

I know this is a lot to comprehend but to me it seems that there is someone entirely out of the loop of all of this that is pulling the strings. One would think that if Dolph or whoever was involved to recover her remains would have just done so before the persistence arrived and not in their presence if they knew beforehand where this trap was at.

I know that we are unsure if these remains were Natalee's but they were someone's and the recovery timing was a little weird.

Sorry if this is confusing everyone but I think you can see my point.
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jen3560
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« Reply #721 on: November 24, 2010, 01:51:10 PM »

Antunym,  I do see your point.  One thing I keep reminding myself of, however - those morons continue to think they are smarter than anyone else.  I believe that in their arrogance, they never thought Persistence would find her, so no one worried about it.

And yes, you are correct - Paulus and Anita were seen on the beach directly in from where the cage was.  They were seen on either jan 5 or 6, IIRC.  After Persistence had found it, and just mere days before ALE dove on it.
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Anna
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« Reply #722 on: November 24, 2010, 01:56:38 PM »

My condolances to Natalee's family for the devastated hopes once again.

Gave myself a day to absorb all this.  And I can't believe I fell for it again.

Taco Stein is the biggest horses's ass I have seen lately.  Because remains would not advance the investigation, he totally discounted them as though the feelings of the family count for nothing.  But we have seen time and again their total disregard and lack of respect for human remains in their publications.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
antunym
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« Reply #723 on: November 24, 2010, 01:59:14 PM »

Antunym,  I do see your point.  One thing I keep reminding myself of, however - those morons continue to think they are smarter than anyone else.  I believe that in their arrogance, they never thought Persistence would find her, so no one worried about it.

And yes, you are correct - Paulus and Anita were seen on the beach directly in from where the cage was.  They were seen on either jan 5 or 6, IIRC.  After Persistence had found it, and just mere days before ALE dove on it.

Maybe it could be that simple and I'm just thinking to hard and putting more brains in their heads than are actually there lol
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Anna
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« Reply #724 on: November 24, 2010, 02:16:27 PM »

Nope, not even close. Look at the so called skull carefully. It is actually two or more pieces of "something" piled up together to give an appearance of a skull. I see white sand with green light reflections that probably made one to think of Natalee's green dress. Also, the wire mesh is about two by two inches square which makes the "skull" too small to be Natalee (or a male). One has to wonder why Kyle's photos were never sold to Enquirer, ABC, etc, etc. That said and done, it is still only my opinion that Kyle was wrong.

c.

Well it is my opinion that it was a skull in that cage.  So much so that the Aruban divers when down and collected its contents.  Why bother to collect it if it was nothing.




And don't forget Tim Miller said they (ALE) came back after 6 weeks and said it was a male.


Therefore it was human remains. Nimrod, if you look at the evidence bags, I'm sure you'll see what appears, to me anyway, blue denim that could match Natalees skirt worn that night.



Whoa!  Wait a minute.

Who said we all agree on the contents of the trap or anything else for that matter?

I STILL see a service hat even in the recovered remains.  And denim is most commonly in jeans and so jeans plus pelvic bone still could be anybody.

That said, however, I learned long ago that I do not have to point out that no one knows for certain where Natalee's remians are or have been every time the subject comes up.

I don't know if that was her in that trap or not and neither does anybody else.  But every time I have voiced this, I have been bombarded with all manner of repeated information obviously designed to change my mind and brow beaten for days.

That doesn't mean we all concur with the conjectures and determinations of each other.  It's just sometimes not worth being told what to think repeatedly for days.  Same with Lorenzo van Rijn not being related or even a friend Joran.

I know what I think and I know what I know but it's not necessary to endlessly debate.  After this amount of time, we are not going to change each others' minds.

But I see that service cap clear as day and this cage could have been pushed off a commercial fishing boat in the area, etc.  Also as pointed out above, I believe if that had been Natalee's remains they would have been relocated before the divind boat could arrive.

But these are just my opinions like eerybody else has them.  I do not try to force them on others and would appreciate the same respect being shown for my thoughts on this as well.  I do not need to be told to "think" or that my logic is flawed, etc.  That's already been done ad nauseum.

Because I don't challenge every conjecture does not mean I totally concur.  It means I have my own thoughts that I may or may not care to share or debate.  But I do think I should be allowed to express mine without creating a barrage of contradiction designed to demean and belittle them.




 


 

Now to try to find something in all this to be thankful for.  I suppose Aruba showing their rear end to the whole world again is pretty good.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
jjayinthemorning
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« Reply #725 on: November 24, 2010, 02:22:12 PM »

Good afternoon Monkeys.  Last night as I was reading through the board, things started getting really "snippy" and I had to back off as it was so sad to see people going after each other, after the results of the jawbone was announced.  I know it was out of anger at Aruba, and I'm very happy to see things have calmed down.  I think Natalee would have been so thankful and proud to see how many people love her so much.

BIG HUGS to all the Monkeys today.  Each of you are truely Angels walking on this earth, and should be so very proud of yourselves for your determination in this case.  I know I feel honored to be able to communicate with you through this forum !!!

 an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey an angelic monkey
Hear hear. Happy Thanksgiving to all monkeys everywhere.
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Anna
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« Reply #726 on: November 24, 2010, 02:22:53 PM »

Let us remember how difficult the holidays are for those who have lost loved ones.  Most people have lost someone but the loss of a child had to be the worst.  Holidays make us think of holidays from the past and miss them even more.

So no matter how disappointed we are, Natalee's family has to be suffering far more and we can be thankful if that is a loss we have never had to endure.  May God lighten that sorrow for them and grant them peace for this holiday season.
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
jjayinthemorning
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« Reply #727 on: November 24, 2010, 02:25:32 PM »

JJ

#1  Red is not a girl
#2  How much searching did you do in the landfill in Aruba?

Thanks Klaas, been called many things in my life, never an elbow girl, whatever that is. 

Yea, funny how some talk a big game and have never lifted a finger to try and help another. And yes, that landfill search was something that I would never suggest to anyone. especially when we happened on medical waste that should never have been there.
My apologies.
I've never been to Aruba but yes, I do public service alot, mostly in Homeland Security, been in some grungy places.
Hope you have a nice holiday.
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jjayinthemorning
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« Reply #728 on: November 24, 2010, 02:45:23 PM »

Because I don't challenge every conjecture does not mean I totally concur.  It means I have my own thoughts that I may or may not care to share or debate.  But I do think I should be allowed to express mine without creating a barrage of contradiction designed to demean and belittle them.
It's the nature of internet forums.
But yes, I seem to think that it could be cow bones in the trap for all we know. Becauce chum is used to attract crabs and cheap meat left overs usually works but they need something to be anchored to.

There are thousands of crab traps. Are there any identifying marks that says this is the one that was stolen? Did the owner claim it? Forgive me if this has been already answered.
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MuffyBee
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« Reply #729 on: November 24, 2010, 03:01:00 PM »

Because I don't challenge every conjecture does not mean I totally concur.  It means I have my own thoughts that I may or may not care to share or debate.  But I do think I should be allowed to express mine without creating a barrage of contradiction designed to demean and belittle them.
It's the nature of internet forums.
But yes, I seem to think that it could be cow bones in the trap for all we know. Becauce chum is used to attract crabs and cheap meat left overs usually works but they need something to be anchored to.

There are thousands of crab traps. Are there any identifying marks that says this is the one that was stolen? Did the owner claim it? Forgive me if this has been already answered.

You might want to try looking at some of helpful threads in the Natalee Holloway Forum that have been created, such as:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4641.msg705702#msg705702
THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

or
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.msg547189#msg547189
The Ocean Search for Natalee Holloway Monday, November 26, 2007

or the try using the forum search feature.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #730 on: November 24, 2010, 03:03:13 PM »

Happy Thanksgiving to all American Monkeys!!

Don't forget the brussel sprouts.  My grandmother, mother and aunts insisted that my cousins, brothers and I had to eat at least one of those little cabbages with our Turkey dinners.  These beloved women never shared what would would happen if we failed to follow through but ... the understanding was it was not a good thing.  This almost 64 year old woman still has at least one brussel sprout with her Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

 

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
MuffyBee
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« Reply #731 on: November 24, 2010, 03:09:50 PM »

Happy Thanksgiving to all American Monkeys!!

Don't forget the brussel sprouts.  My grandmother, mother and aunts insisted that my cousins, brothers and I had to eat at least one of those little cabbages with our Turkey dinners.  These beloved women never shared what would would happen if we failed to follow through but ... the understanding was it was not a good thing.  This almost 64 year old woman still has at least one brussel sprout with her Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

 

Janet


Happy Thanksgiving, Janet.  No, I don't eat brussel sprouts    I enjoy most veggies and eat healthy but since I turned the corner and became a woman of a certain age, there are times I've even decided to eat dessert first.   Monkey Devil!
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #732 on: November 24, 2010, 03:18:48 PM »

Happy Thanksgiving to all American Monkeys!!

Don't forget the brussel sprouts.  My grandmother, mother and aunts insisted that my cousins, brothers and I had to eat at least one of those little cabbages with our Turkey dinners.  These beloved women never shared what would would happen if we failed to follow through but ... the understanding was it was not a good thing.  This almost 64 year old woman still has at least one brussel sprout with her Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

 

Janet


Happy Thanksgiving, Janet.  No, I don't eat brussel sprouts    I enjoy most veggies and eat healthy but since I turned the corner and became a woman of a certain age, there are times I've even decided to eat dessert first.   Monkey Devil!

 

You are the rebellious one.  Not one brussel sprout!!  Eating dessert first!! My entire world as I know it would be turn upside down.

MuffyBee ... Canadian Thanksgiving was last month.  I was turkied-out (is that a word?) with Thanksgiving dinners on both sides of the family.  However ... one month later I am anticipating a Christmas turkey dinner.

Janet
 

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
Nut44x4
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...and Injustice for most


« Reply #733 on: November 24, 2010, 03:22:35 PM »

baby cabbages are delectable!
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #734 on: November 24, 2010, 03:24:20 PM »

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

Part of me agrees with this............another part of me believes that Tim knows what he saw, knows what his beliefs are still to this day - but with others (Silvetti) having so firmly shut the door on that possibility, I think Tim sometimes doubts himself.

All of which requires convictions and I agree; therein, might lie the problem.  JMO.
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wreck
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« Reply #735 on: November 24, 2010, 03:51:58 PM »

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #736 on: November 24, 2010, 03:57:09 PM »

OMG, Wreck. You've been in my head. I've been in your epiphany for a while now.
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jjayinthemorning
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« Reply #737 on: November 24, 2010, 03:59:46 PM »

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

Okay, this just hit me like a ton of bricks........... I know it sounds crazy (and probably is).

Ever since Beth went to Peru, Tim has been going nuts (along with Steph Watts). He was saying how Beth "messed up" the "plan". Tim and Steph were in Aruba at the time "searching" for Natalee.

Now, Tim is saying he can narrow his search and have Natalee "home by Christmas".
Maybe, just maybe Tim knows the "jig is up" with the Persistence and Natalee had actually been recovered in that crab trap. Could they possibly be trying ANOTHER way to return Natalee back to Brth and dave without getting Silvetti et al in trouble? Could they "re-plant" Natalee in one of the "other 141 targets"???

Discuss, while I'm ducking for cover............
Interesting!
Isn't that illegal?
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Tater
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« Reply #738 on: November 24, 2010, 04:01:35 PM »

Well thank you all for the responses. We do bat things around here for sure.Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I value all of them.I have always had the trap in my brain simply because of the covert operation that surrounded it.That said,I still think of those videos that showed the white bag in the culvert by the swamp,lake,whatever that was.That was a very mysterious operation done by someone also.When you look at them up close(Blondes post),it does look like a small blonde female inside.What was the persons motive for taking the film I wonder.A message?A threat?Blackmail? Was there a drug lord suddenly released from jail in the days following?You know those drug cartels!!! Then there is always the dump and all that went on there.Why do I always feel like we sit in square one 5 1/2 years later? I really dont see why joran cant be given truth serum.Who would believe him if he told? Just like him,deny,deny,deny.Keep him locked up tight for a few days afterwards until all traces are gone and let him howl.We wont tell Peru!!!!!!  One more thing,why havent those 141 so called targets been dived upon all this time later? I just dont get it!!!
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #739 on: November 24, 2010, 04:05:49 PM »

When I heard the horrible comments from Tim about Beth's visit from Peru, I started asking myself if maybe Tim was supposed to "find Natalee" with a nod from Aruba. Aruba's motive? Joran had been arrested for killing Stephany and it doesn't help Aruba's image that they basically allowed that and it gave credibility to Beth's claims of corruption and cover up.

I thought that perhaps Tim's rant was because Beth was throwing a monkey wrench in the plan. She was, once again, putting the story back on the front page and garnering more sympathy.
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