Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #853 11/23/10 - 11/26/10

[jen3560]

For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

I'd like to add my two cents here if I may.  Dolph Richardson has been pulling the strings behind the scenes since the day vd Straten left.  He was also aboard Persistence.  IMO, he is the most likely person to have orchestrated the subversion of Justice when it came to the evidence.  Remember, it was he who said he personally sent items from the cage to the FBI.

Something to ponder here...................Kyle never would come clean and give us the names of the Aruban divers from Jan 7, 2008, or Dec 30th.  But Kyle was not the only person on that boat.......there are others who witnessed this as well, and who also had access to the Persistence log books........maybe there is someone who would jump at the chance to do the right thing.

Or who could be persuaded that a public slaughter of their character is not worth keeping quiet......

[texasmom]

Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!

texasmom -

You inspire me every day.

Just thought you should know.

 

Thank you Lifesong!   

The feeling is mutual!   

[crazybabyborg]

For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

I'd like to add my two cents here if I may.  Dolph Richardson has been pulling the strings behind the scenes since the day vd Straten left.  He was also aboard Persistence.  IMO, he is the most likely person to have orchestrated the subversion of Justice when it came to the evidence.  Remember, it was he who said he personally sent items from the cage to the FBI.

Something to ponder here...................Kyle never would come clean and give us the names of the Aruban divers from Jan 7, 2008, or Dec 30th.  But Kyle was not the only person on that boat.......there are others who witnessed this as well, and who also had access to the Persistence log books........maybe there is someone who would jump at the chance to do the right thing.

Or who could be persuaded that a public slaughter of their character is not worth keeping quiet......

Yes, Jen, you're right on target and your post is much better thought out than mine. Thank You!

[texasmom]

For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

Thanks CBB!  Worth a lot IMO!   

[jen3560]

For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

Thanks CBB!  Worth a lot IMO!   

I agree - thank you CBB for undertaking this action.  4 medical professionals all giving their opinion on what that picture shows is definitely worth A LOT.

[jen3560]

For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

I'd like to add my two cents here if I may.  Dolph Richardson has been pulling the strings behind the scenes since the day vd Straten left.  He was also aboard Persistence.  IMO, he is the most likely person to have orchestrated the subversion of Justice when it came to the evidence.  Remember, it was he who said he personally sent items from the cage to the FBI.

Something to ponder here...................Kyle never would come clean and give us the names of the Aruban divers from Jan 7, 2008, or Dec 30th.  But Kyle was not the only person on that boat.......there are others who witnessed this as well, and who also had access to the Persistence log books........maybe there is someone who would jump at the chance to do the right thing.

Or who could be persuaded that a public slaughter of their character is not worth keeping quiet......

Yes, Jen, you're right on target and your post is much better thought out than mine. Thank You!

LOL, thanks CBB.  I dunno about being better thought out or not, I'm just pissed!

[texasmom]

Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!

Thankyou!It helps knowing that I'm not alone in this.I too asked forgiveness and know deep in my heart that this will be an ongoing thing until justice is finally served.The raw evil thats involved in all this compels me to pray harder and harder against it.I sure hope you dont come down with any sickness Mom and hope you are able to enjoy Thanksgiving even though Natalee and all those that love her will be heavily on our minds...May we all lift them up in our prayers..

ALWAYS....I'm a firm believer that prayer changes things.  In His time, it will happen.

[Tater]

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

[texasmom]

For whatever it's worth, I just got off the phone with the clinic. I walked a Nurse Practitioner through pulling up page 31 of this thread where pics of the crab trap are and I asked him what he thinks it looks like. He said "hip, no doubt." In a matter of minutes, 2 Physicians and an RN took a look, with no prep remarks and each independently said either "pelvis" or "hip".

The NP did autopsies for years at the hospital. That's a pelvis with blue fabric around it. In my mind there is no doubt.

I agree 100 percent! So in your opinion,whom is to blame for the loss of her remains?

Hans Moss and his band of merry LE, and John Silvetti. I'd go further, but will just say that if Beth had been on the boat, I believe something from the trap would have come home with her. JMHO.

I'd like to add my two cents here if I may.  Dolph Richardson has been pulling the strings behind the scenes since the day vd Straten left.  He was also aboard Persistence.  IMO, he is the most likely person to have orchestrated the subversion of Justice when it came to the evidence.  Remember, it was he who said he personally sent items from the cage to the FBI.

Something to ponder here...................Kyle never would come clean and give us the names of the Aruban divers from Jan 7, 2008, or Dec 30th.  But Kyle was not the only person on that boat.......there are others who witnessed this as well, and who also had access to the Persistence log books........maybe there is someone who would jump at the chance to do the right thing.

Or who could be persuaded that a public slaughter of their character is not worth keeping quiet......

Yes, Jen, you're right on target and your post is much better thought out than mine. Thank You!

LOL, thanks CBB.  I dunno about being better thought out or not, I'm just pissed!

I like it when you get that way.  

And I agree, you're right on target!  

[texasmom]

Shopping for a turkey and fixings!  BBL! 

[Tater]

Good morning Monkeys,
    Geesh!! I'm about running on empty.Stayed up late last night,went to bed and laid awake forever and then bounced right outta bed at 3am..Just emotionally keyed up after all the stress yesterday..You would think by now after 5 1/2 years I'd be better at controlling my thoughts.All I kept thinking of was 101 ways to kill Joran and then 200 ways to destroy the island of aruba...I came to the conclusion that stoning would be a good way to do away with him...Sorry for venting.Not very Christian like either.:(Hope you all had a better night.

I'm right there with you Tater.  A million things that I haven't done too.  Guess I'd better go shopping so we can have Thanksgiving tomorrow.  By last night I even felt like I was coming down with something...I'm sure it was just stress.

Before I went to sleep, I had to add to my prayers a request for forgiveness for many of my thoughts yesterday.  

He knows we're only human!

Thankyou!It helps knowing that I'm not alone in this.I too asked forgiveness and know deep in my heart that this will be an ongoing thing until justice is finally served.The raw evil thats involved in all this compels me to pray harder and harder against it.I sure hope you dont come down with any sickness Mom and hope you are able to enjoy Thanksgiving even though Natalee and all those that love her will be heavily on our minds...May we all lift them up in our prayers..

ALWAYS....I'm a firm believer that prayer changes things.  In His time, it will happen.

*AMEN*!!!!

[FloridaKatz]

Good afternoon Monkeys.  Last night as I was reading through the board, things started getting really "snippy" and I had to back off as it was so sad to see people going after each other, after the results of the jawbone was announced.  I know it was out of anger at Aruba, and I'm very happy to see things have calmed down.  I think Natalee would have been so thankful and proud to see how many people love her so much.

BIG HUGS to all the Monkeys today.  Each of you are truely Angels walking on this earth, and should be so very proud of yourselves for your determination in this case.  I know I feel honored to be able to communicate with you through this forum !!!

 

[Tater]

Good afternoon Monkeys.  Last night as I was reading through the board, things started getting really "snippy" and I had to back off as it was so sad to see people going after each other, after the results of the jawbone was announced.  I know it was out of anger at Aruba, and I'm very happy to see things have calmed down.  I think Natalee would have been so thankful and proud to see how many people love her so much.

BIG HUGS to all the Monkeys today.  Each of you are truely Angels walking on this earth, and should be so very proud of yourselves for your determination in this case.  I know I feel honored to be able to communicate with you through this forum !!!

 

So very sweet of you to say.Thankyou for the kind words Katz.It was a hard day on us monkeys yesterday and emotionally drained many of us.We do get snippy as you say from time to time but this is one thing I hold dear to my heart.If I have to have a monkey on my back,may it always be one of these here...For whatever reason,we all come together where Natalee is concerned and all want justice to be served on the perp or perps that ended that childs life.The love we feel for her and her family is genuine and the glue that holds us together...

[Lifesong]

Klaas & The Amazing Mods,

I posted an updated Part 8 to the Timeline thread.  Can you remove the old Part 8?

Thank you!

I'll let 2NJ do it  

Done!     

[Magnolia]

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

[carpe noctem]

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

[Magnolia]

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

He wants Natalee's case to go away... then he wants her home by Christmas? He loves her... he loves her, not. Ugh. Rehab! Tim, please... seriously, stop.

I liked what Red said yesterday... in so many words he said: Search the remaining targets or shut up.

I agree with you and Red.  If he was ready to start searching those targets in two
weeks and have her home by Christmas, he needs to get on with it.  Christmas
is just around the corner.

[jen3560]

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Not necessarily.  Keep in mind that Silvetti got him and Dateline OFF of Persistence after the Dec 30th dive.  Time was not there when that Jan 7 footage was taken, and ALE swiped everything from that cage.

[jen3560]

Is it safe to say then that Tim Miller really doesn't believe that was Natalee in the trap?This is the part that confuses the hound out of me.I do not want to stir up any trouble at all so please dont go there.I have read where he was saying 141 targets yet to look at but if that was Natalee's jawbone,the search would narrow considerably.He himself must have major doubt it was her in there  because he keeps this up about other targets.It just seems like he would have been closer to all the footage then anyone else so...I dont understand much of this at all...

Tim Miller has also said on several occasions that he thought it was Natalee in the
trap...or that "it sure looked like her to me."  He has also said that it was definately
human remains.  It seems that the statement about the 141 other targets is what
he is suppose to say to get those donations pouring in, but sometimes he slips up
and lets his true beliefs come out. JMO
I think maybe Tim justifies his different statements thinking that if he gets more
donations, it might help other missing people....  But that is just my opinion.

Part of me agrees with this............another part of me believes that Tim knows what he saw, knows what his beliefs are still to this day - but with others (Silvetti) having so firmly shut the door on that possibility, I think Tim sometimes doubts himself.

[jen3560]

I like it when you get that way.  

And I agree, you're right on target!  

   I'm ashamed that I let my emotions get the better of me at times, but gheesh!  how many Thanksgivings in a row is this now that Aruba has jerked Natalee's family around? 

To quote one of the 3 Criminal Musketeers:  Enough of the BS Already!!!!!!