Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #37 12/5/10 - 12/18/10

[Nut44x4]

[Puzzler]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

we're thinking along the same lines. Kyron is somewhere - that "somewhere" hasn't been identified to date. I refuse to believe that people simply dematerialize or vaporize.

In a sense, the investigation - to date, based on what WE know - has not produced anything tangible. All that has been produced is suspicions. 

it's hard for me to believe that after 6 months of investigating there is nothing. And further, is there nothing because they have focused on the wrong something for too long to the exclusion of the truth.

How could a slurring of speech, stumbling, passed-out drunk fool LE and all the other agencies that worked on this case to the degree that LE has "no evidence" ?  Just asking'...

[Puzzler]

Made it!

How could a slurring of speech, stumbling, passed-out drunk fool LE and all the other agencies that worked on this case to the degree that LE has "no evidence" ?  Just asking'...

[MuffyBee]

I moved your last post from the previous thread  on over to this new thread, Puzzler.  

[Puzzler]

I moved your last post from the previous thread  on over to this new thread, Puzzler.  

MB - TY

[MuffyBee]

I moved your last post from the previous thread  on over to this new thread, Puzzler.  

MB - TY

YW.  Each time I do a thread change for a missing person, it just really hits home.     I hope Kyron can be found soon.  It's been so long... 

[Puzzler]

I moved your last post from the previous thread  on over to this new thread, Puzzler.  

MB - TY

YW.  Each time I do a thread change for a missing person, it just really hits home.     I hope Kyron can be found soon.  It's been so long... 

Yes, I can see that it would be heart-wrenching...knowing that you're opening another thread because the child has not been found.  Sad.

[Kat_Gram]

If she did do something to Kyron, it wasn't a thing where she just snapped and lost it on him.
That would have been discovered already. So, she sat around feeling sorry for herself and began to resent her situation after she did her sums and added up how much stayiing at home cost her and she had no money and her Unemployment was running out and Kaine had the money. 
Why wouldn't she have a better story than she was aimlessly driving around if this was all planned ?
Do I think she could have done it ? For sure.
Do I think she did do it, No, not without seeing those emails and without knowing how the lie detectors went down.
I don't like the way LE gave Kaine info on Terri and I don't like that anything we know comes from Kaine's divorce papers.

[Puzzler]

Well, unless (as the article said) something "unexpectedly" comes up, then LE has put it out there that they don't expect to have any resolutions before February and it is ony a "hope" for February and that this is a marathon (that will take more months) and not a sprint. 

In other words, divorce court date on January 6-----can of worms!!

[Rob]

Thanks Muffy - nice change over. 

I think the police did go back to square one a few times. They went back the the school again and again. And I think with the case of Anne Le the police wanted to make sure that a body was not well hidden there - and with the summer recess they may have surmised that a corpse may go unnoticed with very few people around.

I was thinking about the investigation. As we know it has produced nada. Six, whoops, scratch that - five months of Terri being a defacto suspect in the eyes of the police and public and she has not been charged. She didn't really become a defacto suspect until the MFH plot was alleged.

In my eyes, the police can not be competent and the investigation full of integrity if the investigation has not produced a shred of evidence in one direction or another. How can the police be competent when their number one target has eluded any type of criminal charges? And conversely, are they incompetent if they are unable to find even one iota of evidence that nails their dream suspect to the wall? I don't see how they can be competent and incompetent at the same time. It can't be both. They are one or the other. If they have not found any evidence of Terri's involvement nor anyone else's - how can anyone say that the police are on the right track?

Where did Kaine and Desiree get the idea that Kyron was being held somewhere? They didn't just come up with that themselves. They had to hear it somewhere. And if that's the case - what evidence supported that theory? Again, how can the investigation be full of integrity and competent if that's the case?

I never believed that Kyron's glasses were discovered - don't know why I didn't believe it - but if it truly would have happened - it would have been proof that someone else might have been involved. And it might have been proof that he was alive and someone was holding him. The police would have made that known. They didn't.. so again - how competent is this investigation?

There is evidence in this case somewhere and just because the police have not located it does not mean that none exist. The very fact that they have found nothing indicates that they are looking in the wrong place and may in fact have the wrong person(s) targeted.

[no rose colored glasses]

If she did do something to Kyron, it wasn't a thing where she just snapped and lost it on him.
That would have been discovered already. So, she sat around feeling sorry for herself and began to resent her situation after she did her sums and added up how much stayiing at home cost her and she had no money and her Unemployment was running out and Kaine had the money. 
Why wouldn't she have a better story than she was aimlessly driving around if this was all planned ?
Do I think she could have done it ? For sure.
Do I think she did do it, No, not without seeing those emails and without knowing how the lie detectors went down.
I don't like the way LE gave Kaine info on Terri and I don't like that anything we know comes from Kaine's divorce papers.

That's another thing that bothers me, wouldn't a person have a better alibi then driving aimlessly around?

[Kokos Cat]

Monkeys,
Is Staton supposed to speak today?  I just read that at Websleuths, but am not sure if they were referring to yesterday? ??  Wasn't that just an interview yesterday by Maxine B. in The Oregonian? 

Press conference today?

Thanks.

[Gypsy DD]

MuffyBee..I liked your post on page 49 on the last thread.

No physical evidence does not mean the same thing as no evidence.

The sheriff sounded to me like he feels optimisist about how the case has proceeded since September.

I still have faith in this investigation...they are on the right track.  I think it is very possible this was a soft kill..drugs or strangulation or something of that nature. 

JMHO

[Rob]

This is interesting and others have point it out too.

They must look at all potential theories: They suspect Kyron's stepmother's involvement, but did she pass the boy off to someone? Could the boy have been taken along the I-5 corridor and out of the country? They also must identify and interview child predators and sex offenders living in the area.

In other words - they have decided that with nothing to link Terri directly to the disappearance of Kyron - it's time to look in the direction where they may most likely find a perp. 1.4 million spent to date and now it is time to check this avenue again.

I also found this interesting -

Sometimes, investigators get fed up with psychic tips, or pained by details of the case released to the public. Last month, the sheriff took Kyron's parents, Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, to lunch in Hillsboro. "We want to keep them appraised of the investigation, but asked they please coordinate with our detectives before putting out a release," Staton said.

psychics and taking them to lunch? ohhhh ... ok. 

seems this relationship is quite cozy.

www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html

[klaasend]

From the previous thread.

My answer to Rob here is WE SHALL SEE

Rob - if nothing has happened by mid January in this case then I will agree with you.  Until then I'm holding out for what I have been told will be happening.

klaas - nothing will happen - nothing at all. They wish they could indicted Terri Mouton. But it won't happen and even if it did - they told you there is no evidence.

I said three months ago - Terri is NOT getting arrested. They told you today she is not getting arrested. And she is not getting arrested because she didn't do anything to Kyron, and this police department is corrupt. It will all come out in time, as I said.

sorry this case strained our long term relationship. 

[Rob]

I'll re-phrase that. She may be arrested, but with no evidence she will never be convicted. After 6 months it's hard to fathom that new evidence - hard physical evidence - will materialize.

The police can arrest anyone - that alone doesn't mean that they have the evidence to end in a conviction. If they had any hard evidence on Terri she would have been arrested and the wheels of justice would have been placed in motion.

And if she were arrested the police would have to disclose the exact nature of the evidence against her. I could end up looking like a vendetta and they risk losing any credibility. They would need rock solid proof that she is involved and they don't have that. Absent proof - it will look like a vendetta - and any future case that may be built against her would crumble.

The DA can indict a ham sandwich. And as we all know - just because an indictment may come down doesn't mean that it is proof of someone's guilt. It is the prosecutor's side of events and the defense gets to mount a rigorous defense - at trial.

As I said previously - if there was solid proof this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury. But just to add - this is mainly going to be witness testimony and not forensic evidence - which, if they had - Terri would have been arrested.

[Gypsy DD]

This is interesting and others have point it out too.

They must look at all potential theories: They suspect Kyron's stepmother's involvement, but did she pass the boy off to someone? Could the boy have been taken along the I-5 corridor and out of the country? They also must identify and interview child predators and sex offenders living in the area.

In other words - they have decided that with nothing to link Terri directly to the disappearance of Kyron - it's time to look in the direction where they may most likely find a perp. 1.4 million spent to date and now it is time to check this avenue again.

I also found this interesting -

Sometimes, investigators get fed up with psychic tips, or pained by details of the case released to the public. Last month, the sheriff took Kyron's parents, Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, to lunch in Hillsboro. "We want to keep them appraised of the investigation, but asked they please coordinate with our detectives before putting out a release," Staton said.

psychics and taking them to lunch? ohhhh ... ok. 

seems this relationship is quite cozy.

www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html

Rob they did ID child predators and interview them in the past.

I have a feeling that this is an ongoing process since new peds move into and out of the area. Pedo's tend to stick togather and exchange info, stories, pics, etc.  So, if someone new comes into the area..it is conceivable they may have heard some inkling about this cae if other pedos were involved.  I don't think this was some random pedo..but that is just my take on this.

[Puzzler]

I'll re-phrase that. She may be arrested, but with no evidence she will never be convicted. After 6 months it's hard to fathom that new evidence - hard physical evidence - will materialize.

The police can arrest anyone - that alone doesn't mean that they have the evidence to end in a conviction. If they had any hard evidence on Terri she would have been arrested and the wheels of justice would have been placed in motion.

And if she were arrested the police would have to disclose the exact nature of the evidence against her. I could end up looking like a vendetta and they risk losing any credibility. They would need rock solid proof that she is involved and they don't have that. Absent proof - it will look like a vendetta - and any future case that may be built against her would crumble.

The DA can indict a ham sandwich. And as we all know - just because an indictment may come down doesn't mean that it is proof of someone's guilt. It is the prosecutor's side of events and the defense gets to mount a rigorous defense - at trial.

As I said previously - if there was solid proof this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury. But just to add - this is mainly going to be witness testimony and not forensic evidence - which, if they had - Terri would have been arrested.

Not only an "investigative" Grand Jury; but according to the article, they had 42 agencies helping LE.  42 agencies.  Can a passed-out drunk outsmart LE, 42 agencies, and the GJ? 

The article says LE has inteviewed over 1000 witnesses.  Doesn't that sound like a large number of witness - unless the interviews took them into other areas - not "directly" related to Kyron?

[Rob]

Last I check - in Zahra's case there is plenty of evidence and still no one has been arrested. Maybe that changed since I last looked. But even if they find Kyron and he is deceased - it's still a matter of figuring out who did what and there might not be proof that any one particular person is responsible.

It is assumed a crime took place because Kyron could not remove himself from the school grounds and get very far. He did not drive and he is nowhere to be seen. So the likely conclusion is a crime took place even though no evidence has yet been found.

Absent a body - it is assumed a criminal act occurred. Should a body be found - it will then be examined and the nature of any criminal act will be likely confirmed. At that point proof will need to be discovered of someone's involvement. That proof could lead in an array of directions.

Legally - there is the assumption that something nefarious occurred - but what and by who are still up in the air.

[Puzzler]

From the article:

Stanton anguishes over the "6 hours" of lost time.

Kyron reported missing at 3:46 p.m.

3:46 with 6 hours back out comes to 9:45 a.m. (not 8:45 a.m.)

What does that tell us?