Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #37 12/5/10 - 12/18/10

[Tracygirl]

Island monkey said:
That is my feeling also, and I have posted this over and over but no one noticed or commented, but here goes....have you read " Along Came A Spider" by James Patterson? IIRC they even made it into a movie and the teacher drugs or knocks the little girl out, then take her out to his car in a rolling TV cart that has the cabinet underneath, the kind they roll into the classrooms for the kids to watch? Well, I wonder if he was incapacitated but alive and removed in some fashion as this?? Also in the movie the teacher/kidnapper held the child on a boat anchored out in the water and kept her drugged. NOT that I think it is a teacher, more of an example of how someone could remove a child without anyone seeing the child  Sorry, that was a long sentence and prolly didn't make sense to anyone but me....
end of comment.

Snipped for room,
IslandMonkey I think what had me was it would have had to be someone involved in the school because lets face it, if a parent is just walking out with a big container of some sort, that would raise suspicions, but if a parent was walking out with a lot of other parents at the same time and everyone was carrying projects and so forth, then it would not raise eyebrows, it would be just another parent.
The fair wrapped up at 10, this is when the sub said, oh no there are only 5, where's Kyron? Terri begins what she said is her drive to calm down the baby and Dede is not seen by others on the farm she was working that morning. We have everyone missing at the same time. But who took Kyron out of the school in this senario? Was it the unindentified man that Terri mentioned in that email? I do believe she was told about the man with Kyron. Does she know who the man is?

(bolded by me)

Tracygirl - In an effort to try to keep facts straight I'm commenting on where you said "the sub" in your post. There are  articles with links posted  previously indicating  there wasn't a substitute teacher that morning, but there was a substitute AFTER Kyron's disappearance.  We have so little information we can really put our fingers on it's important to try to keep the facts straight and to correct errors as they're found.  It would appear Tanner is talking about his regular teacher and not a substitute.  I remember reading this in some of the articles, and Tamikosmom copy and pasted an article with the link.  If I go to the link, the story is gone now, which happens.  I might be able to look back far enough and find more articles with links about this subject.  The sub couldn't have said those things Tanner said, because there was no sub at the time, but his teacher may have said it. 

Horman's desk mate says substitute noticed Horman missing
Last Update: 6/11 9:19 am

Eight-year-old Tanner Pumala says the first person to notice Kyron Horman missing was a substitute teacher who was taking a head count as the second and third grade class was re-assembling after visiting other classrooms for a science fair at Skyline School last Friday.

"And she was like 'oh no where's Kyron there's only five' and Mrs. Porter was like it's okay calm down, calm down he's probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I'm going to leave and she left, " says Tanner Pumala.

But, Portland Public School spokesman Matt Shelby said the account can't be true: "There were no substitutes at the school that day (the day Kyron disappeared)," he said.

Shelby thinks Pumala may be confused because all week after the disappearance a subsitute teacher has been at the school to help with the stress of the Horman case.

Tanner is Kyron's deskmate in their combined second-third grade classroom.  Tanner says Kyron was in school for at least an hour Friday morning and that he saw Kyron's step-mother leave the school without Kyron.

F-B-I agents interviewed Pumala, and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton visited with Pumala Wednesday afternoon according to Pumala's grandmother Wendy Fuhrur.

Upon hearing the substitute teacher noticing that Kyron was not present in the classroom, Pumala says the regular teacher said Kyron had probably gone to get a drink of water or to use the bathroom.  It wasn't until the bus ride home from school, says Pumala that he noticed Kyron was not on the bus.  Kyron's step-mother notified school authorities of her son's not being on the bus at around 3:45pm Friday afternoon.

Pumala's grandmother says F-B-I agents and Multnomah County investigators have asked Pumala and his grandmother not to speak with the media, for reasons they did not divulge. Fuhrur says she decided to allow her grandson talk, in part to keep the missing boy in the public eye.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Hormans-desk-mate-says-substitute-noticed-Horman/TVY3YTREG0SyCP3tb3MkZg.cspx

I forgot my "quotes" sorry about that

[Brandi]

hi monks i know this info is here, i just cant find it, what high school did TH son james go to
and did he play soccer,and where did kyron play soccer TIA

I can address the first question:

He was also a voracious reader, spending more than 16 hours a week absorbed in books, he said. But he wasn't a good student. He said he often cut classes at Lincoln High to browse Powell's Books.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

O/T: cw618, check out the URL in my sig line. There is a little something for you there

[Kokos Cat]

Also, it was somewhat confusing to read about searches on Sauvie, particularly in the water and to juxtapose that against there is not one shred of evidence that Kyron is dead. 

 

Yoo~hoo!  Oh, contrare (sp?), Dear Puzzler!

What about the repeated death alerts by K-9 SAR at the same location in the Multnomah Channel off Sauvie Island all summer long and continuing into October?  Eh?  Doesn't sound too healthy to moi!  ~ Just sayin'.   

Combine this intelligence with that specific location on the water and look around at who is to be seen VERY near there on a daily basis and you get a powerful brew.... this was no stranger abduction, IMO.  Which is good, because it will be easier to point the paw and convict.  Hopefully.  Knock on wood.  "Rap, rap."

 

[Kokos Cat]

 

Oo-oo-ps!  Sorry!  I just posted in Rob's quote box... and that was me talkin', not he/him.
I can only speak for myself, which is enough to keep me busy.   

Regards to all Monkeys & their opinions,  I'm just offering mine.  Only.  Just. JMO.

K.  Cat

[cw618]

hi monks i know this info is here, i just cant find it, what high school did TH son james go to
and did he play soccer,and where did kyron play soccer TIA

I can address the first question:

He was also a voracious reader, spending more than 16 hours a week absorbed in books, he said. But he wasn't a good student. He said he often cut classes at Lincoln High to browse Powell's Books.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

O/T: cw618, check out the URL in my sig line. There is a little something for you there

TY you for the info

merry Christmas to you and yours too brandi,happy holidays
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4314.msg1268650#msg1268650

and TY very sweet and nice of you
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4314.msg1268693#msg1268693

happy holidays to all the monkeys and their families

[paula513]

Thank you Muffy...I see that now. I just get so annoyed at Shelby's response....as if the teacher would say Kyron was probably in the bathroom after he was missing for days. The man made a fool of himself.

It's another piece of the puzzle that is difficult to understand. When did this little scenerio play out, before or after the tour of the SF by the chaperone and kids? That has never been clarified. I suppose that's because they don't want to lend credence to the boy's story. It realy calls into question the teacher's claim that she thought Kyron was at a doctor's appointment with TH.

[sassifrass]

JMO, I wouldn't put too much credence in Tanners story. Not because I don't think it's not true, that he saw Kyron, but because I think he may have been, perhaps, coached. JMO.

[Tracygirl]

Sass do you have anything that leads you to the opinion that Tanner was coached or is it a gut feeling? Who was he coached by and why?
There are a few people talking about this family and I am curious.

[sassifrass]

Sass do you have anything that leads you to the opinion that Tanner was coached or is it a gut feeling? Who was he coached by and why?
There are a few people talking about this family and I am curious.

TG: I have so much info in my research files. As far as Tanner being coached, call it a hinky feeling that I haven't been able to prove yet. When some pieces of a puzzle don't fit, then I get suspicious.

I've been researching other areas and haven't come back to him yet.

[hellokitty]

 

Can anyone explain this?

LE has said that TH was the last person to see Kyron.  Many times they have said this.

Now, pray tell, how could Kyron have been in a group?

Tanner's report is from when the kid's reassembled from touring the science fair.

How could Kyron have been in the group if TH was the last to see him and LE said that he never made it to his classroom?

Tanner's report cannot possible be accurate. 

[monchichi]

Can anyone explain this?

LE has said that TH was the last person to see Kyron.  Many times they have said this.

Now, pray tell, how could Kyron have been in a group?

Tanner's report is from when the kid's reassembled from touring the science fair.

How could Kyron have been in the group if TH was the last to see him and LE said that he never made it to his classroom?

Tanner's report cannot possible be accurate. 

Exactly.  I think if he had ever made it to class and been assigned a group, we would have more than Tanner saying it.  I think the group leader, as well as other kids, would remember Kyron being in the group. 

[Rob]

Can anyone explain this?

LE has said that TH was the last person to see Kyron.  Many times they have said this.

Now, pray tell, how could Kyron have been in a group?

Tanner's report is from when the kid's reassembled from touring the science fair.

How could Kyron have been in the group if TH was the last to see him and LE said that he never made it to his classroom?

Tanner's report cannot possible be accurate. 

the police never lie, not ever ever ever.

why did the police ask Tanner's grandmother to remain quite? Why didn't they want her to allow him to talk?

why didn't they want Tanner's account on a public statement that could be scrutinized by us, the public?

Why have they asked others to remain silent? perhaps so WE don't scrutinize those statements too? After-all, that's what WE do.

I find Tanner's account completely believable and so do many other people and it's what kept Terri out of jail to date.

Without that - Terri would have been locked up with a litany of charges and it would have been for a jury to sort out.

Who knows what a jury would have believed, but that's not what mattered - it was put this to rest, getting this little kookie town back to normal.

So in light of no charges and no suspects and a police department that can't find a shred of evidence - it's slandertime.

Let's get everyone and anyone on the same page and ring it.

If that doesn't work - we'll get the exhusband to do it for us and we'll say whatever it takes to get this crazybird to break.

If that doesn't work we'll get the exhusband's deceived exwife to do our dirty work.

If that doesn't work - let's get an illegal alien with multiple aliases and an entire missing family to claim a murder for hire plot. Everyone will believe this one. How couldn't they - it seems sooooo totally believable and we never know who just might believe it. Looks like a winner.

Let's just go with whatever would make sense here at home, but who cares what the rest of the nation may think and after-all, they're not as "local" as we are and don't understand how things work in this neck of the woods.

Whatever it takes - Terri's going to jail - so we can go on goin' on. Evidence be dammed.

yep, it's one strange lil' town that can't get this case solved and I have to wonder why.

[starwynn]

hi monks i know this info is here, i just cant find it, what high school did TH son james go to
and did he play soccer,and where did kyron play soccer TIA

I can address the first question:

He was also a voracious reader, spending more than 16 hours a week absorbed in books, he said. But he wasn't a good student. He said he often cut classes at Lincoln High to browse Powell's Books.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

O/T: cw618, check out the URL in my sig line. There is a little something for you there

WOW I had never read that article before; thank you for putting it up here.  Eeeejjjj.

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks Rob 

[hellokitty]

 

So everyone at the school is being quiet.  Only Tanner is telling the truth.  Even though the parents know that Tanner's story is true, the parents at the school aren't worried that it's some perv and they have bought Tanner's story hook, line and sinker.


And since Kaine , Desiree and Tony aren't that concerned that Kyron is gone, they aren't worried one bit about it not being Terri.  Why bother looking for someone else who might have info about Kyron?

Sorry.  None of that makes one bit of sense. 

The parents in that area would be screaming to high heaven if there is a perv on the loose.  Why aren't they?

[sebastian]

Does anyone know how far you can travel by boat from Suavie Island?

[Kokos Cat]

Does anyone know how far you can travel by boat from Suavie Island?

Out to the ocean... The Multnomah Channel con-nected to the Co-lum-bia.  The Co-lum-bia connected to the Pa-ci-fic.  (Hear jingle:  "Leg bone connected to the... etc., etc.)

[Kokos Cat]

Does anyone know how far you can travel by boat from Suavie Island?

Out to the ocean... The Multnomah Channel con-nected to the Co-lum-bia.  The Co-lum-bia connected to the Pa-ci-fic.  (Hear jingle:  "Leg bone connected to the... etc., etc.)

Oh, I should mention:  It's not smooth sailing, however.  Where the Columbia meets the ocean is one of the roughest passages in the world.  There is a good sized ship graveyard there.  Larger ships use skilled river pilots to make the crossing.   

[Nana29]

Does anyone know how far you can travel by boat from Suavie Island?

Out to the ocean... The Multnomah Channel con-nected to the Co-lum-bia.  The Co-lum-bia connected to the Pa-ci-fic.  (Hear jingle:  "Leg bone connected to the... etc., etc.)

 

[Bearlyhere]

Interesting post alert in blinks site!
Lea Conner says:
December 7, 2010 at 7:43 pm
annals says: December 6, 2010 at 7:44 pm
“Regarding Sheriff Dan Stanton’s 6 hour delay; The statement; “The teacher marked Kyron absent at 10am at the [delayed] start of the school day on June 4″ was reported in a number of articles. I haven’t been able to find confirmation of this in any LE quotes, but it makes some sense that “attendance” may have been delayed until the end of the Science Fair. 10am – 3:46pm is a bit less than 6 hours.”

That’s not accurate. According to Dan Staton, the six hour window begins at the time Kyron disappeared and ends at the time he was reported missing:

“He [Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton] was anguished at losing those vital six hours between the time the 7-year-old boy disappeared from Skyline School on June 4 and when he was reported missing. . .”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html
“3:46 p.m. Skyline School secretary Susan Hall places a call to 9-1-1 about Kyron being missing.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

However, the MCSO website says Ms. Hall called 9-1-1 at 3:56 pm, and 9-1-1 dispatched officers at 3:59 pm.
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/Kyron_PIO_timeline.pdf

What this means is that law enforcement knows Kyron disappeared between approximately 9:46 am and 9:56 am. That means there is a witness who saw Kyron at approximately 9:46 a.m.

This creates a much tighter timeline for events. Based on this information, it would be possible to rule out people who were confirmed to be elsewhere at 9:46 a.m.

What’s interesting about the 9:46 a.m. timeline is that “Chas” claims he saw Terri Horman with Kyron sometime between 9:15 and 9:45 in the morning:

“It was Friday, June 4th, sometime between 9:15 and 9:45 in the morning. ‘Chas’ was heading south on Highway 30, on his way to work when a white truck pulled out onto the road. “It came out of one of these side streets, I am not exactly positive which one, but I am pretty much sure that it was north of Logie Trail road.” Logie Trail Road is right across from Sauvie Island. One of the areas investigators have searched several times. ‘I recognize that truck because I have a friend that has a similar truck and I thought it was him.’”
http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Terri-wants-money-to-move-out-Kyron-Horman/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx?p=10

Andrea Leckey claimed to have seen Terri Horman at Fred Meyer sometime between 9:30 am and 9:50 am.

“Andrea Leckey saw Terri at FM#2 on Walker Rd. (It was inside the store, and the baby was with her (said at 1:14 in this video) http://www.ktvl.com/video/?videoId=581589824001&play=now Andrea knows that she herself was 2.2 and 6 minutes away at Border Books by 10:00am (2605 Southwest Cedar Hills Boulevard, Beaverton, OR 97005). We do not know if she ran into Terri BEFORE or AFTER she was done with her own shopping, or how long Andrea shopped –so we can’t nail the time at this point… she must have driven away from FM at the latest 9:54am.”
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/KH/khtimeline.pdf

DeDe Spicher was allegedly missing from Westwind Farms from 9:45 am until 1 pm on June 4:
“On Sunday, KGW reported that investigators have been searching the property where Spicher was gardening on June 4. Reliable sources told KGW that Spicher left that area at 9:45 a.m. and was unaccounted for until 1 p.m. that day.”

http://www.kgw.com/news/2nd-person-seen-in-Terri-Hormans-truck-100301534.html

At an August 11, press conference, MCSO asked for witnesses who saw Kaine Horman’s Ford F250 pickup truck at the Walker Road Fred Meyer store at “approximately 10 am” on June 4.

Law enforcement asked for witnesses who saw Mr. Horman’s truck “on or near Skyline Boulevard between approximately Springville Road and Newberry Road including on or about Germantown Road and / or Old Germantown Road at approximately 10:15 am to 11:30 am on June 4.”
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf

On June 14, MCSO requested video of specific locations that was taken on June 3 to June 4. These locations are consistent with the route traveled by Terri Horman to the two Fred Meyers stores. They are also consistent with the the sighting reported by “Chas.”

These are also the main routes that the kidnapper most likely would have traveled following the abduction.

This is not to say that MCSO had “proof” implicating anyone. It simply shows that the focus has been on a much narrower window of time (9:45 am to 3:59 pm).

In order for Terri Horman to be a viable suspect, there would be a narrow window of time for the crime to occur, beginning at 9:45 am and ending at 11:39 am when she checked in at 24-hour Fitness at 1265 NW Waterhouse Ave. in Beaverton.

That time frame is too short a time period for someone left Skyline elementary at 8:45 am, driven to Sunset Fred Meyer, 22085 NW Imbrie Dr. in Hillsboro by 9:12 am, turned around and driven to Walker Road Fred Meyer, 11536 NW Skyline Blvd. in Portland, then back to Skyline Elementary by 9:45 am.

In my opinion, the timeline simply doesn’t work with the schedule of Ms. Horman’s whereabouts on June 4.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Investigator says: December 6, 2010 at 7:01 pm
“As I’m reading along here about the strange report of the 1 hour difference in time the Sheriff reported, (6 hours vs 7 hours), I had a thought. Has anyone considered whether TH could have drugged or otherwise subdued Kyron and placed him somewhere for someone else to pick up later? The school was open until 10am before classes started. Someone could easily have come in at 9:30-9:45 and removed him from a prearranged location (in a duffel bag perhaps?) and walked out of the school with him unnoticed.”

Based on Sheriff Dan Staton’s most recent comments, law enforcement has someone who saw Kyron at the school sometime between approximately 9:45 am and 9:56 am. This strongly suggests that whoever saw Kyron also saw the abductor (hence Blink’s comment about a description but not a name), even if that person did not know that he or she was witnessing an abduction in progress.

It also explains why Sheriff Staton is so certain it’s a six hour window from the time Kyron was abducted until the time he was reported missing at 3:56 pm.

More interesting, it also suggests that Tanner Pumala was correct in his timeline — and version — of events:
“8-year-old Tanner Pumala, a desk mate of Kyron says, ‘I went downstairs, and that was the last time I saw him and I never seen him after that,’ Tanner told KOIN news. Tanner said, the class was regrouping and it was the substitute that noticed Kyron was missing. ‘And she was like “oh no where’s Kyron there’s only five” and Mrs. Porter was like it’s okay calm down, calm down he’s probably in the bathroom or getting a drink of water and she said alright I’m going to leave and she left,’ says Tanner Pumala.”

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/search-for-missing-kyron-horman-is-now-a-criminal-case

Tanner may be mistaken in his terminology when he calls the second adult a “substitute. However, given that the other parts of his story apparently check out, there’s a strong likelihood that he was correct as to the presence of a second adult in the classroom that day.

If there was a second adult assisting the teacher that day, then why is Skyline Elementary not willing to admit it? Or is the presence of the second person proof positive that Skyline Elementary failed to promptly report Kyron’s abduction?

Perfect word, and the anguish continues.