Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #37 12/5/10 - 12/18/10

[islandmonkey]

Let's go with the predator. He is in the school. How does he get him out ?
What if it was a school employee who had keys to the maintenance rooms and Kyron was in there all day, after being molested at the school ?
..
Something I was thinking about today was, Terri said the bell rang and she walked him to near his classroom. Let's not believe anything Terri says. The bell rang every day at the same time.
What if she was out of there earlier than when the bell rang ? Bell rings, all the kids know it's time to head back to class, Science Fair is over for the parents and public, they would all be leaving at around the same time, we have never heard of anyone seeing her leave. With or without Kyron. She is using the time the bell rang and the receipt of the store she was at to fix her timeline.

Hi Kat~I think it depends on pure rumor and speculation. IIRC in the beginning Tyler stated he saw Kyron headed towards the "cool electric one" after Terri had left, then Tanner stated he saw Kyron in the gym around 9am, not with Terri but he did say he saw the truck.....and I also thought there was someone from the school that stated that saw Kyron leave with Terri, basically nothing from LE stating anything factual to my knowledge of who left with Kyron. I sometimes think the perp could be somehow known to the school and maintence etc., someone possibly subcontracted out by PPS, and then they removed Kyron in all the chaos somehow in a container of some form. Also, pls correct me if I am wrong as I thought the science fair was over when the bell rang too, but I thought someone from Skyline stated that was just the time the kids broke into groups and parents could stay.

Then I also consider she had help, and accomplice and is behind it, or someone let the monster in......problem is I have seen nothing I can verify at all to match any of the theories, mine included except her odd behavoir but then again I think all of them acted odd in the beginning? That's why it's so confusing and  ::monkeywine2::is starting to look better.

BBM~very interesting Kat....I can't even remember anymore IF the bell rang the same time that day or not anymore

[sebastian]

Here is on of the latest comments by Blink

Guilty, a little guilty, the mastermind, whatever, that information right now, changes nothing.

I have a better chance of levitating than pinning this on her today.

But if I focus on efforts that do not seem to focus on her at all- what do we see?
B

At first I thought that Blink is under the belief that Terri is involved but had help and that LE is looking for her accomplice. With Blinks latest statement, I am not sure. Does anyone else have better insight than me? HELP!

Basically, I think it means this (from Blink's point of view):

LE does not believe Kyron left the school with Terri.
That leads them to think that there was either an accomplice or an independent person.
Therefore, the focus needs to be on "the person" that took Kyron from the school.
Focus on the person and finding that person...would then lead you to the connection with Terri...if there is one.

In other words, by focusing on Terri, who LE says didn't take Kyron from the school, is NOT focusing on the person who took Kyron.

Need to focus on finding the person who "physically" took Kyron from the school. 

Thank you Puzzler! This makes sense now. Was it Stenson who stated that there were kids playing out front during the Science Fair? Weren't those kids unattended? I can remember many events at schools where kids played outside when their parents were inside looking at displays, talking to teachers etc. It just goes to show you that you can never leave your child unattended. PERIOD. Sad world that we live in.

[Kat_Gram]

IIRC, the kids were to go to their classrooms and assemble in small groups to view the projects of the other kids. In Terri's email, she stated that he was seen with a man chaperone and a couple of girls, but let's not believe what she says. And we don't know who her source was for that one.
And Stenson did say he saw some kids outside unattended.
...
I don't think she had an accomplice. I don't think she premeditated hurting Kyron.
However, I can she her flipping out. Not based on anything Kaine says, cause lets not believe anything he says either. All we can look at is her emails and see what her state of mind was towards her life that she wasn't liking with Kaine.

[islandmonkey]

IIRC, the kids were to go to their classrooms and assemble in small groups to view the projects of the other kids. In Terri's email, she stated that he was seen with a man chaperone and a couple of girls, but let's not believe what she says. And we don't know who her source was for that one.
And Stenson did say he saw some kids outside unattended.
...
I don't think she had an accomplice. I don't think she premeditated hurting Kyron.
However, I can she her flipping out. Not based on anything Kaine says, cause lets not believe anything he says either. All we can look at is her emails and see what her state of mind was towards her life that she wasn't liking with Kaine.

I could see her snapping as well as any scenario, but how did she get him out of the school ? I need to go back and read her FB pages and emails she sent the news outlets. I keep having to go and look again in this case, ramming my head in the wall.

[sebastian]

I thought I would bring this over before it vanishes. It is an e-book written by one of Terri's facebook supporters. I have not read it yet, so please don't kill the messenger

[sebastian]

I thought I would bring this over before it vanishes. It is an e-book written by one of Terri's facebook supporters. I have not read it yet, so please don't kill the messenger

http://www.whoisjohnnywestern.com/social_networking/Blog/Entries/2010/9/27_No_news_is_no_news.html

[islandmonkey]

I thought I would bring this over before it vanishes. It is an e-book written by one of Terri's facebook supporters. I have not read it yet, so please don't kill the messenger

http://www.whoisjohnnywestern.com/social_networking/Blog/Entries/2010/9/27_No_news_is_no_news.html

Thanks Sebastian.....no kids tonight and I am bumming and slumming I don't know if it's true or not as I never watch Oprah, but was it true that there were only 3 minutes of the taped interview?

[sebastian]

I thought I would bring this over before it vanishes. It is an e-book written by one of Terri's facebook supporters. I have not read it yet, so please don't kill the messenger

http://www.whoisjohnnywestern.com/social_networking/Blog/Entries/2010/9/27_No_news_is_no_news.html

Thanks Sebastian.....no kids tonight and I am bumming and slumming I don't know if it's true or not as I never watch Oprah, but was it true that there were only 3 minutes of the taped interview?

"Bumming and slumming", you are too funny Island Monkey! I have no idea about how long the taped interview was. All I know, is that now that I have read the blog, unless I missed something, it is a real snooze-fest!

[islandmonkey]

I thought I would bring this over before it vanishes. It is an e-book written by one of Terri's facebook supporters. I have not read it yet, so please don't kill the messenger

http://www.whoisjohnnywestern.com/social_networking/Blog/Entries/2010/9/27_No_news_is_no_news.html

Thanks Sebastian.....no kids tonight and I am bumming and slumming I don't know if it's true or not as I never watch Oprah, but was it true that there were only 3 minutes of the taped interview?

"Bumming and slumming", you are too funny Island Monkey! I have no idea about how long the taped interview was. All I know, is that now that I have read the blog, unless I missed something, it is a real snooze-fest!

It's so true and you know it  we are BUMS, hardworking rednecks bums but still.........very quiet night, but not as little activity as that snooze fest  I do appreciate you posting it though

[Scandi]

I will leave you all with this.

Over the last few year - I have been following some of the more intrinsic cases. These cases are what they are for a reason.

I often wonder if it is people like Melissa Baum that are targeted because they are working / over worked / not as attentive / don't have the skills that we all often associate with raising children.

This is in no way to say that these people do not love their kids. Of course they do. But somewhere someone see that they have a small hole in their life that may be exploited - and sometimes it is.

In the case of Kyron Horman there are so many holes that could be exploited by a pedophile of by a person with an axe to grind that it is literally impossible to know what happened here without real forensic evidence. And that's what I need. Not some "feelings" or propaganda from a deceived former spouse.

Anyone looking for less is asking for a quick and easy settlement and not the truth. I'm after the truth no matter where it leads and I am willing to accept that TRUTH no matter where it leads - can others say that?

The truth is the truth - and to date - the truth is concealed by those that think you can't handle the truth.

Rob, maybe it is simply that LE doesn't feel that giving the truth to the public at this point will enhance or further the investigation.  We have seen tight lipped LE investigations which will come forward with info for the media,, to put something out there when they want something to be known by the public for a reason.  Like in Lindsey's case, where they were said use the media as a 'tool' to further the investigation.  I'd have to watch the video again, but in the Kyron Presser about the white truck being parked on the access road LE even stated they were putting this out there as they had witnesses to that fact and wanted further acclimation to it being seen there.


Yea, I think several times the investigation team in Kyron's case has reached out for help from the public for witnesses to certain occurrences.  Tight to the vest but keeping the public as their ally to help further the investigation.

I don't think it even crosses the mind of LE that the public they are targeting can't handle the truth about what they have seen or witnessed.  IMO


xox


PS:  Rob,  I have often had your same thought that people like MB are often targeted because they are easy targets, not having the skills or pool of sources to call on, like you or I would if our child was taken.  I don't think that is always the cas, as some children are taken because of opportunity and not targeted specifically.  Way too often tho we see the children of those from dysfunctional families suffering.  It is so sad, as these children seem to hardly have a chance at a happy and normal life.

[Scandi]

OMG, Self-edit the post above to read: resources instead of sources in the last paragraph and in the next sentence to read case instead of cas.  Jeepers  xox

[Scandi]

Scandi and Rob I so agree about Maddy's case, that case from the beginning left a horrible taste in one's mouth. Scandi I didn't know this either since Kyron's case, how high up on the list your area is for children being led into sexual slavery. Very disturbing, and just like with Maddy's case, Kyron's case something hasn't felt right from the beginning.

Hi No rose,  To me children who are made subject to human trafficking are being led into sexual slavery since that is why the predators take them.  Here is an article that says Portland is #2 in the nation for this huge problem:

http://www.newsregister.com/article/44595-editorial+portland+ranks+high+human+trafficking+trade
Edit to fix link.  MB

xox

[Scandi]

My link didn't take correctly and so another self edit:  http://www.newsregister.com/article/44595-editorial+portland+ranks+high+human+trafficking+trade

[sebastian]

http://forums.radionewz.net/index.php?topic=292.0

Interesting but VERY scary info about Portland and its cults and pedophiles. Not for the faint of heart. I had to stop reading it, too late at night, ugh!

[Scandi]

I think most folks will agree that this case is some sort of snatch-n-grab-n-go scenario. It's obvious. It's the only kind of case this can be. If there is another scenario - I'm not sure what it could be.

That said - what kind of snatch-n-grab-n-go scenario?

There is the obvious kind where a pedophile pulls up in a car and tries to grab a kid and pulls that kid into a car. This is the type we are all most familiar.

Then there is this case where some believe that Terri masterminded a snatch-n-grab-n-go scenario at a SCHOOL. If it is to be believed that Terri didn't leave with Kyron - that leaves only two other possibilities in a snatch-n-grab-n-go scenario. She had an accomplice that was willing to risk everything for her - including life in prison if caught. I can hardly envision how the sales pitch for this must have went down.

I want you to abduct my step son from a school during a science fair and do whatever it is that is necessary so that I never see him again.

Who is going to just go along with this? I mean really. It's a huge stretch to believe that someone just says ok, let's do it. Looking at that realistically - it's hard to fathom that someone is just going to risk everything with this highly risky abduction. Most anyone would say - this is too RISKY, let's try something else.

And truth be known, Terri could have just plowed Kyron's side of the truck into a tree or oncoming traffic.

So to me - this accomplice thing seems a like a stretch from the point of view that someone would take a risk that could be contained by simply changing the abduction location where fewer people would possibly witness it. But once most figured out that Terri's timeline was too tight and she was seen without Kyron at several locations - it had to be someone so tight that they couldn't refuse her offer. To me - it makes little sense.

It's more probable that someone just snatch'd-n-grabb'd-n-gone when Kyron was near his classroom door, or when he went down stairs to see the cool electric experiment. His classroom door was near an exit and all steps in schools leads to doors - it's for safety, or in this case - not safe at all.

So if you believe that the new list was to identify a person not yet accounted for - and what else could it really be? There is someone that the police have focused on and that goes beyond Terri. The only question is - is this person an accomplice of Terri's or a random lunatic that saw a crime of opportunity?

If this focus would have been here it should have been six months ago - this case might have been solved. Memories fade - people move and they also die.

I have the thought it was a planned 'snatch and go' with Kyron knowing the perpatrator.

I think it could possibly be that Kyron had been given freely to this perpy person way before that day and it is the reason Kyron didn't want to come back from Desiree's, full panic on his part ensuing, to have to be indulged further in what was going on at his home in Portland.

It is just a thought, but one that has been growing in my mind that seems to make sense of what happened.  If this person had a devious use for Kyron, it had been presented to him before and he was so offended by it, as a child he would have no power to resist it or fight back.  That means his step mom would have given of him freely, allowing it to happen, and when she believed the affection given to this child was way beyond that given to her, for all she did, she simply allowed this person by circumstances engineered by her to let Kyron to go on to this person, for his enjoyment, with the safety of Kyron to be the last thing she would ever care about.

It is awful to even consider, but maybe TH was not a party to Kyron's death or disposal but engineered the taking of him to get him out of her life !!!  She might not have any idea what happened to him or where he is now, but she knows who 'got' him, and that is why she has spoken almost not one word about it since that day when he simply disappeared off the face of the earth.  It keeps her safe for now and LE wil have to depend on other testimony than hers to nail the one who took off with Kyron.  IMO

[Scandi]

http://forums.radionewz.net/index.php?topic=292.0

Interesting but VERY scary info about Portland and its cults and pedophiles. Not for the faint of heart. I had to stop reading it, too late at night, ugh!

Hi Dear Sebastian,  Having read allot about the problem when our Mayor, Sam Adams, was caught almost red-handed, having had a sexual encounter with an under aged guy in the bathroom of City Hall  { !!! }, it rocked my sanity to learn what really happens with guys like this.

When the pedo starts to get older he becomes the master of grooming who he wants, usually a much younger guy, who will grow to be his 'boy', and the bond is formed. 

So being a pedo is not just a lust that occurs spontaneously.  As that person matures, with many conquerings behind him notched on his belt, he sets the stage for who he will have to please him in the future.  Somewhat like the fly who traps the beautiful insect in his web. 

To me that is the ultimate slap on the face for the danger these people present to society.

xox

[Puzzler]

I thought I would bring this over before it vanishes. It is an e-book written by one of Terri's facebook supporters. I have not read it yet, so please don't kill the messenger

http://www.whoisjohnnywestern.com/social_networking/Blog/Entries/2010/9/27_No_news_is_no_news.html

Thanks Sebastian.....no kids tonight and I am bumming and slumming I don't know if it's true or not as I never watch Oprah, but was it true that there were only 3 minutes of the taped interview?

Yes, out of the long interview, Oprah aired only a few minutes. 

[Monkey King]

Another thing which I had forgotten- the local pig farmer.
Sinc
e the SF was over by 10am, and the TS was to begin at 1pm, I'm assuming the students went back to class after the SF,
 had attendance called, and then the students got ready for lunch.

When were "leftovers" ready for pick-up (or delivery) and who delivered/picked them up?
Could this be why the timeline was extended?

[Monkey King]

Granted, the pig farmer is a dispicable thought, but since the school has 'gone green', it has to be considered, as all things.

[Rob]

Here's the part I don't get.

Kyron is marked absent at roughly 10 am. So, somewhere between roughly 9 am and 10 am something happened. During this time nobody seems to have seen him and that leads most to believe that Terri has taken him based on a doctors appointment - IIRC.

Terri's account is that she left him near the classroom and heard the bell - she left. Her timeline for her drive to FM is rather tight. No one sees Kyron with her - that we know of. He's not seen in the truck and not witnessed sitting in the truck by paaser-bys at the FM. Even though a request was made to see if someone did infact see the truck - but more importantly - if Kyron was there BEFORE the trip to Sauvie Island.

during the time of 9 am to 10 am - no one thinks it's odd that Kyron is no where to be seen? During this sixty minute period no children say - hey where is Kyron? and it is only discovered later that he is no where to be seen? And then to top it off - when the teacher is alerted - she says Calm down??? huh - why calm down? and then follows that up with ok, I'm leaving..???

WTHECK... doesn't this seem odd to anyone else? The phrase calm down seems bizarre to me. Why the NEED to calm down? Then after some emotional encountered is identified by the TEACHER - who we all hope has been trained to deal and work with children - she says she is leaving... HUH?? I think the proper response MIGHT have been - I'll go find him. Be right back. Sit at your desks.

+++

Next - sorry to reference Maddy McCann again - but there are some similarities here and although every case is different - this is where I get some knowledge. Sorry again.

During this case - many of the same things occurred - parents that weren't paying attention to their kids and one went missing. The parents were accused and most thought they were guilty of something. In the end - the McCanns have been cleared. It took a while but that's what happened. When alot of posters realized that the McCanns could not have disposed of Maddy due to the fact that they didn't know their way around enough to make it an undiscovered uncovered death / homicide - alot of posters then started blaming the Tapas Group.

During this case Jane Tanner stated that she saw a man carrying a child wrapped in a blanket. She was rounded criticized as a liar. It was later published in several newspapers worldwide that the man had distinctive features and that led to many possibilities and one guy on his death bed. Also during the case cadaver dogs hit on the car boot and that was the lynch pin for those on the fence, soastospeak. But Maddy was never in that car - and the car was rented after she went missing. The car was used to make a trip to Spain - which had posters saying that the McCanns dug up Maddy from a church and placed her in the car and buried her on the way to Spain.

The dogs were wrong in this case and even Red once said he had seen occurrences where a cadaver dog walked right past a dead body and didn't alert. It happens. The only thing that appeared to be in the car's boot was a diaper bag with used nappies.

But that wasn't the end of it - some then thought that someone had also rented the exact same car and had dug up Maddy and the laws of numerics were broken. The chances were astronomical - but that was in play too. People actually considerd as a working theory that someone at an earlier date had dug up Maddy - using the same Renault - left evidence that would then be discovered by the police and pin the McCanns.

In the end - it is almost a certainty that Maddy was taken by a brazen pedophile while her parents and friends ate at the pool bar only 150 feet away. It's also likely that this person may have been watching the McCanns and Tanners over the first few days at De Luz.

Usually the simplest theory is the correct one. Not always - but usually. If you discount all the information from Tanner and Tyler - and others IN the school - only to focus on Terri's odd behavior - which by the way - a good defense attorney will explain away at a trial (And it's all circumstantial anyway) you might / may be missing the most essential portions of the case.

Afterall - the crime is alleged to have occurred in the school or on the school grounds.

Lastly - I could see how Terri could flip and do something to Kyron - I'm not blind to that possibility. What I can't figure out is how that happened BEFORE Sauvie WHERE she could toss Kyron off of a bridge. How does she have the time and disposal method that no one has discovered to date. Many have said there are 45 agencies working on the case - how did she commit the crime and dispose of Kyron  - or hand off Kyron  - within a specific time frame and no one can figure that out? Beside the fact that there doesn't seem to be anyone who saw Kyron with her.

Apparently Terri is triangulated to Sauvie and she MUST HAVE BEEN triangulated for a period of time that allows a reasonable person to conclude that she was there long enough to have committed a crime. This appears to not be true for the rest of her journey where her time is accounted and she has proof of her whereabouts.