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Author Topic: Zahra Clare Baker #10 1/5/11 - 9/17/11  (Read 263585 times)
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Monkey King
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« Reply #720 on: February 28, 2011, 12:19:10 PM »

It would seem to me since LE was unable to recover all of Zahra's remains, any deal should be null and void. I also don't seem AB as the grieving father. He lived in that household and needs to be accountable as well.
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Monkey King
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« Reply #721 on: February 28, 2011, 12:22:01 PM »

Zahra's skull could potentially implicae AB as well.
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Justice for Natalee


« Reply #722 on: February 28, 2011, 01:12:00 PM »

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14155100

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SuzieQ
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Justice for Natalee


« Reply #723 on: February 28, 2011, 01:14:24 PM »

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14155100


Elisa Baker hit with new indictments, bringing total charges to 21

NEWTON, NC (WBTV) - Exactly one week after being indicted on second-degree murder charges, the stepmother of a dead Hickory girl was hit with more indictments.

Elisa Baker, 42, stepmother of Zahra Baker, was indicted Monday morning by a Caldwell County grand jury on two counts each of financial identity fraud and obtaining property by false pretenses, officials said.

 ::snipping2::
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starwynn
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« Reply #724 on: February 28, 2011, 07:13:39 PM »

It would seem to me since LE was unable to recover all of Zahra's remains, any deal should be null and void. I also don't seem AB as the grieving father. He lived in that household and needs to be accountable as well.

Thank you! I agree.  They didn't find Zahra.  They found her torso.  I have had no end of anger about this, feeling like Zahra - what EB *allowed* police to find - is like a further broken doll, further humiliated by a most important part being hidden (her head).  She perpetuates the crime by holding back the locations - still!  I mean, really - would you forget where you put something like that?  NO.

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Monkey King
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« Reply #725 on: March 01, 2011, 04:45:04 AM »

It would seem to me since LE was unable to recover all of Zahra's remains, any deal should be null and void. I also don't seem AB as the grieving father. He lived in that household and needs to be accountable as well.

Thank you! I agree.  They didn't find Zahra.  They found her torso.  I have had no end of anger about this, feeling like Zahra - what EB *allowed* police to find - is like a further broken doll, further humiliated by a most important part being hidden (her head).  She perpetuates the crime by holding back the locations - still!  I mean, really - would you forget where you put something like that?  NO.



Hi Starwynn!

Maybe EB doesn't "know" exactly where Zahra's skull is as perhaps AB is the one who disposed of it...?
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« Reply #726 on: March 01, 2011, 05:06:11 AM »

have no fear,i truly believe, LE will get their man,
and he eat will eat his words
in jpg,i captured adam face b4 and after,the word murderer and no

Doesn't looking down and to the left signify lying ?

It's supposed to, yes.  Upwards is trying to recall something. I can't recall what to the right means.  Down I think could be shame or lying.

Personally, and this is just IMO, I think that the only really truthful thing that AB said was that it made him "Sick".  That was a truly felt word, and I believe he meant it.  I believe he meant it in a different way than he wants us to think, however.  And I cannot shake the feeling that when he looks down, in his mind he is looking down at what he saw when he saw a dead and harmed Zahra.  I absolutely can't unthink that.

I vacillate on whether or not I believe AB dispersed Zahra, but honestly seeing that the finds in the main grave were a full torso (minus much else), despite EB's determination and size I can't see how she managed to take that portion out of the trunk, dig the hole, and bury the torso (and, I believe, the head - explaining the small head-sized hole that was empty beside the main grave site).  I don't believe for a second that he came up with the idea of separating her body parts, and I think that's where his truthfulness comes in for the key word for him "sick".  I don't think he would have done that, or any of this, without EB.  I believe him when he says that Zahra would be alive if not for EB.  I believe him when he says she was manipulative - and I believe that subconsciously he finishes that sentence with "manipulative enough for me to follow her instructions as to what to do with the now-dead Zahra".  I don't see how she would know how to run the wood chipper, which I think pretty much explains the missing hands and feet.  NOt so much the arms, as the left arm was found dispersed, and I think that probably the other arm and legs are all in different places.  I still believe the head was with the torso - because of that hole, but that scavenger animals did what they do.  I don't believe she kept it as a token.  I don't think she had to.  I think she's the type that would be so insistent on covering her own arse that she wouldn't keep it.  Now - if someone else helped her, maybe someone who cared more for Zahra... maybe they kept it, or went back and retrieved it.  THe head is a very important part emotionally to people.  (To me, too - that's the part that really just bothers me - the heart, and no sternum - as if she took the very soul and heart out of the girl, every bit that made her Zahra...... monster!!!!).  But oddly, I don't think AB would have gone back for the head, or saved it.  I would think it was someone else. 

I wish they would find more evidence, could clarify the pings more clearly, that they could possibly bait EB into thinking that she'll stand alone for the charges and try to get more information out of her that way - like - where is the head??  Where were the upper arms and legs??  She knows this - she knows where they're supposed to be.  They need to squeeze the information out of her. Or wring it.  Or beat it. 

Wow, Starwynn intense post!  You managed to put our "hinky" feelings into words and then paint a picture. This part of your post really stood out for me: 
"And I cannot shake the feeling that when he looks down, in his mind he is looking down at what he saw when he saw a dead and harmed Zahra." 

AB just runs all over me.  I do believe he is controlled by EB, but his poorly cloaked deception screams out his culpability in this heinous act towards sweet innocent Zahra. I just find it inconceivable that he is so stupid he actually thinks anyone other than his equally controlling Mother believes his far-fetched story.
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starwynn
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« Reply #727 on: March 01, 2011, 04:03:23 PM »

It would seem to me since LE was unable to recover all of Zahra's remains, any deal should be null and void. I also don't seem AB as the grieving father. He lived in that household and needs to be accountable as well.

Thank you! I agree.  They didn't find Zahra.  They found her torso.  I have had no end of anger about this, feeling like Zahra - what EB *allowed* police to find - is like a further broken doll, further humiliated by a most important part being hidden (her head).  She perpetuates the crime by holding back the locations - still!  I mean, really - would you forget where you put something like that?  NO.



Hi Starwynn!

Maybe EB doesn't "know" exactly where Zahra's skull is as perhaps AB is the one who disposed of it...?

I thought about that, too.  I would think she would be able to say "Adam took parts a,b,c, and I took d."   
I really have no idea why AB isn't in jail, and it's so offensive to me that he is not.
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starwynn
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« Reply #728 on: March 01, 2011, 04:19:25 PM »


Wow, Starwynn intense post!  You managed to put our "hinky" feelings into words and then paint a picture. This part of your post really stood out for me: 
"And I cannot shake the feeling that when he looks down, in his mind he is looking down at what he saw when he saw a dead and harmed Zahra." 

AB just runs all over me.  I do believe he is controlled by EB, but his poorly cloaked deception screams out his culpability in this heinous act towards sweet innocent Zahra. I just find it inconceivable that he is so stupid he actually thinks anyone other than his equally controlling Mother believes his far-fetched story.


Unfortunately, at one point in my life I unknowingly allowed a person in my life who was a thief, a manipulator, a habitual liar, and what I call a "survivalist".  Not "survivalist" as in bomb shelter and 20 years worth of food.  But a person who, as a child, somehow determined that in order to survive, they needed to lie, steal, sneak, and cheat.  It didn't matter if you were her friend or enemy; she couldn't help but lie to you, it was such an ingrained habit.  I think of her a lot when I hear stories about EB.  Men (the source of her original need to survive) were thus used to survive; she was a serial man-user, much like EB.  And she knew what men liked, so she cull pull them in like flies to honey.  And then she'd manipulate them, spend their money, had a great house, tons of jewelry, anything she wanted, completely spoiled, while working two or three men.  She didn't marry them.

The men weren't all idiots.  In her case, she liked smart men.  In EB's case, she tends to like insecure men, or men with self-esteem issues.  Adam is not attractive, and he has a daughter already, and lived with mummy, and hadn't much money.  Adam was a loser, a serial batchelor, and EB knows what men like, especially men who either have never 'had any' or don't often come by 'any'.

Adam's his mummy's boy.  She's a bossy-hen, and he likely was comfortable falling in step right behind her (proverbially, and literally as his videos in the US show).  I am shocked that EB won over him, but EB had one thing mummy couldn't provide:  sex.  So EB made Adam (finally) feel like a big boy, and Adam fell in step right behind her to America.

And then got stuck.

I believe that they fought like cats and dogs in their apartment.  I bet he tried to fight, but in the end what was he going to do?  He is too much of a follower (and by now he was in legal trouble by being in the US illegally).  He gave in, followed her to her next place.  Then he started doing what she did:  threatening assault, doing hinky money deals, etc.  She wore him down.  Even Mr. Young still does what EB has him do, doesn't he?  He let her call him her brother for ages, knowing full well how harmful that was to others.

She's good.

Adam probably has gotten away with enough smaller stuff with EB to think that people are just as stupid as she says they are.  She's the fox in the chicken yard, and she taught him to be like her.  I'm sure she held his immigration status, and the US's death penalty, over his head when she told him he needed to take his daughter out and use that equipment on her.  She said it - she thought she was going to save them both!  I would take that as a full truth, only not just in regards to the letter - but to everything.  She couldn't, after all, have HIM caught - because she would be looked at, too.

I think he thinks, through EB's coaching, that we really are that stupid.  Obviously, we're empowering that thought process by so far allowing him out of jail and now only prosecuting EB and not him.

Maybe he's right?
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« Reply #729 on: March 01, 2011, 08:34:52 PM »

DON'T MISS THE DANA PRETZER SHOW TONIGHT AT 9PM ET:

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TnMuse
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« Reply #730 on: March 02, 2011, 12:25:27 AM »


Unfortunately, at one point in my life I unknowingly allowed a person in my life who was a thief, a manipulator, a habitual liar, and what I call a "survivalist".  Not "survivalist" as in bomb shelter and 20 years worth of food.  But a person who, as a child, somehow determined that in order to survive, they needed to lie, steal, sneak, and cheat.  It didn't matter if you were her friend or enemy; she couldn't help but lie to you, it was such an ingrained habit.  I think of her a lot when I hear stories about EB.  Men (the source of her original need to survive) were thus used to survive; she was a serial man-user, much like EB.  And she knew what men liked, so she cull pull them in like flies to honey.  And then she'd manipulate them, spend their money, had a great house, tons of jewelry, anything she wanted, completely spoiled, while working two or three men.  She didn't marry them.

The men weren't all idiots.  In her case, she liked smart men.  In EB's case, she tends to like insecure men, or men with self-esteem issues.  Adam is not attractive, and he has a daughter already, and lived with mummy, and hadn't much money.  Adam was a loser, a serial batchelor, and EB knows what men like, especially men who either have never 'had any' or don't often come by 'any'.

Adam's his mummy's boy.  She's a bossy-hen, and he likely was comfortable falling in step right behind her (proverbially, and literally as his videos in the US show).  I am shocked that EB won over him, but EB had one thing mummy couldn't provide:  sex.  So EB made Adam (finally) feel like a big boy, and Adam fell in step right behind her to America.

And then got stuck.

I believe that they fought like cats and dogs in their apartment.  I bet he tried to fight, but in the end what was he going to do?  He is too much of a follower (and by now he was in legal trouble by being in the US illegally).  He gave in, followed her to her next place.  Then he started doing what she did:  threatening assault, doing hinky money deals, etc.  She wore him down.  Even Mr. Young still does what EB has him do, doesn't he?  He let her call him her brother for ages, knowing full well how harmful that was to others.

She's good.

Adam probably has gotten away with enough smaller stuff with EB to think that people are just as stupid as she says they are.  She's the fox in the chicken yard, and she taught him to be like her.  I'm sure she held his immigration status, and the US's death penalty, over his head when she told him he needed to take his daughter out and use that equipment on her.  She said it - she thought she was going to save them both!  I would take that as a full truth, only not just in regards to the letter - but to everything.  She couldn't, after all, have HIM caught - because she would be looked at, too.

I think he thinks, through EB's coaching, that we really are that stupid.  Obviously, we're empowering that thought process by so far allowing him out of jail and now only prosecuting EB and not him.

Maybe he's right?

I have also known a few people with the personality traits of a "survivalist". The hurt they cause to almost everyone whose lives they touch can be devastating.  I realize people like this have no conscience, but that's the only part I understand.

I believe your insight into this whole situation is right on target.  You are right about Mr. Young, but isn't it also amazing that everyone else in the family protected her secret too?  Like you said: "She's Good".
 
I think LE's tactics of letting AB roam free are to further enrage EB so she will talk some more.  That is what worked in the past.   But IMO it is time to take AB out from under Mummy's thumb to see if HE crumbles when there's no one around him to call the shots.
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starwynn
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« Reply #731 on: March 02, 2011, 02:03:05 AM »


I have also known a few people with the personality traits of a "survivalist". The hurt they cause to almost everyone whose lives they touch can be devastating.  I realize people like this have no conscience, but that's the only part I understand.

I believe your insight into this whole situation is right on target.  You are right about Mr. Young, but isn't it also amazing that everyone else in the family protected her secret too?  Like you said: "She's Good".
 
I think LE's tactics of letting AB roam free are to further enrage EB so she will talk some more.  That is what worked in the past.   But IMO it is time to take AB out from under Mummy's thumb to see if HE crumbles when there's no one around him to call the shots.

Oh that's an interesting thought.  Do you think that the lawyer, and his limited contact with his mom, would buffer him enough to keep him from crumbling?  I hadn't thought about that, that and what being finally put into jail (when apparently he thinks he's scott-free) would do to his confidence.

Sometimes I wish I knew what their strategy was, because it can really get frustrating.
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« Reply #732 on: March 02, 2011, 08:56:12 PM »

Hi Dear Monkeys,

FWIW look what made the front page of the paper today!

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2011/mar/01/attorney-cited-driving-without-license-and-speedin-ar-824547/
 ::snipping2::
Attorney cited for driving without a license and speeding

Hickory --
High-profile Hickory attorney Lisa Dubs was cited for driving without an operator’s license and driving 70 miles per hour in a 55-mph zone last week.
 ::snipping2::

I hope justice for Zahra doesn't get side tracked by politics etc.  This case has upset me like none other, probably because it is in my neck of the woods. 

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TnMuse
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« Reply #733 on: March 03, 2011, 01:09:25 AM »


I think LE's tactics of letting AB roam free are to further enrage EB so she will talk some more.  That is what worked in the past.   But IMO it is time to take AB out from under Mummy's thumb to see if HE crumbles when there's no one around him to call the shots.

Oh that's an interesting thought.  Do you think that the lawyer, and his limited contact with his mom, would buffer him enough to keep him from crumbling?  I hadn't thought about that, that and what being finally put into jail (when apparently he thinks he's scott-free) would do to his confidence.

Sometimes I wish I knew what their strategy was, because it can really get frustrating.

It would be nice to know their stategy, but I guess the most we can do is just hope that whatever it is...it works.  They really didn't do too bad with Elisa so far, I don't think they would have even part of a body without her input. 

I do believe limiting contact with his Mother and lawyer may help AB to forget what he is supposed to say or not supposed to say.  He was without Elisa just a few days when he got his story mixed up as to how he learned that Zahra was missing.

Elisa was with him when he made this 911 call:
http://www.wbtv.com/global/story.asp?s=13351620      (Transcript)
ADAM BAKER: The police were out here last night. They found a ransom note for my bosses daughter… um… I got up a little while ago… and it appears they took my daughter instead of my bosses daughter.

After Elisa was arrested and he's alone ....he tells the story this way in an interview: 
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/search-zahra-clare-baker-stepmom-custody-11848861
"yeah, I was...I came back from looking at a job and started to work in the yard and uh her Mother came out and....started screaming that Zahra was missing.
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Bearlyhere
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« Reply #734 on: March 03, 2011, 06:05:59 AM »

It looks cute - I hope they're able to do it, and that the kids enjoy it.  I wish she could have.


I keep trying to focus on the awesome playground she has access to now!

Awesome, Nana!

 an angelic monkey

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« Reply #735 on: March 05, 2011, 07:47:00 PM »

Sorry for the intrusion.....

PLEASE NOTE THE DONATION BUTTON ON OUR PAGE.  RED was hesitant to add a donation button but I talked him into it.  The donations would go to pay LEGAL fees Red is incurring due to this RightHaven suit.

For those who aren't aware, please go to this thread and read about RightHaven, or google RightHaven Suit:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9451.0


Red is desperate, any donation at all would be hugely appreciated.  You can write LEGAL FEES if you like in the Donation comment area.  The smallest out of court settlements have been between 5-10K and there's no guarantee that RightHaven will settle out of court.

Thanks!

To donate, click on the DONATE button at the upper right in the forum


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« Reply #736 on: March 06, 2011, 09:59:05 AM »

Sorry for the intrusion.....

PLEASE NOTE THE DONATION BUTTON ON OUR PAGE.  RED was hesitant to add a donation button but I talked him into it.  The donations would go to pay LEGAL fees Red is incurring due to this RightHaven suit.

For those who aren't aware, please go to this thread and read about RightHaven, or google RightHaven Suit:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9451.0


Red is desperate, any donation at all would be hugely appreciated.  You can write LEGAL FEES if you like in the Donation comment area.  The smallest out of court settlements have been between 5-10K and there's no guarantee that RightHaven will settle out of court.

Thanks!

To donate, click on the DONATE button at the upper right in the forum



Klaas, thanks for talking RED into letting us help.
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« Reply #737 on: March 07, 2011, 12:55:14 PM »

Elisa Baker's court appearance postponed
By: News 14 Carolina Staff

CATAWBA COUNTY, N.C. — A court appearance for Zahra Baker's stepmother Monday has been postponed. Elisa Baker was expected in court on charges of bigamy and obstructing justice.

<snipped>

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/top_stories/637689/elisa-baker-s-court-appearance-postponed
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« Reply #738 on: March 08, 2011, 05:21:44 AM »

When Justice arrives on Zahra's behalf, may she be fierce to Elisa and Adam!


Thank you for this CBB.

I just love that picture.

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SuzieQ
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Justice for Natalee


« Reply #739 on: March 08, 2011, 04:03:40 PM »

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14209132

Evidence in Zahra's murder case will take months to process, attorney says

NEWTON, NC (WBTV) - The woman indicted last month in the death and dismemberment of Zahra Baker was scheduled to appear in court Tuesday morning on obstruction of justice and bigamy charges, but the charges were continued to future dates.

Last month, Elisa Baker was arraigned on an indictment for second-degree murder in the death of her stepdaughter, Zahra, who was reported missing in October of 2010.

Defense attorney Scott Reilly was also appointed at that time by the court to represent Baker who is being held in jail.

 ::snipping2::
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