Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #38 12/18/10 - 12/24/10

[islandmonkey]

thanks TG, its saying about the same thing i was saying

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=9000.msg1277940#msg1277940
back to the "snatch and go" theory, to me that would mean there is prob an unknown S.O.among the
community that is part of the school/parents friend,teachers friend,
as ive never read anywhere, that the people there that day, were concerned about a stranger,
and im just guessing, everyone on the list had a reason  to be there
as LE would know about a person that had no reason to be there, maybe this is why
the school community is so tight lipped, maybe they are wondering and having
some suspicions now too even after 6 months

i agree, the teachers behaviour is odd, in fact the whole of the case is odd
you have a kid, that is not prone to wandering off, especially that day, yet
for some reason the LE did, ive often wondered where they got that idea
then you have a not yet named suspect, and her timeline is so tight, its hard to
see harming disposing, passing off, ect.in that timeline and that just makes it
more odd

I am of the opinion if it's an SO perp, than they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity, but have never been caught. IIRC some statistics show an offender will molest ~150-200 times before they are caught. Sadly some are never caught as children don't always tell, boys more so than girls as it's a homophobia type issue mixed in with feelings of what did I do wrong etc, threats to harm the child's family etc (according to my son's therapist and rape counselor-not me), these are sometimes very powerful motivators to keep a child quiet and they work quite well

Of course I am not stuck on one theory and mine are subject to change, more often in this case than any others I have ever followed.

O/T~I am considering going to the memorial in Mobile for Natalie and Jonathan Deblase....I am crazy?? I feel like we at SM and so many others love these kids so much more than their own family (not this particular case, but Zahra, Caylee and Jon and Natallie among hundreds of others) and I feel like someone should be there and show respect for the lives the children lived. I am afraid I would prolly cry like a baby the whole time though..

IslandMonkey,
You are such a sweetheart! I think it would be so nice of you to attend! I wish I was there and I would go with you. I am hoping to be there in the Spring!

Thank you......it's not even being sweet, I just am so mad at those damn animals and think the kids desrve ppl there that love them but I get so emotional about children and abuse I know I will be a basketcase, but I also know Mobile is just one hr away, all interstate and I think I can do it, it was a gut instinct as soon as I heard about the memorial being so close.

When you get down here look me up, I'll be the bum on the beach with a bball cap on and a beer in my hand   LOL, ok......that's actually everyone here so let me know

[hellokitty]

wow. what a world we live in.  In my community we celebrate volunteers for all kinds of endeavors.  We have to.  There is not enough money to pay people to do the things that need to be done.

Are taxpayers going to pony up the money to do the things that need to be done in schools?  All the free labor that was given that day to skyline school?

We might as well live as in the former Soviet Union with armed guards everywhere and concertina wire around everything and suspicion of every person that exists. 

That does not mean that I don't think we should be careful and prudent, but what kind of world is that where we can't even invite volunteers to help with things in the community without people thinking that it is code words . 

Hi HelloKitty,
I personally think that if the volunteers were coming to the school AFTER school, that was not a huge problem. If the volunteers were coming DURING school hours, with children present, that is a HUGE problem. I am very very lucky. My daughters middle school is completely locked. In order to get on school grounds you have to go through the office and then try to get passed the diligent ladies who work there. You cannot take your child off campus without signing your child out, in said office. In the mornings and afternoons there is a teacher or two who stand outside and watch the comings and goings of children being picked up and dropped off. I could NEVER EVER imagine that my daughters school would allow UNKNOWN volunteers to wander around campus while my child was there. Again, I am VERY lucky. I would have a fit if was any other way.

I think volunteers are fine if they have been screened and are NEVER allowed to be alone with a child. 

Was the work day at Skyline on a school day or a weekend?  I wouldn't think you could get many people on a work day.

Unfortunately, unless the person is you yourself, there is no way on earth to know who is an OK person or not.  All the background checks in the world won't catch a perv the first time. 

Do you never allow your children to go to someone else's home to play with a friend?  Too much Mom will make your kids rebel and do things on the sly.  It's an ugly world out there,

I always laugh when people say that there children would never whatever.  Keep too tight of a rein on them and they will go wild on you.  I have seen it with parents who think they have control

It's a hard world after all.

[islandmonkey]

since learning of TH sexting and supposed lifestyle, wonder if she was doing the deed
that 11/2 hr thats unaccounted for, i know she had the baby, but i really dont think
that would matter to her,she was sexting and kyron is missing
not a TH supporter just trying to fig why she looked so guilty in the first fam interview
i know she prob looks guilty BC she did something to kyron, just saying

Hi Cw618
Whatever Terri was doing during her unaccounted time, I think she had purchased something from the store to put Kiara to sleep.

That is good point, maybe some benadryl........since I don't think she left with Ky, I think she would have had to meet up with whomever did and Kiara being asleep would make sense in this scenario.

[no rose colored glasses]

wow. what a world we live in.  In my community we celebrate volunteers for all kinds of endeavors.  We have to.  There is not enough money to pay people to do the things that need to be done.

Are taxpayers going to pony up the money to do the things that need to be done in schools?  All the free labor that was given that day to skyline school?

We might as well live as in the former Soviet Union with armed guards everywhere and concertina wire around everything and suspicion of every person that exists. 

That does not mean that I don't think we should be careful and prudent, but what kind of world is that where we can't even invite volunteers to help with things in the community without people thinking that it is code words . 

I'm all for volunteers, we need them, and need more of them. I understand what some of the ladies are saying about volunteers being around the school kids and not really knowing anything about them. I am so glad that my two daughter's are grown, almost all the things we talk about and fears, I just didn't have any of them. Perhaps I was just stupid and naive, just some of this never entered my mind.

[islandmonkey]

The list that was sent around. Six months later, what are they looking for ?
What I read into it is : Here are the people who we think were there.
My mind says :
There is someone on this list who says they were not at the school that day, but we have a conflict as someone says they were.
.......
Didn't one of the kids ( I know which kid ) say that the substiture was there and the kid was corrected as the sub wasn't working that day ? Let's face it, they don't know who was there for sure. Not going to single out the sub, but any persons who were employed by the school, they could say, look at the pay records, I wasn't there. But they were. If the chaos worked for Terri as some say to do this when she was doing her premeditation, it works just as well for a perv / perp.
......
LE must have run this list against their databases and maybe they have come up with some hits for a prev child porn incident. Doesn't have to be in OR, could be in a previous place of residence.
There are alot of persons on that list.
Maybe that's what they wish they didn't know.     
..
As far as Terri and the LDT, we don't know what q's were asked tht she was deceptive on.
It would have made LE take a really hard look at her. I hope that it wasn't to the exclusion of all else. I am not convinced that she did it, but she could have.

.....
Say Ky and Terri are finished for the day, he says, I forgot to bring in the xxx, that he needed for later in the day, they go to the truck, they get in the truck to get it, he forgot it at home. He wants to go home to get it, she snaps and lays him out cold.  
..
For me,  I am trying to go down both paths. We don't have alot of facts and I don't like MCSD. I do not like that they gave him the sexting texts to Kaine and then he used them in his divorce. Yet, they won't release other things as it is part of an on going investigation. Never heard of this stuff before from LE.

Me too Kat~seems like your thinking the same way I am, she could have but I can't exclude other possibilities due to everything you just posted.

BBM~IIRC I believe TracyGirl thought this way back in the beginning (sorry if it wasn't you TG or it could have even been a diff case), but it seems someone had a dream of that exact scenario and Terri snaps, blamed him and killed him.

[Kat_Gram]

If I wanted to volunteer at any school here to work with the kids, like they have a program where retired ex teachers assist slow readers, I would have to have a background check thru our child abuse registry.

[Tracygirl]

wow. what a world we live in.  In my community we celebrate volunteers for all kinds of endeavors.  We have to.  There is not enough money to pay people to do the things that need to be done.

Are taxpayers going to pony up the money to do the things that need to be done in schools?  All the free labor that was given that day to skyline school?

We might as well live as in the former Soviet Union with armed guards everywhere and concertina wire around everything and suspicion of every person that exists. 

That does not mean that I don't think we should be careful and prudent, but what kind of world is that where we can't even invite volunteers to help with things in the community without people thinking that it is code words . 

Hi HelloKitty,
I personally think that if the volunteers were coming to the school AFTER school, that was not a huge problem. If the volunteers were coming DURING school hours, with children present, that is a HUGE problem. I am very very lucky. My daughters middle school is completely locked. In order to get on school grounds you have to go through the office and then try to get passed the diligent ladies who work there. You cannot take your child off campus without signing your child out, in said office. In the mornings and afternoons there is a teacher or two who stand outside and watch the comings and goings of children being picked up and dropped off. I could NEVER EVER imagine that my daughters school would allow UNKNOWN volunteers to wander around campus while my child was there. Again, I am VERY lucky. I would have a fit if was any other way.

When this was first talked about I didn't either, then I realized it would give a person ample opportunity to scope out the school and make them familiar with the school if they were not already. They would know where the exits are, the bathrooms, off limit areas...then there is the consideration to private information of the children that can be accessed. All of that without the eyes of really anyone watching you. It is concerning to me.

[cw618]

islandmonkey
 am of the opinion if it's an SO perp, than they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity, but have never been caught. IIRC some statistics show an offender will molest ~150-200 times before they are caught

that's what i meant, just didnt say it as concise as you
thanks

[islandmonkey]

wow. what a world we live in.  In my community we celebrate volunteers for all kinds of endeavors.  We have to.  There is not enough money to pay people to do the things that need to be done.

Are taxpayers going to pony up the money to do the things that need to be done in schools?  All the free labor that was given that day to skyline school?

We might as well live as in the former Soviet Union with armed guards everywhere and concertina wire around everything and suspicion of every person that exists. 

That does not mean that I don't think we should be careful and prudent, but what kind of world is that where we can't even invite volunteers to help with things in the community without people thinking that it is code words . 

Hi HelloKitty,
I personally think that if the volunteers were coming to the school AFTER school, that was not a huge problem. If the volunteers were coming DURING school hours, with children present, that is a HUGE problem. I am very very lucky. My daughters middle school is completely locked. In order to get on school grounds you have to go through the office and then try to get passed the diligent ladies who work there. You cannot take your child off campus without signing your child out, in said office. In the mornings and afternoons there is a teacher or two who stand outside and watch the comings and goings of children being picked up and dropped off. I could NEVER EVER imagine that my daughters school would allow UNKNOWN volunteers to wander around campus while my child was there. Again, I am VERY lucky. I would have a fit if was any other way.

When this was first talked about I didn't either, then I realized it would give a person ample opportunity to scope out the school and make them familiar with the school if they were not already. They would know where the exits are, the bathrooms, off limit areas...then there is the consideration to private information of the children that can be accessed. All of that without the eyes of really anyone watching you. It is concerning to me.

TG~did you read Kat_Gram's detailed post on the last page......was it you or someone else that had a dream about Kyron forgetting something at home, Terri taking him back to the house and snapping? Maybe I am crazy, but I know someone posted that way back.

[islandmonkey]

islandmonkey
 am of the opinion if it's an SO perp, than they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity, but have never been caught. IIRC some statistics show an offender will molest ~150-200 times before they are caught

that's what i meant, just didnt say it as concise as you
thanks

LOL~I am rarely consise but good to know someone thinks I am. That has always bothered me since I know too many SO's aren't caught, and then it is incumbent on THEM to register, grrrrr. Of course if they are found, they get a slap on the wrist most of the time, but we have 100,000+ missing SO's already, obviously the system is NOT working IMO

[Tracygirl]

wow. what a world we live in.  In my community we celebrate volunteers for all kinds of endeavors.  We have to.  There is not enough money to pay people to do the things that need to be done.

Are taxpayers going to pony up the money to do the things that need to be done in schools?  All the free labor that was given that day to skyline school?

We might as well live as in the former Soviet Union with armed guards everywhere and concertina wire around everything and suspicion of every person that exists. 

That does not mean that I don't think we should be careful and prudent, but what kind of world is that where we can't even invite volunteers to help with things in the community without people thinking that it is code words . 

Hi HelloKitty,
I personally think that if the volunteers were coming to the school AFTER school, that was not a huge problem. If the volunteers were coming DURING school hours, with children present, that is a HUGE problem. I am very very lucky. My daughters middle school is completely locked. In order to get on school grounds you have to go through the office and then try to get passed the diligent ladies who work there. You cannot take your child off campus without signing your child out, in said office. In the mornings and afternoons there is a teacher or two who stand outside and watch the comings and goings of children being picked up and dropped off. I could NEVER EVER imagine that my daughters school would allow UNKNOWN volunteers to wander around campus while my child was there. Again, I am VERY lucky. I would have a fit if was any other way.

When this was first talked about I didn't either, then I realized it would give a person ample opportunity to scope out the school and make them familiar with the school if they were not already. They would know where the exits are, the bathrooms, off limit areas...then there is the consideration to private information of the children that can be accessed. All of that without the eyes of really anyone watching you. It is concerning to me.

TG~did you read Kat_Gram's detailed post on the last page......was it you or someone else that had a dream about Kyron forgetting something at home, Terri taking him back to the house and snapping? Maybe I am crazy, but I know someone posted that way back.

Yep I did have a dream like that. Kyron had forgotten his lunch, terri got upset and killed him in their kitchen by strangling him ...It was an awful dream! I also had another one that Kyron walked into a room I was in and me and a bunch of other woman (my fellow monkeys?) were sitting there talking. I felt someone walk up to me and I see Kyron standing next to me. I say to him, "Kyron where have you been we all have been looking for you" He said he was fine....That one I woke up crying.

[Tracygirl]

since learning of TH sexting and supposed lifestyle, wonder if she was doing the deed
that 11/2 hr thats unaccounted for, i know she had the baby, but i really dont think
that would matter to her,she was sexting and kyron is missing
not a TH supporter just trying to fig why she looked so guilty in the first fam interview
i know she prob looks guilty BC she did something to kyron, just saying

Hi Cw618
Whatever Terri was doing during her unaccounted time, I think she had purchased something from the store to put Kiara to sleep.

That is good point, maybe some benadryl........since I don't think she left with Ky, I think she would have had to meet up with whomever did and Kiara being asleep would make sense in this scenario.

that is a good thought. maybe she was meeting someone and wanted the baby either asleep or quiet. I really do think it is possible she was having an affair.

[sebastian]

wow. what a world we live in.  In my community we celebrate volunteers for all kinds of endeavors.  We have to.  There is not enough money to pay people to do the things that need to be done.

Are taxpayers going to pony up the money to do the things that need to be done in schools?  All the free labor that was given that day to skyline school?

We might as well live as in the former Soviet Union with armed guards everywhere and concertina wire around everything and suspicion of every person that exists. 

That does not mean that I don't think we should be careful and prudent, but what kind of world is that where we can't even invite volunteers to help with things in the community without people thinking that it is code words . 

Hi HelloKitty,
I personally think that if the volunteers were coming to the school AFTER school, that was not a huge problem. If the volunteers were coming DURING school hours, with children present, that is a HUGE problem. I am very very lucky. My daughters middle school is completely locked. In order to get on school grounds you have to go through the office and then try to get passed the diligent ladies who work there. You cannot take your child off campus without signing your child out, in said office. In the mornings and afternoons there is a teacher or two who stand outside and watch the comings and goings of children being picked up and dropped off. I could NEVER EVER imagine that my daughters school would allow UNKNOWN volunteers to wander around campus while my child was there. Again, I am VERY lucky. I would have a fit if was any other way.

I think volunteers are fine if they have been screened and are NEVER allowed to be alone with a child. 

Was the work day at Skyline on a school day or a weekend?  I wouldn't think you could get many people on a work day.

Unfortunately, unless the person is you yourself, there is no way on earth to know who is an OK person or not.  All the background checks in the world won't catch a perv the first time. 

Do you never allow your children to go to someone else's home to play with a friend?  Too much Mom will make your kids rebel and do things on the sly.  It's an ugly world out there,

I always laugh when people say that there children would never whatever.  Keep too tight of a rein on them and they will go wild on you.  I have seen it with parents who think they have control

It's a hard world after all.

I think so much of our fears are based on our experiences. I started attending vigils for Amber Dubois and got very close to her mother. I saw up close and personal what can happen. Has that made me paranoid? HECK YES! With regards to my child going to others homes, sometimes we cannot be diligent enough. My daughter plays at a friends house who lives on a very small street with a few houses. I have met both of her parents and they seem like very nice people. A few days ago I was looking up sex offenders in the Portland area and my daughter asked me to show her the sex offenders in our area again as it has been a couple of months since we have looked. Low and behold my daughter about flipped her lid. One of the sex offenders on the list, lives on the small little road where she plays. My daughter told me that he walked past them and winked and smiled and had 2 CHILDREN

[Tracygirl]

islandmonkey
 am of the opinion if it's an SO perp, than they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity, but have never been caught. IIRC some statistics show an offender will molest ~150-200 times before they are caught

that's what i meant, just didnt say it as concise as you
thanks

LOL~I am rarely consise but good to know someone thinks I am. That has always bothered me since I know too many SO's aren't caught, and then it is incumbent on THEM to register, grrrrr. Of course if they are found, they get a slap on the wrist most of the time, but we have 100,000+ missing SO's already, obviously the system is NOT working IMO

I think this is more then possible. I am not sure if it holds true, but the list of people they put out, could it be they are trying to find evidence on someone in order to request a search order? I would think LE cannot just go to court and ask to search everyones computer or house that was there that day. They  would need a reason other then the person being there that day? Or perhaps that would be the reason? ugh, I am not making sense I think. My thoughts are coming together. 

[sebastian]

with him. Then my daughter looked up his address on google and saw that he has a kiddie pool in his backyard. We will be calling LE first thing on Monday. You have to inform your children and be as diligent as you can without making them neurotic messes. It is a very hard balancing act.

[Kat_Gram]

I am also amazed at how much child porn and pedo rings are out there.
Our volunterr bureau, we knew the lady who had to run the background checks, she was also amazed at how many ex offenders knew that the check would be done, yet they would still try it. Apply to do good for a good program for kids. Always want to be close to the cookie jar. What an ugly world we live in.
...
Many of the cases like Tori Stafford, Sandra Cantu, Elizabeth Smart  have come to such strange and starling criminal cases, so until they arrest someone,I want to keep an open mind. And try to not come to any conclusions. Most of the things we think we know about Terri have come from Kaine. He is trying to get a divorce from her, keep Kiara, protect his assets, find Kyron, work, look after Kiara, how emotionally balanced could anyone be in the circumstances he is in ? Same for Desiree, must be in emotional hell most of the time.
..
I am not a Terri supporter. I do go the the FB pages every few weeks or so, but don't post or like anything the FB peeps do in htis case.

[Tracygirl]

OMG Sebastian that is scary!

Why do they allow these freaks in the same area's our children are in! Put them on an island and let them fend for themselves!

[cw618]

islandmonkey
 am of the opinion if it's an SO perp, than they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity, but have never been caught. IIRC some statistics show an offender will molest ~150-200 times before they are caught

that's what i meant, just didnt say it as concise as you
thanks

LOL~I am rarely consise but good to know someone thinks I am. That has always bothered me since I know too many SO's aren't caught, and then it is incumbent on THEM to register, grrrrr. Of course if they are found, they get a slap on the wrist most of the time, but we have 100,000+ missing SO's already, obviously the system is NOT working IMO

I think this is more then possible. I am not sure if it holds true, but the list of people they put out, could it be they are trying to find evidence on someone in order to request a search order? I would think LE cannot just go to court and ask to search everyones computer or house that was there that day. They  would need a reason other then the person being there that day? Or perhaps that would be the reason? ugh, I am not making sense I think. My thoughts are coming together. 

island i was just about to ask if you meant, friends fam may be suspicious and aren't saying anything
islandmonkey statement
they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity

TG thats a great idea, very well could be,and LE is maybe trying to be coyslick and not alert who?

[Kat_Gram]

Kiddie pool ? A kid magnet. He's got his own cookie jar. His kids friends aren't safe.
...........
 

[islandmonkey]

islandmonkey
 am of the opinion if it's an SO perp, than they are actually known to the school or families in some capacity, but have never been caught. IIRC some statistics show an offender will molest ~150-200 times before they are caught

that's what i meant, just didnt say it as concise as you
thanks

LOL~I am rarely consise but good to know someone thinks I am. That has always bothered me since I know too many SO's aren't caught, and then it is incumbent on THEM to register, grrrrr. Of course if they are found, they get a slap on the wrist most of the time, but we have 100,000+ missing SO's already, obviously the system is NOT working IMO

I think this is more then possible. I am not sure if it holds true, but the list of people they put out, could it be they are trying to find evidence on someone in order to request a search order? I would think LE cannot just go to court and ask to search everyones computer or house that was there that day. They  would need a reason other then the person being there that day? Or perhaps that would be the reason? ugh, I am not making sense I think. My thoughts are coming together. 

WRT the SO's near you and checking them with your daughter, I completely understand but they have to know sadly. We had one move to the Island and the school sent out his flyer and we are such a tight knit community he ended up getting the he77 out ASAP. I guess he didn't appreciate the fact that every day a different group of parents walked his street with a camera, and handed out the flyers to anyone and everyone (even though they obviously had them from the previsou groups and the school), and we had a little group that would watch him from their homes and if he so much as got in the car and pulled out, we knew the time and when he arrived back. Plus, the toll bridge which is the only way on take your photo every time you arrive and leave and it's time stamped so he was not only being watched by the Island big brother, but the community in whole. Turned out he had child porn on his puter and is now scheduled to go to court next month, but he's gone from here. Plus, I looked up the owners of the residence and emailed them his record and flyer, they were mortified and wanted to kick him out then and there, but had no cause, they did promise to never renew the lease, and do background checks from now on, but he moved inland even though he still had his addy here (typical SO), but he is a gone and hopefully after his trial he'll be gone for good. We didn't really harass him, but if we did make it extremely uncomfortable and if we had harrassed him, LE wouldn't care as they pulled him every time he didn't make a complete stop at a stop sign or for any reason possible......I told you they are bored to tears here, but also despise pedo's.

Very possible about the SW, although this case has my mind so discombobulated I doubt I even make sense anymore.