Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #38 12/18/10 - 12/24/10

[Tamikosmom]

Thanks Janet, is there anything in an article about this cool electric project? 

Hi no rose.

An exerpt from on of the articles I posted mentions the electric project.  Also ... the time frame is revealed.

Janet

+++++++

Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.'

I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

[Tamikosmom]

The time frame revealed by Tanner ... implies that Kyron went missing immediately following Terri's departure.

Janet

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks Janet 

[islandmonkey]

A few months back, there was a young boy by a man (pedophile?) in a park that is located fairly close to the Skyline area.  That boy gave LE a description of the man and a picture was drawn of the man...very detailed.  IMO, it looked stunningly like the GK...even to the little hairs sticking up on top of the heard.  A couple of SM posters thought it didn't look at all like the GK.  IMO, the likeness was stunning.  Anyone who's curious...should look that up and see the two pictures. 

I remember that, it totally looked like him to me..when I saw the sketch and the GK my eyes were like thise freaky how much they looked alike IMOO

[hellokitty]

 

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

1.  Why would the "sub" ask where Kyron is when he never made it to the classroom?  Obviously, Kyron was not in her group and no concern of her's as she said, "All right, I'm leaving".

2.  If Terri left Kyron at 8:45 ,and she would know because the bell is ringing, why was Tanner going down some stairs when his classroom is upstairs?

3.  Why did
Tanner not notice that Kyron was gone all day when hie desk is right next to Kyron's?

[Tracygirl]

Where is it stated that Tanner saw Kyron at 9:00 anywhere?  I have not seen that anywhere. 

As far as the teacher saying her statement to Tanner, if she in fact did, a doctor's appt is private.

She may have said what she did to deflect Tanner.  It's none of his business where Kyron is.  It's none of the "sub's" business where Kyron is.  No one outside of the family and the teacher has the right to know that Kyron was going to the doctor.  Maybe the "sub" was a busybody as well.

And it could be , in light of what we saw was the grandmother of Tanner's behavior, the teacher knew that the grandmother was a "flake" and Tanner would be telling her the info about the doctor's appt.

As a neighbor, Grandma could get on the phone with the Horman's and question them about the dr's appt, something that is none of anyone's business.  The teacher could be called on the carpet for telling anyone that Kyron was going to the doctor. 

HK would you mind please posting the child privacy law that states a teacher cannot divulge if a child is at a doctors appointment and not just constricted from saying what the reason is for the appointment. I think that maybe useful for me because I am under the impression they cannot say why the child is being taken to the doctors. I do believe though the teacher had said this to the sub, not to Tanner and Tanner over heard it being said.
Also, I have found several accounts that it was about 9 that Tanner saw Karon, or Karon was last seen at 9. Perhaps you can find it as well. 
Terri and Karon did not leave the school together. Karon was taken or lured by someone for whatever the reason. Did Terri set it up? Was it a random abduction? Those are the questions left to be answered in my opinion.
 

[Tamikosmom]

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

<snipped>

I respectfully disagree.  I contend IF Tanner is revealing the truth ... Kyron went missing between 8:45 AM went Terri departed and 9:00 AM went class started.

Janet

+++++++


Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.'

I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

[/quote]

[Tracygirl]

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

1.  Why would the "sub" ask where Kyron is when he never made it to the classroom?  Obviously, Kyron was not in her group and no concern of her's as she said, "All right, I'm leaving".

2.  If Terri left Kyron at 8:45 ,and she would know because the bell is ringing, why was Tanner going down some stairs when his classroom is upstairs?

3.  Why did
Tanner not notice that Kyron was gone all day when hie desk is right next to Kyron's?

I think Tanner did noticed but you didn't believe it, or did I misunderstand you?

[no rose colored glasses]

Providing if Tanner has his facts straight, and I have no idea if he does or not, but if the teacher said that Kyron was either getting a drink or in the bathroom, wouldn't other kids be wondering why he was doing this all day? If a teacher isn't suppose to tell a kid that another kid has a doctor's appt, couldn't she just say he went home?

[islandmonkey]

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/

Essay Kaye says:
December 19, 2010 at 10:28 am
Every time I start exploring the idea that TH was not involved in Kyron’s disappearance, I come back to the fact that she has not successfully fought for custody of her daughter, or at least some sort of visitation. My daughter is almost the same age as Kitty and children at this age develop so fast in these early years. They become very conversational and their little personalities really start to emerge — I would not miss one day of this magic time! And if my daughter had been taken away because I had been falsely accused, you bet I’d retain the best attorney available to do battle and clear my name so I could get my child back as soon as possible. But this isn’t what TH did: instead she hired a high-powered attorney who obviously advised her to avoid any litigation that will open the door to questioning and/or discovery that might be incriminating even though this strategy prevents her from seeking any adjustment of the restraining order. MOO – but it is inescapable therefore that whatever TH is seeking to avoid disclosure of must be very very serious.

TH, in my opinion has not done anything to help investigators in this case. For that, among the other things we have learned about her activities and behavior, she is second on my list POI in this case in case that is not clear by now. I also believe she faces possible criminal charges in a mfh plot against her husband. How strong that case is, I have my doubts.

That said, they flat out told her she failed a polygraph. That is a rookie error, imo.
The second that exchange ocurred, to be honest, pretty much invalidates future tests unless they are specific as to what they have quantified “deceptive” responses.

Not to mention, we are assuming that is a true statement in the first place, when LE is under no obligation to be truthful in an interview.

I think people are forgetting she consented to have her home searched, cars, computers, etc.

Don’t come back at me with it is Kaine’s house, because in the eyes of the law in a criminal matter, it is absolutely both of their property, as is everything else.

Desiree tells her she is coming to the house, and Terri’s response was “You are”?

Does that sound like the woman who has thought of everything here?

All this occurs, while a deputy is in the home almost 20 hours per day, while conversations are apparently taking place that she was told that she was considered a defacto suspect.

I will be 100% honest. If I were ever in that position (God forbid), I would have hired an attorney following the polly, period. Had TH hired Houze prior to June 26th, I have very serious doubts that “sting” would have occurred in the first place.

Point is, she hired counsel after she absolutely knew LE participated in an attempt to set her up, and advised her husband of same. In her mind, I have no doubt she has been advised that pursuing visitation of Kiara will result in charges being brought against her, and she will have no chance of seeing her anyway, so then what choice did she have?

Having the benefit of speaking to some insiders in this case, I have to believe that if Th has information that would help locate Kyron, her atty would have proffered and leveraged same appropriately.

That said, if she is involved, she has told him she is not, and nothing in their own investigations has proved otherwise, imo.

So my long-winded way of winning the Captain Obvious award:

She is either involved and waiting for the boom to be lowered.

Or

She is guilty of being a cruel step-mom who had it out for a 7 year old, with a broken moral compass, and may have wanted to off Kaine for as yet unknown reasons, and she has no idea what happened to Kyron.
 
B

I have stated over and over that I would have retained an atty if everyone in the family was pointing fingers at me and I knew I was innocent, but Blink does out it better than I ever could as I would have had an atty on the phone ASAP after they tried to set me up....I never thought about that part 
Also in the beginning Staton stated she was cooperating, and IIRC the only ones who said she wasn't were KH, DY & TY....didn't seh take 2 polys without any problem and did consent to all the searches, so I can also see walking out of another one if they were using typical interrogation techniques of "we know you are lying and we know you do it and have a witness etc etc etc".....AGAIN I am NOT saying she is not involved, but I can see her behavoir and reactions 2 differnt ways, one she is guilty as he77 and her body language was so weird, OR she isn't involved and felt guilty for being the last one the family points fingers to as having been with Kyron, to me that first presser she looked so odd but looking back I can see it as "Oh my Lord, they (KH, DY, TY) think I did it and fearful....

LOve the captain obvious.......but, I am more than frustrated we are still at this point but also feel somewhat better that in the last PC from Staton he stated that they had to look at all options including SO's (paraphrasing). God speed lil man

[islandmonkey]

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

1.  Why would the "sub" ask where Kyron is when he never made it to the classroom?  Obviously, Kyron was not in her group and no concern of her's as she said, "All right, I'm leaving".

2.  If Terri left Kyron at 8:45 ,and she would know because the bell is ringing, why was Tanner going down some stairs when his classroom is upstairs?

3.  Why did
Tanner not notice that Kyron was gone all day when hie desk is right next to Kyron's?

In the post I made last night Staton stated Kyron was seen at 9am:

9 a.m. Kyron is reportedly seen by a student near the south entrance of the school, according to Sheriff Dan Staton, who says that was the last time the boy was seen. Multnomah County authorities later backtrack on that statement.



 Brandi~I finally found where I snatched the timline. It was WS, I knew I wouldn't go to OL as they want nothing posted of any length so I started looking around and found it there, granted they may have snagged it from OL, I just don't recall a link......but it was about 2am and my eyes were crossing.

[Tracygirl]

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

<snipped>

I respectfully disagree.  I contend IF Tanner is revealing the truth ... Kyron went missing between 8:45 AM went Terri departed and 9:00 AM went class started.Janet

+++++++


Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.'

I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

[/quote]

Yes, I think this makes the most sense when you put everything together.
 
I dont' know why the sub/helper person says, "oh no there are only 5 where is Kyron" perhaps she is checking the list of who was supposed to be a certain group and noticed Kyron was not there. I think knowing how the kids were divided and who divided them or if the kids were responsible for entering a group and an adult didn't physically place a child. In other words, were the kids to look at the list and find his/her group and not an adult calling out names for their group. I have seen it done both ways so I am not sure which. So perhaps the sub/helper at that time noticed she toured the fair with only 5 and not 6 and then at that time asked where is Kyron? Perhaps the teacher again misunderstood what the sub/helper was asking or stating because she saw Kyron earlier in the day and said, well maybe he stopped to get a drink or go to the bathroom. And when she figure out what exactly the sub/helper said, thought well maybe he went to the doctor with terri. To me that all makes sense.

[islandmonkey]

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

<snipped>

I respectfully disagree.  I contend IF Tanner is revealing the truth ... Kyron went missing between 8:45 AM went Terri departed and 9:00 AM went class started.

Janet

+++++++


Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.'

I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

[/quote]

Agreed, I found this also:

WHEN/WHERE LAST SEEN:
“His stepmother said she last saw him at 8:45 a.m. Friday. She watched him walk toward his classroom after the pair toured the school's science fair.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...on_horman.html

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

TP, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project. http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

Shelby said that Porter saw Kyron in her classroom with his stepmom before 8:45 a.m. and another instructor reported seeing him in another classroom at some point. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...the_day_k.html

Kyron was last seen by someone inside the school around 9 am (LE won’t comment on who saw him)
(According to Press Conf. 6/7)
Another reporter asks for further clarification of earlier time line statements by LE
"I can't answer your question completely, but I can say the last point at which Kyron was seen was about 9:00 am, but uh . . ." (Then the reporter cuts him off.)
Later on, a reporter asks if the last sighting was by the stepmother or someone else: "I'm not able to give those details."

from www . youtube .com /watch?v=hi4P3vGDow8
Transcribed: "He was seen near his classroom, and the last point was down at the south entrance door of the school."


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106874

[Tracygirl]

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

1.  Why would the "sub" ask where Kyron is when he never made it to the classroom?  Obviously, Kyron was not in her group and no concern of her's as she said, "All right, I'm leaving".

2.  If Terri left Kyron at 8:45 ,and she would know because the bell is ringing, why was Tanner going down some stairs when his classroom is upstairs?

3.  Why did
Tanner not notice that Kyron was gone all day when hie desk is right next to Kyron's?

In the post I made last night Staton stated Kyron was seen at 9am:

9 a.m. Kyron is reportedly seen by a student near the south entrance of the school, according to Sheriff Dan Staton, who says that was the last time the boy was seen. Multnomah County authorities later backtrack on that statement.
 Brandi~I finally found where I snatched the timline. It was WS, I knew I wouldn't go to OL as they want nothing posted of any length so I started looking around and found it there, granted they may have snagged it from OL, I just don't recall a link......but it was about 2am and my eyes were crossing.

Where is the south entrance to the school? Which door is it?
I wonder if perhaps LE retracted that statement for the safety of the student who saw Kyron. Who is to say the person who took kyron didn't also see the child who saw Kyron at the south entrance.

[islandmonkey]

Where is it stated that Tanner saw Kyron at 9:00 anywhere?  I have not seen that anywhere. 

As far as the teacher saying her statement to Tanner, if she in fact did, a doctor's appt is private.

She may have said what she did to deflect Tanner.  It's none of his business where Kyron is.  It's none of the "sub's" business where Kyron is.  No one outside of the family and the teacher has the right to know that Kyron was going to the doctor.  Maybe the "sub" was a busybody as well.

And it could be , in light of what we saw was the grandmother of Tanner's behavior, the teacher knew that the grandmother was a "flake" and Tanner would be telling her the info about the doctor's appt.

As a neighbor, Grandma could get on the phone with the Horman's and question them about the dr's appt, something that is none of anyone's business.  The teacher could be called on the carpet for telling anyone that Kyron was going to the doctor. 

HK would you mind please posting the child privacy law that states a teacher cannot divulge if a child is at a doctors appointment and not just constricted from saying what the reason is for the appointment. I think that maybe useful for me because I am under the impression they cannot say why the child is being taken to the doctors. I do believe though the teacher had said this to the sub, not to Tanner and Tanner over heard it being said.
Also, I have found several accounts that it was about 9 that Tanner saw Karon, or Karon was last seen at 9. Perhaps you can find it as well. 
Terri and Karon did not leave the school together. Karon was taken or lured by someone for whatever the reason. Did Terri set it up? Was it a random abduction? Those are the questions left to be answered in my opinion.
 

  I have never heard that a teacher can't divulge a child has a Dr appt., if so every school my kids have been in has violated this law. To go further, I do know how strict HIPPA laws can be, but during my divorce I was able to get every freaking record on my husband since his mental/health issues were part of the courts concern about custody, of course I never expected them to be 2 ft high, and I got every RX he had been prescribed from Dr's, ER's, diagnosis ......it was unbelievable how much info I rec'd, I even learned he admitted to a counselor that he sometimes wanted to walk into the middle of traffic and end it all Kinda helped nail the coffin shut along with everything else we had, so I bet KH or even DY could get the info if she filed for custody.

[Tamikosmom]

I don't feel that there is any timeframe indicated.

<snipped>

I respectfully disagree.  I contend IF Tanner is revealing the truth ... Kyron went missing between 8:45 AM went Terri departed and 9:00 AM went class started.

Janet

+++++++


Classmate: 'I Hope My Best Friend Comes Back'
Kyron Horman Last Seen Friday Morning
POSTED: 7:06 am PDT June 9, 2010
UPDATED: 8:24 am PDT June 9, 2010

Multnomah County Sheriff's Capt. Jason Gates said Kyron's stepmother brought him to school for a school science fair and last saw Kyron near his classroom at about 8:45 a.m.

Tanner Pumala, Kyron's classmate, said he last saw his friend at about the same time when Kyron told him he was headed to look at another student's science project.

"He walked by the hallway and I'm like, 'Hi, Kyron,' and he's like, 'Hi. I'm going to go see this cool one. It's electric.'

I'm like, 'Alright, bye.' And that's the last time I saw him," Tanner said. "He never did make it back to class."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

When Tanner saw Kyron in the hallway immediately following Terri's departure ... was he headed in the direction of the South Entrance in his quest to see an "electric" display.

Could it be that Kyron had been deceived in regards to an "electric" display.  In other words ... his abductor ... known or unknown to him ... was waiting by the South Entrance?

Janet

++++++

Search for Missing Kyron Horman Now a Criminal Investigation
Jun 13, 2010

Other witnesses say they saw Kyron around 8:45 a.m. in the hallway near his classroom door but also near the south entrance of the school. It is unknown if the 7-year-old was in the company of anyone.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5484030/search_for_missing_kyron_horman_now.html

[pdh3]

Well, he never made it back to the classroom. No one saw him in the hall on the way to.
Yet in Terri's emails, she had someone tell her that Kyron was with a man chaperone and a couple of little girls. Her words.
..
They have spent months and countless hours trying to figure this out, the GJ has been meeting, nothing yet. The list they just recently sent out, that tells me they have some conflicts in their  information and LE isn't sure who was there and who wasn't there that day. Six months later it isn't going to get much clearer.
..
Ms. Porter told some kids Kyron was in the bathroom or at the water fountain. If she thought he was at the doctor, why didn't she say so ? I have always had a problem with her. Don't think she is in any way involved, but she didn't seem on the ball did she ? She didn't really know where he was and do anything proactive to find out. Just marked him absent.
That school seemed rather complacent. Not only for security and background checks for volunteers, for RSO's and SO's but for the safety of the kids. Near a big rural area, forest, big pond close to the school, lots of trouble if a kid wanders off. 
..
Terri could have done this, but I can't see this going to trial. Can't see any charges being laid. I can see her lawyer filing a suit against the MCSD, the ones who gave the sexts to Kaine.
   

Because of privacy laws, in most states, the teacher cannot tell anyone that a student has a DR. appointment. The student or parent can, but not anyone else.

[hellokitty]

 

Hasn't LE repeatedly said that TH was the last known person to see Kyron?  That has been said over and over and over again.

That knocks the 9 AM time out.

I don't think teacher's are allowed to reveal the reason's for a child's absence.

If you were bringing your child to the doctor to have your child tested for an STD, for example, because of some circumstances, would you want the teacher to announce to anyone that your child was going to the doctor?  Would you want to answer nosy questions asking why you are bringing your child to the doctor?  Or maybe you are bringing your child to the doctor for any number of reasons.  It is no one's business , is it? 

I would not want a teacher telling anyone the reason for my child's absence.  Maybe my child is absent because I am at the hospital because my husband beat me up.  Do you see the issues here?

The teacher may have said the first thing that pooped into her mind, if it was said at all.

[Kat_Gram]

The kids were to assemble in small groups, led by a sub or a volunteeer or a person.
That means that there was more than one that was taking the kids around.
Someone was expecting for Kyron to be in their group.
Ms. Porter doesn't seem concerned, makes a remark about the bathroom or water fountain.
Isn't concerned at 10am marks him absent.
Isn't concerned at 1 pm when he is still not there for the Talent Contest.
Isn't concerned at the end of the day, goes home.
...
Even within this small group of kids and a teacher and assorted " helpers " the story is different.
...
Tanner , I hope along with this small circle would have been interviewed first, before the school realized they had a problem and went into CYA against a lawsuit mode.   

[pdh3]

Where is it stated that Tanner saw Kyron at 9:00 anywhere?  I have not seen that anywhere. 

As far as the teacher saying her statement to Tanner, if she in fact did, a doctor's appt is private.

She may have said what she did to deflect Tanner.  It's none of his business where Kyron is.  It's none of the "sub's" business where Kyron is.  No one outside of the family and the teacher has the right to know that Kyron was going to the doctor.  Maybe the "sub" was a busybody as well.

And it could be , in light of what we saw was the grandmother of Tanner's behavior, the teacher knew that the grandmother was a "flake" and Tanner would be telling her the info about the doctor's appt.

As a neighbor, Grandma could get on the phone with the Horman's and question them about the dr's appt, something that is none of anyone's business.  The teacher could be called on the carpet for telling anyone that Kyron was going to the doctor. 

HK would you mind please posting the child privacy law that states a teacher cannot divulge if a child is at a doctors appointment and not just constricted from saying what the reason is for the appointment. I think that maybe useful for me because I am under the impression they cannot say why the child is being taken to the doctors. I do believe though the teacher had said this to the sub, not to Tanner and Tanner over heard it being said.
Also, I have found several accounts that it was about 9 that Tanner saw Karon, or Karon was last seen at 9. Perhaps you can find it as well. 
Terri and Karon did not leave the school together. Karon was taken or lured by someone for whatever the reason. Did Terri set it up? Was it a random abduction? Those are the questions left to be answered in my opinion.
 

  I have never heard that a teacher can't divulge a child has a Dr appt., if so every school my kids have been in has violated this law. To go further, I do know how strict HIPPA laws can be, but during my divorce I was able to get every freaking record on my husband since his mental/health issues were part of the courts concern about custody, of course I never expected them to be 2 ft high, and I got every RX he had been prescribed from Dr's, ER's, diagnosis ......it was unbelievable how much info I rec'd, I even learned he admitted to a counselor that he sometimes wanted to walk into the middle of traffic and end it all Kinda helped nail the coffin shut along with everything else we had, so I bet KH or even DY could get the info if she filed for custody.

It's up to a DR to fight a subpoena for medical records. Some DRs will refuse and some comply depending on the issues at stake. However, a subpoena for a legal action is a much different thing than a teacher telling a child's classmates that he has a DR appointment. It's not allowed. A Dr.'s office can't even confirm that someone is a patient to anyone else except the insurance co. for any patient over the age of 14, and under 14 only to the parent or legal guardian.