Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #38 12/18/10 - 12/24/10

[Tracygirl]

I do believe LE was saying she was the last known person to have been with Kyron and isn't that true? Even if she was not the one that took him?
I am not trying to ruffle any feathers but the information released in the beginning of the case may not be what has ended up as truth.

Deputies said Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron on June 4

Deputies have also said in September that things they once thought to be true is not what they believe now, or something to that affect. We don't know if they still believe this. Desiree has even stated that Terri had to have help.

[Tracygirl]

deputies say TH last person with Kyron

http://www.kptv.com/news/24226985/detail.html

There are more and more of these. 

Thanks.

However ... I was looking for something that was not so vague ... an actual quote from an official within the investigation ... an official quote that states that Terri was the last known person with Kyron.

Kitty ... potential witnesses were requested by LE and Kaine not to talk to the media.  I am inclined to believe that investigators may be aware of witnesses like Tanner who saw Kyron following Terri's departure from the building because I cannot find an official quote that states that Terri was the last person to have been seen with Kyron.

Think about it.  Terri is not even a person of interest.

Nevertheless ... this does not imply that I do not believe that Terri could possibly be a participant in the events encompassing Kyron's disappearance.

Janet

But she is - and she doesn't even need to be named as such.  Seriously.

LE has not named her a suspect, it is assumed she is a suspect. Is she still a suspect in the same degree they once may have thought her to be? We don't know.

[Tracygirl]

Another innocent and the most curious for me was when he and terri walked past the press and pretty much ignored their questions as they left the gym. That stood out to me. I am not sure if I have ever seen a reaction like that from parents, it was strange.
 

 

I cannot comprehend why either Kaine or Terri were "hitting the gym" in this period in time.

Janet

+++++++


Former detective: Parents’ silence not unheard of but not the norm
June 10, 2010

KATU News extended an invitation to Horman’s parents to speak to the media after a reporter found them at a local gym Wednesday after their workout.

But the Horman’s drove off without responding to a question how the media could help.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96033344.html?


Video Clip

0.50
http://www.katu.com/news/local/96033344.html?tab=video


cartfly
Re: Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2010, 09:20:41 PM »

<snipped>

June 8, 2010

Jennifer Hill
Terri, I'm free afternoons all week long if you still want to meet up. And of course I can make myself free anytime if you need anything at all... We will continue to be here for you guys, just let us know how we can help. *hugs* for each of you
15 hours ago ·

Terri Moulton Horman
Hitting the gym tomorrow. I didn't get home until 8pm tonight...
15 hours ago

Jennifer Hill
I figured as much. Txt me when u go, if the timing works out ill keep u company.
8 hours ago

http://www.facebook.com/terri.horman#!/terri.horman?v=wall

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.msg1151976#msg1151976

I thought there was an earlier article with the FBI profiler who stayed with them stating that he told them to carry on as usual to include the gym.  I'm guessing he would suggest that for their mental health as well as there physical health.  I looked for the article when this issue came up before...must of got side tracked as usual.  I'll look again and post if I find it.

I have not read there was an FBI profiler's recommendations but you could be right.

However the point is ... when the facebook comment posted by Terri stating that she was going to be "hitting the gym" came to light ... bloggers (Tamikosmom too) went up one side of her and down the other.  It was the straw that broke the camel's back in regards to suspicions.  However ... when it was revealed that Kaine had "hit the gym" with Terri ... there was an about face.  "Hitting the gym" was justified.

Janet

++++++

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.msg1151976#msg1151976

Maybe I read into this or maybe he said it on the video.  But the article stated this;

The press also asked why the family was not helping with the search. Shults responded in support of the family: "There are many books written on the subject of why family shouldn't help," he said.

He said investigators wanted the family to be close, and available. He said the family needs to be prepared for the long-term experience of "trying to find our boy," and that means keeping themselves healthy –  mentally and physically. http://www.kval.com/news/local/96220474.html?

Yup he says it on the video at 4:50 normal activity to include going to the gym.  Not FBI profiler tho it was the MCSO liason guy.

Personally I don't care if they went to the gym or not. I was one that said it didn't mean much because they usually excersized. What bothered me was the attitude both Terri and Kaine had when the press who was waiting for them, they pretty much snubbed them! I found that to be extremely strange.

[Tracygirl]

I got the point that they said Terri was last to see Kyron, but if he didn't leave the school with her, it is obvious she wasn't the last to see him.

The majority of those are media repeating the same stories and most say last KNOWN person to see Kyron (not parsing words but is there an UNKNOWN person???)  I believe the kids and their stmts as when they were interviewed it was fresh on their mind and children generaly have no agenda at that age as opposed to press etc. and other adults. I think it's odd they kids were told NOT to give the timeline after they were interviewed and specifically Tyler after his second interview. I know LE backtracked on their timline I posted from WS, but why is my question? Was it because she was at FM and Albertsons when she said she was.......not that I don't think she's capable, but in this case 2 + 2 aren't adding up to 4, she'd be under the jail if it that were the case at this point.

There are a ton of first reports that say Terri left Kyron at 9:00. I think that changed to 8:45 because they found Terri to be truthful that she was not at the school then. I think they have known all along that Kyron went missing at about 9.

[Kat_Gram]

This is what I don't like about this case :
MCSD.We have has tidbits from them, just little crumbs. Obtuse ones.
We have information that is given to Kaine & Desiree who are not under the legal restrictions that MCSD is. They regurgitate this information to us through their perception, which is : SHE DID IT, whatever IT is.
No wonder we are going bat sh*t crazy, speaking for myself here.
And then we have the FB gangs and the GLP gang and TJ and JW tossing out mostly nonsense and conjecture. 

[islandmonkey]

I got the point that they said Terri was last to see Kyron, but if he didn't leave the school with her, it is obvious she wasn't the last to see him.

The majority of those are media repeating the same stories and most say last KNOWN person to see Kyron (not parsing words but is there an UNKNOWN person???)  I believe the kids and their stmts as when they were interviewed it was fresh on their mind and children generaly have no agenda at that age as opposed to press etc. and other adults. I think it's odd they kids were told NOT to give the timeline after they were interviewed and specifically Tyler after his second interview. I know LE backtracked on their timline I posted from WS, but why is my question? Was it because she was at FM and Albertsons when she said she was.......not that I don't think she's capable, but in this case 2 + 2 aren't adding up to 4, she'd be under the jail if it that were the case at this point.

There are a ton of first reports that say Terri left Kyron at 9:00. I think that changed to 8:45 because they found Terri to be truthful that she was not at the school then. I think they have known all along that Kyron went missing at about 9.

That is my belief (subject to change in a split second). How many changed their timeline or how many were told not to tell the timeline....sorry probably not even making sense anymore

[islandmonkey]

This is what I don't like about this case :
MCSD.We have has tidbits from them, just little crumbs. Obtuse ones.
We have information that is given to Kaine & Desiree who are not under the legal restrictions that MCSD is. They regurgitate this information to us through their perception, which is : SHE DID IT, whatever IT is.
No wonder we are going bat sh*t crazy, speaking for myself here.
And then we have the FB gangs and the GLP gang and TJ and JW tossing out mostly nonsense and conjecture. 

Again and IMO spot on KG.....for the life of me I can't understand the info allowed to be regurgitated, how many cases can we think of has LE allowed a family members to be the de-facto spokepersons to the media of their perception? Maybe she did in and the told K and D, but if not I know K has a perception issue about many things and if my child was gone, I would be so emtionally frustrated and angry I don't know if I would trust my own perception. I do know in HC's case, the maternal family wasn't given any info and in fact we often very distraught over lack of communication.

[Puzzler]

So Cal site says that Dede's mother posts on here.  HM????

How does SoCal "know"...

Oh, and Tom Jones thinks that DeDe's mother is posting as No Rose Colored Glasses.

Shows what they know....

Oh for gosh sakes! However, I think we need to look back on the comments norose has made, perhaps she got close to the truth and he is trying to discredit her?

I have not read that he said it was no rose colored glasses that was Dede's mother. This is a new revelation on So Cal' forum.

Yes, he's said a few different times (about a day ago) that NRCG sounded like DeDe's mom.  I posted that information here to show how ridiculous a statement that is.  He says it so-matter-of-factly.  His statements often accuse a poster of being "someone"; like today he's accusing poster 055 on GLP of being DeDe herself and he's accusing FlyMonkey of being DeDe, too, because FlyMonkey doesn't want to discuss his rants with him. 

He comes across to me as someone who gets a wild idea and then "just" posts his wild thought.  Almost like the thought comes rolling off his fingertips before he actually "thinks" about it. He's accused others in the past...and in all fairness...is very quick to apologize if he's proven to get something wrong.  However, in the meantime, posters on SoCal's site egg him on...about how he's being used by DeDe and how DeDe's lied to him...and he falls for it and keeps posting more and more feverishly. 

IMO...the posters on SoCal's site are the one's using him...too bad he can't see this for what it really is...IMO

[Tracygirl]

Large map of the main floor

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/?action=view&current=MainFPofSkylineSchool.jpg

Large map of the basement.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/?action=view&current=BasementFPofSkylineSchool.jpg

[Puzzler]

Large map of the main floor

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/?action=view&current=MainFPofSkylineSchool.jpg

Large map of the basement.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/?action=view&current=BasementFPofSkylineSchool.jpg

TG - Very good!  You can clearly see that there's a doorway from the boiler room to an outer hall that leads to the outside.  Down some steps...to the paved area.  Very clear.

[fatcatlurker]

Please someone explain to me where and how did Terri get Kyron out of the building without being seen? If you were to put the name "terri" in the place of "man with 2 girls" does it still fit as a way for Terri to get Kyron out of the building? Did she lure him in the downstairs area and turned right off the stairs and through a back room or kitchen? Could she have placed him in the boiler room for someone to later pick him up?

How did anyone get him out of the building?  And better yet how did anyone get him out of the building with no one seeing anything odd or noteworthy. 

Poof in a 15 minute time period he just drops off the face of the earth.  Gone.  No one saw anything odd.  It's just noted that Kyron is no longer there.

[Puzzler]

I do believe LE was saying she was the last known person to have been with Kyron and isn't that true? Even if she was not the one that took him?
I am not trying to ruffle any feathers but the information released in the beginning of the case may not be what has ended up as truth.

Deputies said Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron on June 4

Deputies have also said in September that things they once thought to be true is not what they believe now, or something to that affect. We don't know if they still believe this. Desiree has even stated that Terri had to have help.

LE is looking for a 2nd person and possibly a 3rd person.  LE does not believe Kyron left the school with Terri - else Terri would definately have been arrested long ago. 

Simply stated:  If Kyron didn't leave the school with Terri, then he left with someone else.  If Kyron left the school with someone else, "that person" is the "last one to see Kyron". 

Doesn't matter how many times LE said Terri was the last one to see Kyron - LE doesn't have to tell us the truth - and, at the time they said that, could have been trying not to let it out that they suspected a second person and possibly a third person involved.

What matters is that LE has said they're looking for a 2nd and 3rd person; ergo, the 2nd person was the last to see Kyron OR if there's a 3rd person involved, then the 3rd person was the last to see Kyron.

[Puzzler]

LE has said over and over (after the initial reports) that TH was the last person to see Kyron.

Not Tanner, not someone by the south entrance, not a male chaperon.  But Terri.

Wonder if LE would put that out into the public - Terri was the last to see Kyron - rather than Tanner or someone else - so as to protect Tanner or someone else?  If someone other than Terri took Kyron, then that person might not want any witnesses and if it got out in the public that "Tanner" saw that person...then that could be bad for Tanner.

I just sometimes think LE is trying to protect people.

[fatcatlurker]

LE has said over and over (after the initial reports) that TH was the last person to see Kyron.

Not Tanner, not someone by the south entrance, not a male chaperon.  But Terri.

I do believe the debate of who was last to see Kyron came about because of this post above.

[Tracygirl]

Please someone explain to me where and how did Terri get Kyron out of the building without being seen? If you were to put the name "terri" in the place of "man with 2 girls" does it still fit as a way for Terri to get Kyron out of the building? Did she lure him in the downstairs area and turned right off the stairs and through a back room or kitchen? Could she have placed him in the boiler room for someone to later pick him up?

How did anyone get him out of the building?  And better yet how did anyone get him out of the building with no one seeing anything odd or noteworthy. 

Poof in a 15 minute time period he just drops off the face of the earth.  Gone.  No one saw anything odd.  It's just noted that Kyron is no longer there.

Sometime between 8:45 and 9:00AM when witness accounts place him near the stairs by the south entrance, Kyron seems to have gone poof.
If I were trying to get a child out of a building without being detected I would take them to a room or area there was no chance to be seen, over power the child, tie and gag him/her and conceal him/her in a container of sorts. I would use a door that didn't have high traffic but could easily explain away if someone caught me or seen me exiting. When looking at the map of the basement I see two areas that I feel could be used, the boiler room and the music room, both have doors that lead outside.   

[fatcatlurker]

And JMO but in alot of cases we don't hear much from the lead investigators in the media.  We do hear information from the families/neighbors/friends of the missing child/person; Diena Thompson, Ron Cummings, Beth Holloway,etc. 

[sebastian]

I keep going back to Stensons remark about the kids that were out front looking at the flower beds. You know how kids are. One child does something and the others follow. Maybe someone told Kyron to meet them out front. Kyron goes out first and others follow along. Kyron goes one direction and the other kids are playing in another direction. Kids are not always too observant, especially when playing.

[Puzzler]

I do believe LE was saying she was the last known person to have been with Kyron and isn't that true? Even if she was not the one that took him?
I am not trying to ruffle any feathers but the information released in the beginning of the case may not be what has ended up as truth.

Fog-of-war scenario - ambiquity - first several ways it's reported turns out to not pan out to be the truth in the end.

[Tracygirl]

LE has said over and over (after the initial reports) that TH was the last person to see Kyron.

Not Tanner, not someone by the south entrance, not a male chaperon.  But Terri.

Wonder if LE would put that out into the public - Terri was the last to see Kyron - rather than Tanner or someone else - so as to protect Tanner or someone else?  If someone other than Terri took Kyron, then that person might not want any witnesses and if it got out in the public that "Tanner" saw that person...then that could be bad for Tanner.

I just sometimes think LE is trying to protect people.

Tanner is a minor, a child who should not have spoken out. I think it is very simple to figure out what he saw can be dangerous for him. The grandmother should have never allowed him to go on TV.
Tanner actually didn't say a man and 2 girls, that is what Terri stated in an email. Tanner said he passed Kyron in the hall when Kyron was heading down the stairs and told him he was going to see a cool electric one. I think Tanner is the same witness that said to have seen Kyron near the south entrance as that is how you get to the basement. I believe Kyron was with this man that Terri was told about. I think she was telling the truth about that. No other reason then I would think it would be too risky to just make that up.
I believe the witness statements as there is no reason to not believe them.

[Tracygirl]

I keep going back to Stensons remark about the kids that were out front looking at the flower beds. You know how kids are. One child does something and the others follow. Maybe someone told Kyron to meet them out front. Kyron goes out first and others follow along. Kyron goes one direction and the other kids are playing in another direction. Kids are not always too observant, especially when playing.

Where are flower beds? Are they in the front, the gym side or the other side of the school?