Lively Case Discussion #586 3/2 - 3/6/2007

[klaasend]

Ms. Marple:

Thank you.  I think I remember hearing very little about him,
only his van.

But there's no proof that he's Joran's half brother?

Are there copies of his statements, or anything about him at all?

No proof that he's Joran's half brother, only rumors.  No witness or suspect statements that we have seen even though we were told he was brought in for questioning.

[msmarple]

Ms. Marple:

Thank you.  I think I remember hearing very little about him,
only his van.

But there's no proof that he's Joran's half brother?

Are there copies of his statements, or anything about him at all?

No, no, no.    

I'm quite blurry on this, but I think some have figured out that Astrid and PVDS WERE in The Netherlands at the same time, and that's when "it" would have to have happened. Lorenzo apparently was born in Holland.

I, for one, don't think he was involved with whatever happened to Natalee. But he came to our attention because he WAS questioned.

One of the Aruba posters at the time told us about the house(s) being searched. If that's true - interesting that they could search his house, but couldn't search the PVDS property.

Onward.

No one else intrigued about the SOAP story? And the co-hinky-dink that Diario has a story about a snake science project? ON THE SAME DAY ...  

[Patti]

Yeah.... But Kimmy, they all knew that she was dead by the time that
secret conversation was recorded.  That was done on the 24th of June.

The body was recovered on the 11th.

They all knew.... that's why Joran says something like, "you know what
happened to the girl, and if you don't know, then nothing happened."
 
Joran knew they'd recovered the body.

Joran's guilty as helk, either that, or he's afraid to say what happened.
But that statement, especially, tells me that the Kalpoes honestly don't
know what happened after they dropped Joran off at the Marriott.

That's why they keep begging him to simply tell the truth.  They want to
go home.

[Kimmy53]

Patti: I think the Kalpoes were involved in the assault, but I too, wonder how much they were involved afterwards.  Joran has sure wanted to keep their names in it.  I have always believed that the K2's have something - some kind of evidence that they have for safe keeping.  Else, the VDS's would have thrown them under the bus a long time ago.

[Patti]

Okay....

When I was reading the Shango posts...

This is what I got.

I think that Natalee returned to the Holiday Inn and went to the casino.  I think the doors were locked.  She was taken down into a basement.

I don't know if there is a basement, there, but when reading the posts
by Shango I envision a basement.

But there is another Lorenzo.  And I think he is the dirty hand... the Lion.

Lorenzo Wever !!!!!!

[Patti]

Kimmy:

They're so worried about getting through this investigation unslathed...
they're not going to do anything to anybody.

[Lala'sMom]

HEY!!!!!! Is someone trying to tango in here?  Patti perhaps?  My Shango Meter just went through the roof.  I knew you guys were dancing without me. Shame!  Where is my book?

[Lala'sMom]

Okay....

When I was reading the Shango posts...

This is what I got.

I think that Natalee returned to the Holiday Inn and went to the casino.  I think the doors were locked.  She was taken down into a basement.

I don't know if there is a basement, there, but when reading the posts
by Shango I envision a basement.

But there is another Lorenzo.  And I think he is the dirty hand... the Lion.

Lorenzo Wever !!!!!!

This is how it works...find a verse from Shango and make it fit to your scenario above. That's the way I do it.

[Cat]

Well I don't know,as i am a cat.I smell a justice coming in the wind.The earth trembles as Justice approaches.You can run,but you will be found.It amazes me that the suspects are all non-arubans.Hmmm I feel that L knows and so does gvc's police sister.There is a special place in Hell for all,of them.Sherlock Cat

[sb]

I had forgotten about that post from arubagirl. I don't like the turn she took in the case, but I will say that she had some intriguing local knowledge and I have always felt like she was telling us the truth.

This case simply is TOO bizarre to be only a run-of-the-mill murder. There is SOMETHING there, that happened that night, that we cannot really wrap our brains around because it is not part of our culture and lifestyle. Whatever was done to her was outside our normal realm of experience.

I have never taken it as 100% fact that Natalee died that very night.

The "how is the girl doing?" statement reinforces that. So does the 4 AM PVDS pickup of BOTH Joran and Natalee.

These characters were doing something with her, or with her body, all during the time that Beth and the rest were arriving the next day and she may have been literally right under their noses when Beth and Jug went out to VDS house.

That thought makes me so sick...

[Patti]

Okay... the first clue:

Simian says:  6/26 11:23pm

Who took the boy to the party?  Who took him home?  Therein lies the third act.  Look up the Simian's posts from days ago.

Days ago he talked about Joran being picked up at 4am.

Who took the boy to the party?  Ans:  Kalpoe and Deepak  

(dropped them off at the Marriott)

and

Who took him home?

(Paulus - after dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn)

[Lala'sMom]

Okay... the first clue:

Simian says:  6/26 11:23pm

Who took the boy to the party?  Who took him home?  Therein lies the third act.  Look up the Simian's posts from days ago.

Days ago he talked about Joran being picked up at 4am.

Who took the boy to the party?  Ans:  Kalpoe and Deepak  

(dropped them off at the Marriott)

and

Who took him home?

(Paulus - after dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn)

Where was the party?  At who's house?  Was it Lorenzo the mystery man or Lorenzo the pretty boy?  

What part does the Marriott play in this?  Was the party there?  What happened at the HI?  If Natalee was left at the HI, why the need to fabricate the original HI story between JK2?  Just more questions.

[Patti]

The next item:

Shango says:  June 27, 10:09

Children of the Elders play in the maze,
but Dirty Hand is afraid to rave.

The Maze is the casino... Dirty Hand is Michael Posner - the owner ~

he's afraid to rave because of the power that their parent's have.

[Patti]

June 27 10:41

Mary Rolled through the maze
There is more than one house of music
the lamb is a scape goat.

10:42

The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary rolled and the Lions played

Evidently, they had gone to a party at another house.  But when Joran
dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn - He became the scape goat - not sure why... and I don't really care.  He's a putz.

The Lamb - Joran - returned home.

[BTgirl]

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father.
It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure



Hmmmmmmmm

[Lala'sMom]

The next item:

Shango says:  June 27, 10:09

Children of the Elders play in the maze,
but Dirty Hand is afraid to rave.

The Maze is the casino... Dirty Hand is Michael Posner - the owner ~

he's afraid to rave because of the power that their parent's have.

Shango clearly tells you who is Dirty Hand.  Well, at least one of them.  It has been speculated that there are many.  Actually Shango tells us there have been many.  

But, let's go with your assumption that it is Posner.  My next question...what kind of power would the parents have?  Who's parents?  The Elders?  Wouldn't Posner have more power than them?  Afterall he created this MAZE.  Also note that the word maze is treated as a proper noun...just thinking...

[Lala'sMom]

June 27 10:41

Mary Rolled through the maze
There is more than one house of music
the lamb is a scape goat.

10:42

The Lamb returned to the fold
Mary rolled and the Lions played

Evidently, they had gone to a party at another house.  But when Joran
dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn - He became the scape goat - not sure why... and I don't really care.  He's a putz.

The Lamb - Joran - returned home.

Why is it that only Mary "rolled" ?  Could that mean she moved through the maze?  I know many interpret it as a reference to doing ecstacy.  

How do you know that Joran dropped Natalee at the HI?  Where does Shango say that?   Why would Joran be a scapegoat if he was simply doing what he does every time they need a victim?  Who is "they"?  Elders? Posner?  Is Lorenzo an Elder?  Which Lorenzo? More questions...little answers.

Patti...you've got mail.  

[Patti]

What?  You want me to figure out why people do the stupid things they do?  Just kidding...

I, honestly, don't know.

Maybe Paulus is protecting more people than just his son.

Maybe Paulus thought that if he told a lie about Natalee being dropped off
by Deepak, they wouldn't find her and that would be that.

He never thought about the fact that they had survelience cameras.

Why did Paulus call the Holiday Inn, first thing in the morning... the casino?

I don't know... but Shango did.

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Kathleen Feeney, American Tourist Missing in St Maarten Since March 1, 2007

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2007/03/06/kathleen-feeney-american-tourist-missing-in-st-maarten-since-march-1-2007/

[friend of monkeys]

Then I asked my brother how the girl was doing.



hmmm...so

the girl was Not doing well..... otherwise, why ask the question ?

sick ?
unresponsive ?

both ?

Maybe someday Satish will speak up

Hi monkeys