Lively Case Discussion #586 3/2 - 3/6/2007

[friend of monkeys]

Hello FOM,I hope you got what you wished for,a spa treatment.I think the drug bidness and different cartels and money cleaning is so powerful,that the apple cart must be kept upright at all costs,and yes I heard others in that bidness in our area always want dirt on their bidnes partners.MAD(mutual assured destruction)Remember,the porn bidnezz is lucrative,also,and we know that was part the game..cat

Hey Cat-- yes-it had alot to do with people like that.  I google Lorenzo
Wever.....so we are all talking about the same guy....just changing his name as it goes?   Wever is an old island name--lots of connections to the
older generation of Arubans....and the crematorium?  strange.......

never really went to riehl world before......hyscience stuff is interesting....the info here seems more accurate to me....
plus i like monkeys and cats....

[Kimmy53]

I think that Paulus has some dirt on others, maybe not protecting them, but holding something over their heads, for their cooperation.

I really think that the VDS' and K2's figured they could just lie their way out of things, that Natalee's family would just accept the security guards as those responsible, and would leave the island... They never expected the persistance of Beth & others.

"there is more than one house of music" another bar perhaps? The "maze" could that be the route they drove?  Just thinking outside the box - way outside

Or maybe the dirt is on Paulus and he can't talk. Remember he agreed to sing any tune.

I agree Lala's. That's why I posted what I did earlier from Simian.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father.
It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure

If Joran is the sacrificial lamb and not the culprit, then I think it would logically be Paulus that he is being sacrificed for.

Evidence??? interesting word, is there film showing Paulus with her?

And also, remember Joran said he'd do what his family told him?  Could very well have been covering for Paulus, and he and all his family are proud at how well he stood up against the interrogations.  

Oh yeah, did I mention -   Slootbags  this is for you.

[klaasend]

Running to the store, BRB

[Lala'sMom]

Where did Patti go?  Did I scare her away?  I am really a nice person, once you get to know me.  Come back...we have more to talk about.

[friend of monkeys]

Klass---very strange indeed...luckily the librarian did not catch me....

u must go to some really wild sites to find this.....
oh--no--these kids are advertising.....very sick indeed

[Lala'sMom]

Running to the store, BRB

Get a car...you make my feet hurt.  

[MisGivings]

Running to the store, BRB

DANG IT! She forgot to get my order again...

[Lala'sMom]

Since it is almost time for me to take my leave...I will give you Shangoers a few tidbits to chew on...

What if Shango was NEVER in Aruba?  

What if ALE helped hide and dispose of the body?

What if the maze means a network of places to move people around undetected?

What if "rolled" doesn't mean doing ecstasy?

What if Paulus is bound by the "secret" mafia code of Omerta?

What if Lorenzo the mystery man really is related to Sloots and this is Paulus connections?

Be back later tonight...

[Peaches]

You really know how to get 'em started, Lala's!

I'm headed out soon too.

Have a great day!

[LilPuma]

Started thinking that maybe this is why K2 asked "how is the girl?", knowing she was drugged and given to someone, but not knowing she was murdered.  JK2 just acted as "pimps" and got paid to bring a girl.  And that is where they get their money, from drugging and pimping out unsuspecting girls (20 times)
 

  YEP

The term "pimps" is used by young people a lot, but LoverBoy does mean pimp in the more traditional sense in Dutch culture, I believe.  Joran using that screenname may be accurate, not just a young man trying to be cool and tough.

[LilPuma]

I think that Paulus has some dirt on others, maybe not protecting them, but holding something over their heads, for their cooperation.
I really think that the VDS' and K2's figured they could just lie their way out of things, that Natalee's family would just accept the security guards as those responsible, and would leave the island... They never expected the persistance of Beth & others.

"there is more than one house of music" another bar perhaps? The "maze" could that be the route they drove?  Just thinking outside the box - way outside

That's why I think there is still evidence.  Not just evidence that the Dutch have that we don't know about, but evidence that's being kept somewhere.  If Joran, Paulus or the Kalpoes ever implicate any of the high rollers from drugs, money laundering or human trafficking, or those taking payoffs to help them, that evidence will mysteriously turn up.  No honor among thieves, as they say.  Insurance.  Dompig wants to solve the case, Michael Dompig tells what he knows, and suddenly the rumor is that Michael will be arrested.  Dompig says Michael lied and no arrest.  A girl comes forward to say she was drugged and raped by Joran, but Joran is released and she changes her story, claims she was bribed.  Deepak talks to Skeeters and is arrested the next day.  Harold Copus is told to stop investigating Holloway or they may not leave the island alive.   Deepak and Satish don't stick to Joran's storyline and their mother loses her job.  This is life in Aruba.  

This is where Robots jumps in to say "I hate them all."

[Patti]

Look.... Posner has a lot of power. But who want's to rave at his friends children.  The only reason he says it ~ is so you will recogninze what maze he's talking about.  He even tells you, there are two houses.  Would one of the most powerful men on the island allow a bunch of kids to sit around and smoke crack and take x, and worry about raving?  No.  He is telling you.... this is the third act.

You already went through the first act, the second act and now you are at the third one.

What ever you thought in the past, is over.  

They're preparing their goat for you.  If you don't know its' a goat, it won't matter, will it?

If you want to believe all this malarkey that they have given you, then you'll eat it.  THere are two houses.  The house of the goat and the house of the lion.  The lamb has gone to his pastures.  

The Gods are powerful. (period

And .... I'm tired.


LaLa's Mom:

Am I being nice?  You've got mail.

[Jerry from Ohio]

I think that Paulus has some dirt on others, maybe not protecting them, but holding something over their heads, for their cooperation.

I really think that the VDS' and K2's figured they could just lie their way out of things, that Natalee's family would just accept the security guards as those responsible, and would leave the island... They never expected the persistance of Beth & others.

"there is more than one house of music" another bar perhaps? The "maze" could that be the route they drove?  Just thinking outside the box - way outside

Or maybe the dirt is on Paulus and he can't talk. Remember he agreed to sing any tune.

I agree Lala's. That's why I posted what I did earlier from Simian.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father.
It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure

If Joran is the sacrificial lamb and not the culprit, then I think it would logically be Paulus that he is being sacrificed for.

  I have said on two ocasions that I believe that Paulis had a lot more to do with Natalees rape and torture then any one would imagine  but it sort of got shoved aside because of my  dreams that showed me this
 But I swear to the great sperit that I saw as clear as a mountain Lake that Paulis was in a room at his or Jorans apt and he was have non -consensual sex with Natalee .
  This sort of thing has hapened to me too many times in my life and it usually NOT 100% NOW BUT IN THE GREAT MAJORITY OF DREAMS it has come out that it was a true vision .
  So ladys  I also believe that Paulis has a lot more dirt on his hands and mind on this then has yet to come out and if you do not thing Paulis is capable of this sort of thing then all I can say is that this man IS far more then capable of this type of deviant behavior with a young attractive woman such as Natalee was .

[San]

I think that Paulus has some dirt on others, maybe not protecting them, but holding something over their heads, for their cooperation.

I really think that the VDS' and K2's figured they could just lie their way out of things, that Natalee's family would just accept the security guards as those responsible, and would leave the island... They never expected the persistance of Beth & others.

"there is more than one house of music" another bar perhaps? The "maze" could that be the route they drove?  Just thinking outside the box - way outside

Or maybe the dirt is on Paulus and he can't talk. Remember he agreed to sing any tune.

I agree Lala's. That's why I posted what I did earlier from Simian.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father.
It was to hard for her and she could not handle the pressure

If Joran is the sacrificial lamb and not the culprit, then I think it would logically be Paulus that he is being sacrificed for.

  I have said on two ocasions that I believe that Paulis had a lot more to do with Natalees rape and torture then any one would imagine  but it sort of got shoved aside because of my  dreams that showed me this
 But I swear to the great sperit that I saw as clear as a mountain Lake that Paulis was in a room at his or Jorans apt and he was have non -consensual sex with Natalee .
  This sort of thing has hapened to me too many times in my life and it usually NOT 100% NOW BUT IN THE GREAT MAJORITY OF DREAMS it has come out that it was a true vision .
  So ladys  I also believe that Paulis has a lot more dirt on his hands and mind on this then has yet to come out and if you do not thing Paulis is capable of this sort of thing then all I can say is that this man IS far more then capable of this type of deviant behavior with a young attractive woman such as Natalee was .

I totally agree.  Paulus is the one who allowed Natalee to die.  Joran harmed her and now Paulus has to make his decision because he can't let her live she will identify him.

[Dayhiker]

I think that Paulus has some dirt on others, maybe not protecting them, but holding something over their heads, for their cooperation.
I really think that the VDS' and K2's figured they could just lie their way out of things, that Natalee's family would just accept the security guards as those responsible, and would leave the island... They never expected the persistance of Beth & others.

"there is more than one house of music" another bar perhaps? The "maze" could that be the route they drove?  Just thinking outside the box - way outside

That's why I think there is still evidence.  Not just evidence that the Dutch have that we don't know about, but evidence that's being kept somewhere.  If Joran, Paulus or the Kalpoes ever implicate any of the high rollers from drugs, money laundering or human trafficking, or those taking payoffs to help them, that evidence will mysteriously turn up.  No honor among thieves, as they say.  Insurance.  Dompig wants to solve the case, Michael Dompig tells what he knows, and suddenly the rumor is that Michael will be arrested.  Dompig says Michael lied and no arrest.  A girl comes forward to say she was drugged and raped by Joran, but Joran is released and she changes her story, claims she was bribed.  Deepak talks to Skeeters and is arrested the next day.  Harold Copus is told to stop investigating Holloway or they may not leave the island alive.   Deepak and Satish don't stick to Joran's storyline and their mother loses her job.  This is life in Aruba.  

This is where Robots jumps in to say "I hate them all."

I couldn't agree more Puma and Kimmy. There is no way they would have dodged justice this long without PVDS having his slimey tentacles in the dark side of Aruba politics and business. The pressure to cover up for him and his bastard son has been overwhelming from the top down.

Hands were tied, the media was run off, the FBI denied access and capabilities, a concerted effort was launched from the powers to discredit the victim and her family, evidence was lost, searches of the main residence refused, statements missing, judges' decisions bordering on ridiculous, the local media throwing up smoke screens, false promises made by talking heads, etcetera etcetera. PVDS was no small potato when it came to knowing the dirt on the island bosses. They all fell in line to protect their own hides.

[friend of monkeys]

Patti---- don't know if u are still here.....

Are you referring to a party that may have taken place in the Holiday Inn that night?  One for the "high rollers".....and Lorenzo Wever is how the two "houses" are connected?

Lorenzo suppplies the drugs and the girls for Papa and his friends??  Lots of them ALE to begin with?

Will check in later monkeys...I see it is slow..but intersting group of monkeys popping in today

All the best
FOM

[friend of monkeys]

Okay... the first clue:

Simian says:  6/26 11:23pm

Who took the boy to the party?  Who took him home?  Therein lies the third act.  Look up the Simian's posts from days ago.

Days ago he talked about Joran being picked up at 4am.

Who took the boy to the party?  Ans:  Kalpoe and Deepak  

(dropped them off at the Marriott)

and

Who took him home?

(Paulus - after dropping Natalee off at the Holiday Inn)

*************************************************************
Remember, there was a room at the Holiday Inn that was totally re-done, carpet and all the day after Natalee went missing.

Right...so the third act is inbetween.....???

just talking to myself.....

[Patti]

I just read my post.

I want to make my self clear.

The name that I mentioned is "the" lion.... the one that the others are
protecting.  And Michael is the dirty hand... at least in that one post.

I don't want to throw all your theories out the window.

Believe whatever you want.  I was simply making my own interpretation of SHANGO.

[bleachedblack]

I think that Paulus has some dirt on others, maybe not protecting them, but holding something over their heads, for their cooperation.
I really think that the VDS' and K2's figured they could just lie their way out of things, that Natalee's family would just accept the security guards as those responsible, and would leave the island... They never expected the persistance of Beth & others.

"there is more than one house of music" another bar perhaps? The "maze" could that be the route they drove?  Just thinking outside the box - way outside

That's why I think there is still evidence.  Not just evidence that the Dutch have that we don't know about, but evidence that's being kept somewhere.  If Joran, Paulus or the Kalpoes ever implicate any of the high rollers from drugs, money laundering or human trafficking, or those taking payoffs to help them, that evidence will mysteriously turn up.  No honor among thieves, as they say.  Insurance.  Dompig wants to solve the case, Michael Dompig tells what he knows, and suddenly the rumor is that Michael will be arrested.  Dompig says Michael lied and no arrest.  A girl comes forward to say she was drugged and raped by Joran, but Joran is released and she changes her story, claims she was bribed.  Deepak talks to Skeeters and is arrested the next day.  Harold Copus is told to stop investigating Holloway or they may not leave the island alive.   Deepak and Satish don't stick to Joran's storyline and their mother loses her job.  This is life in Aruba.  

This is where Robots jumps in to say "I hate them all."

Afternoon Monkeys, I am reading alittle and catching up even less...
I recently read this article(old article) and it makes me wonder  
If Golba were "hired " to search specific areas in Aruba (which sound very much like they could even be a maze of sorts), how likely would anything he found have been turned over to the right people. IMO he would have turned things over to ALE, never to be seen again.  

+++++++++++++++++++++

COSBY:  And we have some exclusive details to tell you about in the Natalee Holloway case tonight.  LIVE & DIRECT has learned that a new search is now under way on the island of Aruba for the missing Alabama teen.  Just today, a team headed into an Aruban cave looking for clues.  And tomorrow they‘re headed back to the sand dunes.

On the phone with us right now tonight from Aruba is Fred Golba.  He‘s with the search group, called Child Watch Canine.

You know, Fred, why the caves?  Everyone‘s going—it sounds like this is the first time we‘ve heard of caves being searched.  Why there?

FRED GOLBA, CHILD WATCH CANINE:  Well, these caves are out in the Baby Beach area on the other side of San Nicolas.  And what I do each morning is I go to the police department, and I check in with them, and they give me defined areas to go and search.

And this was an area that they suggested that I go into and search to rule it out.  And what we did was we went out there.  And it looks like, you know, a desert field on the top, with cactus and some grass out there, which is very easily accessed from the main road.  You could drive a regular motor vehicle out to the area.

And as you walk out there, there‘s these air shafts that go down into these gold mines and phosphorus mines.  And some of these holes go down 50 feet, 100 feet, and you cannot see the bottom down in there, in some of them.

So what I did was I took your producer with me, and we did a repel down into the caves.  And we walked around, you know, down below ground in these caves, checking below these air shafts, to see if somebody had discarded the person that we‘re looking for down there.

COSBY:  Was there anything—as we‘re looking at some pictures, by the way, Fred, of you and your dog right now—anything that you saw of interest?  And were Aruban investigators with you during this search?

GOLBA:  No, they knew that I knew the area.  So, you know, they let me go out there.  When they have an area that I‘m not aware of, they will escort me out there and, you know, show me defined areas, such as my last trip in December, I was out in the Indian burial grounds, which isn‘t far from Deepak and Satish‘s house.

And we went out there, and there was a real big well that was, you know, a very old well that was out there.  And we weren‘t able to search it, you know, in any way, shape, or form, and not with a dog, because the sides of the wells were—you know, it‘s not accessible by a dog.

So what we did was we went there today with the infrared camera, and we put a camera head down to the bottom of the well and searched the bottom of the well and came up negative.  So we have ruled out the Indian burial grounds, and we ruled out the air shafts and the caves out by Baby Beach, which is almost right across the street from the prison.  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11857796/

[bleachedblack]

Patti---- don't know if u are still here.....

Are you referring to a party that may have taken place in the Holiday Inn that night?  One for the "high rollers".....and Lorenzo Wever is how the two "houses" are connected?

Lorenzo suppplies the drugs and the girls for Papa and his friends??  Lots of them ALE to begin with?

Will check in later monkeys...I see it is slow..but intersting group of monkeys popping in today

All the best
FOM

Sorry FOM, can you please tell me who Lorenzo Wever is?