Lively Case Discussion #586 3/2 - 3/6/2007

[Elaine]

Hi everyone ...I finally got logged in..this was the first time I tried today though.Yesterday I tried several times but kept getting kicked out.

What's up?Anything new?

HI Greeneyedlady, i could not get in by way of Aol for a couple of days. Had to use Internet explorer but now I am here by way of aol.


San I have wondered about Ben King for along time. Plus he was the one who was there when the Sloot search warrant was done.

Yes he was Sam along with Judge Bob Wit.

Yes, Ben King and Bob Wit just happened to be there for the search...how covenient. Aruba sucks!

[Sam]

Klaas, I am so surprised by that cartoon. Jorans friends? Now I am going to click the link.


Off topic, Today I ordered Disney tickets for a grandaughter. My confirmation was SHIT and a bunch of numbers. Sort of strange to come from Disney. Must be some sort of computer foul. Son always says garbage in garbage out.

[greeneyedlady]

Hi Sam and Klaas!

Klaas who are those boys Fakkel and Jimmy?
I've never seen this before,tis interesting.

[klaasend]

[klaasend]

Hi Sam and Klaas!

Klaas who are those boys Fakkel and Jimmy?
I've never seen this before,tis interesting.

They are or were friends of Joran.  They may have gone to school with him.

[dkpen]

This is exactly why I think they are trying to confuse everyone because we don't have the right name.  Who knows it could be a combination of names from two different people.
The one person they can't seem to touch is Guido.  Guido had the best attorney that money can buy from day one.  Why.

San--a sensible monkey, if that's not a misnomer.  I'd like to know how Guido, a model and dealer of rather young age, was able to afford the retainer of such a high-powered attorney.  Who provided him the money for the retainer?  That would be interesting information, wouldn't it?

I would love to see the big money transactions going on in Aruba the first two weeks in June 2005.  Wasn't it said that the retainer was something like $1MM.

hahaha wouldn't that be awsome if someone from IRS went to audit Aruba and every single business there from 2004-2007 and maybe even further. Talk about a field day and what they'd uncover.

[greeneyedlady]

Hi Sam and Klaas!

Klaas who are those boys Fakkel and Jimmy?
I've never seen this before,tis interesting.

They are or were friends of Joran.  They may have gone to school with him.

OK..I was wondering because they look so young.I haven't clicked the link...should I?

[bleachedblack]

Widget - I'm not 100% sure of anything in this case.  I will say that I searched everthing I could and found no Lorenzo Wever in Aruba.  That does not mean that someone couldn't have a nickname of Lorenzo though.  That said, I still believe there are 2 separate people:

Guido Wever (who I do believe is gay)
Lorenzo Van Rijn (who I still would like to know why he's being protected)

And, I would like to add that Guido Wever claims in court documents to have had MORE than platonic relationship with Joran.

This is an interesting post Klaas , I wasn't aware of this. That said, I have noticed many weird and confusing posts starting on roughly page 40.  

[klaasend]

Hi Sam and Klaas!

Klaas who are those boys Fakkel and Jimmy?
I've never seen this before,tis interesting.

They are or were friends of Joran.  They may have gone to school with him.

OK..I was wondering because they look so young.I haven't clicked the link...should I?

It's fine unless you are at work.  Some of his "cartoon drawings" are "R" rated.

[Elaine]

Joran, Fakkel and Jimmy - from Joran's old Myspace site:



Fakkel and Jimmy - from Fakkel's current MSN Spaces site:



Cartoon - from Fakkel's current MSN Spaces site - please excuse the language in the cartoon but I need to post as is so you can see how these people think:



Fakkel's current MSN Spaces link - Some of the drawings are inappropriate and would be rated "R" - do not open this link if you are at work:

http://smallzlilspace.spaces.live.com/

GEL - I posted this a few pages back.  Thought the cartoon was rather interresting.

Very interesting indeed. I looked at all 19 of his "drawings". A lot of sex, drugs and booze, and basically belittling women, yep, that is the mindset on one crappy island.

[klaasend]

Widget - I'm not 100% sure of anything in this case.  I will say that I searched everthing I could and found no Lorenzo Wever in Aruba.  That does not mean that someone couldn't have a nickname of Lorenzo though.  That said, I still believe there are 2 separate people:

Guido Wever (who I do believe is gay)
Lorenzo Van Rijn (who I still would like to know why he's being protected)

And, I would like to add that Guido Wever claims in court documents to have had MORE than platonic relationship with Joran.

This is an interesting post Klaas , I wasn't aware of this. That said, I have noticed many weird and confusing posts starting on roughly page 40.  

When PVDS first went to court for damages, not this last time...it came out in court that Guido had admitted to a relationship with Joran.  I'm assuming it is from Guido's suspect or witness statements.

[Cat]

i do know there is a lot of illegal money funding aruba,both from the america's and Europe.Corruption is the name of the game.I think a lot of people know,and I have doubts about guido' s gayness.I also note that I am trying not to offend,but the case involves some people who don't want to be known as drug dealers and money launderers.Cat   The Van Cromfelt's are the visibilty team people and could get you a Valium.

[klaasend]

i do know there is a lot of illegal money funding aruba,both from the america's and Europe.Corruption is the name of the game.I think a lot of people know,and I have doubts about guido' s gayness.I also note that I am trying not to offend,but the case involves some people who don't want to be known as drug dealers and money launderers.Cat   The Van Cromfelt's are the visibilty team people and could get you a Valium.

Good points Cat.  I do believe Guido is gay though, at least Bi

[Tibrogargan]

Hi Sam and Klaas!

Klaas who are those boys Fakkel and Jimmy?
I've never seen this before,tis interesting.

They are or were friends of Joran.  They may have gone to school with him.

And for someone who does not drink or do drugs (according to his doting and demented mother) Joran sure looks wasted.    

bb It has been an interesting morning.  Had to drag the broom out earlier than usual.

Monkeys For those that have not visited the lounge yet, Tylergal posted an article in the prayers thread from a lass that was trapped in the High School from the Tornado.  Makes you think and be thankful for a lot of things[/b]

[sandy leiva]

Hi Sam and Klaas!

Klaas who are those boys Fakkel and Jimmy?
I've never seen this before,tis interesting.

They are or were friends of Joran.  They may have gone to school with him.

Hi monkeys
working and lurking, I saw Valentjin Jorans brother in one of those pictures.  Oh and when I was reading back someone wanted translation for the man found dead in his home.  The ale or polis claim it was of natural causes.  How they know that without an autopsey is totally beyond me.  All adults lie -says Nadira.  

Just my opinion but i remember depak telling Joran you sot in trouble for that.  It was made in reference to Joran passing Natalee off to the elders.  Seemed like heJoran was supposed to deliver a virgin, and they the elders were upset that joran had touched and played with the merchandise.  But i think with paulus involvement -maybe joran was taking the rap for the father.  I always believed pvds was alot more involved than just disposing of the body.  I think he was in a video with nat as he raped her with his mask on.  Tho body of that man was that of an older man not a youngster.  I dont know who has the clip from the video but if someone does can it be reposted.  There was also a picture of joran in a white suv, laughing over the dry bones of a person half out of the blowing sand.  I remember it incensed me to no end to have that photo on the net as if it was making fun without a care for the victem.  Anyone have it.  thanks in advance. sl

[greeneyedlady]

I think Guido is much more involved in this than has been said.Also I've thought that the white car that was "annoyingly chasing" Deepak's car the night Natalee disappeared was Guido's white car.I find it very strange that he'd just got that brand new white car and went off to Holland earlier than was supposed to and left that new car behind.It wasn't like his parents didn't have the $$$ to have it shipped for hom.
Also found it strange when one of the the charges on Guido were expressed as 'heavy battery"I always wondered where that came from.I mean how would someone know that it was heavy battery without seeing a beaten Natalee or an eyewitness?

[Sam]

Hi Elaine, Bleached and Cat, Just want you to know I am not ignoring you.

I loooked at that link. Lots of pure crap. Who is Hiram Vrolijk? Why does that name sound familar?

[klaasend]

Hi Sam and Klaas!

Klaas who are those boys Fakkel and Jimmy?
I've never seen this before,tis interesting.

They are or were friends of Joran.  They may have gone to school with him.

Hi monkeys
working and lurking, I saw Valentjin Jorans brother in one of those pictures.  Oh and when I was reading back someone wanted translation for the man found dead in his home.  The ale or polis claim it was of natural causes.  How they know that without an autopsey is totally beyond me.  All adults lie -says Nadira.  

Just my opinion but i remember depak telling Joran you sot in trouble for that.  It was made in reference to Joran passing Natalee off to the elders.  Seemed like heJoran was supposed to deliver a virgin, and they the elders were upset that joran had touched and played with the merchandise.  But i think with paulus involvement -maybe joran was taking the rap for the father.  I always believed pvds was alot more involved than just disposing of the body.  I think he was in a video with nat as he raped her with his mask on.  Tho body of that man was that of an older man not a youngster.  I dont know who has the clip from the video but if someone does can it be reposted.  There was also a picture of joran in a white suv, laughing over the dry bones of a person half out of the blowing sand.  I remember it incensed me to no end to have that photo on the net as if it was making fun without a care for the victem.  Anyone have it.  thanks in advance. sl

Sandy - that picture of Joran and the bones was a fake, a photoshopped picture.  It's one of many from a dutch website.

[klaasend]

While looking for the screen shots of the video I came accross this again.  Just a reminder  

[Elaine]

I think Guido is much more involved in this than has been said.Also I've thought that the white car that was "annoyingly chasing" Deepak's car the night Natalee disappeared was Guido's white car.I find it very strange that he'd just got that brand new white car and went off to Holland earlier than was supposed to and left that new car behind.It wasn't like his parents didn't have the $$$ to have it shipped for hom.
Also found it strange when one of the the charges on Guido were expressed as 'heavy battery"I always wondered where that came from.I mean how would someone know that it was heavy battery without seeing a beaten Natalee or an eyewitness?

I think the white car was Guido's. I also think that when the facts come out about this case, we will learn that prosecution has more knowledge of what really happened....IMO