Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #40 1/01/11 - 1/18/11

[Puzzler]

I keep thinking about Kaine's attorney wanting Medical records. I guess it is fair to assume that they are Terri's. I wonder if Terri has a diagnosed mental condition? One that she takes medication for? If so, you would think that it would have been "leaked". On the other hand, if Terri was on some sort of prescription medication and was mixing these drugs with alcohol, well, that would leave Kaine in a precarious situation with regards to allowing his children in her care. I don't know, Terri's actions almost scream mental disorder. She is either guilty as sin or she is not right in the head mentally. I got chills reading those texts. In fairness, as Puzzler pointed out, there may have been more to the texts that we have not seen. I thought it was really really odd how Terri jumped into the sex talk so soon. Maybe there are many more texts?

Sebastian - I thought it jumped into sexting really quicky, too.  What led up to the sexting?  Even if you're someone that has done that a lot, I'd still expect to see a few sentences leading up to it.  The sexting exhibit is a "portion" of all the texting.  It's obvious that all is not there - more before and more after...don't remember "exact words" now, but at the very end there was a cut off sentence that I remember wishing I knew what the rest of the sentence said.

[Puzzler]

I think the MFH sting was botched from the get go when another person showed up with the gardener/landscaper (whatever he was). TH had to report it, think about it. She smelled hinky right away. The only thing to do was report it

The other person was a DEA undercover agent.

[Puzzler]

Several have asked what the sexting has to do with Kyron's disappearance, or I guess what it means to us - because at this point we don't know what it means to LE and their investigation.

I think that many of us on the "it matters" side of the fence feel it matters because it shows a state of mind towards the disappearance of the child.  In our eyes, in our *opinions* (with all the implications that word has) it shows a callousness and disregard for the state her life *should* be in if she were truly grieving and worried about the missing child.  In our eyes, it shows that rather than worrying about little Kyron (and three weeks is wayyy to early to be resolved), she's got extra-curricular activity of some sort on her mind.  It also shows that she's inappropriate in a way that is striking, and that inappropriateness again points back towards her feelings about the disappearance of Kyron.

Just as you feel it doesn't matter, it does strongly matter - so thank you for asking "why".  Just as we respect your opinion that it doesn't, I truly hope you respect our opinion that it not only does is quite significant.

Yes, that's what bothers me about that whole sexting thing, well said. I can't imagine sexting/flirting even being a thought if I had a child missing and if for some reason it was, I still wouldn't even go there, knowing if found out I would look even worse on many levels. 

Going out on a limb and saying..I do not for one moment think she left any spot on any sofa. She is a manipulator.

I am telling you, it is like watching a black widow spider.

Yes, I agree.  A couple of sentences sounded to me more like what a man would say.  IDK.

[Shell]

I think the MFH sting was botched from the get go when another person showed up with the gardener/landscaper (whatever he was). TH had to report it, think about it. She smelled hinky right away. The only thing to do was report it

The other person was a DEA undercover agent.

Thank you..I knew it was some sort of agent...that agent being a stranger to Terri

[sebastian]

I keep thinking about Kaine's attorney wanting Medical records. I guess it is fair to assume that they are Terri's. I wonder if Terri has a diagnosed mental condition? One that she takes medication for? If so, you would think that it would have been "leaked". On the other hand, if Terri was on some sort of prescription medication and was mixing these drugs with alcohol, well, that would leave Kaine in a precarious situation with regards to allowing his children in her care. I don't know, Terri's actions almost scream mental disorder. She is either guilty as sin or she is not right in the head mentally. I got chills reading those texts. In fairness, as Puzzler pointed out, there may have been more to the texts that we have not seen. I thought it was really really odd how Terri jumped into the sex talk so soon. Maybe there are many more texts?

Sebastian - I thought it jumped into sexting really quicky, too.  What led up to the sexting?  Even if you're someone that has done that a lot, I'd still expect to see a few sentences leading up to it.  The sexting exhibit is a "portion" of all the texting.  It's obvious that all is not there - more before and more after...don't remember "exact words" now, but at the very end there was a cut off sentence that I remember wishing I knew what the rest of the sentence said.

I remember when reading them, some of the sentences seemed like they were cut off. I do believe that there are more texts. I think if they are going to show them in court, than they should show ALL of them. I have this strong sense of fair play which is why I was on the fence about Terri for a while. I now believe that Terri is involved, but I also believe that evidence needs to be presented in its entirety.

[sebastian]

Puzzler,
In answer to your other question, I think that the sexting seemed to come out of left field. It was pretty polite and then BAM! Maybe that is how Terri operates or like we are surmising, maybe we are only seeing part of the texts.

[Puzzler]

I keep thinking about Kaine's attorney wanting Medical records. I guess it is fair to assume that they are Terri's. I wonder if Terri has a diagnosed mental condition? One that she takes medication for? If so, you would think that it would have been "leaked". On the other hand, if Terri was on some sort of prescription medication and was mixing these drugs with alcohol, well, that would leave Kaine in a precarious situation with regards to allowing his children in her care. I don't know, Terri's actions almost scream mental disorder. She is either guilty as sin or she is not right in the head mentally. I got chills reading those texts. In fairness, as Puzzler pointed out, there may have been more to the texts that we have not seen. I thought it was really really odd how Terri jumped into the sex talk so soon. Maybe there are many more texts?

Sebastian - I thought it jumped into sexting really quicky, too.  What led up to the sexting?  Even if you're someone that has done that a lot, I'd still expect to see a few sentences leading up to it.  The sexting exhibit is a "portion" of all the texting.  It's obvious that all is not there - more before and more after...don't remember "exact words" now, but at the very end there was a cut off sentence that I remember wishing I knew what the rest of the sentence said.

I remember when reading them, some of the sentences seemed like they were cut off. I do believe that there are more texts. I think if they are going to show them in court, than they should show ALL of them. I have this strong sense of fair play which is why I was on the fence about Terri for a while. I now believe that Terri is involved, but I also believe that evidence needs to be presented in its entirety.

Do you know that the text of the account holder's record can be changed?  Not saying that happened in this case; but it's an interesting piece of information to know.

[sebastian]

I think the MFH sting was botched from the get go when another person showed up with the gardener/landscaper (whatever he was). TH had to report it, think about it. She smelled hinky right away. The only thing to do was report it

The other person was a DEA undercover agent.

I thought the DEA was drug enforcement? Do they usually get involved in these situations?

[sebastian]

I keep thinking about Kaine's attorney wanting Medical records. I guess it is fair to assume that they are Terri's. I wonder if Terri has a diagnosed mental condition? One that she takes medication for? If so, you would think that it would have been "leaked". On the other hand, if Terri was on some sort of prescription medication and was mixing these drugs with alcohol, well, that would leave Kaine in a precarious situation with regards to allowing his children in her care. I don't know, Terri's actions almost scream mental disorder. She is either guilty as sin or she is not right in the head mentally. I got chills reading those texts. In fairness, as Puzzler pointed out, there may have been more to the texts that we have not seen. I thought it was really really odd how Terri jumped into the sex talk so soon. Maybe there are many more texts?

Sebastian - I thought it jumped into sexting really quicky, too.  What led up to the sexting?  Even if you're someone that has done that a lot, I'd still expect to see a few sentences leading up to it.  The sexting exhibit is a "portion" of all the texting.  It's obvious that all is not there - more before and more after...don't remember "exact words" now, but at the very end there was a cut off sentence that I remember wishing I knew what the rest of the sentence said.

I remember when reading them, some of the sentences seemed like they were cut off. I do believe that there are more texts. I think if they are going to show them in court, than they should show ALL of them. I have this strong sense of fair play which is why I was on the fence about Terri for a while. I now believe that Terri is involved, but I also believe that evidence needs to be presented in its entirety.

Do you know that the text of the account holder's record can be changed?  Not saying that happened in this case; but it's an interesting piece of information to know.

You will have to enlighten me Puzzler. I never text, I do not have the patience for it. What do you mean the text of the account holders record?

[Shell]

I keep thinking about Kaine's attorney wanting Medical records. I guess it is fair to assume that they are Terri's. I wonder if Terri has a diagnosed mental condition? One that she takes medication for? If so, you would think that it would have been "leaked". On the other hand, if Terri was on some sort of prescription medication and was mixing these drugs with alcohol, well, that would leave Kaine in a precarious situation with regards to allowing his children in her care. I don't know, Terri's actions almost scream mental disorder. She is either guilty as sin or she is not right in the head mentally. I got chills reading those texts. In fairness, as Puzzler pointed out, there may have been more to the texts that we have not seen. I thought it was really really odd how Terri jumped into the sex talk so soon. Maybe there are many more texts?

Sebastian - I thought it jumped into sexting really quicky, too.  What led up to the sexting?  Even if you're someone that has done that a lot, I'd still expect to see a few sentences leading up to it.  The sexting exhibit is a "portion" of all the texting.  It's obvious that all is not there - more before and more after...don't remember "exact words" now, but at the very end there was a cut off sentence that I remember wishing I knew what the rest of the sentence said.

I remember when reading them, some of the sentences seemed like they were cut off. I do believe that there are more texts. I think if they are going to show them in court, than they should show ALL of them. I have this strong sense of fair play which is why I was on the fence about Terri for a while. I now believe that Terri is involved, but I also believe that evidence needs to be presented in its entirety.

I think the sexting will be presented in its entirety at the trial. I did see a few sentences leading up to it. It seemed to me, TH was the one leading things. Manipulative=Terri. And...I think her type of personality would spend money like there was no tomorrow and diss Kaine whenever she could.

[Puzzler]

I think the MFH sting was botched from the get go when another person showed up with the gardener/landscaper (whatever he was). TH had to report it, think about it. She smelled hinky right away. The only thing to do was report it

The other person was a DEA undercover agent.

I thought the DEA was drug enforcement? Do they usually get involved in these situations?

It is drug enforcement.  Who knows?  Maybe this guy was used because he was someone Terri wouldn't recognize.  Maybe RS is involved in drugs and he's telling LE what they want to hear to save his skin...all conjecture.  No telling what was really going on at that time.

[Shell]

I think the MFH sting was botched from the get go when another person showed up with the gardener/landscaper (whatever he was). TH had to report it, think about it. She smelled hinky right away. The only thing to do was report it

The other person was a DEA undercover agent.

I thought the DEA was drug enforcement? Do they usually get involved in these situations?

It is drug enforcement.  Who knows?  Maybe this guy was used because he was someone Terri wouldn't recognize.  Maybe RS is involved in drugs and he's telling LE what they want to hear to save his skin...all conjecture.  No telling what was really going on at that time.

How do you know it was DEA?

[Puzzler]

I keep thinking about Kaine's attorney wanting Medical records. I guess it is fair to assume that they are Terri's. I wonder if Terri has a diagnosed mental condition? One that she takes medication for? If so, you would think that it would have been "leaked". On the other hand, if Terri was on some sort of prescription medication and was mixing these drugs with alcohol, well, that would leave Kaine in a precarious situation with regards to allowing his children in her care. I don't know, Terri's actions almost scream mental disorder. She is either guilty as sin or she is not right in the head mentally. I got chills reading those texts. In fairness, as Puzzler pointed out, there may have been more to the texts that we have not seen. I thought it was really really odd how Terri jumped into the sex talk so soon. Maybe there are many more texts?

Sebastian - I thought it jumped into sexting really quicky, too.  What led up to the sexting?  Even if you're someone that has done that a lot, I'd still expect to see a few sentences leading up to it.  The sexting exhibit is a "portion" of all the texting.  It's obvious that all is not there - more before and more after...don't remember "exact words" now, but at the very end there was a cut off sentence that I remember wishing I knew what the rest of the sentence said.

I remember when reading them, some of the sentences seemed like they were cut off. I do believe that there are more texts. I think if they are going to show them in court, than they should show ALL of them. I have this strong sense of fair play which is why I was on the fence about Terri for a while. I now believe that Terri is involved, but I also believe that evidence needs to be presented in its entirety.

Do you know that the text of the account holder's record can be changed?  Not saying that happened in this case; but it's an interesting piece of information to know.

You will have to enlighten me Puzzler. I never text, I do not have the patience for it. What do you mean the text of the account holders record?

There are different records:  account holder record - records available to the account holder - in this case the account holder is Kaine.  Carrier records - records of the texting produced by the carrier - usually up a court order.  According to Blink's article, the carrier records produced look differently than the account holder records. 

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/
(Snip)
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.

Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.    (Snip)

[Puzzler]

I think the MFH sting was botched from the get go when another person showed up with the gardener/landscaper (whatever he was). TH had to report it, think about it. She smelled hinky right away. The only thing to do was report it

The other person was a DEA undercover agent.

I thought the DEA was drug enforcement? Do they usually get involved in these situations?

It is drug enforcement.  Who knows?  Maybe this guy was used because he was someone Terri wouldn't recognize.  Maybe RS is involved in drugs and he's telling LE what they want to hear to save his skin...all conjecture.  No telling what was really going on at that time.

How do you know it was DEA?

Aww...geesh...I just read it again the other night...do not have a link, sorry.

[sebastian]

This is all going over my head. It is late and my brain starts fizzling at this hour  . What occurs to me is that if you need someones permission to record their phone conversation, how could Kaine and Cook record Terri's sexts without her permission and then submit said texts to a court of law?

[Puzzler]

I think the MFH sting was botched from the get go when another person showed up with the gardener/landscaper (whatever he was). TH had to report it, think about it. She smelled hinky right away. The only thing to do was report it

The other person was a DEA undercover agent.

I thought the DEA was drug enforcement? Do they usually get involved in these situations?

It is drug enforcement.  Who knows?  Maybe this guy was used because he was someone Terri wouldn't recognize.  Maybe RS is involved in drugs and he's telling LE what they want to hear to save his skin...all conjecture.  No telling what was really going on at that time.

How do you know it was DEA?

Aww...geesh...I just read it again the other night...do not have a link, sorry.

Shell -

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8553.0

Re: Rudy Sanchez alleged murder for hire
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 10:30:43 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodolfo “Rudy” Estrada Sanchez
http://blinkoncrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Sanchez_201.jpghttp://blinkoncrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Sanchez_201.jpg
Rudy is the owner of RS Landscape Maintenance and the alleged former landscaper/ love interest of Terri Horman. He is also the man who says Terri Horman asked him to murder her husband Kaine late last year. Investigators clearly believed his story as it was the basis for an attempted sting on June 26th by MCSO including an undercover DEA agent. Sanchez, wearing a wire, demanded a $10,000 payment from Horman for services rendered, except Kaine was very much alive. As the information gleaned from Sanchez provided to Kaine Horman indicates this alleged “contract”discussion with his wife happened over 7 months ago, it is unclear what the payment demand could actually be for. Sanchez testified before the grand jury on August 4. While the content of his testimony is secret, the fact that whatever he testified to outside of pleading the “On the advice of counsel I plead the 5th and hereby assert all of it’s protections.” grants him a level of immunity, in addition to whatever he may or may not have already been granted by the District Attorney.
When reached at one of the numbers records show is billed in his brothers name, Jaime Estrada Sanchez, who uses the name Jaime Estrada on his carpet cleaning business website declined to comment to blinkoncrime.com and the number has since been disconnected.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a close family friend who has since been interviewed by the FBI, has confirmed that Terri Horman is pointing her finger directly at Sanchez. She has also stated that she and Sanchez had an altercation after she attempted to end their relationship in May which ended in a 911 call and a visit from Clackamas County Sheriff Office in the presence of Sanchez’s wife and children. While it did not result in any charges, Horman told the source that the landscaper was furious with her because he is not in the US legally. While blinkoncrime.com has not been able to verify the date of the alleged 911 call, we have been able to verify that Terri called her Mother immediately following the incident and told her that Kaine had found out about the landscaper she hired to do what she referred to as “her yardwork” and when she informed him that she could no longer use him because Kaine was making her fire him, he lunged at her with Kiara in her arms. Kaine Horman denies the couple ever hired the landscaper as well as any previous information as to his estranged wife’s possible dealings with Sanchez.
It should be noted that Mr. Sanchez has not been charged with any crime in this matter and local references to his business are highly complimentary. In fact, Jean Ann Van Krevelen a friend and “mentor” of Dede Spicher has used RS Landscape Maintenance on a few occasions, leaving positive reviews on the ServiceMaster listing which deleted his business from the site on 6/21/10. Heather Walters, owner of Rosemont Farm,which is not West Wind Farm, where Dede Spicher was working the morning of June 4th and out of reach by phone from approximately 90 minutes, has never met Terri Horman or heard of their family prior to Kyron’s disappearance. When I asked her if she knew Rudy Sanchez or if she ever hired his firm to work at WWF, she replied “not that I recall, no, but we did have a blackberry clean up a few years ago so it is possible.”

[sebastian]

I think the MFH sting was botched from the get go when another person showed up with the gardener/landscaper (whatever he was). TH had to report it, think about it. She smelled hinky right away. The only thing to do was report it

The other person was a DEA undercover agent.

I thought the DEA was drug enforcement? Do they usually get involved in these situations?

It is drug enforcement.  Who knows?  Maybe this guy was used because he was someone Terri wouldn't recognize.  Maybe RS is involved in drugs and he's telling LE what they want to hear to save his skin...all conjecture.  No telling what was really going on at that time.

How do you know it was DEA?

Aww...geesh...I just read it again the other night...do not have a link, sorry.

Shell -

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8553.0

Re: Rudy Sanchez alleged murder for hire
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 10:30:43 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodolfo “Rudy” Estrada Sanchez
http://blinkoncrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Sanchez_201.jpghttp://blinkoncrime.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Sanchez_201.jpg
Rudy is the owner of RS Landscape Maintenance and the alleged former landscaper/ love interest of Terri Horman. He is also the man who says Terri Horman asked him to murder her husband Kaine late last year. Investigators clearly believed his story as it was the basis for an attempted sting on June 26th by MCSO including an undercover DEA agent. Sanchez, wearing a wire, demanded a $10,000 payment from Horman for services rendered, except Kaine was very much alive. As the information gleaned from Sanchez provided to Kaine Horman indicates this alleged “contract”discussion with his wife happened over 7 months ago, it is unclear what the payment demand could actually be for. Sanchez testified before the grand jury on August 4. While the content of his testimony is secret, the fact that whatever he testified to outside of pleading the “On the advice of counsel I plead the 5th and hereby assert all of it’s protections.” grants him a level of immunity, in addition to whatever he may or may not have already been granted by the District Attorney.
When reached at one of the numbers records show is billed in his brothers name, Jaime Estrada Sanchez, who uses the name Jaime Estrada on his carpet cleaning business website declined to comment to blinkoncrime.com and the number has since been disconnected.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a close family friend who has since been interviewed by the FBI, has confirmed that Terri Horman is pointing her finger directly at Sanchez. She has also stated that she and Sanchez had an altercation after she attempted to end their relationship in May which ended in a 911 call and a visit from Clackamas County Sheriff Office in the presence of Sanchez’s wife and children. While it did not result in any charges, Horman told the source that the landscaper was furious with her because he is not in the US legally. While blinkoncrime.com has not been able to verify the date of the alleged 911 call, we have been able to verify that Terri called her Mother immediately following the incident and told her that Kaine had found out about the landscaper she hired to do what she referred to as “her yardwork” and when she informed him that she could no longer use him because Kaine was making her fire him, he lunged at her with Kiara in her arms. Kaine Horman denies the couple ever hired the landscaper as well as any previous information as to his estranged wife’s possible dealings with Sanchez.
It should be noted that Mr. Sanchez has not been charged with any crime in this matter and local references to his business are highly complimentary. In fact, Jean Ann Van Krevelen a friend and “mentor” of Dede Spicher has used RS Landscape Maintenance on a few occasions, leaving positive reviews on the ServiceMaster listing which deleted his business from the site on 6/21/10. Heather Walters, owner of Rosemont Farm,which is not West Wind Farm, where Dede Spicher was working the morning of June 4th and out of reach by phone from approximately 90 minutes, has never met Terri Horman or heard of their family prior to Kyron’s disappearance. When I asked her if she knew Rudy Sanchez or if she ever hired his firm to work at WWF, she replied “not that I recall, no, but we did have a blackberry clean up a few years ago so it is possible.”

I wonder if DeDe referred RS to Terri in the first place?

[Tracygirl]

Yes, I came back before going to bed.

I don't believe for one moment that it was a set up. She did it because that's what she does. To look further into that theory is a waste of time, IMO.

Truly off to bed now. GN Monkeys.

The sexting, within one week of losing her baby girl, and only 1 month after Ky's going poof, is what finally shoved me right off the fence.  Any normal mother would have been beside herself, trying to put herself in the best possible light at that time, to convince the powers that be that she was an upright person.  Nobody in their right mind would have done something like that.  I don't care if she was drinking or not.  Just not acceptable.

Yep nobody in their right mind. I think people are comparing a normal person up against someone who was said, by Kaine, to have a drinking problem, suffered from depression and god knows what else. Terri seems to be a woman who is very insecure and very troubled. You have to think of her as such. (not saying insane)

[Shell]

This is all going over my head. It is late and my brain starts fizzling at this hour  . What occurs to me is that if you need someones permission to record their phone conversation, how could Kaine and Cook record Terri's sexts without her permission and then submit said texts to a court of law?

Just my opinion..but I think* it was TH and Cook

[Tracygirl]

Yes, I came back before going to bed.

I don't believe for one moment that it was a set up. She did it because that's what she does. To look further into that theory is a waste of time, IMO.

Truly off to bed now. GN Monkeys.

Curiosity questions:

Why do you think that MC would have been using Kaine's phone? 

Could that have been so there would be an easily accessible record of the texting? 

Is there a possibility that MC was not the one using the phone?

Is there a possiblity that MC was not alone on his end when the texting was being done? 

These questions and more is why I think the texts will be thrown out.