Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #40 1/01/11 - 1/18/11

[Gypsy DD]

I hate when people say, "Can I have the link to that?"

But where is the link that an attorney contacted TH?

I cannot imagine why a prominent respected attorney would ever contact anyone.

I always have heard the term"ambulance chaser."

I cannot see Houze in that light at all.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/terri_moulton_horman_retains_p.html

Terri Moulton Horman has retained prominent Portland criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze as investigators continue to focus on her in the nearly monthlong disappearance of her stepson, Kyron Horman.

http://www.katu.com/news/97546039.html
This article gives interesting list of some of House's past cases.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Legal-Sources-Terri-Horman-Hires-Attorney-Stephen-Houze-97555704.html    According to the reporter in this video Terri "appeared" to be looking for a lawyer for days before Houze responded to her and she retained him on the Monday/Tuesday following the weekend of the failed sting on the alledged MFH, RO/Divorce filing.______________________________________

That's what I get; she retained him. I like links so thought I'd post a few. 

JMO - Houze may say he hunted her down or whatever suits his needs at any given time pending his political investment or personal interest gain at any time.  He is a lawyer after all...

BBM

I think everyone has missed the true essence of what I bolded above from FCL's post:

Everyone was concerned about rather or not Terri hired an attorney that was the best. 
Then how she paid for him.

Me..I am much more concerned that she was looking for an attorney and had contacted several..prior to the failed MFH sting, Kaine and Kiara leaving..Houze did not sign on until that Monday or Tuesday after that weekend.....hmmm...but Terri had put out feelers well before then..to me that says she knew she was on the radar..she knew she had issues with the poly, she knew she was in a bad situation...she knew before the sting, before Kaine left she needed her own attorney.  Interesting  to me..very interesting.

[klaasend]

I agree that Kaine has a legal right to know if Terri is paying for the lawyer out of any marital assets, in the same right, Terri has a right to know how Kaine is paying for his divorce lawyer and if it is coming out of any marital assets. I am sure he has disclosed that to her because he is asking for her response, and it sounds as though Terri's will be disclosing that as well. 

You know this is all of the divorce stuff really. I don't see how it has anything to do with anything. imo of course.

ITA~it's the one thing I actually know for certain, so I thought I'd post the info for anyone else as I see it is also posted on Blink's site as to how it would be classified.

Also remember in many divorce cases where you have a father that has worked for dozens of yrs and a stay home wife, a judge will many times order the husband to pay her atty fees and that is not considered a gift, just a term of the divorce.

Do you seriously believe that any judge would order Kaine to pay Terri's legal fees when according to LE she hired someone to kill him?  Sorry, not happening.  Same reason it was a pretty easy decision regarding custody of Kiara. 

[Tamikosmom]

I do not have a link handy but ... I read that Kaine made well more than $100,000 a year. 

Kaine Horman is an Intel engineer who made $90,000 back in 2002, according to court records.

http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/

Thanks

I know I have read somewhere what Kaine's current salary is.  I think it may have been in one of the documents.  I could be wrong.

Janet

[Tracygirl]

I agree that Kaine has a legal right to know if Terri is paying for the lawyer out of any marital assets, in the same right, Terri has a right to know how Kaine is paying for his divorce lawyer and if it is coming out of any marital assets. I am sure he has disclosed that to her because he is asking for her response, and it sounds as though Terri's will be disclosing that as well. 

You know this is all of the divorce stuff really. I don't see how it has anything to do with anything. imo of course.

ITA~it's the one thing I actually know for certain, so I thought I'd post the info for anyone else as I see it is also posted on Blink's site as to how it would be classified.

Also remember in many divorce cases where you have a father that has worked for dozens of yrs and a stay home wife, a judge will many times order the husband to pay her atty fees and that is not considered a gift, just a term of the divorce.

Do you seriously believe that any judge would order Kaine to pay Terri's legal fees when according to LE she hired someone to kill him?  Sorry, not happening.  Same reason it was a pretty easy decision regarding custody of Kiara. 

I could see the judge asking Kaine to pay for the divorce attorney fees or have it come out of the marital assets, not the criminal attorneys fees though which the MFH plot would fall under. Terri would have to ask for that, and I am not sure she did?

[sassifrass]

What if the attorney fee's were set up in a trust account? It would be totally different.

Anyway, I don't think I'm helping this thread or Kyron. I'm jetting off. Good luck Monkeys.Also, sorry if I offended anyone in this thread. I truly just wanted to help. God bless and good luck to you all. 

[yuknomenot]

Something is wrong with the thought processes of Oregon lawmakers, IMO 

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/01/oregon_supreme_court_rules_that_simply_viewing_child_pornography_on_the_internet_isnt_illegal.html

"The Oregon Supreme Court ruled today that it’s not a crime to look at child pornography while surfing the Internet if none of the images are purposefully downloaded, printed out or paid for."

[islandmonkey]

I hope the IRS will be looking at where TH got that kind of money.

No, her parents cannot pay her bill and bypass the IRS laws.  It is a gift as the layer is not the parent's legal obligation but rather TH's.It is illegal to try to dodge the IRS in those ways.

So your saying if Terri's parents gave her the money to pay for the attorney, she must claim that on her income taxes?  I am not sure. Is there any tax people on here who can answer what the IRS tax code says about gifts of money used for legal bills? Does the money terri's parents supposedly gave to the lawyer count as income for Terri?

Totally the opposite, the one who gives the gift can give away the max allowable under IRS regulations and then when they exceed it they are the ones taxed not the one that rec'd the gift. It's this way so those with large estates can't gift everythhing to their heirs in order to avoid the death tax. I know back when I was giftind money to my kids *longgggggg time ago* the max was 10,000 a yr and now I think it's a bit higher, but IF I had the money I could give the max amount to 1000's of ppl, it is again only when that is exceeded that the donor is taxed.

Also, I am not sure of what the IRS regs are on paying bills rather than a gift ? I know you can pay anyone's bills for them, been there done that and had help from otherss when I needed it so I don't know the answer as it could have changed since I was paying bills for others.

IM I believe you are wrong.  Say I'm Terri's parents.  I have to pay taxes on whatever my income is no matter how much money I give away UNLESS it is a charitable donation.  Terri would not be considered a charitable donation.  The person who receives the money (no matter if they are related or not) will have to pay income taxes on anything over the allowable amount which was $13k per parent the last I checked or $26k.

You are exactly right on that Klass..I do the taxes for our family.  I know that if my mother gifts more then the allowed amount..it changes each year, to our son..he needs to pay the gift tax on it.  She also has financial advisers who tell her how much she can gift each year without anyone having to pay taxes on that amount.  Believe..$350 K does not fall into the category of free money to anyone in any situation..someone ..Terri..will need to pay taxes on that amount.  However..I am not sure the true retainer was actually $350K..more then likely Hauze started with a 10 % retainer.then as the case evolves he gets more.  Bunch, however would need his own payments.  I think that she will have to divulge her assetts, all of them, including unemployment to the IRS for 2010...that includes any gifts or offsets from her parents.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your stmt......but gift taxes are extremely confusing and if your financial advisor it giving you this information pertaining to the taxable event of going over the max of for a yr or the max lifetime exclusion. I am a licensed financial planner and know the donor pays unless it meets the parameters, and then if it falls within them it is not a taxable transaction, but a 709 has to be filled out

Who Pays the Gift Tax?
The person who makes the gift is the one who is responsible for paying any gift tax that may be due and reporting the gift to the IRS on a gift tax return - IRS Form 709, United States Gift (and Generation-Skipping Transfer) Tax Return. The gift tax return and any gift tax that may be owed are due on or before April 15 of the year following the year in which the taxable gift was made.

For the recipient of the gift there won't be any immediate income tax consequences since the gift won't be included as part of the recipient's taxable income. However, the recipient may incur capital gains tax when the gifted property is later sold because of the income tax basis that the recipient will receive in the gifted property.[/u]

-----------------------------------------------

Another link that is more user friendly.....

If a person gives away more than the annual exclusion to another person (not a charity) in a tax year, that is a lifetime gift. After making such a gift, the gift giver is responsible for filing a Form 709 declaring that gift and keeping a running, lifetime total of the lifetime exclusion used. As long as the exclusion is below the maximum, no gift tax is due. Once the exclusion reaches the maximum, the donor calculates the tax due with Form 709 and attaches a check (payable to the United States Treasury


Not trying to be nitpickey but I hope to educate people on this as obviously there is a huge amount of misunderstanding. Now, if you aren't talking about gifting money that is totally different.

http://invest-faq.com/articles/tax-estate-gift.html

[islandmonkey]

I agree that Kaine has a legal right to know if Terri is paying for the lawyer out of any marital assets, in the same right, Terri has a right to know how Kaine is paying for his divorce lawyer and if it is coming out of any marital assets. I am sure he has disclosed that to her because he is asking for her response, and it sounds as though Terri's will be disclosing that as well. 

You know this is all of the divorce stuff really. I don't see how it has anything to do with anything. imo of course.

ITA~it's the one thing I actually know for certain, so I thought I'd post the info for anyone else as I see it is also posted on Blink's site as to how it would be classified.

Also remember in many divorce cases where you have a father that has worked for dozens of yrs and a stay home wife, a judge will many times order the husband to pay her atty fees and that is not considered a gift, just a term of the divorce.

Do you seriously believe that any judge would order Kaine to pay Terri's legal fees when according to LE she hired someone to kill him?  Sorry, not happening.  Same reason it was a pretty easy decision regarding custody of Kiara. 

 NO!!!!! I was explaining again about how atty's can be paid and it not be a gift that is taxable..... I don't think I ever stated Kaine would be asked to pay this, I was talking about men who are married for over 10+ yrs, and had a wife that was soley a stay home mom taking care of the kids etc.... (for instance the man I work with had to pay 200,000 in his wife's atty's fees and 10m a month in alimony) He is also considering money to Costa Rica

[Tracygirl]

I hate when people say, "Can I have the link to that?"

But where is the link that an attorney contacted TH?

I cannot imagine why a prominent respected attorney would ever contact anyone.

I always have heard the term"ambulance chaser."

I cannot see Houze in that light at all.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/terri_moulton_horman_retains_p.html

Terri Moulton Horman has retained prominent Portland criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze as investigators continue to focus on her in the nearly monthlong disappearance of her stepson, Kyron Horman.

http://www.katu.com/news/97546039.html
This article gives interesting list of some of House's past cases.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Legal-Sources-Terri-Horman-Hires-Attorney-Stephen-Houze-97555704.html    According to the reporter in this video Terri "appeared" to be looking for a lawyer for days before Houze responded to her and she retained him on the Monday/Tuesday following the weekend of the failed sting on the alledged MFH, RO/Divorce filing.______________________________________

That's what I get; she retained him. I like links so thought I'd post a few. 

JMO - Houze may say he hunted her down or whatever suits his needs at any given time pending his political investment or personal interest gain at any time.  He is a lawyer after all...

BBM

I think everyone has missed the true essence of what I bolded above from FCL's post:

Everyone was concerned about rather or not Terri hired an attorney that was the best. 
Then how she paid for him.

Me..I am much more concerned that she was looking for an attorney and had contacted several..prior to the failed MFH sting, Kaine and Kiara leaving..Houze did not sign on until that Monday or Tuesday after that weekend.....hmmm...but Terri had put out feelers well before then..to me that says she knew she was on the radar..she knew she had issues with the poly, she knew she was in a bad situation...she knew before the sting, before Kaine left she needed her own attorney.  Interesting  to me..very interesting.

This is how I take it Gypsy DD, again thinking differently,  she retained the lawyer on Wednesday June 30th according to many articles, the sting was on Saturday June 26th, that is 5 days, 3 business days, the article said she appeared to be looking for a lawyer for days, not specifying what he meant by days but I would gather if it was more then 7 he would say a week, if more then 14 he would say weeks.  I have no doubt that on Monday morning Terri tried to get a lawyer, if not first thing Sunday Morning. jmo

[klaasend]

The tax thing is a mute issue and really has nothing to do with Kyron.  I suggest we move on from the tax discussion. 

I don't think a divorce judge would order Kaine to pay Terri's fees under these circumstances.

[islandmonkey]

The tax thing is a mute issue and really has nothing to do with Kyron.  I suggest we move on from the tax discussion. 

I don't think a divorce judge would order Kaine to pay Terri's fees under these circumstances.

I agree, but when it's posted as fact I thought I'd clarify........I don't think the judge would eitherm I am talking about in more your normal divorce case when the wife has stayed home in order for the husband to pursue a career, I see it all the time .....huge fees that do nothing but deplete the bank accounts of the parents and sometimes destroy the college fund of the kids.

[fatcatlurker]

I hate when people say, "Can I have the link to that?"

But where is the link that an attorney contacted TH?

I cannot imagine why a prominent respected attorney would ever contact anyone.

I always have heard the term"ambulance chaser."

I cannot see Houze in that light at all.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/terri_moulton_horman_retains_p.html

Terri Moulton Horman has retained prominent Portland criminal defense attorney Stephen Houze as investigators continue to focus on her in the nearly monthlong disappearance of her stepson, Kyron Horman.

http://www.katu.com/news/97546039.html
This article gives interesting list of some of House's past cases.

http://www.kgw.com/home/Legal-Sources-Terri-Horman-Hires-Attorney-Stephen-Houze-97555704.html    According to the reporter in this video Terri "appeared" to be looking for a lawyer for days before Houze responded to her and she retained him on the Monday/Tuesday following the weekend of the failed sting on the alledged MFH, RO/Divorce filing.______________________________________

That's what I get; she retained him. I like links so thought I'd post a few. 

JMO - Houze may say he hunted her down or whatever suits his needs at any given time pending his political investment or personal interest gain at any time.  He is a lawyer after all...

BBM

I think everyone has missed the true essence of what I bolded above from FCL's post:

Everyone was concerned about rather or not Terri hired an attorney that was the best. 
Then how she paid for him.

Me..I am much more concerned that she was looking for an attorney and had contacted several..prior to the failed MFH sting, Kaine and Kiara leaving..Houze did not sign on until that Monday or Tuesday after that weekend.....hmmm...but Terri had put out feelers well before then..to me that says she knew she was on the radar..she knew she had issues with the poly, she knew she was in a bad situation...she knew before the sting, before Kaine left she needed her own attorney.  Interesting  to me..very interesting.

Gypsy DD very interesting is right on.  I think she clearly knew she could no longer go on with no representation at that point; 2 failed LDT's, LE's grilling her 5 times in one day, than I believe for 5 hr time periods there after? in addition to the failed sting for alledged MFH plot.  JMO.

To ALL;

I believe in one having the right to the best attorney money can buy and one's right to remain silent without question. JMO.

I also believe that the one taking liberty of these rights had also better be able to withstand the right of the public to question there need for requiring that very right to/and within the full extent allowed by law. JMO.

It's all on the table and up for discussion IMO.  Every aspect of the legal case is a hint/inkling of the goings on of both parties.  Looking at all of it gives us the picture of the true motives of Kaine and Terri in regards to KYRON.
_______________________________________________________________________

I would expect no less if I or anyone I knew were in her shoes.  They may say Silence is Golden but in a potential criminal case it makes a whole different statement in my mind.  ALL respectfully IMO.   

[Wyks]

Something is wrong with the thought processes of Oregon lawmakers, IMO 

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/01/oregon_supreme_court_rules_that_simply_viewing_child_pornography_on_the_internet_isnt_illegal.html

"The Oregon Supreme Court ruled today that it’s not a crime to look at child pornography while surfing the Internet if none of the images are purposefully downloaded, printed out or paid for."

 

[fatcatlurker]

What if the attorney fee's were set up in a trust account? It would be totally different.

Anyway, I don't think I'm helping this thread or Kyron. I'm jetting off. Good luck Monkeys.Also, sorry if I offended anyone in this thread. I truly just wanted to help. God bless and good luck to you all. 

Sassifrass you don't offend me.  I hope you will pop in anyway.  You are one more voice for Kyron whether you are agreed with or not.  JMO.  Sometimes I take breaks or I will break and we will not solve the case but just by being here I think we are letting it be known that Kyron is not forgotten. Anyway I hope to see you back again.

[hellokitty]

Something is wrong with the thought processes of Oregon lawmakers, IMO 

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/01/oregon_supreme_court_rules_that_simply_viewing_child_pornography_on_the_internet_isnt_illegal.html

"The Oregon Supreme Court ruled today that it’s not a crime to look at child pornography while surfing the Internet if none of the images are purposefully downloaded, printed out or paid for."

 

I don't get the technicalities of this, so I hope that there is info that I am not getting here.  I hope it's a sensational story and not really accurate as to what it seems like it is saying.  That viewing child pron is OK if you don't pay for it or print it or download it 

There has to be more to this story that I am not getting.  There has to be !


 

[monchichi]

Something is wrong with the thought processes of Oregon lawmakers, IMO 

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/01/oregon_supreme_court_rules_that_simply_viewing_child_pornography_on_the_internet_isnt_illegal.html

"The Oregon Supreme Court ruled today that it’s not a crime to look at child pornography while surfing the Internet if none of the images are purposefully downloaded, printed out or paid for."

Ugh.  Really???? 

Oh wait, it says "Purposefully downloaded" so to me that means, if I search for something innocent enough and child porn pops up on my screen, then I am not commiting a crime. because I did not purposefully search for it.  Did I get that right?

[islandmonkey]

GRRRRRRRRRR ~Watching the A & M game vs LSU for a break but it is more stressfull than the case

Does anyone know when the divorce hearing has been rescheduled , or if it even has been??

TIA

[Tamikosmom]

GRRRRRRRRRR ~Watching the A & M game vs LSU for a break but it is more stressfull than the case

Does anyone know when the divorce hearing has been rescheduled , or if it even has been??

TIA

Scheduled hearing in pending Horman divorce case is postponed, court staff say
Published: Monday, January 03, 2011, 7:59 PM
Updated: Monday, January 03, 2011, 8:16 PM

A hearing that had been scheduled for this week in the pending divorce case between Kaine Horman and Terri Moulton Horman has been postponed. A new date has not been set.

Kaine Horman, the father of missing Kyron Horman, filed for divorce shortly after his son disappeared from Skyline School June 4 and law enforcement authorities informed him they had learned that his wife allegedly had tried to solicit a landscaper to kill him about six months before Kyron's disappearance.

In October, Terri Horman's lawyers convinced a judge to delay the divorce proceedings for 90 days, arguing that the divorce case should not continue while an ongoing criminal investigation proceeds into Kyron's disappearance.

Terri Horman's divorce attorney Peter Bunch argued that a parallel civil divorce case, while the criminal investigation proceeds into Kyron's disappearance from Skyline School, would jeopardize Terri Horman's Fifth Amendment rights not to incriminate herself. Bunch argued that law enforcement are trying to obtain discovery through the civil proceeding for the ongoing criminal case.

Multnomah County Judge Keith Meisenheimer ruled in October that there's "substantial overlap of evidence" between the divorce case and the criminal inquiry and parallel proceedings could create a discovery nightmare. But he said he also had to balance Terri Horman's constitutional rights with Kaine Horman's right to a prompt resolution of custody, parenting, property and financial matters.

Kyron has not been found, and no arrests have been made. Law enforcement , though, has intently focused on Terri Horman, Kyron's stepmother, who was the last person to have seen Kyron at the school. She had taken him to school early that morning for a science fair, and told authorities she last saw him about 8:45 a.m. walking to his classroom.

The boy never made it to his classroom, but wasn't reported missing until after he didn't return home by school bus that afternoon.

Meisenheimer's staff have given the attorneys involved in the civil case potential dates - up to three months out - to reschedule the hearing.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/01/post_53.html

[Tracygirl]

I think it really depends on if the court will consider the MFH due to the fact she has not been charged and the court has to view her as innocent until proved guilty per our constitution. 

Can anyone with legal experience answer this question,  Does a spouse forfit their right to property division if they are suspected of criminal behavior against the other? I would be interested what case law there is about this. I would think they still are entitled to the property division if suspected and even if charged and convicted of the crime. Any legal eagles out there that can answer the question?

[hellokitty]

 

I hope that she can't get a thing if she is convicted.  Wouldn't that be the ultimate in a cosmic slap in the face for Kaine and Kyron.