Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #42 2/07/11 - 5/23/11

[sassifrass]

And although I participated, I need to remind everyone to stay on topic in the MP threads please

Sorry Klaas. I thought I included the DY in Roseburg topic. Sometimes I just don't know what is right and what isn't.

I'm slinking back to lurking.

[Grey]

Grey, I see you up there lurking. Good to see you back. 

Hi, sassifrass. Stopped in to see if anything is happening. The only big news seems to be bad line breaks.
 

Haha! Cute! But not the most newsworthy enlightenment in this thread.    Did you see the DY focus in Roseburg?

Hope to see you coming back. Always liked your spitfire thoughts.

Yeah, Mama Bear Desiree keeps her target in sight. She did a good job of making someone uncomfortable. Great idea and very effective, but I hope no one takes it too far.

Don't know if I'll stay around. Last time I was here there was a campaign started to trash everything about Kaine. Just tired of the constant trashing of anybody whose name came up, especially that of a victim.

Hope you solve your line-break problem. If my solution doesn't work, maybe it is something similar.

Take care.

[Grey]

And although I participated, I need to remind everyone to stay on topic in the MP threads please

Sorry. Thought I had a solution to a problem.

[sassifrass]

On second thought, and I'm saying this because I'm dog gone tired; when did SM get so policed about a few post' being off topic? As long as it contains something topic related, I thought it was O.K. I just don't get it.

If you want to ban me for this comment, then do so. I just want balance. I try to bring something fresh to the thread when no knew info is out there.

I just don't get it Klaas. There was movement in this thread, finally, and a few post' off topic, but I try to mix topic related info within the post also.

Sorry, feeling a bit flustered right now.

[klaasend]

Wow I slap my own hand for being off topic and you guys get upset.  It was a reminder to ME and everyone that we want to stay on topic.

We are trying to keep things on topic because there are some people that tend to be off topic all the time.

[Tracygirl]

Still praying for you to be found and brought home.  Where are you Kyron?

[Puzzler]

So, I wanted to look at Mr. Houze, in relation to the Kyron investigation, and how he may effect the case. I
was curious as to why he is called a "heavy hitter attorney" and the reason  LE is so adament about
covering all bases. Why do prosecuters fear Mr. Houze? So, I went searching to see exactly why Mr.
Houze has this reputation, and what his patterns seem to be, defending a person charged with,or
suspected of a crime , whether it be a defacto POI or a publically announced POI. After reading, I can
surely understand why this case is taking so long to make an arrest.

If the DA has enough evidence to have TH arrested and charged, Mr. Houze is going to be one formidable
opponent.

http://www.shouze.com/display-cases.asp?artID=2

<snipped paragraphs>

Principles over profit

Those who know him well -- attorneys, prosecutors, judges and private investigators -- say he's a complex
man: highly principled, intelligent, and driven by a ferocious energy that intimidates his adversaries in the
courtroom.

""He believes in people,"" Jensen says. ""He had the ability to see the good in someone that I didn't see. .
. . It changed my opinion of defense attorneys."

The 'tenacious adversary'

"He's got one speed -- fast forward,"" says Jim Hennings, who hired the 26-year-old Houze straight out of
Vanderbilt University Law School in 1972 to work at the fledgling Metropolitan Public Defender's office.
"He doesn't burn out -- he's always refreshed and enthused."

Houze's first big case was defending an accused killer in a trial that rocked the Northwest because of the
brutality of the crime. A couple and the two young boys they were babysitting were bludgeoned to death
with a hammer in March 1974. Three of the victims were bloodily slain in their beds in a quiet southeast
Portland home. Colin Hockings, a 30-year-old Native American shipping clerk, was Houze's client.
The jury convicted Hockings and he was sentenced to four life terms in prison. "Houze was very, very good. A tenacious adversary."

Courtroom strategies

Stephen Houze, in charcoal pinstripes, adjusts the half-glasses on his nose and peers over them intently
at the young police officer he's been cross-examining. He's at a preliminary hearing held earlier this spring, and the uncomfortable witness on the stand is learning firsthand what it is like to face Houze in a courtroom. Houze's client, seated beside him in an orange-and-white jail uniform, has been accused of shooting his wife and trying to make it look like a robbery.

Houze wants to know about a sedan that was spotted on the road near the man's house that night.
"To your knowledge,"" Houze asks the officer pointedly, ""has anyone in law enforcement made any effort
to identify that vehicle, or whether it belonged to a residence in the area or to a stranger? The implication: Maybe it belonged to the real killer.

"I didn't,"" the officer says softly. Houze cups his hand to his ear as if he can't quite make out what the
officer is telling him. After a few minutes of this cat-and-mouse game, Houze glances at the clock,
switches gears. He wants to talk about how his client was treated in the early minutes of the police
investigation.

""When you took him out of the house, he had no gloves, no coat, no sweater -- what did you do to protect
him from the cold?"" Houze asks, indignantly. The implication: Police had already assumed he was the
culprit. Almost angry: ""Did anyone put pants on the man?"

Transforming disaster

"I think winning was everything he ever thought about," <snip> And what he lacked in size, he made up for
with determination. He was a scrapper, a fighter. . .. all go-go-go."

Defense lawyers, Houze decided, could turn someone's personal disaster into something noble, or at
least more hopeful.

Zealous, but no zealot

While some folks may have a hard time understanding how Houze -- or any lawyer -- could defend
someone accused of murder or paying to have sex with a child, prosecutors value what a great lawyer like
Houze brings to a case. With him, they know they've got a well-matched fight -- they don't have to pull any
punches. If they win with Houze on the other side, a conviction looks that much stronger. And without guys
like Houze, they say, the nation's adversarial system of justice couldn't exist.

Yet as skilled as Houze is in the courtroom, many of his victories play out quietly behind the scenes, where
he's known as a master negotiator and a genuinely nice guy. Not only does he know everyone who is
important to know, prosecutors are aware of Houze's unusual ability to see and capitalize on the strengths
and weaknesses in a case. That makes them especially motivated to make a deal to avoid going to trial
against him.

"He's dogged when it comes to researching things, and he zealously represents clients without being a
zealot.""

"Getting to the office is like jumping on a train moving 60 mph,"" says Chic Preston, Houze's longtime
investigator. He says he works for a man who wants to know the answers before he begins the
cross-examination. If the prosecution has a fingerprint expert, Houze has been known to bring in his own
from Scotland Yard to counter it -- as he sometimes says, ""You can't fight City Hall with a ham sandwich."

________________________________________________________________

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/print_story.php?story_id=17983

<snipped>

“Steve finds statements and witnesses and versions of events that detectives don’t always uncover,” said
Regan, who worked for Gustafson during her protracted battle with Houze and the Oregon State Bar
before she was disbarred in March 2002. “He gets a whole other side of the story. You end up looking like
your investigation wasn’t as thorough. I’ve learned how to be a better prosecutor from watching him.”

But, Regan said, preparation is not the sole secret of Houze’s success.
“He’s very adept at PR,” Regan said. “He never overhypes a defense or grandstands, but the minute he
steps in front of a microphone, he’s very much aware that he’s presenting a defense.

“I noticed this with (Hawash),” Regan continued. “He’s (Houze is) talking about how sketchy the
government’s case is. I’ve noticed over the years that he doesn’t say much when his client wouldn’t benefit
from publicity. I’m not saying he’s manipulative. I’m saying he’s intelligent: He understands the power of
persuasion.”

Sassi - TY - great post!

[Puzzler]

The next person I want to check is Chic Preston, Houze' PI, at least he was then. So far I know he is part owner of a restaurant, which is not doing so well. I don't think he is as good as he thinks he is, IMO. It's possible he has a new PI, but who knows.

Looking forward to seeing your post on Chic Preston.  The previous post said that Chic Preston was a long-time investigator with Houze.  A much of a perfectionist as Mr. Houze is, Chick Preston must be very good at investigating to have held his job with Houze for a long time.

[Puzzler]

Kyron Horman's parents still trying to keep his case in the public eye

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/03/kyron_hormans_parents_still_tr.html

[MuffyBee]

[can]

Still praying for you to be found and brought home.  Where are you Kyron?

Amen Tracy, Amen!!!   

[hellokitty]

 

I probably would want Houze as my lawyer if I was a criminal, but is it about justice or strategy?

That's what bothers me.  People get off because they have money and some canny lawyer who plays the angles.

Is this really justice?

[melisb]

Hello Kitty-I think it's both justice and strategy.  If you are someone not guilty being prosecuted you would want the very best defense you could possibly get and after read Sassi's post #470 I see he must be one of the few defense atty's held in high regard.  Now, if you are guilty you would want the very best possible to find and hunt every minute detail that could possibly be attacked, disregarded, contradicted, put to bed, appealed, sway the jury or find that one little loophole to free you.  He just happens to be the man to do it, IMO.  He believes everyone deserves a fair trial and not guilty until proven innocent.  Let's hope that secretly if he knows beyond all doubt TH is guilty he will secretly  let this woman to be convicted without it looking like he threw in the towel.  I often wondered if def atty's did just that when they had a person who they new was guilty or had been confessed to.  Hard position to be in.  I would purposefully loose every trial in that case.  Guess that is why I could never be a lawyer.  Wouldn't want to sit on a jury either cause I'm ofter too biased.  I'm in favor of the victim and I'm afraid I would let myself sit on the jury of someone like TH and help her be convicted.  OOOOHHH!  Did I say that out loud!  Yep, I did cause I want to know where little Kyron is.  I'm not saying TH is guilty either, just using her as an example!

[sassifrass]

The next person I want to check is Chic Preston, Houze' PI, at least he was then. So far I know he is part owner of a restaurant, which is not doing so well. I don't think he is as good as he thinks he is, IMO. It's possible he has a new PI, but who knows.

Looking forward to seeing your post on Chic Preston.  The previous post said that Chic Preston was a long-time investigator with Houze.  A much of a perfectionist as Mr. Houze is, Chick Preston must be very good at investigating to have held his job with Houze for a long time.

I'm working on it Puzzler and I agree. If Houze has confidence in him, he must be good.

[sassifrass]

I probably would want Houze as my lawyer if I was a criminal, but is it about justice or strategy?

That's what bothers me.  People get off because they have money and some canny lawyer who plays the angles.

Is this really justice?

HK, I think it's both. The intent is to bring justice for the victim if the DA can produce enough evidence to bring in a conviction. The strategy is the defense attorney blowing holes in the evidence, leaving reasonable doubt.

As the world saw what happened in the OJ case, even though there was an overwhelming amount of evidence, the defense attorneys created enough reasonable doubt and a plea of not guilty, was the result. This strategy, which happens often, is injustice in itself, IMO. So, even though the intent is bringing justice for the victim, the trial becomes a chess game of who can call "checkmate". Is it right? No, but it's reality.

[hellokitty]

 

the checkmate may be the reality, but I prefer justice.  If I was the victim or anyone I know was a victim, I would want justice. That's putting it personally.  But I actually want justice for everyone. 

Too bad it's turned into a travesty of justice in America.  Maybe everywhere, for all I know.  Having money has always been an advantage here, though, if one is a criminal.  Does an attorney who gets a criminal off feel good when s/he is driving that Mercedes or BMW or whatever they drive and vacationing in Mustique?

[bebecat]

When these defense attorneys actually have to go to court, they often lose, that is one hopeful thing. Even Houze lost many cases or had to plead them out. I have not been able to find too many murder cases he has won. I hope LE would be as careful no matter who the lawyer on the other side is, I am kind of tired of hearing about how they are preparing to fight this great lawyer (not meant toward anyone specific, just all over the place.)

If TH is charged, his best bet is not pleading out (not that I think TH ever would anyway), if Kyron is not found, in my opinion. There is always doubt in cases without finding the victim. But for him to represent her without her saying a word, or any attorney to do that, when it involves a child, is sickening, regardless of what the law says. I hate that people can refuse to cooperate in any kind of a missing persons case. It just shouldn't be.

[sassifrass]

the checkmate may be the reality, but I prefer justice.  If I was the victim or anyone I know was a victim, I would want justice. That's putting it personally.  But I actually want justice for everyone. 

Too bad it's turned into a travesty of justice in America.  Maybe everywhere, for all I know.  Having money has always been an advantage here, though, if one is a criminal.  Does an attorney who gets a criminal off feel good when s/he is driving that Mercedes or BMW or whatever they drive and vacationing in Mustique?

HK: I understand what you're saying, and agree. We all want the victims and their families to get justice. I'd like to believe that the REAL justice comes when the offender meets their maker. THAT, is true justice in my heart. Kyron, along with every other victim, will get justice in the end.

As far as the criminal attorneys, defending the offenders, I would like to think that many of them think their clients are innocent, but there are other attorneys, that know in their gut, that their client is guilty, and proceed on defending them. The latter attorneys, IMO, seem to have different agendas when it comes to their career path. It's about money and status.

I think there is a problem with a lot of the laws, wrt criminal prosecution. Many of the laws and practices based on referenced criminal cases that become standard, are so archaic and need to be changed, ie: throwing out evidence because of technicalities, insanity pleas, etc. The bottom line is that the crimes are getting more brutal and occurring more often, but the laws aren't changing.

[sassifrass]

A good reference article relating to child abductions. I snipped part of the article to show Kyrons age group also. A bit long, but worth the read.

<snipped paragraphs>

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Investigating+Potential+Child+Abduction+Cases.-a075959748

Investigating Potential Child Abduction Cases

MOTIVATING FACTORS

Why are children abducted? Interpretation of offender motivations and behaviors often is complicated, [5] particularly in abduction cases where children simply seem to vanish. In such cases, the ensuing investigation involves searching for both the victim and an offender who may be a parent, relative, friend, acquaintance, or total stranger. This differs from other scenarios, such as parental abductions, where the identity of the offender and sometimes the location of the abducted child are known, and the offender's motivation is more obvious. [6] Even in the most clear-cut cases, however, law enforcement may have difficulty determining exactly why the offender abducted the victim. The apprehension of the offender and a reliable confession may not even provide law enforcement with the true underlying motive. However, an accurate understanding of the behaviors and intentions of offenders who abduct   children and how these crime characteristics change as potential victims get older can provide investigators with important insights early in a developing case and allow them to use their resources more effectively.

Research and investigative experience have shown that family abductions, motivated by domestic discord and custody disputes, overwhelmingly represent the most frequent type of child abduction. Short-term, nonfamily incidents where abductors release or return children, often before anyone knows they are missing, constitute another type of child abduction. <snip> Long-term, nonfamily abductions are the least common and those that result in child homicide happen rarely. These cases frequently come to the attention of police as missing child reports and rarely result in quick resolution. Motivations for long-term, nonfamily abductions include: sexual gratification; retribution (e.g., revenge or "collecting" on an unpaid debt); financial gain (e.g., ransom or extortion extortion, in law, unlawful demanding or receiving by an officer, in his official capacity, of any property or money not legally due to him. Examples include requesting and accepting fees in excess of those allowed to him by statute or arresting a person and, with ); desire to kill (this, alone, is reported to motivate and gratify some offenders); and, maternal desire (where an offender desires to possess a child and abducts primarily newborns and infants).

Elementary and Middle School Children (6 to 14 years)

Strangers are responsible for about one-half of elementary school abductions, and acquaintances, such as neighbors, family friends, and adult associates are responsible for the rest. For middle school children, however, strangers are the most frequent offenders. The offenders in these cases often have a history of previous sexual misconduct, impulsive behaviors, violence, substance abuse, and psychiatric treatment. They usually display poor social skills and work habits, and frequently are deemed "socially incompetent." [18] Their inability to interact effectively with others may cause them to obtain victims by abduction. These individuals often reside, work in, or frequent the area where they commit their crimes, which gives them a legitimate explanation for their presence.

Most abductions of elementary school children occur in or around the victim's home, with the vast majority of the victims abducted within 1 mile of their residence. As they age, however, school-age children frequently are abducted from more distant locations such as playgrounds, shopping malls, and other areas of recreation. Disposal sites of the remains also become more distant as victim age increases. In cases where offenders kill the victims, the remains of younger school-age children generally are recovered within 1 mile of the abduction site, although some offenders dispose of their victims over 10 miles away (one-half of these victims are found more than 30 miles away). A larger number of older school-age children are recovered from distant sites. As found in other age groups, these offenders often are familiar with the disposal sites they select and typically make little attempt to hide the victim's remains. These offenders leave most remains unconcealed or superficially cover them with available mate rials--few bury their victims or conceal them in packaging materials.

Compared to the abduction of younger children, emotion-based offenses are much less common in school-age children. As found in emotion-based cases involving younger children, the sex of the victim does not appear to be a critical risk factor. Primarily, offenders are male and familiar with their victims. Victimization occurs typically in the victim's home or front yard. Similar to cases with preschoolers, profit-based offenses are extremely rare among school-age children.

[sassifrass]

This was posted on BOC:

http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/#comments

neighbor says:
March 24, 2011 at 6:21 pm

@zeus said “Is there any chance that Kyron was taken through the woods(walked, carried, or in a container) to the road near Jim Kelley’s house-which is where the white truck sightings occurred at 3 pm-June 4th and 2 am June 5th? I wonder if the person who pulled up to JK’s road at 3 pm was attempting to meet with the abductor to receive Kyron.”

Don’t know about that, but I do know that there was a K9 hit at the rail road tracks there. I also do know that the woods there were swarmed with LE during the last week that school was in session. Too many (emergency) exit doors near the woods that are open throughout the day.

___________________________________________

BBM

neighbor: I would like to know where that info came from please, because I didn't see it in the MSM that Kyrons scent was picked up at the RR tracks, near Jim Kelleys. Thanks for your Monkey help!