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Author Topic: Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland, OR #43 5/23/11 - 4/11/12  (Read 390957 times)
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sassifrass
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Where are you Kyron?


« Reply #180 on: June 05, 2011, 02:04:20 PM »

I wonder if Kaine will be so patient about his pending divorce?

Kyron is with us?  He's in our hearts?  We need to remain positive? 
http://www.katu.com/news/local/123168548.html


No, he's not with you and no amount of positivity is going to bring him home.  Hiring a kick a** PI, that might do it.  Meeting personally with witnesses willing to talk might help.  Trusting investigators with a room full of paperwork and tons of money to their name who still might need four years won't do it.  They had a school full of witnesses, friends with bat phones who are also witnesses, emails, video, pictures, and they have no idea what happened that morning?  Really?  No idea?

 

I get that until you've walked in the shoes of the parent of a missing child a person does not know how they would react.  I'm just the type of person that when a physician makes a diagnosis I google until I'm sure he's right.  More than once he has not been correct and I've figured out on my own what the correct diagnosis is (in one case my child had a brain tumor and doctor said the tics and other ailments were 'normal', thank goodness I'm tenacious and willing to think for myself)

LE can continue doing what they do but I sure as heck would be doing what I could as well to make sure my child was either found or the evidence lay bare before me so I could surmise to at least SOME degree what became of him.

Sorry for the rant.   







Amy: I totally understand your anger and disappointment in the lack of evidence found after so many agencies were involved. Not only do they not have any evidence to state a POI publicly, but they don't seem to have a clue as to where Kyron is, or even what happened that day.

Wrt hiring a PI and/or other outside sources, I agree. They should have let, a person whom shall not be named, search that property with their SAR dogs. It's just unbelievable to me.

Right now, I'm at a loss as what to say or even what to sleuth. I'm just deeply disappointed in how this whole investigation was handled.
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sassifrass
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Where are you Kyron?


« Reply #181 on: June 05, 2011, 02:06:51 PM »

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/
Kyron Horman case: 1 year since Kyron went missing
Posted on June 5, 2011 by Valhall


Thanks trim! I always enjoy reading Valhalls blogs. She's got fire and spunk.
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« Reply #182 on: June 05, 2011, 04:08:50 PM »

Amy I agree with all you said and I too am finding myself very frustrated with the whole thing. Sass I agree with you and the search dogs. I agree a pi needs to begin working on this case. The investigation so far has not uncovered anything it seems so time to start something new.

Desiree has, in my opinion, a more grounded view, I hope and pray she and Tony hires a private investigator to help. Someone with fresh eyes and no ties to the community or is within the political arena may be worth considering.

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Gypsy DD
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« Reply #183 on: June 05, 2011, 08:26:38 PM »

But why would the school go to such lengths to erase messages? Seems sort of over the top to me but then again, not sure of the normal practice of a school in regards to computer and phone records.

I can't imagine any reason a school would need or want a program like that..just not needed in the school environment.

Also I would think that in a school environment they would not erase email files or any other files for a period of time.

And if they are erased they should be retrieveable.

And there are people that work for the federal government and the various branches of the military, many of them as freelance consultants, that are professional hackers and are able to de-crypt anything on a computer.  Case in point the war on terror ..most of those files and email exchanges from Bin Laden's group and the Taliban were encrypted..but they were still hacked by our government and the files retrieved..we have had that ability pre 9/11.

Vanish may be great for a lawyers office..but I bet someone consulting to the federal government has already broken that code and can retrieve data.


Anyhow..my question..Why haven' t they arrested Terri on lesser charges..like the attempted murder for hire deal?

Really..she has to know something or else she would not have remained so quiet for a year..withuot her daughter...if she was completely innocent of anything to do with this and the murder for hire of Kaine..why would she clam up if she has nothing to tell to begin with?  i know her lawyer advised her not to speak..but come on...a year is a long time without your daughter.  If she has nothing to defend ..why the silence.  Even if she is innocent I would think by now her lawyer would have said okay to the divorce and letting her atleast address those issues.  Just makes her look guilty of something if she is refusing to talk..
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monchichi
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« Reply #184 on: June 05, 2011, 09:02:12 PM »

I am so disappointed.  I wish they would let us know if DAD and Trejo were unrelated to Kyron's case.  Can't they at least say they've eliminated anything?
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« Reply #185 on: June 05, 2011, 09:40:41 PM »

I wonder if Kaine will be so patient about his pending divorce?

Kyron is with us?  He's in our hearts?  We need to remain positive? 
http://www.katu.com/news/local/123168548.html


No, he's not with you and no amount of positivity is going to bring him home.  Hiring a kick a** PI, that might do it.  Meeting personally with witnesses willing to talk might help.  Trusting investigators with a room full of paperwork and tons of money to their name who still might need four years won't do it.  They had a school full of witnesses, friends with bat phones who are also witnesses, emails, video, pictures, and they have no idea what happened that morning?  Really?  No idea?

 

I get that until you've walked in the shoes of the parent of a missing child a person does not know how they would react.  I'm just the type of person that when a physician makes a diagnosis I google until I'm sure he's right.  More than once he has not been correct and I've figured out on my own what the correct diagnosis is (in one case my child had a brain tumor and doctor said the tics and other ailments were 'normal', thank goodness I'm tenacious and willing to think for myself)

LE can continue doing what they do but I sure as heck would be doing what I could as well to make sure my child was either found or the evidence lay bare before me so I could surmise to at least SOME degree what became of him.

Sorry for the rant.   







Amy: I totally understand your anger and disappointment in the lack of evidence found after so many agencies were involved. Not only do they not have any evidence to state a POI publicly, but they don't seem to have a clue as to where Kyron is, or even what happened that day.

Wrt hiring a PI and/or other outside sources, I agree. They should have let, a person whom shall not be named, search that property with their SAR dogs. It's just unbelievable to me.

Right now, I'm at a loss as what to say or even what to sleuth. I'm just deeply disappointed in how this whole investigation was handled.

Yes, and yes Sassi and Amy's, ITA.

IMO, they are going for the "no body" conviction, which takes at least a year.   If a body were to appear at this point, it could screw up the prosecution's current [non]case against a POI, as yet unnamed! 

Also, IMO, this is mistake.  I'm not convinced that TH is totally innocent.  But if the prosecution screws this up by trying to convict without a body -- when actually a SAR person (who will remain nameless) has scent evidence of cadavers in at least two difference locations associated with this case (both heavily searched by LE) -- if they screw this up and a body appears, I'm afraid TH could get off.  This is JMO.  I'm not an attorney. 



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hellokitty
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« Reply #186 on: June 05, 2011, 10:01:15 PM »

 

I think that the nameless "SAR" person has been shown to be a fraud over and over again.
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« Reply #187 on: June 05, 2011, 10:50:18 PM »

I don't see how a "no body" case can be prosecuted here; no crime scene exists, no sign of injury to Kyron, no previous known abuse or pattern, etc...it would be very difficult, especially when the defense can present tape after tape of Desiree and Kaine both saying that they believe Terri had Kyron stashed somewhere...

In cases like this, the parents would have to testify and would have to say they are convinced Kyron is dead; I am not sure either one could do that with any conviction. Because, how do they know? No one overheard an incident, no one apparently saw anything unusual, and she is said to be on tape in two stores that morning shortly after she left Skyline.

Way too much doubt here, not only that TH is the culprit but that Kyron is not alive. Many people want little children for their own...and would go as far as to steal one. With so many uncertainties in this investigation, destroyed phone records, delay in reconstructing the scene, seemingly not knowing about the man who was cutting the soccer field for a long time...and he saw kids outside unattended...well, even Jose Baez could probably win a case like this one...
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melisb
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« Reply #188 on: June 05, 2011, 10:59:00 PM »

I wonder if Kaine will be so patient about his pending divorce?

Kyron is with us?  He's in our hearts?  We need to remain positive? 
http://www.katu.com/news/local/123168548.html


No, he's not with you and no amount of positivity is going to bring him home.  Hiring a kick a** PI, that might do it.  Meeting personally with witnesses willing to talk might help.  Trusting investigators with a room full of paperwork and tons of money to their name who still might need four years won't do it.  They had a school full of witnesses, friends with bat phones who are also witnesses, emails, video, pictures, and they have no idea what happened that morning?  Really?  No idea?

 

I get that until you've walked in the shoes of the parent of a missing child a person does not know how they would react.  I'm just the type of person that when a physician makes a diagnosis I google until I'm sure he's right.  More than once he has not been correct and I've figured out on my own what the correct diagnosis is (in one case my child had a brain tumor and doctor said the tics and other ailments were 'normal', thank goodness I'm tenacious and willing to think for myself)

LE can continue doing what they do but I sure as heck would be doing what I could as well to make sure my child was either found or the evidence lay bare before me so I could surmise to at least SOME degree what became of him.

Sorry for the rant.   






I so agree with you!!!   You know they may be listening only to LE and not taking any initiative.  There are so many folks (all MOO, so please don't anyone be offended)who believe only what their docs, LE, people in authority say, the kind of people who won't even take a Tylenol without asking the doc first and don't even use their common sense to help themselves. I would be begging from week one for a PI to help me!  That is, if I was out of my straight jacket by then.  I would let ANY trained, respected, willing to help SAR, PI, former LE, friend, family, anyone that would help me do so!  LE wouldn't be able to tell me to let them handle it!  I would never interfere with their investigation and do all they asked me to do but I would challenge them if they wouldn't let me have outside help!  If my child was missing I'll be darned if I wouldn't go to the end of the earth and back again for him.

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hellokitty
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« Reply #189 on: June 05, 2011, 11:14:49 PM »

 

so many crazies out there that want to "help".

It's hard to believe that all of those agencies that were working on this screwed it up so badly.  What the heck????
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« Reply #190 on: June 05, 2011, 11:23:23 PM »

I wonder if Kaine will be so patient about his pending divorce?

Kyron is with us?  He's in our hearts?  We need to remain positive? 
http://www.katu.com/news/local/123168548.html


No, he's not with you and no amount of positivity is going to bring him home.  Hiring a kick a** PI, that might do it.  Meeting personally with witnesses willing to talk might help.  Trusting investigators with a room full of paperwork and tons of money to their name who still might need four years won't do it.  They had a school full of witnesses, friends with bat phones who are also witnesses, emails, video, pictures, and they have no idea what happened that morning?  Really?  No idea?

 

I get that until you've walked in the shoes of the parent of a missing child a person does not know how they would react.  I'm just the type of person that when a physician makes a diagnosis I google until I'm sure he's right.  More than once he has not been correct and I've figured out on my own what the correct diagnosis is (in one case my child had a brain tumor and doctor said the tics and other ailments were 'normal', thank goodness I'm tenacious and willing to think for myself)

LE can continue doing what they do but I sure as heck would be doing what I could as well to make sure my child was either found or the evidence lay bare before me so I could surmise to at least SOME degree what became of him.

Sorry for the rant.   







Amy: I totally understand your anger and disappointment in the lack of evidence found after so many agencies were involved. Not only do they not have any evidence to state a POI publicly, but they don't seem to have a clue as to where Kyron is, or even what happened that day.

Wrt hiring a PI and/or other outside sources, I agree. They should have let, a person whom shall not be named, search that property with their SAR dogs. It's just unbelievable to me.

Right now, I'm at a loss as what to say or even what to sleuth. I'm just deeply disappointed in how this whole investigation was handled.

Yes, and yes Sassi and Amy's, ITA.

IMO, they are going for the "no body" conviction, which takes at least a year.   If a body were to appear at this point, it could screw up the prosecution's current [non]case against a POI, as yet unnamed! 

Also, IMO, this is mistake.  I'm not convinced that TH is totally innocent.  But if the prosecution screws this up by trying to convict without a body -- when actually a SAR person (who will remain nameless) has scent evidence of cadavers in at least two difference locations associated with this case (both heavily searched by LE) -- if they screw this up and a body appears, I'm afraid TH could get off.  This is JMO.  I'm not an attorney. 





Maybe I'm missing something...but....Staton says they have NO physical evidence of Kryon and a Grand Jury has heard all kinds of testimony....and no one has been indicted.  So, once a year goes by and there's no body found...how could not having enough evidence to indict someone suddenly turn in to evidence because it's been over a year?

Many posters have said that the only evidence is what LE shares with us. 

Okay, what do we know from LE?

Official pressers from Staton in September & December, 2010 and February & May, 2011 - all - tell us they have no suspects, they've checked out persons of interest, they have no physical evidence of Kyron, etc.  All along, LE has told us they don't have the evidence to even name a suspect, let alone make an arrest.

Okay, I take them at their word.  IMO, I don't have a choice.  Otherwise, as embarassed as LE has been, they would have certainly made an arrest.  Legally, it really doesn't matter what either of Kyron's parents say.  Their message is cloaked in their extreme pain.  I understand that.  But....as far as arrests, suspects, etc., the word from LE is "the word".

One year later...."the word" is that oops they forgot to ask the school to retain phone and computer records.  I'm so ticked-off about that.  Hello!?!  How incompetent can you get?  The only good thing wrt phone and computer records is that Staton "hired" experts (probably "because" of not getting the school records).  I'm betting that a bunch of all the records that Staton had the experts check out were all the phone calls made in the area of the school that morning.   

I may be wrong, but since Terri seemed to be LE's tunnel vision scope for a long time, I'm also betting that every single phone call Terri made or received has been checked out, even to the point of following through with each person she talked to - their phone number and all the folks they talked to as well....followed the trail big time on Miss Terri.  Still not enough for an arrest.

The facts are, there's nothing there and after a whole year, this case has gone cold.  After July 1, one detective is assigned to Kyron's case.  IMO, that's a token gesture and a point person that any future tips, etc., would be given to that detective to check out.  LE has gone from inter-action of 42 agencies, 100's or 1000's of searchers, to a task force of 8 and FBI profilers and more searchers, to an addition of two hired experts and 6 FBI Special Agents.  The experts and Special Agents were an all out attempt to hone in and get to the bottom of this case.  The end result is to no longer have the task force and only have one detective assigned to the case. 

I read that they're going to be going to tech stuff...but a detective is not a person who handles tech stuff.  I'm hoping that when Staton addresses the Commissioners we will hear some more details wrt to that aspect.

There are no searches being done.  MCSO doesn't have the funds.  And...I may be wrong, but I can't see how Kaine/Desiree would be getting any substantial donations for searches and Kaine/Desiree have said so many times that "Terri did it", the folks out there - after a whole year - just won't be making donations or not donations of any substantial amount.  I don't mean this to be ugly, but have we ever heard that the collection of money was used to support any search(es)?

Bottom line, after 42 agencies, 1000s of searchers, expert in all things related to cell phones, expert in IT, 6 FBI Special Agents and FBI profilers...all this spanned over an intensive year of investigation...there is nothing.

I'm so angry and I apologize, for I'm sure my post reflects my anger.  So sad that I don't even have the words to describe it.

If I were Kaine/Desiree, like someone else posted, I would have hired my own kick-a** P.I.....looooonnnngggg ago.  Hind sight is always great, though.  I'm not faulting Kaine/Desiree.  I'm just saying what I would have done (and I'm not walking in their shoes and my viewpoint might be greatly different if I were).

Also, I think that meeting personally with witnesses willing to talk might be good, too.....or have a P.I. meet with them.  After all, it surely wouldn't be hindering any official investigation at this time. 

Remember....12 months later.....LE cannot make an arrest, cannot name a suspect and cannot even name a person of interest.

July 1, LE is cutting back Kyron's case to one detective.
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« Reply #191 on: June 05, 2011, 11:25:24 PM »



so many crazies out there that want to "help".

It's hard to believe that all of those agencies that were working on this screwed it up so badly.  What the heck????

IMO all those agencies didn't screw it up so badly....the evidence is NOT there.
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« Reply #192 on: June 05, 2011, 11:52:39 PM »


Maybe I'm missing something...but....Staton says they have NO physical evidence of Kryon and a Grand Jury has heard all kinds of testimony....and no one has been indicted.  So, once a year goes by and there's no body found...how could not having enough evidence to indict someone suddenly turn in to evidence because it's been over a year?

Many posters have said that the only evidence is what LE shares with us. 

Okay, what do we know from LE?

Official pressers from Staton in September & December, 2010 and February & May, 2011 - all - tell us they have no suspects, they've checked out persons of interest, they have no physical evidence of Kyron, etc.  All along, LE has told us they don't have the evidence to even name a suspect, let alone make an arrest.

Okay, I take them at their word.  IMO, I don't have a choice.  Otherwise, as embarassed as LE has been, they would have certainly made an arrest.  Legally, it really doesn't matter what either of Kyron's parents say.  Their message is cloaked in their extreme pain.  I understand that.  But....as far as arrests, suspects, etc., the word from LE is "the word".

One year later...."the word" is that oops they forgot to ask the school to retain phone and computer records.  I'm so ticked-off about that.  Hello!?!  How incompetent can you get?  The only good thing wrt phone and computer records is that Staton "hired" experts (probably "because" of not getting the school records).  I'm betting that a bunch of all the records that Staton had the experts check out were all the phone calls made in the area of the school that morning.   

I may be wrong, but since Terri seemed to be LE's tunnel vision scope for a long time, I'm also betting that every single phone call Terri made or received has been checked out, even to the point of following through with each person she talked to - their phone number and all the folks they talked to as well....followed the trail big time on Miss Terri.  Still not enough for an arrest.

The facts are, there's nothing there and after a whole year, this case has gone cold.  After July 1, one detective is assigned to Kyron's case.  IMO, that's a token gesture and a point person that any future tips, etc., would be given to that detective to check out.  LE has gone from inter-action of 42 agencies, 100's or 1000's of searchers, to a task force of 8 and FBI profilers and more searchers, to an addition of two hired experts and 6 FBI Special Agents.  The experts and Special Agents were an all out attempt to hone in and get to the bottom of this case.  The end result is to no longer have the task force and only have one detective assigned to the case. 

I read that they're going to be going to tech stuff...but a detective is not a person who handles tech stuff.  I'm hoping that when Staton addresses the Commissioners we will hear some more details wrt to that aspect.

There are no searches being done.  MCSO doesn't have the funds.  And...I may be wrong, but I can't see how Kaine/Desiree would be getting any substantial donations for searches and Kaine/Desiree have said so many times that "Terri did it", the folks out there - after a whole year - just won't be making donations or not donations of any substantial amount.  I don't mean this to be ugly, but have we ever heard that the collection of money was used to support any search(es)?

Bottom line, after 42 agencies, 1000s of searchers, expert in all things related to cell phones, expert in IT, 6 FBI Special Agents and FBI profilers...all this spanned over an intensive year of investigation...there is nothing.

I'm so angry and I apologize, for I'm sure my post reflects my anger.  So sad that I don't even have the words to describe it.

If I were Kaine/Desiree, like someone else posted, I would have hired my own kick-a** P.I.....looooonnnngggg ago.  Hind sight is always great, though.  I'm not faulting Kaine/Desiree.  I'm just saying what I would have done (and I'm not walking in their shoes and my viewpoint might be greatly different if I were).

Also, I think that meeting personally with witnesses willing to talk might be good, too.....or have a P.I. meet with them.  After all, it surely wouldn't be hindering any official investigation at this time. 

Remember....12 months later.....LE cannot make an arrest, cannot name a suspect and cannot even name a person of interest.

July 1, LE is cutting back Kyron's case to one detective.


Wow, great points made. 

All that manpower, all those resources and nothing.

Now, Kyron Horman slips into the void of unsolved cases.

It's awful and, like so many, I am disappointed.
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« Reply #193 on: June 05, 2011, 11:55:50 PM »

They made some mistakes and it seems they could be costly, since they have not been able to advance the case at all. Not telling the school to keep the records was a mistake and we don't know how big a mistake, but one a defense would exploit. Not interviewing the groundskeeper until, was it August, is a mistake, they should have known within days everyone who was working on the property in any function on June 4th. Not doing the whole where did you park and did you see this white truck thing for a while was a mistake, no one has that good of a memory. People will try to recall and even "invent" things to be helpful, thinking they are telling the truth and all it does is add more confusion. LE said in their own press release a few days ago Kyron was last seen at the doorway of his classroom (and they do NOT say by who)-this means that Desiree's talk about Kyron being in the parking lot by the truck did not pan out. But I am sure in her mind, he was still in that parking lot. Kaine tried to tell her at the time that it had not been confirmed but she just nodded away, oh yes he was. Any little thing like that which LE has ruled out, Desiree still clings to as a part of her "tons of evidence" against Terri. I am a huge supporter of Desiree...but I can't take what she says about the case seriously, I just can't- MCSO knows they can't move forward; they don't have a ton of evidence against anyone.
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« Reply #194 on: June 05, 2011, 11:57:02 PM »

Is the fact that LE is saying some school computer log ins and phone calls are not obtainable and given the fact using some kind of program to wipe things off the face of the earth is sort of over kill, is this a clue? Were some things deleted intentionally?

They said computer log in, not computer emails. Personal emails from teachers to parents should be private and should not be hackable, but I don't see a program wiping them out and not be retrievable.
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« Reply #195 on: June 06, 2011, 12:06:04 AM »



so many crazies out there that want to "help".
It's hard to believe that all of those agencies that were working on this screwed it up so badly.  What the heck????

IMO all those agencies didn't screw it up so badly....the evidence is NOT there.


At this point, what is there to lose really. I would have had him searched the property, it is not like he could invent something that is not there. Either he would have found something or not.

As for the evidence. I really believe they lost the chance at the evidence.
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« Reply #196 on: June 06, 2011, 12:25:48 AM »


As for the evidence. I really believe they lost the chance at the evidence.

Are you referring to the lost school records?  I understand the need to preserve absolutely every piece of information, given the lack of any other evidence, but what kind of info could "log in" records have contained?  Do people believe it was an inside job or that the perp logged in to a computer inside the school?  While it is an unfortunate mistake, I do not believe they "lost the chance" at the evidence.  I can't help but think that even with that missing piece of info, they would be right where they are today.

Whoever disappeared Kyron was either extremely lucky or extremely skilled.
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« Reply #197 on: June 06, 2011, 12:38:17 AM »



so many crazies out there that want to "help".
It's hard to believe that all of those agencies that were working on this screwed it up so badly.  What the heck????

IMO all those agencies didn't screw it up so badly....the evidence is NOT there.


At this point, what is there to lose really. I would have had him searched the property, it is not like he could invent something that is not there. Either he would have found something or not.

As for the evidence. I really believe they lost the chance at the evidence.

With the first loss being "major" one that has haunted Staton and he's said so publicly:

LE lost those first 6 hours because the school did not call about Kyron not being there when roll call was taken.

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« Reply #198 on: June 06, 2011, 12:43:25 AM »

Could computer log-in records have something to do with why the school failed to notify Kyron's parents?  Didn't they have an auto notification system that failed?  Maybe someone fixed it so that they would have the extra time?
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« Reply #199 on: June 06, 2011, 12:43:25 AM »


As for the evidence. I really believe they lost the chance at the evidence.

Are you referring to the lost school records?  I understand the need to preserve absolutely every piece of information, given the lack of any other evidence, but what kind of info could "log in" records have contained?  Do people believe it was an inside job or that the perp logged in to a computer inside the school?  While it is an unfortunate mistake, I do not believe they "lost the chance" at the evidence.  I can't help but think that even with that missing piece of info, they would be right where they are today.

Whoever disappeared Kyron was either extremely lucky or extremely skilled.

I'm not sure how big a loss the school records are...BUT...the management of the investigation - that the school was never asked to retain the records....makes me wonder how good the investigation as a whole was in those first critical days.  Maybe the investigation was a good one; however, an oversight of not requesting school records seems to be an "elementary" part...one that should have never been overlooked.  And, it makes me suspicion the school's efforts NOT to keep the records.
Pardon me, but it makes me think of dumb and dumber.

Any lost "phone" records were probably obtained eventually LE or FBI. 

Logged

Puzzler - that which puzzles or perplexes; anything that arouses curiosity or perplexes because it is unexplained, inexplicable or secret.
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