Lively Case Discussion #591 3/19 - 3/21/2007

[San]

San - Maybe v/d Straten actually did plan on retiring...but did not because of the mess he created with the NH case? So he protects himself by taking on a newly created position in Bonaire. Remains in the employ of, and protected by the Crown.

That may very well be what he did igsigs.  I never thought of that.

[oldfart]

Hi Monkeys,

I see we are kinda talking about " witness  vs suspect ".

Maybe a witness that becomes a suspect can not be charged with lying as a witness because they are now a suspect.??   Does that mean if they ever become non-suspects they can be charged for lying as a witness?
 

[igsigs]

The original point still stands. When someone says they are going to retire, they usually retire.

Red Flag # 10,564 since June 05.

How stupid do they think...

[igsigs]

Hi Monkeys,

I see we are kinda talking about " witness  vs suspect ".

Maybe a witness that becomes a suspect can not be charged with lying as a witness because they are now a suspect.??   Does that mean if they ever become non-suspects they can be charged for lying as a witness?
 

lol - Good question oldfart. I'll do a search and get back to you.

ArlenesManyLies.com

[Dayhiker]

<snipped>


OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE IS AGAINST DUTCH LAW - Arlene Schippers

<snipped>

.... unless you are a suspect or you are a lying witness by the name of Paulus Van der Sloot.


John Q. Kelly'
Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 19, 2005

COSBY: No, but, John, it certainly helps when you can hold somebody accountable for lying to police. How challenging is it, when you‘re dealing with Aruban law?

KELLY: Well, they made the distinction down there; suspects cannot be charged with lying, witnesses can.


Steve Cohen
Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 19, 2005

STEVE COHEN, SPECIAL ADVISER TO ARUBAN GOVERNMENT: ... if you‘re in the midst of being interrogated and you do lie and you‘re are caught in that lie, unless you‘re under oath, which only happens once you‘re charged, you can‘t be charged with anything.


Arlene Ellis-Schipper'
The Abrams Report'
June 30, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well basically obstruction of justice is a criminal offense in our criminal code. However, there is an exoneration for family members in the first degree. So in the case of Mr. Van der Sloot it would not apply.

Justice is subjective on Aruba, is it not Janet? The Prosecutor and police knew within hours of viewing the surveillance videos that their three witnesses had lied and had due cause for arrest. Yet they did nothing.

They did nothing because Paulus Van der Sloot was a close friend of Jan Van der Straten and had connections to the prosecutors' office, certainly with Ben Voking and very possibly KJ.

Why would it take 10 days to arrest these three liars and another five days to search the house? And why was the house search restricted by none other than a Dutch judge and Ben Vocking?

Is this the Dutch system we don't understand? Or what it has all the benchmark signs of being: an outright attempt to divert justice and cover-up the death of an American tourist on their island.

[oldfart]

Lies vs  not press for lessor charges.

It still frustrates me to NO end that  lessor charges have not been brought against anyone.

Joarn - under age drinking / gambling
K'2  -  contributing to Joarn's activities
Pappa for the same chit.
Various Bars / Hotels  included

Ya I know ... they do not want to for some reason  

[oldfart]

Well Monkey's  
I think I'm going to see If  "I'm as smart as a 5th grader."

and visit the site from the Front Page to pop some bubble wrap 1st
 http://www.virtual-bubblewrap.com/popnow.shtml

SeeYaaByeeeeeeee

[Dayhiker]

Why is there no evidence ... Natalee Holloways's amazing mother, Beth Twitty,  knows ... she is not deceived.

Beth Twitty
ARUBAN BOYCOTT
December 12, 2005

MICHELLE: "One of Joran's and PVDS's alibis was that Joran was picked up at the McDonald's. PVDS originally told you the first night you met him that he picked Joran up at 4:00 a.m., but he later gave a statement that he picked Joran up at 11:00 p.m. Do you know if there are security cameras in the McDonald's parking lot to prove this claim?"

BETH: On June 5, we asked officials to check to see if there were security cameras, and to this day, nothing has ever been done. No one has looked into it.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, we‘ve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. We‘ve had falsified documents. I mean, we‘ve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers‘ statements. We‘ve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

Here's Nitwit Cohen hot on the evidence trail. Note the date, January 2006. What a bunch of liars.

"Dr. Phil asks him, “From your opinion, based on what
you know, do you believe that these boys are guilty of wrongdoing here?” Steve says that he does. “Do the prosecutors believe they are guilty of wrongdoing?” Steve says that they do. “Do you believe that [the boys] have available, intimate knowledge of what happened to her that night?” Again, Steve confirms that he does.

Steve explains, “Forensic materials continue to be collected. I think we’ve got our hands on some forensic material now that may actually open up the doors to the final results of this case.”

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/01/19/dr-phil-show-part-1-steve-cohen-do-you-believe-that-these-boys-are-guilty-yes/

[Cat]

you are so right,OF.Can you say payoff,vdStraten.cat

[carpe noctem]

Justice is very subjective in Aruba. That is for sure Janet.


The double-edged sword about that "good ole boy network"

that they are trying to use to get Joran out of danger, can

be flipped to bring permanent and lasting solutions

to make sure Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes never

get the opportunity to do it again. That can have fatal backlash I think.

Do they really want to risk the kids lives on that?


I mean how stupid can these people be? (don't)


.......


I have no doubt that Satish Kalpoe was right... one wave of

the correct persons hand and.... What Satish said  parroted back by  

Deepak in his SKEETER'S INTERVIEW sounds about right to me.

He said

Satish said that we could simply vanish or be murdered. They'll kill us.


I personally think Satish was right on the money about that one.


Apparently, for once he told THE TRUTH!


I just can't believe they'd be that stupid.

[Anna]

[

Here's Nitwit Cohen hot on the evidence trail. Note the date, January 2006. What a bunch of liars.

"Dr. Phil asks him, “From your opinion, based on what
you know, do you believe that these boys are guilty of wrongdoing here?” Steve says that he does. “Do the prosecutors believe they are guilty of wrongdoing?” Steve says that they do. “Do you believe that [the boys] have available, intimate knowledge of what happened to her that night?” Again, Steve confirms that he does.

Steve explains, “Forensic materials continue to be collected. I think we’ve got our hands on some forensic material now that may actually open up the doors to the final results of this case.”

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/01/19/dr-phil-show-part-1-steve-cohen-do-you-believe-that-these-boys-are-guilty-yes/

Good Evening Monkeys and Dayhiker,

Working and Lurking here. . . .do try to read and keep up.

So is Steve Cohen lying here or was there forensic evidence and it was lost, maybe put in the Evidence Drawer that makes all things vanish?

If forensic or "hard evidence" as Arlene was wont to call it, is all that judges recognize in Aruba, why was it not collected immediately?  Why were the last to be seen with Natalee not subjected to the usual fingernail scrapings, confiscation of clothing, etc.?

We saw Joran wearing that same shirt later on.  I believe the interview he did for GMA features his wearing it.  And he is so proud of having the shoes that were claimed missing.

If forensic is of paramount concern in the courts of Aruba, one would expect that it would be the prime objective of ALE to collect and preserve instead of giving a ten day head start on its destruction.

I like Art Wood's term of "professional cover up" for that is surely what happened, complete with fake crime scene vids and everything.  

We know and they know we know.  They also know we can't force them to do anything about it.  That is why boycott is our only alternative.  What we cannot do, the voters and good people of Aruba could by holding those accountable and bringing criminal charges for those who failed to perform their duties and assisted in the destruction of evidence and acted in collusion with this miscarriage of justice.

[San]

Why is there no evidence ... Natalee Holloways's amazing mother, Beth Twitty,  knows ... she is not deceived.

Beth Twitty
ARUBAN BOYCOTT
December 12, 2005

MICHELLE: "One of Joran's and PVDS's alibis was that Joran was picked up at the McDonald's. PVDS originally told you the first night you met him that he picked Joran up at 4:00 a.m., but he later gave a statement that he picked Joran up at 11:00 p.m. Do you know if there are security cameras in the McDonald's parking lot to prove this claim?"

BETH: On June 5, we asked officials to check to see if there were security cameras, and to this day, nothing has ever been done. No one has looked into it.

Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, we‘ve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. We‘ve had falsified documents. I mean, we‘ve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers‘ statements. We‘ve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

Here's Nitwit Cohen hot on the evidence trail. Note the date, January 2006. What a bunch of liars.

"Dr. Phil asks him, “From your opinion, based on what
you know, do you believe that these boys are guilty of wrongdoing here?” Steve says that he does. “Do the prosecutors believe they are guilty of wrongdoing?” Steve says that they do. “Do you believe that [the boys] have available, intimate knowledge of what happened to her that night?” Again, Steve confirms that he does.

Steve explains, “Forensic materials continue to be collected. I think we’ve got our hands on some forensic material now that may actually open up the doors to the final results of this case.”

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/01/19/dr-phil-show-part-1-steve-cohen-do-you-believe-that-these-boys-are-guilty-yes/

Yes and the ATA was in a scramble to respond to Steve's remarks.

From the A.M. Digital
January 26, 2006

ATA reacts on statement by Steve Cohen
In Dr. Phil’s program

Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) wishes to clarify the following:
- Steve Cohen is not paid and has not been retained by ATA but by AHATA (Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association);
- The Task Force supported Steve Cohen to be the spokes person for Aruba in only the Natalee Holloway case. The Task Force and ATA have compiled the document “Natalee Holloway Talking Points” to serve as a guide for everybody who talks to international media on the subject;
- ATA and Minister Briesen are not in agreement with Steve Cohen’s statement where he gives details on the case and says that the 3 suspects are guilty. This statement bu Cohen was not discussed in the Task Force. A press conference was called last week in Puerto Rico, during CHA (Caribbean Hotel Association) Marketplace, where ATA and Minister Briesen were surprised by the same statement by Cohen. Immediately Minister Briesen and ATA Director Jansen approached messrs. Cohen and Pesquera to emphasize that Cohen cannot make such statement on behalf of the Government and/or Aruba. Specifically, Cohen was informed by Minister Briesen and ATA Direct or Jansen that he cannot give details of the case and cannot speculate on the guilt of the 3 suspects;- However, a number of days before the Puerto Rico Conference Cohen had already participated in the recording of Dr. Phil’s program, of which ATA had not knowledge, and unfortunately he made the same statements in that show;
- Deviation of the contents of the above mentioned document on “Talking Points” was not discussed in the Task Force. ATA maintains the strategic philosophy that Aruba must be defended with the truth, facts and correct information.

It must be added that Cohen’s position, as any other spokes person in the passed ot in the future, has many challenges. Cohen’s position as defender of Aruba is not a popular one at the moment and we appreciate his willingness to do it. His presence at CHA had a positive influence with the travel tour operators there.

Based on the recent developments ATA and Minister Briesen are doing some re-evaluations to discussed internally.

[Dayhiker]

Justice is very subjective in Aruba. That is for sure Janet.


The double-edged sword about that "good ole boy network"

that they are trying to use to get Joran out of danger, can

be flipped to bring permanent and lasting solutions

to make sure Joran, Paulus and the Kalpoes never

get the opportunity to do it again. That can have fatal backlash I think.

Do they really want to risk the kids lives on that?


I mean how stupid can these people be? (don't)


.......


I have no doubt that Satish Kalpoe was right... one wave of

the correct persons hand and.... What Satish said  parroted back by  

Deepak in his SKEETER'S INTERVIEW sounds about right to me.

He said

Satish said that we could simply vanish or be murdered. They'll kill us.


I personally think Satish was right on the money about that one.


Apparently, for once he told THE TRUTH!


I just can't believe they'd be that stupid.

Yep Carpe, this is all about the "good ole boy" network.

Van Der Sloot... Van der Straten... Voking... Wit... Smid...

Notice a similarity in all those names? They're all Dutch.

Ya think the Kalpoes would be out right now if Joran hadn't been in the car that night? The trial would already be over and they'd be in KIA serving time.

[Tamikosmom]

Why is there no evidence ... Natalee Holloways's amazing mother, Beth Twitty,  knows ... she is not deceived.

Beth Twitty
ARUBAN BOYCOTT
December 12, 2005

MICHELLE: "One of Joran's and PVDS's alibis was that Joran was picked up at the McDonald's. PVDS originally told you the first night you met him that he picked Joran up at 4:00 a.m., but he later gave a statement that he picked Joran up at 11:00 p.m. Do you know if there are security cameras in the McDonald's parking lot to prove this claim?"

BETH: On June 5, we asked officials to check to see if there were security cameras, and to this day, nothing has ever been done. No one has looked into it.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005

TWITTY: Well, Rita, like I said, we‘ve been worried as early as June 1 when we saw torn statements at a police station. We‘ve had falsified documents. I mean, we‘ve seen key elements omitted from uniformed police officers‘ statements. We‘ve had a D.E.A. whose statement was never taken.

Here's Nitwit Cohen hot on the evidence trail. Note the date, January 2006. What a bunch of liars.

"Dr. Phil asks him, “From your opinion, based on what
you know, do you believe that these boys are guilty of wrongdoing here?” Steve says that he does. “Do the prosecutors believe they are guilty of wrongdoing?” Steve says that they do. “Do you believe that [the boys] have available, intimate knowledge of what happened to her that night?” Again, Steve confirms that he does.

Steve explains, “Forensic materials continue to be collected. I think we’ve got our hands on some forensic material now that may actually open up the doors to the final results of this case.”

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/01/19/dr-phil-show-part-1-steve-cohen-do-you-believe-that-these-boys-are-guilty-yes/

Hi Dayhiker.

Steve Cohen reveals to Phil, Beth Twitty and John Kelly on the Dr. Phil show that there is forensic evidence and ... his appointment as spokesperson for the Strategic Communications Task Force in regards to the Natalee Holloway investigation dictates that he has a comprehensive knowledge of the case.

Why has the suspects not been apprehended again (reasonable suspicion)  and ... this forensic evidence presented by the prosector to the judge for consideration?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!


Steve Cohen
http://www.arubatruth.com/?p=17
December 7, 2005

Aruba Selects Spokesperson for North America

AHATA and the ATA appointed Cohen to deal with all media relations concerning the case which still commands media coverage in the United States. Mr. Cohen has been part of the Strategic Communications Task Force since its creation in June. He has a full knowledge of the case and is an associate of the Strategic Message Design Group that has served in an advisory capacity to both ATA and AHATA.

[Dayhiker]

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/01/19/dr-phil-show-part-1-steve-cohen-do-you-believe-that-these-boys-are-guilty-yes/

Yes and the ATA was in a scramble to respond to Steve's remarks.

From the A.M. Digital
January 26, 2006

ATA reacts on statement by Steve Cohen
In Dr. Phil’s program

Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) wishes to clarify the following:
- Steve Cohen is not paid and has not been retained by ATA but by AHATA (Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association);
- The Task Force supported Steve Cohen to be the spokes person for Aruba in only the Natalee Holloway case. The Task Force and ATA have compiled the document “Natalee Holloway Talking Points” to serve as a guide for everybody who talks to international media on the subject;
- ATA and Minister Briesen are not in agreement with Steve Cohen’s statement where he gives details on the case and says that the 3 suspects are guilty. This statement bu Cohen was not discussed in the Task Force. A press conference was called last week in Puerto Rico, during CHA (Caribbean Hotel Association) Marketplace, where ATA and Minister Briesen were surprised by the same statement by Cohen. Immediately Minister Briesen and ATA Director Jansen approached messrs. Cohen and Pesquera to emphasize that Cohen cannot make such statement on behalf of the Government and/or Aruba. Specifically, Cohen was informed by Minister Briesen and ATA Direct or Jansen that he cannot give details of the case and cannot speculate on the guilt of the 3 suspects;- However, a number of days before the Puerto Rico Conference Cohen had already participated in the recording of Dr. Phil’s program, of which ATA had not knowledge, and unfortunately he made the same statements in that show;
- Deviation of the contents of the above mentioned document on “Talking Points” was not discussed in the Task Force. ATA maintains the strategic philosophy that Aruba must be defended with the truth, facts and correct information.

It must be added that Cohen’s position, as any other spokes person in the passed ot in the future, has many challenges. Cohen’s position as defender of Aruba is not a popular one at the moment and we appreciate his willingness to do it. His presence at CHA had a positive influence with the travel tour operators there.

Based on the recent developments ATA and Minister Briesen are doing some re-evaluations to discussed internally.[/quote]


They seem to have a lot of trouble keeping their lies straight, don't they San? So Briesen's "talking points" didn't jive with Cohen's talking points.

Here's a novel idea ATA and AHTA, why not just tell the truth?

[Dayhiker]

Hi Dayhiker.

Steve Cohen reveals to Phil, Beth Twitty and John Kelly on the Dr. Phil show that there is forensic evidence and ... his appointment as spokesperson for the Strategic Communications Task Force in regards to the Natalee Holloway investigation dictates that he has a comprehensive knowledge of the case.

Why has the suspects not been apprehended again (reasonable suspicion)  and ... this forensic evidence presented by the prosector to the judge for consideration?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!


Steve Cohen
http://www.arubatruth.com/?p=17
December 7, 2005

Aruba Selects Spokesperson for North America

AHATA and the ATA appointed Cohen to deal with all media relations concerning the case which still commands media coverage in the United States. Mr. Cohen has been part of the Strategic Communications Task Force since its creation in June. He has a full knowledge of the case and is an associate of the Strategic Message Design Group that has served in an advisory capacity to both ATA and AHATA.

Interesting Janet, according to Briesen's statement that San just posted Cohen doesn't work for ATA.

Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) wishes to clarify the following:
- Steve Cohen is not paid and has not been retained by ATA but by AHATA (Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association);

Get your lies straight fellas!

[Dayhiker]

Good Evening Monkeys and Dayhiker,

Working and Lurking here. . . .do try to read and keep up.

So is Steve Cohen lying here or was there forensic evidence and it was lost, maybe put in the Evidence Drawer that makes all things vanish?

If forensic or "hard evidence" as Arlene was wont to call it, is all that judges recognize in Aruba, why was it not collected immediately?  Why were the last to be seen with Natalee not subjected to the usual fingernail scrapings, confiscation of clothing, etc.?

We saw Joran wearing that same shirt later on.  I believe the interview he did for GMA features his wearing it.  And he is so proud of having the shoes that were claimed missing.

If forensic is of paramount concern in the courts of Aruba, one would expect that it would be the prime objective of ALE to collect and preserve instead of giving a ten day head start on its destruction.

I like Art Wood's term of "professional cover up" for that is surely what happened, complete with fake crime scene vids and everything.  

We know and they know we know.  They also know we can't force them to do anything about it.  That is why boycott is our only alternative.  What we cannot do, the voters and good people of Aruba could by holding those accountable and bringing criminal charges for those who failed to perform their duties and assisted in the destruction of evidence and acted in collusion with this miscarriage of justice.

Great to see you Anna! How are all the pups?

Cohen is a piece of work, not only does he say they have evidence, he follows his comment up with, "I think we’ve got our hands on some forensic material now that may actually open up the doors to the final results of this case.”

That was a year and two months ago. Go get'em Steve!

LOL, I think their theory from the start was that if you tell enough lies some of them will come true. Bad mistake.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Dayhiker.

Steve Cohen reveals to Phil, Beth Twitty and John Kelly on the Dr. Phil show that there is forensic evidence and ... his appointment as spokesperson for the Strategic Communications Task Force in regards to the Natalee Holloway investigation dictates that he has a comprehensive knowledge of the case.

Why has the suspects not been apprehended again (reasonable suspicion)  and ... this forensic evidence presented by the prosector to the judge for consideration?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!


Steve Cohen
http://www.arubatruth.com/?p=17
December 7, 2005

Aruba Selects Spokesperson for North America

AHATA and the ATA appointed Cohen to deal with all media relations concerning the case which still commands media coverage in the United States. Mr. Cohen has been part of the Strategic Communications Task Force since its creation in June. He has a full knowledge of the case and is an associate of the Strategic Message Design Group that has served in an advisory capacity to both ATA and AHATA.

Interesting Janet, according to Briesen's statement that San just posted Cohen doesn't work for ATA.

Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) wishes to clarify the following:
- Steve Cohen is not paid and has not been retained by ATA but by AHATA (Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association);

Get your lies straight fellas!

Steve Cohen
DR. PHIL SHOW
January 29, 2005

Steve Cohen, special advisor to Aruba, came on the show hoping for a chance to talk to Beth about where the investigation stands today. Dr. Phil turns to Steve. "So, you're a paid consultant?" he asks.

"That's correct," Steve replies.

"And, who pays you?" Dr. Phil probes.

"I'm actually paid by the tourism industry, which is the Aruban Tourism Authority, and also a group called AHACA, which is an association of hotel owners on the island."

[Dayhiker]

Thanks for the avi Klaas! You're fantastic!      

[IndyDan]

At long last, a Steve Croes sighting:

Ladies Night @ Paddock, Carlos N Charlies, Cafe Bahia & Mambo Jambo 21 March  


 

Yep still bloated, ugly, and a scumbag.

Bloated indeed, notice the extra neckroll.  Also notice the eyes the him and his buddy - BLITZED.  Fine upstanding young men that prey the Aruban tourist scene.