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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #858 4/20/11 - 6/13/2011  (Read 302657 times)
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #740 on: May 29, 2011, 05:58:34 PM »







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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #741 on: May 29, 2011, 06:06:38 PM »

I just read about Grave Wax (Adipocere) over in the Caylee Anthony case.   It says
 that the process of forming Grave Wax can last for many years in the right enviorment.
I wonder if it could be found in the trap/cage since it was determined by Aruba
that there was a body there.
I remember Kyle saying something about the impression where the organs would
have been and the impression left on the cage floor.
I do not know if Salt Water would have a different effect on the substance.

The transformation of fats into adipocere(Grave Wax) occurs best in the absence of oxygen in a cold and humid environment, such as in wet ground or mud at the bottom of a lake or a sealed casket, and it can occur with both embalmed and untreated bodies. Adipocere formation begins within a month of death, and in the absence of air it can persist for centuries.[3] An exposed, infested body or a body in a warm environment is unlikely to form deposits of adipocere.

Corpses of women, infants and overweight persons are particularly prone to adipocere transformation because they contain more body fat.[1] In forensic science, the utility of adipocere formation to estimate the postmortem interval is limited because the speed of the process is temperature-dependent. It is accelerated by warmth, but temperature extremes impede it.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocere


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1556-4029.2006.00362.x/abstract

Waxing Grave About Adipocere: Soft Tissue Change in an Aquatic Context†
Tyler G. O'Brien Ph.D., Amy C. Kuehner B.A.
Article first published online: 31 JAN 2007

ABSTRACT: When postmortem environmental conditions are “just right,” according to the “Goldilocks Phenomenon,” soft tissues (and associated fatty acids) are converted into and preserved as adipocere. To better understand this conversion process and the development of adipocere three human cadavers were immersed in outside, water-filled pits for over 3 months to observe adipocere formation in an underwater context simulating actual field conditions. Recordings of environmental conditions showed that temperatures were between 21°C and 45°C, a range sufficient for the growth of Clostridium perfringens. Chemical analysis of liquid and tissue samples revealed an increase in palmitic acid and decrease in oleic acid. This study tracked the remarkable gross morphological changes that can occur in human bodies subjected to an aquatic postmortem environment. The results support the “Goldilocks Phenomenon” and substantiate previous findings that the presence of bacteria and water is crucial for adipocere to form.



http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/dead-folks-and-decay/

 ::snipping2::

The third method of alteration is by adipocere formation, which is the result of a chemical process called saponification. Basically soap making. Adipocere is caused by a reaction between certain bacteria and the body’s adipose (fatty) tissues. Bacteria such as Clostridia perfringens, the bacterium that causes gas gangrene, convert body fat into oleic, stearic, and palmitic acids, the primary constitutes of adipocere. The result is a whitish-gray or brownish, greasy or waxy substance, which can cast the body in a doll-like fashion. On first glance the corpse might appear to be a manikin or as if it had been carved from a large bar of soap. This most often occurs in bodies found in water or warm, damp areas and usually takes several months to form so that adipocere formation is a broad indicator of time of death.
Bodies do not always decompose uniformly or in the same way. A corpse might be partially skeletonized, partially mummified, and partially converted to adipocere. Adipocere looks like this:

(picture at link)

This photo is of two child victims in the famous Hoptoun Quarry Murders Case investigated by Sir Sydney Alfred Smith. Read the full story HERE.
 ::snipping2::



I read here that the Grave Wax has been found in Ship Wrecks in sea water
from the 17th century.  I think that is what we are seeing in Natalee's outline
in the cage/trap.

http://books.google.com/books?id=O8YEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=Adipocere+in+Salt+Water&source=bl&ots=Je6m_tGHou&sig=jA6-foe9GHBvRX25cMN8o6-kfj8&hl=en&ei=DcHiTZ3VE4-htwfa1ZyDBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Adipocere%20in%20Salt%20Water&f=false
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #742 on: May 29, 2011, 06:24:06 PM »

Interesting research Magnolia!   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #743 on: May 29, 2011, 06:27:42 PM »

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20148066,00.html

July 4, 2005 edition of People Magazine



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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #744 on: May 29, 2011, 06:49:19 PM »

http://www.wthitv.com/dpp/news/local/mother-continues-search-for-daughter

Mother continues search for daughter

Updated: Tuesday, 12 Apr 2011, 11:53 PM EDT
Published : Tuesday, 12 Apr 2011, 9:56 PM EDT

News Staff

Terre Haute, Ind. (WTHI) - She's a mother on a mission who claims she'll never stop searching for her daughter.

That's Beth Holloway.

She is the mother of Natalee Holloway, a girl from Alabama who went missing in Aruba back in 2005.

Beth spoke Tuesday at Saint Mary of the Woods College, and she had a strong message.

She claims that, six years later, she refuses to give up the search for her daughter.

 ::snipping2::




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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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Justice for Natalee


« Reply #745 on: May 29, 2011, 11:11:48 PM »



Thanks CBB
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« Reply #746 on: May 30, 2011, 12:42:42 AM »

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2011/may/30/TDWEAT01-today-in-history-may-30-ar-1072995/

Today in History: May 30
By Times-Dispatch Staff

May 30, 1911 The first Indy 500 (originally called the "International Sweepstakes") took place at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway; the winner was Ray Harroun, who drove a Marmon Wasp for more than 6½ hours at an average speed of 74.6 mph and collected a prize of $10,000.

1431 Joan of Arc, condemned as a heretic, was burned at the stake in Rouen, France.

1806 Andrew Jackson killed Charles Dickinson in a duel that left Jackson seriously wounded.

1922 The Lincoln Memorial was dedicated in a ceremony attended by President Warren G. Harding, Chief Justice William Howard Taft and Robert Todd Lincoln.

1943 American forces secured the Aleutian island of Attu from the Japanese during World War II.

1958 Unidentified American service members killed in World War II and the Korean War were interred in the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery.

1961 Rafael Trujillo, longtime ruler of the Dominican Republic, was assassinated.

1981 The president of Bangladesh, Ziaur Rahman, was assassinated in a failed military coup.

2005 American teenager Natalee Holloway was last seen leaving a bar in Aruba with three young men before disappearing; her fate remains unknown.

Ten years ago Former Petersburg High School standout Moses Malone and college coaches Mike Krzyzewski and John Chaney were elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame.

Five years ago A jury in Rockville, Md., convicted John Allen Muhammad of six of the 10 Washington-area sniper killings. (Although sentenced to life in prison for the Maryland killings, Muhammad was executed in November 2009 for a Virginia slaying.)

One year ago Joran van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba, was seen leaving a hotel room in Lima, Peru, where the body of 21-year-old Stephany Flores was found three days later. (Van der Sloot is accused of first-degree murder in the death of Flores.)

Thought for today "For happiness one needs security, but joy can spring like a flower even from the cliffs of despair." — Anne Morrow Lindbergh, American writer (1906-2001)
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« Reply #747 on: May 30, 2011, 02:04:07 AM »

May 26, 2005

I DROVE AWAY WITHOUT KNOWING

Loving Natalee
A Mother’s Testament of Hope and Faith
By Beth Holloway


Page 14-15:  On Thursday May 26, 2005, Natalee came into my bedroom at three o'clock in the morning to tell me it was almost time to go. Everyone was gathering at a friend's house for the ride to the airport. My job was to pick everyone up at the airport when they returned on Memorial Day, Monday, May 30, 2005.

While Natalee was going to be out of town, Jug was going to his lake house to visit with his family and friends. In our marriage, the second for both of us, we rarely vacationed together. My son, Matt, had made his own plans with friends for the weekend, so it was the perfect time for me to take a much-needed, overdue trip to my family's lake house in Hot Springs, Arkansas. I had not been there in a very long time. Birmingham is about nine hours away, so it was just too long a drive since moving here to make the trip on a regular basis. I was very much looking forward to visiting with my family. Everyone's plans were made.

In the wee hours on this Thursday morning Natalee and I loaded her things in the back of the car and headed off to her friend's house. It was very dark at that hour, and we were both only half awake. But we did talk some. Small talk. We reviewed what she had packed, going through a mental checklist of passport, cash, camera, sunscreen, and the like. When we arrived at her friend's house, she came to life. The adventure she had been excitedly awaiting for months was finally about to begin. She jumped out of the car and bounced to the back to get her bag. I got out and walked around the car to help her. She gathered her things and looked up long enough for me to kiss her on the cheek.

"I love you! Have a great time!" I told her.

She replied, "Bye, Mom! Love you!" and slung her purple duffel bag over her shoulder.

The bag made her walk slightly bent to its opposite side. I got back in the car as she made her way up the long walkway to the front door. Turning the car around to leave, I stopped and looked back over my shoulder to see her go inside. The front door of the house opened just wide enough for her to slip in. I saw her silhouette in the beam of light that shone from inside. The light narrowed as the door closed, then disappeared completely. It was pitch-black again. I drove away not knowing that would be the last time I would ever see Natalee.

 

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #748 on: May 30, 2011, 02:05:25 AM »

May 30, 2005

THE PROVERBIAL DREADED PHONE CALL

Loving Natalee
A Mother’s Testament of Hope and Faith
By Beth Holloway


Page 23:  Rested and refreshed, we leave Memphis late Monday morning with Linda driving and Marilyn up front with her.  I take the backseat.  We sail along, chatting like we alway do, talking about our plans for another road trip one day soon.  Marilyn and I are happily speculating about what our daughters' reactions will be when they open their presents to find a set of extraordinary Wizard of Oz figures.  Natalee will gasp with excitement when she sees these.  Before we know it, we've crossed over into Mississippi.  Somewhere amid our conversation, between the chuckles and the small talk, my cell phone rings. I don't recognize the number, but answer it anyway, which I usually don't do.

It's a young girl.  "Mrs. Twitty?  My mom ... umm ... my mom, she umm ... wants to talk to you."  It's the daughter of Judi, the travel agent.  She developed appendicitis right before the trip, so she and Jodi didn't get to go to Aruba.  They are in Birmingham.  It seems like an eternity before Jodi takes the phone.

"Tell me what's going on," I say in a voice much firmer than the one I usually hear coming from my mouth.

She simply says, "Natalee didn't show up this morning to get on the plane."

And instantly I know.  It's more than a mother's intuition.  It's certainty.  Something terrible has happened.  I have just answered the proverbial dreaded phone call that no mother or father every wants to receive.  The one we fear from the moment our children are born.  The one that changes a parent's life forever.

 


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #749 on: May 30, 2011, 02:07:28 AM »

May 30, 2005

HE ISN'T A TOURIST

Loving Natalee
A Mother’s Testament of Hope and Faith
By Beth Holloway

Exerpts - Pages 34 -39:


It’s around eleven o”clock on Memorial Monday night when the island comes into full view.

We land, and the door opens.

All of us load up into the handlers’ big white van and head for the Holliday Inn.

We arrive at the Holiday Inn, get out of the van, and go inside the open-air lobby of the hotel.  The coach and DEA agent are to our left, and we turn to walk toward them.

Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the front desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."   My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."   I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.  It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied to them.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #750 on: May 30, 2011, 02:07:53 AM »



Carp - Scared Monkeys

+++++++++

Freebird

If I leave here tomorrow
Would you still remember me?
For I must be traveling on now,
'Cause there's too many places I've got to see.


Lynyrd Skynyrd
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #751 on: May 30, 2011, 02:40:41 AM »


Justice for Natalee,



and Stephany!
 ::justice2NJ::
 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #752 on: May 30, 2011, 07:24:00 AM »



Joran and his attorney admit it, but she still won't. 






Drunk again....so transparent.     



His own mother won't have anything to do with him.......

Just serves as a reminder. Most people have a purpose in life....and then there is the skank ho.


What a sad weekend for Natalie's and Stephany's famly and loved ones.

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT...IT DOES !!!
 ::justice2NJ::
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« Reply #753 on: May 30, 2011, 10:49:16 AM »

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Natalee-Holloway-six-years-no-answers/WBL5O3EdsUy7zHKmjA-0Rw.cspx

Natalee Holloway...six years, no answers
Published: 7:56 am
Updated: 8:12 am

Birmingham, Ala (WIAT)  It's been six years since Natalee Holloway left an Oranjestad bar with a local boy...and vanished. 

Over the course of those six years there has been aching yearning for information. Numerous false clues.  Several fake confessions. 

For several days, Aruban and Dutch officials thought they had a significant break in the case, but a jawbone washed up on the beach turned out to be another false trail.

While family and friends grieve and wonder what happened to the Mountain Brook teen after she walked into the night with Joran van der Sloot, there have been significant but unsatisfactory developments in the past 12 months.

Van der Sloot has become an internet sensation of four continents after the body of a 21 year old Peruvian student was found in his Lima hotel room....on the anniversary of the night he led Natalee to her fate.

 ::snipping2::
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #754 on: May 30, 2011, 10:54:47 AM »

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Natalee-Holloway-six-years-no-answers/WBL5O3EdsUy7zHKmjA-0Rw.cspx

Natalee Holloway...six years, no answers
Published: 7:56 am
Updated: 8:12 am

Birmingham, Ala (WIAT)  It's been six years since Natalee Holloway left an Oranjestad bar with a local boy...and vanished. 

Over the course of those six years there has been aching yearning for information. Numerous false clues.  Several fake confessions. 

For several days, Aruban and Dutch officials thought they had a significant break in the case, but a jawbone washed up on the beach turned out to be another false trail.

While family and friends grieve and wonder what happened to the Mountain Brook teen after she walked into the night with Joran van der Sloot, there have been significant but unsatisfactory developments in the past 12 months.

Van der Sloot has become an internet sensation of four continents after the body of a 21 year old Peruvian student was found in his Lima hotel room....on the anniversary of the night he led Natalee to her fate.

 ::snipping2::


From the same link:

See Cynthia Gould's report tonight at 6:00 p.m. on air at CBS42 or streaming live here on CBS42.com.
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #755 on: May 30, 2011, 11:17:38 AM »

Six years is six years too long, WHERE IS NATALEE??  Where is Justice for Natalee???

One year, is one year too long, Where is Justice for Stephany????

 
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I will ALWAYS stand with the girls, Natalee and Caylee, forever.
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #756 on: May 30, 2011, 11:32:27 AM »



Joran and his attorney admit it, but she still won't. 






Drunk again....so transparent.     



His own mother won't have anything to do with him.......

Just serves as a reminder. Most people have a purpose in life....and then there is the skank ho.


What a sad weekend for Natalee's and Stephany's famly and loved ones.

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT...IT DOES !!!
 ::justice2NJ::

Hi Sharon!   

Yes, I'm sure it's a sad weekend for both families...one six year's into their journey in search of Natalee and seeking Justice for her; and Stephany's loved ones I'm sure reliving all that happened a year ago and praying that they will see Justice soon.  Justice won't bring their precious daughters back, but it still MUST be demanded and expected no matter how long it takes.  I'm thankful that Stephany's family have her grave to go and place flowers for her, Natalee's family deserves that too; Aruba can make that happen.  The longer that takes, the worse they look; it's their choice.  We're not going away!

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT...IT DOES !!!


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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #757 on: May 30, 2011, 11:42:48 AM »

With video, in Dutch

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/nederland/2011/joran-een-jaar-later/

May 29, 2011 at 22:44
Netherlands

Joran, one year later

Monday was one year ago that he Peruvian Stephany Flores in his hotel room brought to life.

Exactly five years after he was suspected in Aruba already involved in the disappearance of American Natalee Holloway. Her body was never found and therefore could not be proven that Joran had something to do. But Joran was in Peru last year and against the lamp, when after the death of Stephany went on the run. He was arrested and since then he's stuck in Peru, awaiting his trial.

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« Reply #758 on: May 30, 2011, 11:55:30 AM »

  texasmom and MuffyBee

Justice for Natalee and Stephany will come--even if it's in a way that we don't fully understand now.

texasmom--thanks for the translated article that you posted yesterday.  It's very informative.  The link here--

http://elcomercio.pe/lima/764530/noticia-caso-van-der-sloot-antes-despues-crimen-stephany-flores
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« Reply #759 on: May 30, 2011, 12:07:01 PM »

texasmom and MuffyBee

Justice for Natalee and Stephany will come--even if it's in a way that we don't fully understand now.

texasmom--thanks for the translated article that you posted yesterday.  It's very informative.  The link here--

http://elcomercio.pe/lima/764530/noticia-caso-van-der-sloot-antes-despues-crimen-stephany-flores


Yes, I agree with you grace-land.  "Justice for Natalee and Stephany will come--even if it's in a way that we don't fully understand now."

 an angelic monkey an angelic monkey

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  " Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."  - Daniel Moynihan
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