Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #11 7/27/10 - 7/29/10

[d in texas]

I really want to ask something and it is NOT to stir the pot just something I have never seen happen here, and it is touching a really raw nerve with both opinions >>oh how do I ask...

What is about people who do not like Kaine and the people who see no wrong doing but*ing heads so very much.  We have always had differing opinions on certain issues. 

If it was just a bash fest than I could understand, but I really haven't seen that. 

I for one have felt from the very beginning that Kaine had some personal things that he wanted to guard, and personally can understand, I wouldn't want to have to deal with everything he is and deal with my personal laundry being aired either.  But when someone takes a child and may of harmed that child, that is kind of what happens. 

With that said with out trying to be cruel to a grieving father, I find it hard to see how he did not see the changes, see the behavior and try to figure it out.  Hindsight is always 20/20, but found it so telling in the audio interview when he told how TH oldest son asked him if anything bad happened could he come and live with him.  Still have that on my mind..  Then the friends that are saying stuff about missing alcohol after they had visited, were they that disconnected from one other they were just going through the motions?

Something happened to push TH over the edge, what was it, with Casey we have a pretty good insight to her problem with CA and her sociopath ways crashing and Caylee paid the price.  What was the fuel that ignited TH actions, that is all I am trying to figure out.   

Personally I think knowing those answers would help in finding Kyron, I am praying that child is still alive, just do not see how she could pull off killing a child in that short a time.

please don't nanner me I am really just trying to understand the great divide on the subject as I am not understanding

[Puzzler]

Puzzler - did you watch this afternoons press conference.  Did you listen to the OregonLive reporters 25 minute interview with them after the PC? 

Goodnight all!  May Kyron be found soon.

Klaas, since you asked if I'd listened to the 25 minute interview, I went back and re-listened very carefully to it and made a couple more observations (which sometimes gets me in trouble...ha).

Let me say up-front that I lean heavily that Terri is the "one" most involved in Kyron going missing.

Couple of obvious things:  all of this is one-sided as we've heard nothing from Terri, nothing from DeDe and really not much from LE.  Yes, I know that Kaine/Desiree are relaying information they've been told by LE (which doesn't appear to be much-or-not much they can talk about because of the on-going investigation) and comments about their personal interactions with Terri.  With this being so one-sided, we really cannot make any kind of informed decision. 

Interesting to note that Terri/Desiree were not friends from the beginning.  Also interesting to note that Kaine says he did not hire Terri to help with children (Terri had a full-time job), but Kain won't disclose "how" Terri came to be in his life.  Further, at the beginning of Kaine having an affair with Terri, Desiree was pregnant...so Kyron had not been born.  Something surreptitous...  Kaine won't disclose about how he came to meet Terri because of the on-going investigation.  Since the meeting was before Kyron was born, I really have to wonder how that fits with Kyron going missing...and whether this is more of a deeper relevation about Kaine that he doesn't want public.  I'm okay with that..we don't need to know IMO.

Kaine said that Terri got a DUI and had been drinking behind his back for about six months and drinking herself to sleep every night.  He said this was behind his back and implied he didn't know about it.  Well, I don't know about you guys, but if I was me and my husband was drinking himself to sleep every night...I sure as heck would know it.  Once it came to my attention, I would observing every night.  Also, if I did find out my husband was drinking himself to sleep every night I would "know" something was bad wrong and that he was very unhappy with his life.

Another note: Terri and post-partum depression - was not a "diagnosis".  But...the doctor did give her some pills for "something".  I would bet money that the pills were for "depression".  That was obviously held back. Why?

Desiree said that people who are experiencing post-partum depression are depressed and sit around home; that they don't calculate and scheme...plan things out.  I believe Desiree believes that either from just her thoughts about depression or someone has told her that.  However, all I could do was think about Andrea Yates.  It came out in court that Andrea planned and thought many times about doing something with her children.  So, maybe not all people, but some people with post-partum depression do plan, scheme and carry out their plans.

It bothered me to hear Kaine said that Kiara has not asked for her mother and that she's a whole new kid.  It bothered me even more to hear Desiree agree that Kiara was a whole new kid.  I don't mean this to be ugly, but how does Desiree know what kind of kid Kiara was...really? IMO, I just don't believe that Kiara hasn't asked for mommy. She's a toddler; she's not and older teenager that has the thinking power to say "hmmm....mommy's gone, that's good, good riddance and now I'm a happier kid...a whole new kid".  Nope..sorry to say...I don't believe Kaine/Desiree on this one.  I might entertain the idea that Desiree's statement was based on what "she's been told". 

Bugged me that Kaine admitted that he knocked heads with Terri's older son, James, because he's a teenager and Kaine was the parent trying to set boundaries...then in the next sentence, Kaine is disparaging toward Terri because she and James bumped heads.  One might say that Terri and James bumped heads because he was a teenager and she was the parent trying to set boundaries. 

I just tell myself to step back and look logically at this.  All we've heard is one-sided.  I can readily understand how Kaine would be very negative about Terri.  Really, I can.  And...maybe it's all true.  Point being...we just don't know.

We do know that LE is leaning hard on Terri and looking at her as a POI.  They certainly know more than us and by them leaning so hard on Terri, it makes me lean heavily in the direction that she has done something bad.

DeDe...don't have an opinion yet, except for one...the comments that DeDe is not co-operating with LE and telling other friends not to co-operate...really could be as simple as DeDe growing up with a father in LE "know" that if you're questioned you don't say anything until you have legal representation and could be as simple has DeDe telling other friends the same thing...to the public, though, the wording is that DeDe's not being co-operative.  For that matter, friend DeDe could have advised Terri not to talk and when it became clear that Terri was really in trouble, might have eve advised Terri to get the best legal representation she could...which she did.  Also, very interesting to not that Terri first tried to hire a high-profile attorney, that we believe to be Gloria Allred.  If so, Gloria Allred is not the kind of attorney that deals with "murder" cases.  Another thing that makes one mind wonder about.

I can't imagine being told my LE that my spouse had tried to hire someone to kill me.  Just can't imagine it. I'm very curious to learn more about that.  "If" this Sanchez guy is in the U.S. illegally, then that's living a lie in-and-of-itself; why would LE believe anything this man has to say.  Maybe I've missed it, but has LE disclosed any kind of evidence re: trying to be hired to kill Kaine?  Maybe there's a greater "thing" going on here...like drugs or (heaven forbid) selling a child.  My mind could go wild with specualtion here, but won't do it...however, I remain very curious about Sanchez and think there's more to that issue.

One final thought (sorry to be so long): another obvious point is that the responses to reporters are planned in advance, lots of discussion before meeting with reporters; this pre-planning allows the responder to word the response in the direction they want it to go and it's obvious it's all against Terri and Dede, too.  It does appear that Terri is critically involved with Kyron going missing and "maybe" Dede helped her friend in an emergercy some way.   



 

[yuknomenot]

In the press conference this afternoon, LE thanked Kaine, Desiree and Tony for their continued support and assistance.  Of course there was NO thanks for Terri.

No matter what happened 7 years ago in the lives of Kaine and Desiree, THEY ARE STANDING TOGETHER NOW!  LE appears to be standing with them as well. 

Agreed!  The fact that they are standing together now should be enough.  Their pasts are just that, the past.  This sweet boy had two loving parents, a loving stepdad in Tony and, until recently, they probably thought that of Terri also.  Kaine and Desiree did what they thought best for their child, just as each of us would.  They are now going through a terror that no parent should have to endure and none of us  have the right to second guess their family decisions.  The focus should be on finding Kyron rather than on who was too stoic in this press conference, who didn't show enough emotion in that one or even which spouse was wronged by the other first. 

[Puzzler]

Just curious... Has it been discovered yet as to where the money that TH is allegedly paying her attorney fees with had originated from?
tia

I hope we don't find out it was ABC!

For kicks I added up how much Casey A got (only her) and it came to over $250,000 and does not include the money CA & GA got.  I honestly believe "if she did give the lawyer $350, it came from media.  Desiree in the audio interview wants to know where it came from, if Terri got money off of Kyron it isn't going to be good.

And Kiara I think they said that to dig at Terri some more.

I think LE, Desiree, and Kaine are using psychological warfare against Terri (which I think is great!).  You know she was watching the press conference and you know that had to have affected her.

I, too, think LE, Desiree and Kaine are using psy ops against Terri; however, some people take it to heart what is said in these pressers.  It is aimed at causing a reaction from Terri.  If Terry believes it, she will really be hurt; if Terri believe it's not true that Kiara hasn't asked about mommy, then Terri will be angry.  Either way, there's a reaction.

Remember....no one "has to tell the truth"; especially LE, they can control anything and/or everything that goes on....even what's said to the bio parents, Kaine and Desiree.

[Puzzler]

Just curious... Has it been discovered yet as to where the money that TH is allegedly paying her attorney fees with had originated from?
tia

I hope we don't find out it was ABC!

For kicks I added up how much Casey A got (only her) and it came to over $250,000 and does not include the money CA & GA got.  I honestly believe "if she did give the lawyer $350, it came from media.  Desiree in the audio interview wants to know where it came from, if Terri got money off of Kyron it isn't going to be good.

And Kiara I think they said that to dig at Terri some more.

I think LE, Desiree, and Kaine are using psychological warfare against Terri (which I think is great!).  You know she was watching the press conference and you know that had to have affected her.

I would love to have had one of those nanny cams on her as she watched! Would love to have seen her reaction!

Yes, me too....she probably pitched an angry fit...like we've heard she did about not passing the polys.  Have we heard from LE that she didn't pass her polys?  Or have we just heard that LE told her she didn't pass the polys?

[pdh3]

In the press conference this afternoon, LE thanked Kaine, Desiree and Tony for their continued support and assistance.  Of course there was NO thanks for Terri.

No matter what happened 7 years ago in the lives of Kaine and Desiree, THEY ARE STANDING TOGETHER NOW!  LE appears to be standing with them as well. 

Under the current circumstances, I'd say that LE's nod to Kaine, Desiree and Tony (and lack of it to Terri), pretty much sums up who's wearing the white hats and who's wearing the black one as far as Kyron's disappearance. That's all that matters to LE, and that's all that is relevent to this case, IMO. It's only about Kyron.

I like these posts. So true..both of them.

[tnmomb]

ummmm...left y'all some links and notes....I thought the podcast when it gets to Anita Kisse was interesting but everyone has probably heard/read the rest...if not here ya go including some notes from Desiree and Kaine's Interview with the Oregonian I copied from the Kyron Horman discussion Private page
ok goodnight

[tnmomb]

ummmm...left y'all some links and notes....I thought the podcast when it gets to Anita Kisse was interesting but everyone has probably heard/read the rest...if not here ya go including some notes from Desiree and Kaine's Interview with the Oregonian I copied from the Kyron Horman discussion Private page
ok goodnight

p.s. at the bottom of page 16....nite

[pdh3]

ummmm...left y'all some links and notes....I thought the podcast when it gets to Anita Kisse was interesting but everyone has probably heard/read the rest...if not here ya go including some notes from Desiree and Kaine's Interview with the Oregonian I copied from the Kyron Horman discussion Private page
ok goodnight

Thanks for the hard work!

[Puzzler]

Sorry...another thought from the 25 minute interview with Kaine and Desiree.

Kaine said Terri wanted the truck to pick up Kyron's science project that morning, but she didn't do it and wonders why she didn't take it with her when she left; however, Kaine also says that the project was to be left at the science fair until it was over and that it was supposed to last until 10:00 a.m.  So why would Kaine wonder why Terri didn't take the project with her when she left the school if the fair wasn't over yet.

Desiree, though, said that in one of the emails from Terri that day that Terri had said she needed to find out when she could pick up the project.

We've heard that Terri did email the school to ask when she could pickup the project.  Did we hear whether or not the school had responded back to Terri about when to pick up the project?

 

[pdh3]

Puzzler....Kaine did not know that Terri was planning to leave the school BEFORE the science fair was over at 10:00. He thought she'd stay until 10:00 and take it home in the truck then. But she didn't....she left around 8:45. so her reason for wanting the truck was a lie. She apparently had another purpose for using it that day, or something happened that made her change her plans.

[Puzzler]

Puzzler....Kaine did not know that Terri was planning to leave the school BEFORE the science fair was over at 10:00. He thought she'd stay until 10:00 and take it home in the truck then. But she didn't....she left around 8:45. so her reason for wanting the truck was a lie. She apparently had another purpose for using it that day, or something happened that made her change her plans.

Okay, thanks.  So Kaine thought that Terri would stay until 10:00 and then take the project home.  Makes sense. 

I think I heard that Kiara was with Terri that morning.  If so, and Kiara was fussy about her ear or just not feeling good, might have been a reason for Terri to leave before 10:00. 

So much to wonder about...

[Puzzler]

Has it been reported or have we heard anything about a red mustang on Sauvie Island that morning and driving around very fast and erratic?

[Puzzler]

http://204.74.214.194/forum1/message1141412/pg54

musclesrcool 7/28/2010  1:02 AM

I have an interesting tidbit.

I just returned from dinner with a friend I haven't seen for a couple of months. During dinner I was telling her about this case. I said TH had retained some hotshot criminal defense guy in portland and TH told Kaine she paid $350,000 to the attorney. I did not tell my friend the attorney's name.

My friend's boyfriend got accused wrongly about 4 years back of possibly being some kind of terrorist (he's japanese!) She said they paid a Portland attorney $20,000 to defend him. She said the attorney's name was HOUZE.

I listened to the interview with Kyron's parents posted on this link. Both DeDe & Kaine described Terri as one who was prone to make up stories. They also shared a couple of examples of complete lies she has told.

Based upon this I think the amount paid is probably closer to $35,000. Terri could have been exaggerating as she is allegedly prone to do.

[flutter1]

This is just hypothetical discussion but, what if, Terri wanted to get Kyron out of the picture for some reason. If it were something like say for instance the school was forcing Kyron to be treated medically for his behavior at school? What if the end result was forced medication that Terri did not agree with? (Pure speculation here.)
What if Terri contacts a friend of a friend's lawyer friend who also believes as Terri does, the lawyer then advises taking Kyron out of the picture for his own safety sake, based upon their agreed upon beliefs which are anti forced medication, so the lawyer then gets tied into the situation and aids in hiding Kyron out (strongly believing in their convictions that medicating the Child would be detramental to the Child's physical safety and well being.) The lawyer then allows for the Child to be hidden in his or her cabin but when the heat is on becomes nervous and decides to quickly move the Child from the area but in an effort to cover the tracks places blood of the Child (Which could have been taken from the Child via a needle even and placed on the sock rather than it coming from an injury of any other nature.)
Not sure where I am going with this yet...

Maybe you should write a book.  Quite an imagination.

Why do you appear to be defending Terri?  Do you really think some bloody sock found hours away has anything to do with this case? 

I believe Kaine and Desiree would have the right to approve or disapprove of any type of treatment Kyron might need. I don't think Terri has that authority without at least one of the other biological parents authorization.

Federal laws(IDEA), which govern the way children are treated under special ed labeling in school specifically allows for parents to have the final say so in what happens to their child. 

As far as Kaine's character, I don't know about being socially awkward, but I think that at least for a portion of his life he was quite superficial.  He was attracted specifically to a woman who was totally obsessed with her own body image.  They even got married in their swim suits.  All of this screams that he is more interested in what a person looks like than what is going on inside.  I think he is only recently coming to realize how rotten Terri was to the core -- despite what the package looked like on the outside (or looked like at one time). 

[Mary]

If Terri's lawyer is suppose to be so hi-powered do you think he might have given
Terri his own poly, he might have his own guy that he uses. Terri might have passed this one. Also earlier Desi said that before she got preggy with Kyron she
was going to leave Kaine and then she got preggy and changed her mind. So was
he playing games with Terri even then. While I do not condone if Terri has hurt
this child, I think Kaine's behaviour might be a factor. JMO

[luvmyboys]

Does anyone know how long kaine had kyron. Like was it right after he was born or a couple years. And how did that get arranged. Sorry if you guys have already talked about that. If so then I must have missed it. Thanks

[tcumom]

Someone said Terri seems to be a master of deception. That is how I see her. I think it's despicable of Kaine to have cheated on Desiree, but in my experience sometimes the other woman is more to blame than anyone. I've known plenty of women that are only interested in a man that belongs to someone else. It is a game to them and they will do anything to win it.

I would imagine Desiree felt pretty beat up after the birth of Kyron, the divorce, her illness, the medical bills. Then you've got Terri, the master of deception. Everyone knew her as being "all about the children" and their education and development, etc. etc. That's what she wanted everyone to see and she was successful. I can imagine Desiree feeling how was she going to compete with this?

Obviously, deep down, she knew Terri was not what she seemed.

Since Terri told all her friends how she had "come to the rescue" of Kyron I'm sure she was praised and admired for what she had done, being a child expert like she made herself out to be.
Terri had to try to hug on Desiree during that first press conference, because she had told everyone they were friends.

I feel so sorry for Desiree. I see Kaine as the opposite of most people. Not as a monster, but as a weak man, shocked at how fooled he was and as a devastated loving father.

You and I are on the same wave length.   

Me too guys....I may have to eat these words someday, but as of right this is how I am feeling.

Yes.  Thanks for putting my thoughts into words.

[amom2]

Another note: Terri and post-partum depression - was not a "diagnosis".  But...the doctor did give her some pills for "something".  I would bet money that the pills were for "depression".  That was obviously held back. Why?

Desiree said that people who are experiencing post-partum depression are depressed and sit around home; that they don't calculate and scheme...plan things out.  I believe Desiree believes that either from just her thoughts about depression or someone has told her that.  However, all I could do was think about Andrea Yates.  It came out in court that Andrea planned and thought many times about doing something with her children.  So, maybe not all people, but some people with post-partum depression do plan, scheme and carry out their plans.One final thought (sorry to be so long): another obvious point is that the responses to reporters are planned in advance, lots of discussion before meeting with reporters; this pre-planning allows the responder to word the response in the direction they want it to go and it's obvious it's all against Terri and Dede, too.  It does appear that Terri is critically involved with Kyron going missing and "maybe" Dede helped her friend in an emergercy some way.   
 

Having had some experience with depression, I just wanted to zero in on this (above). Desiree is right. People who are depressed - it is almost painful to be around people, and to be social. Planning in the way that Andrea Yates was planning is so much different that what this looks like, with TH. For one thing, AY’s "plan” didn’t take her out of the house. Also, she called the police right away, on herself.

If one was going to bring TH into the depression arena, I would say she looks more like bipolar to me. I have some experience with this to, due to a friend who was suffering from depression – and the medication the Dr. put her on brought her out of it – but she kept going up, and up, and up. Very risky, irrational behavior can be tied to bipolar.

But, imho, I feel that Terri is narcissistic.  If it’s all about being  bipolar (in TH’s case it would be more like full blown manic depression)  – then where’s the crash? Where’s the severe depression that should come after she realized everything she’d done? Bipolar is just that - what goes up must come down.

I don’t know – I’m no expert. Just a few observations with what I have known myself with depression – and what I’ve seen in others with bipolar.

[trimmonthelake]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyrons-mom-terri-horman-stashed-missing-oregon-boy/story?id=11266651

Kyron Horman's Mom: Terri Horman 'Stashed' Missing Oregon Boy
Retired Sheriff's Captain: Indictments in Case 'Inevitable'
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By MIKE von FREMD and SARAH NETTER
July 28, 2010
Desperate to see her 7-year-old son again, Kyron Horman's mother has lashed out at the boy's stepmother, saying she believes Terri Horman has "stashed" the missing boy somewhere.
Desiree Young told People magazine  Tuesday that, despite repeated pleas for Terri Horman to cooperate with police, she's depending on the investigation to bring her son home.

"I believe that he's stashed," she said.

Her statement came the same day that she made an emotion public appearance alongside the investigators who have been searching for the second-grader for nearly two months.

"We love you Kyron, never give up hope," she said through her tears. "We are all coming to get you, to bring you home."

Multnomah County Sheriff's Office officials announced yesterday that the reward money for information leading to Kyron would be doubled to $50,000, with the money coming from an anonymous donor.
But police said little about their investigation, leaving most of the talking once again, to Kyron's parents, Young and father Kaine Horman. The supposed press conference that promised more information on the investigation abruptly ended with no further comment from police and no chance for questions.

Bruce McCain, a retired captain with the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office, accused authorities of using Kyron's family as "stage props."

"They're using Kaine Horman as their de-facto public information officer and he's got enough on his plate," he said.
But, he added, this could be yet another sign that the case is inching toward an arrest.

"A lot of people are saying is an arrest imminent. I would use the word imminent," McCain said. "I think we will see indictments out of this process inevitably."

In a taped interview with The Oregonian, Young said she was suspicious from the start, citing e-mails she received from Terri Horman on June 4, the day Kyron went missing.

"Sometimes I talk on her e-mail with her five times a day it depends on the day but she was very short and to the point which is very unusual for her," Young told the paper. "She e-mailed me like three or four times that day which is kinda strange, normally it is a wordy e-mail."

Investigators have subpoenaed and are searching numerous computers and hard drives, but no one has been charged in the case.
<snipped>
Video at link