Natalee Case Discussion #814 4/5/09 - 4/8/09

[hotping]

It must be age.  I do believe I am talking to myself.

Back to my very own little hidey hole.

Later

Janet

Janet...You are not talking to Yourself....I for one Am reading every word its just that the revelations of the last day or so are confusing to say the least and I'm quite frankly still trying to absorb it all.....You have always helped Me to understand what is happening by Your posts and I really Appreciate You....Please come out of the hidey hole.....PLEASE....  

[Kermit]

Kermit,
Were RV and KM connected to the same address (listed in the white pages of the other two) by phone numbers that they had given others?
TIA

TV
LW
GG
all resided at the same address
They have different phone numbers

KM - need to find his

[2NJSons_Mom]

Kyle Kingman submitted his first post to the SM Natalee forum on December 8, 2007.  On March 3, 2008 ... Kyle posts a retraction ... a retraction that implies all his posts submitted in the past three months could not be believed.

It is something akin to denying your belly button.  It does not work.  Everytime you look down it is still there.

Janet

++++++++

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #739 3/3 -
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2008, 05:12:57 PM »

Not all that I write is my true feelings but is aimed at true purpose. Not everything is clear or should be taken just at face value.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2668.msg360015#msg360015

Janet, 

I noted the date he signed on when I went looking for that post covering his rear and had it in mind.  You are not talking to yourself...be assured I have read everything posted this morning.  There are just some things happening in real life here that have pulled me away in thought. 

[Kermit]

Kermit,
Were RV and KM connected to the same address (listed in the white pages of the other two) by phone numbers that they had given others?
TIA

RV
LW
GG
all resided at the same address
They have different phone numbers

KM - need to find his

correction - that should be an R not a T

RV
LW
GG
all live at the same address and each has a different phone number
KM - still need to find his address.

[hotping]

Anna
I have been meaning to ask all morning.. How are Your ribs or You OK? I keep getting phone calls and distractions and its hard to keep My thoughts on all these new happenings....but I'm trying...lol

[Lifesong]

Lifesong - I hear where you're coming from re those comments on Michelle's site.

I think in one of my first posts yesterday I said they were surrounded with what appears to be nonsense.

But that some do contain (what we know now) to be factual info regarding the contents of that cage is what really caught my attention.

The one comment about the bones having been found surrounded by a blue material is what is sticking with me.........

I agree Jen...but...the blue fabric wrapped around the bones is not visible until the sampling of the evidence.  Only when the sand berm is removed do we see the material-wrapped bones.

It still doesn't make sense to me.

[Keepthefaith]

MARACAIBO
Petroleumworld.com.ve, 09 04 2008 Petroleumworld.com.ve, 09 04 2008

La embarcación tendrá como función la reparación de tendidos y tuberías en Costa Afuera. The craft will function and repair of overhead pipes offshore. El proyecto permitirá un ahorro de Bs. F. The project will save Bs F. 9 millones. 9 million. En el espejo de agua existen más de 44.000 kilómetros de tubos que transportan crudo o gas. In the mirror of water, there are over 44,000 miles of pipes that transport oil or gas.

Hasta 2.300 roturas, averías y filtraciones en tuberías petroleras sumergidas en el Lago de Maracaibo reparará al año Petróleos de Venezuela (Pdvsa), división Exploración y Producción Occidente, luego de la contratación del buque panameño Gulmar Eagle. Until 2300 fractures, faults and leaks in oil pipelines submerged in Lake Maracaibo repaired annually Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), Western Exploration and Production division, following the recruitment of a Panamanian ship Gulmar Eagle.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.petroleumworldve.com/nota08040903.htm&ei=FpfbSa6MDKDhtgeLqfGDCA&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKaplan/Gulmar%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D10

Do we know who had the Gulmar Eagle at this time??

[Keepthefaith]

MARACAIBO
Petroleumworld.com.ve, 09 04 2008 Petroleumworld.com.ve, 09 04 2008

La embarcación tendrá como función la reparación de tendidos y tuberías en Costa Afuera. The craft will function and repair of overhead pipes offshore. El proyecto permitirá un ahorro de Bs. F. The project will save Bs F. 9 millones. 9 million. En el espejo de agua existen más de 44.000 kilómetros de tubos que transportan crudo o gas. In the mirror of water, there are over 44,000 miles of pipes that transport oil or gas.

Hasta 2.300 roturas, averías y filtraciones en tuberías petroleras sumergidas en el Lago de Maracaibo reparará al año Petróleos de Venezuela (Pdvsa), división Exploración y Producción Occidente, luego de la contratación del buque panameño Gulmar Eagle. Until 2300 fractures, faults and leaks in oil pipelines submerged in Lake Maracaibo repaired annually Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), Western Exploration and Production division, following the recruitment of a Panamanian ship Gulmar Eagle.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.petroleumworldve.com/nota08040903.htm&ei=FpfbSa6MDKDhtgeLqfGDCA&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DKaplan/Gulmar%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D10

Do we know who had the Gulmar Eagle at this time??

 29 Feb 2008

GeoLab Middle-East Branch

Geolab Srl has been operating in the region since May 2005 and in July 2007 completed the undertaking Survey and ROV Support Services on behalf of the various EPIC Contractors involved in the Dolphin Project utilising our in-house vessels DP Reel and Sentinel and also third party vessel Gulmar Eagle.

http://www.oceanologyinternational.com/page.cfm/T=m/Action=Press/PressID=104

[Kermit]

I will give John Silvetti the benefit of the doubt that his desire was that Dave and Beth would be afforded the opportunity to bring Natalee home ... home to rest on American soil.

I contend that Aruba struck a beneficial deal with John Silvetti ... a beneficial deal that implied that the contents of the trap would be retrieved from the trap and planted in the pond.  With the emergence of a witness ... Aruba would be assured that only Joran van der Sloot was implicated in the disposal of Natalee Holloway's remains ... only Joran van der Sloot who was a minor on May 30, 2005.

However ... Tim Miller's proclamation to Dave and Beth ... the revelation of the first set of ROV images on the internet ...  Kyle Kingman's own words and ... the exposure of further ROV images ... had not been anticipated.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks.

Kyle Kingman:  I'm being accused by Mos, the Polis, and J. Silvetti as leaking the photos ...

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Lets bring that theory a bit further along.

CAPS was friends with Cylde Burke he stated
Cylde Burke met with the witness and Helen Lejuez.

Isn't Kawish Mieiser friends or related to Kalpoe brothers?

CAPS, LW, Kawish and GG continue to convince the group they have now gathered from SM and they help convince the family that they need to come to Aruba and search the POND and they'll get Natalee back.

Didn't Judge Smit state that the Kalpoes were involved in body disposal?

So if remains were found in the pond, no one would have known that it was the trap/cage that contained Natalee which was removed by Aruban divers.

One set away from Dirtyhand?????
Clyde Burke
Kawish Mieiser
RV
LW
GG
Kalpoe brothers.

I wonder if their plan had worked, would that mean the Kalpoe brothers would have won their lawsuit against Dr.Phil?

[Kermit]

Lifesong - I hear where you're coming from re those comments on Michelle's site.

I think in one of my first posts yesterday I said they were surrounded with what appears to be nonsense.

But that some do contain (what we know now) to be factual info regarding the contents of that cage is what really caught my attention.

The one comment about the bones having been found surrounded by a blue material is what is sticking with me.........

I agree Jen...but...the blue fabric wrapped around the bones is not visible until the sampling of the evidence.  Only when the sand berm is removed do we see the material-wrapped bones.

It still doesn't make sense to me.

other then how'd they know it was blue material and not green or black or?????

[Kermit]

Anna try an ace bandage around your rib cage or a halter top that supports your ribs to easy the discomfort.

[Magnolia]

I have one question.  When did Jen and Freebirds first discover the post pertaining to
the cage/trap on Michelle's blog?

[Anna]

Anna
I have been meaning to ask all morning.. How are Your ribs or You OK? I keep getting phone calls and distractions and its hard to keep My thoughts on all these new happenings....but I'm trying...lol

Hotping, thanks for asking.  They are not as bad as I expected, fortunately.  Just a little sore.  Colt seems fine, too.  Will take his photo and post in Musings.

He is pretty.

[hotping]

Very Good Question Magnolia...

[Anna]

I will give John Silvetti the benefit of the doubt that his desire was that Dave and Beth would be afforded the opportunity to bring Natalee home ... home to rest on American soil.

I contend that Aruba struck a beneficial deal with John Silvetti ... a beneficial deal that implied that the contents of the trap would be retrieved from the trap and planted in the pond.  With the emergence of a witness ... Aruba would be assured that only Joran van der Sloot was implicated in the disposal of Natalee Holloway's remains ... only Joran van der Sloot who was a minor on May 30, 2005.

However ... Tim Miller's proclamation to Dave and Beth ... the revelation of the first set of ROV images on the internet ...  Kyle Kingman's own words and ... the exposure of further ROV images ... had not been anticipated.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  No one else has access or copies of the photos or footage. All fingers point back to me when this leaks.

Kyle Kingman:  I'm being accused by Mos, the Polis, and J. Silvetti as leaking the photos ...

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Lets bring that theory a bit further along.

CAPS was friends with Cylde Burke he stated
Cylde Burke met with the witness and Helen Lejuez.

Isn't Kawish Mieiser friends or related to Kalpoe brothers?

CAPS, LW, Kawish and GG continue to convince the group they have now gathered from SM and they help convince the family that they need to come to Aruba and search the POND and they'll get Natalee back.

Didn't Judge Smit state that the Kalpoes were involved in body disposal?

So if remains were found in the pond, no one would have known that it was the trap/cage that contained Natalee which was removed by Aruban divers.

One set away from Dirtyhand?????
Clyde Burke
Kawish Mieiser
RV
LW
GG
Kalpoe brothers.

I wonder if their plan had worked, would that mean the Kalpoe brothers would have won their lawsuit against Dr.Phil?

AHA!  A motive factor. . . . blame Joran and Paulus.

[hotping]

Anna
I have been meaning to ask all morning.. How are Your ribs or You OK? I keep getting phone calls and distractions and its hard to keep My thoughts on all these new happenings....but I'm trying...lol

Hotping, thanks for asking.  They are not as bad as I expected, fortunately.  Just a little sore.  Colt seems fine, too.  Will take his photo and post in Musings.

He is pretty.

Oh Good Anna....I'm So Glad You are OK....And I would love to see His picture....We really miss Our Horses but Family had to come first....

[Tamikosmom]

Lifesong - I hear where you're coming from re those comments on Michelle's site.

I think in one of my first posts yesterday I said they were surrounded with what appears to be nonsense.

But that some do contain (what we know now) to be factual info regarding the contents of that cage is what really caught my attention.

The one comment about the bones having been found surrounded by a blue material is what is sticking with me.........

I agree Jen...but...the blue fabric wrapped around the bones is not visible until the sampling of the evidence.  Only when the sand berm is removed do we see the material-wrapped bones.

It still doesn't make sense to me.

Lifesong

There is the blue tarp and the blue fabric (denim).  The blue fabric is what Kyle Kingman speculated was under the sand and ... what was discovered under the sand.

The blue tarp was located outside of the cage but ... Kyle Kingman speculates that it's purpose had been to cover Natalee Holloway's body. 

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

THE TARP

Kyle Kingman:  07-Jan we dove on the trap with Aruban divers and our ROV recording the dive. They found the piece of blue tarp and blue denim-like fabric, and other things I can't identify.

Kyle Kingman:  I am 100% confident other important items are at that site and can be found during processing of the site with a suction system.  The only confirmation of items sampled were blue fabric and the piece of tarp.  This is the only thing Richardson and Mos independantly confirmed.  Remember, they each only confirmed one piece.  One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp.  From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.


THE FABRIC

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I have one question.  When did Jen and Freebirds first discover the post pertaining to
the cage/trap on Michelle's blog?

I thought Lifesong brought it up, yesterday. 

[Magnolia]

I have one question.  When did Jen and Freebirds first discover the post pertaining to
the cage/trap on Michelle's blog?

I thought Lifesong brought it up, yesterday. 

I must have been channeling and missed it.

Do you remember when, 2NJ?

[hotping]

I have one question.  When did Jen and Freebirds first discover the post pertaining to
the cage/trap on Michelle's blog?

I thought Lifesong brought it up, yesterday. 

I must have been channeling and missed it.

Do you remember when, 2NJ?

I wasn't channeling but I missed it too....