Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

      (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/Natbird2.gif)

                            Let's Hope For Justice In 2008

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Natalee2.swf

Well? Where is everybody? Did I do it wrong?  ::MonkeyShocked::

They're probably all still catching up in the previous thread  ::MonkeyWink::

I think they are still in the old thread... reading...

 ::MonkeyCool::

Ok monkeys... I have to get some rest... keep the faith!

klaas, that is beautiful!

CBB, I love that pic of Natalee with the rainbow...It's beautiful!...

Night Mrs. Red! Rest well!

Does anyone have the link to the video with the Eng subtitles?

FoxNews.com no longer has a headline leading to the deVries-interview story. Greta reports on Gretawhine that there will be a news conference tomorrow at 12 (Aruba time? 11 Eastern time?) but does not say that Fox will cover it. Odd. Do they think there's no news story here any more? Or have they simply lost out to ABC?

dennisintn wrote in previous thread:

did i mention that jvds was going to be the spokesman for the new program? he'll appear in all the new advertisements and gielen and julia are writing the scripts for him to follow.
dennisintn


Dest replied:


Yep...I heard that...also heard that they have contracted with Anita to be the model for all ads and publications...the photo of Anita in her see-thru bikini, with her delicious sporter rubbing on a gallon of sunscreen, will launch the new campaign...

I apologize if this has been posted:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ARUBA_MISSING_TEEN?SITE=CADIU&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Footage claims to solve Aruba mystery

By MIKE CORDER
Associated Press Writer

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- Hidden camera footage broadcast in the Netherlands on Sunday showed Dutch student Joran Van der Sloot saying he was with Natalee Holloway when she collapsed on a beach in Aruba. He said he believed she was dead and asked a friend to dump her body in the sea.

"She'll never be found," he said.

<snip>

Okay, ABC news is all over it. Three lead-ins including a hype for their program tomorrow at 9:30 PM.

http://abcnews.go.com/

Greta writes: "Joran does not actually confess to killing her but with being with her when she died... he only confesses to disposing of a body... she died from natural causes"

That's right, natural causes.
* Like when you find a homeless guy in the alleyway behind your house. You cant tell if he is dead or just passed-out drunk so you bury him in your garden.
* Or like, when grandma falls down the steps and breaks her hip but instead of calling an ambulance you leave her there until she starves to death.
* Or kinda like, you are doing drugs with a woman you met at a bar earlier that night when she suddenly has some sort of convulsions and passes out; she might even be dead. So you drag her limp body to the bathtub and cut her into little piece. Then you shove the pieces down the garbage disposal. What is it about "natural causes" you people don't get?

We know that Beth visits us at Scared Monkeys. There is a thread that was created for her to hopefully find, after we saw the video teaser of her reacting to the DeVries Tapes. If you'd like to leave your sentiments for her, it's located here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2563.0

I'm sure it would mean a lot to her to know how we feel.

Thanks PV!

ABC bought the story so legally Fox cannot advertise for them, but Greg Jarrett and some attorneys were discussing this as it was being translated here.  One female attorney (probably a Refugee) was excoriating Beth and the others were all for convicting Joran.  Greg Jarrett stated whatever happens, "Joran is a despicable human being."

LOL, abc is stealing the 'scoop' from Greta (who owned the story, according to Fox).  Greta f'd up big time on this story!  It's only of international nature.  One stupid comment and still having Taco on, she lost her credibility. 

Greta!  Big story to lose! Dontcha think????   HOpe it was worth your time with dipshit!

This is just beautiful Klaas.

I certainly have used my share of tissues today.

Is this Daury????
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/daury1.jpg)
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/daury.jpg)

He states  Afraid of >> Not a fuc--- body!!!!

Forensic scientists will be asked to investigate and give their opinion on the physical condition of Natalee Holloway, before, during and after the time she spent on the beach with J.v.d.S., as he claims.

I can't even remember where I read this, but it is so  ridiculous.  How  can you opine about Natalee's condition, when the only input you have is from a liar.  It seems everyone in the news is missing this fact!!

I think Cuomo had the first "live" interview with Joran and as he and Greta are buddies, she talked Cuomo into letting her have a whack at Joran and that was the lengthy love-fest we saw with Joran and Greta, in which she tended to believe him.  I say he charmed her. 

Nothing about the interview on the BBC or on CNN. I did learn, however, that double-dipping your chips in the salsa does spread bacteria. You might as well kiss everyone at the party as dip your chips in the community bowl.

 ::MonkeyTongue::

Ya thats what I'm talking about. I realize its Aruba but modern concepts still apply to reporters, and judges.

Yes, that would be Daury.  I think some here bought into the "studying kind" a little prematurely.  He looks like all he is studying is "evil."  Do they offer courses in that?

Hi Tyler!

Good for Greg Jarrett!

Natural causes my white American Ass! There was no natural causes involved.
Nobody hides a dead body unless they caused the death.
We all know Joran is out of control, cannot control his temper.
Just look at the wine incident, and also I find very telling,
That Joran had to go to court after getting released this last time for a FIGHT in an unrelated matter. He says that guy hit him with a beer bottle, Yes right I am sure that is how it happened. NOT.

Ono, we missed you so many times, you just do not know!

"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.


"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"


"ME"!!!  Always about Joran!!  Man, just read these words...this is what's posted on the abc news link...just wait until more people hear this!!

ABC 33/40 in Birmingham just said that ABC has bought exclusive rights
to the story. The said that only ABC will have all of the details.
They showed footage of the De Vries show and hada young Dutch
reporter who has been in central Alabama working onthe case. 
She was appalled at some of the language Joran used and
the derogatory comments that he made about Natalee.  She said that he
referred to Natalee as a slut and a bitch and took no blame for anything.

Yes, you can only sign up for it in aruba though. 

Here's more from abc news:

But was she really dead?


"How were you so sure she was dead, Joran?" van der Eem asked on the tapes. "You know, people can also go into a coma."


"Yeah, I wasn't sure about that, but it really startled me to death," van der Sloot admitted.


"But she could also have been in a coma," van der Eem said.


"That's possible too huh," van der Sloot answered. "That's very possible."


Van der Sloot said he immediately began crafting an alibi.


"I have to do normal things," he said. "And I am going to casino tomorrow night so I'm on camera."

I am wondering if this Daury guy was visiting on Aruba that weekend for the concert and was staying at the Marriott.  There is something about the Marriott that just will not let go in my brain.  It just keeps popping up and popping up.  There is some "higher up source" at the Marriott who is involved in Natalee's disposal.  The phone call to "Bill's house," the repeated mention of Marriott with the pimps and their cronies, using a pay phone near the Marriott, Joran staying at the Marriott all summer with this girl when his family was obviously having financial difficulties over what he had put them through....I question someone involved with the Marriott who helped Joran and gave Joran "paid" days at the Marriott, compliments of the management.  This just makes me shudder to think that happened, but there is somebody in Marriott deeply involved here.

Oh my word! Thank you so much.  This case has broken my heart for so long - I had to pull away.

Thanks. That's a very good write up. I look forward to the show tomorrow.

Wouldn't they need Natalee's body to give an opinion on her condition... ::MonkeyConfused::

NOT natural causes...NOT od'd

Joran: "I only spent 2 hours with her. I fingerfucked her, she jerked me off, I just wanted to ask her for a blowjob when she started shaking. I didn't lose a nights sleep, I had to look good (the day after to not cause suspicion)"
Joran says "I still talk to DAURY" (through MSN).




i'd start gagging and throwing up too

Good Nite Monks! I sweep up the banana peels!

It sounds more to me that his hobby is CRIME.

the far reaching implications are the following

that a JUDGE was involved in making a GIRL disappear


thats what he is saying

the judge is paulus

paulus is daury

Hmmm, wonder what she means?  Inclined to believe Joran still?

Greta has responded to a few posts.  Here is one short comment about the Devries show....

Comment by Greta Van Susteren
February 3rd, 2008 at 9:41 pm
i wonder if this is the pay phone he used to call his father for a ride?? that was at one time reported???

http://www.peterrdevries.com/complete-story.htm

How a sensational hidden camera operation
solved the Natalee Holloway case

Almost half a year ago Peter R. de Vries, crime reporter, met Patrick van der Eem. Patrick was born on Curacao and is nowadays a successful entrepreneur in the east of Holland. He met Joran van der Sloot by complete coincidence in the casino. The two of them started talking and seemed to ‘click’. What followed were more meetings and soon Patrick noticed that Joran looked up to him and started to trust him. This is strengthened by the fact that Patrick pretends not to be interested in the Holloway-case.
 
- PATRICK: JORAN’S ‘BEST FRIEND’ -

When Joran returns to the Netherlands in 2006 he is overwhelmed by so-called friends and the press, who question him constantly about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Patrick at least is someone who doesn’t ask or so it seems. It becomes obvious that Joran likes to smoke large amounts of weed. This is why Patrick decides to pose as an experienced weed cultivator which makes Joran look up to him even more.

But Patrick is interested and suspects that Joran is involved with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. He gets this from the innuendos the 20 year old makes. Patrick doesn’t respond to these, but does approach our show with this story. Together with Peter R. de Vries they develop a strategy to get Joran talking about the case in front of the camera.

From the start it is clear that Patrick is indeed Jorans best friend. There are numerous complimentary text messages and a couple of phone calls, made in our company, to confirm that. Our plan is to use a car prepared with hidden cameras to create a relaxed environment for Joran to talk. In the second half of November everything is ready to go. Patrick will pick up Joran in a tricked out Range Rover to go and cruise around and of course to talk.

- ARREST RUINS PLAN –

But then, a day before we would start, the ministry of Justice ruins our plans. On the 21st of November 2007 Joran is arrested and brought back to Aruba. There are a couple of new facts in the judicial investigation, but Joran keeps his mouth shut and on the 7th of December he is a free man again and officially not a suspect anymore. Out of everyone, our insider Patrick is one of the first people he calls from Aruba. Patrick tapes the conversation.

Joran boasts that he was too clever for the police and that soon he will be back in the Netherlands. On the 9th of January he arrives at Schiphol airport and one day later he meets up with Patrick to see his new Range Rover, the car that has been prepared with three hidden cameras.

- THE WINE INCIDENT -

On the 10th of January 2008 we start our undercover operation. An advantage of the recent arrest is that Patrick can now bring up the subject naturally. During their first drive it becomes apparent that joran has a low opinion of the public prosecutor and the department of justice.  He declares that he wants to claim damages from everyone and is invited to speak on the Pauw & Witteman show. As luck would have it Peter R. de Vries will also be there. After the show Joran throws a glass of red wine in Peters face.

Two day’s after the famous wine-incident Joran gets into Patricks Range Rover again. Our cameras capture Joran talking for the first time in detail about Natalee Holloway. He confirms she’s dead and will never be found because ‘the ocean is big’. He also declares that he can never be caught because he was lucky.

Furthermore he relates that he was helped in the disposal of the body. Who this is or who these people are (Joran talks often in the plural), he won’t tell yet. What follows are four long drives in which our hidden cameras tape 15 hours of conversation.

- COMPLETE CONFESSION -

At last Joran gives a complete confession, in which he reconstructs in detail what happened on the fatal night of the 29th onto the 30th of May 2005 on Aruba.

He and Natalee were dropped off that night by the Surinam brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe in their silver-gray Honda Civic nearby the Mariott Hotel on Palm Beach.  This is more than 100 meters away from the so-called Fisherman’s Huts, of which Joran talked about to the police.

After that he and Natalee were making love on the beach, when all of the sudden Natalee started to shake and seemed to have died. Joran dragged her body to some bushes that grow alongside the beach and walked up to a payphone near the swimming pool of the Marriot Hotel to call a friend.

- THE FRIEND WITH THE BOAT -

Joran phones a person named ‘Daury’ who is half Dutch and half Aruban. A couple of other times Joran talks about the fact that he was helped by several other people that night.  Daury has a boat docked in front of the hotel in which he takes cruise tourists on ‘tubes’ and ‘bananas’.  Daury came instantly to Joran and together they quickly declared that Natalee was in fact dead.
Together they carried the girl from the beach into Daury’s boat. Daury tells Joran to walk home. He, the friend, takes off onto the ocean where he throws Natalee’s body out of the boat into the sea. After that he visits Joran at his home, he has an apartment in the garden of his parent’s house, to talk about what happened. Joran tells Daury he walked back home and  hid his shoes in a storm drain. Later on he sat some time behind his computer and the following morning he went to school as usual. The next night he went to the casino ‘just to be recorded on camera’.  In a cold premeditated manner he leaves behind traces which could clarify that he didn’t have time to kill Natalee. Very clever for a seventeen-year-old, but Joran is of course the son of a judge-to-be.

- HEARTLESS -

Joran shows no emotion towards Patrick when he tells him that he didn’t sleep one night less because of the whole situation. He also tells him that Natalee’s death was in fact quite fortunate for him. “Now I can abuse the whole situation”, he says indicating the book he has written.

Jorans friends Deepak and Satish, who have been arrested for this case several times, are completely innocent. Joran declares with pride that he has abused them to create an alibi for himself. He calls them “very stupid boys’”.
 

BUMP

in case anyone missed it  ::MonkeyCool::

I know, I know, you've had that feeling from the start, but I think Marriott is being used here as some sort of shield as usually, Marriotts are squeaky clean and run like a tight ship....[ you know how I like the corp ]....It's so hard for me to imagine anyone in management like that involved...........but, of course, how would we know?  Like I think when he visited with that blonde 'pretend date' that summer and they stayed at the Marriott - I think he was trying to blend in with the squeaky clean Marriott reputation. I'm probably all off base, but as having been with Marriott here, I just know that Bill Marriott is a seriously good guy and would not tolerate his name being associated with crime.  Even if the hotel is owned by others, Marriott has it's name on it if it is in charge of running it.  Bill Marriott cares about his good name.  Just a thought there.

Tyler: Voting Mitt? I am.

Did Paulus own a boat?  Just asking, because I think we need a boat.

I think Joran killed her when she laughed at his small penis.

I remember that very well klaas...hard to believe so much time has passed and that little puke is still jerking people around

Ain't THAT the truth!

I found this admission extremely troubling:

"I didn't say shit. They have nothing on me anymore. Even if they find her body with my sperm in it, they can't do shit. they're f***ing idiots."  

It seeems to say, it was necessary to hide the body, because there was evidence of intercourse. When you consider further that Joran admits she might not have been dead when he hid her in the bushes and placed her in the boat, it really makes a strong case that Joran wronged her is some way. He seems to be saying, I left DNA on her and I could not let her be found, I moved her to the boat, in whatever condition.

Now the Judge says these statements are not enough for serious charges and he will only approve a lesser charge of grave robbing. I don't see it that way.

I expect the only way forward is to find out who had the boat and assisted in the disposal. He initially said it was a long time friend that he called from a payphone and that person resides in Holland now. He then gave a name that I think was misinformation, as if he realized he had said too much. If the case is to move forward, this person needs to be found. Joran told us alot, but he is still lying.

Ono, I know the Marriott reputation but bad people use good people and their good names all the time.  I loved Bill Marriott when I met him back in the day and had dealings with him.  I have been doing MITTENS for weeks now.  :)  California looking good.  Maine came through!

there were other people that helped

that had a boat, but paulus sent joran home to have an alibi

paulus was out and about all night

What better way to beat the system, but to learn it (criminal law).  What better way to pull of his crimes!

Awwwwee, he's taking after his hero Taco!  How sweet :smt096

Well, it would probably cause most people to at least seize or laugh but if they laughed at him, he would probably get mad, beat the hell out of them and take them out to sea half-drugged, half-beaten to death and leave them for dead.  He never states he had sex with Natalee, but he did make a statement once that Natalee was a virgin.  That big pimple faced SOB.  I bet he has a small shoe size and what goes with it.

Pay phone at McDonalds

Spock, that is one comment that bothered me too.  It literally made me physically ill.....

We know Paulus is the one who said he would "take care of it, son," but who had the boat that needed the money that morning at 4 a.m.?

Is there another translated transcript of Joran's confession available or is the following the only one.

Thank you.

Janet

________

http://prdvtranslations.blogspot.com/

::MonkeyWink::

I agree spock .....I think he was starting to fear he was saying too much and just named a name and now I am sure that Daury would love to get his hands around the delicious sporters neck...

Lazlo at RU says that Drury was not in Aruba in May/June 2005
posted a long article in Dutch.
This is a partial translation.


Yet he denies knowing him well in 2005 (well enough to cover up a negligent homicide anyway)

"We played soccer together. We weren't that close at the time, though. For instance, I never went out with Joran and his group of friends to Carlos ’n Charlie’s.’ (dance club on Aruba whereVan der Sloot and Natalee went out on the 31th of may, the last night she was seen, ed.). Daury was not involved with Joran during the time Joran partied on Aruba. 'At seventien I left for the Netherlands to go to college. Since then we'd lost contact.

Dary really only got reaquinted with Van der Sloot when he was staying in Aruba in december 2007, after being in custody for the second thime because of the Natalee Holloway case. The two played poker together in the casino's in the hotels next to Palm Beach. 'I never asked him about Natalee. So many people here give him the awkward look already. It's a lousy thing everybody sees him like that, but I know the issue with Natalee is eating at him.’

Somehow, that does'nt sound like the guy who would jump in at the middle of the night and dispose of a body for Joran.   



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 364

 

well. my guess is someone that had a boat that paulus borrow

paulus did everything - IMO

That's the only place I know of right now where it's all together in one place.

You're right...it just makes me sick to think someone connected may be a bad guy;  Yeah...California looking good! Glad about Maine!  You're a good MITTENS woman! ::MonkeyCool::

No, that's his full time job.

Magnolia, if you are still here would you mind posting your information for the Aruba OM again?  Thanks.  I think this is an excellent idea and have forwarded my I Stand By the Girl message, I hope others do the same. ::MonkeyDance::

When did PaPaPaul call his little meeting of the the K2s and Joran?  Was it the morning he finished Joran's dirty work?  Sorry I can't remember.

And, was anyone else mentioned as being there? 

Thanks.

Thank you Klaas

I am desperately trying to catch up.

Janet

Yep, and the time that he called for that ride was at 4:00am.

Sadly he will kill again.From what i know that's how serial killers start out.killing animal's,slowly graduate to more heinous crimes,like rape,killing.Joran can't stay on Aruba and continue to commit crimes like that.Now Holland get's him.Does anyone know the name of the judge's name that made this ruling???

Yes, and he already said he would do anything to protect his son..

any word from the ship?

I cling to the hope that they will find something

No...but Lorenzo does/did...and kept it in the water.

Here you go!

OM Aruba (Papiamento homepage)


Hier komt de introductietekst


Copyright © 2004 Afdeling Voorlichting en Communicatie OM Aruba
Adres : Havenstraat 2 | Oranjestad | Aruba
Postadres : Postbus 1163 | Oranjestad | Aruba
Tel : +297 582 1415
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Email : om.aruba@setarnet.aw
Ontwikkeling en Beheer : Grip MultiMedia
 

I've been searching the previous thread for a link that I think was supposed to be the show with English subtitles. Did I misunderstand or am I just missing it?

Please remember what Joran said to Patrick, is a friend bragging to another friend. Joran is a sick lier and when he told Patrick his tale, the truth is there but twisted to fill Joran's ego. Daury is not his Father. The part about just go on about your daily life came from his Father but was twisted in his mind. Daury is a real person in this crime. Daury is a strong person who Joran knew. He tells this like he watched to many episodes of the Sopranos. Don't worry I'll take care of it. Really, it is sickening. He was a kid when this happened and made a stupid mistake not calling 911. He will regret this for the rest of his life. However short that will be.

yes, he did


paulus must be spinning right now

2+2 = paulus

JUST HAVE TO GET THIS OFF MY CHEST

I did not expect any more or any less of Joran in this confession.  It is just about what I expected.  I have always said that if she had died of natural causes, even from an overdose, Joran and/or his father would have sought help, taken her to the emergency room, called the friends at the Holiday Inn if and when she expired or was resuscitated, and Beth would have been notified.  Joran would have been a hero of some sort for rendering necessary help, but this was not NATURAL CAUSES. 

Further, I expected no more or less of the language he used and his "blame the victim" attitude, because we have seen and heard his Yenta mother, and he is only an extension of her greedy control.  We have seen her lying on TV, heard what she said to Beth & Greta, and witnessed what she raised and called a "child."  She raised a monster.  Normal, good, loving kind people do not raise these kinds of monsters.  He is a product of his environment.

Anita, Paulus, you are reaping what you sowed.  Paulus, you weakling.  You never stood up to that fat blob and told her that your children would need to be raised with morals and discipline.  You let her "woodstock" these children.  She has ruined your life which became warped because of your weakness and her control and in all probability she goaded you for not being a judge and then lied to make you look better, you weakling.  She controlled your family life, your children and has wrecked everything you worked and fought for and now your spawn has finished her off as well.  We hope Val will have enough decency and common sense to distance himself from your grasp and that Joran will no longer be around to kick poor Poppin' Fresh.  He is just a fat little guy who needs your love that you are unable to give him for cleaning out the vacuum cleaner that Joran sucked out of your household.  It's all empty now.  Everybody knows you for what you have done and what your #1 spawn has done.  Empty your vacuum cleaner.  Redeem yourselves.

Klaas, Red,

Anything from Jossy?

I wonder if van der Stratten (sp?) had a boat at that time?  He would certainly have a paternal attitude towards Joran and hasn't he known him all of his life?

He didn't name him tonight either. It's Lorenzo or Koen that helped dispose of Natalee with the Boat. WHat he was telling was half truth here.MO
-------------------------------
the friend is older

knows Joran all his life

he will never name him until the day he dies, as an honor debt for brining away the body

at one moment he moved no more, Joran went to a pay phone called the guy and they got rid of her

the guy says, you go home, I will take care of it

Joran is full of praise for the man, the infiltrator tells he will get pay for the man

Joran also said that he told this paternal figure not to call the police, just bring the boat. :)

This father figure called him 'son.'

I wonder also about GVC's father.

Frank - I know Red emailed Jossy with WTF? ...don't know if Jossy has replied though.

My heart is breaking for Beth.  Watching that video and ... listening to Joran van der Sloots words in regards to the last moments of daughter's life ...   ::MonkeyNoNo::

Janet

++++++++++

http://www.vkmag.com/videos/videos_reactie_natalees_moeder

I am wondering also if the reason Steve Croes inserted himself into this is because he saw what was going on.  We were told that a woman who saw two men putting a screaming woman into a white truck was the mother of Steve Croes' children, who worked in the hostelry business.

Tylergal - BRAVO!

Joran: "Something happened, I didn't kill her, the ocean is big, right? I got very lucking they never found her (no body no case). I think I'm in the clear, they wont find a body. Let me tell you I never talked about this to anyone. They dumped her in the ocean. I know people who could helped me, I'm not naming names. It's not my parents, it was a friend, with a boat. "


why in the world would he throw in  'it's not my parents' ???

Yes, yes...another possibilty.  I think it is a very close intimate with the van der Sloots who has power............and access to a boat.

PAULUS is DAURY

*******....yes...I personally still think it was Lorenzo....when I was making my phone calls quite awhile back, to the corrections institute in Aruba, when Lorenzo had been arrested, I was very disturbed to hear that Lorenzo was getting the same slap on the wrist from LEI, that Joran had recieved.

I still wonder at the *special* treatment he got...he only served 18 days in prison, for a much larger crime.  And, he too had a *private* closed door meeting with the judge who let him off scott-free.

Dest

WHY??

_______


http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/02/03/natalee-holloway-update-press-conference-in-arubatomorrow/

Investigative judge reopens inquiry against J. v.d. S. but refuses pretrial detention; prosecutor plans appeal

The investigative judge found that secretly taped conversations and video between J.v.d.S and a third person were sufficient reason to reopen the judicial inquiry against J.v.d.S by January 30, 2008.

However, the judge held that the tapes handed over to the Public Prosecutor by the Dutch crime reporter Pieter R. de Vries, were insufficient to order additional pre trial detention.

The Public Prosecutor’s Office will appeal the judge’s ruling on pre trial detention.

On January 20, 2008 De Vries showed a part of his material to two public prosecutors. The tapes show the moments on which J.v.d. S. tells his version of events for the first time to a third party and tells his story of the fate of Natalee Holloway on May 30, 2005. The contents of the tapess and the way J.v.d.S. ultimately tells his story create the impression with the Office, that this version of events could come close to the truth.

The Office responded positive to the question of De Vries whether the Office could use and would like to use his material. This is in conformity with the end of last year’s statement that the Office will investigate every clue to the case. The Public Prosecutor’s Office regards the material of a serious nature.
Hence the Office did not await the broadcasting of the program which had been announced by De Vries for February, 3rd, 2008, but acted speedily by requesting the reopening of the judicial inquiry by the investigative judge, which was granted by him.

Before requesting the judge to reopen the investigation, the Public Prosecutor wanted to review additional tapes that were recorded during this operation. This process to verify and validate the tapes was done on January 25th and 26th 2008. By February 1st the Office received the final materials.

It’s important to note that neither the Public Prosecutor Office or the Police has had any involvement with the activities of De Vries. Nor any influence on him or his team. In our view the material can be used for the purpose of the investigation.

The Office finds that the story of J.v.d.S corroborates to a large extent the results of the investigation to date. Despite the fact that the Office values the statements by J.v.d.S. properly, the Office is obliged to proceed judiciously. Confession evidence always requires a more thorough investigation.

It may be the case that in the eyes of the public the disappearance of Natalee Holloway has been solved by J.v.d.S.’s statements presented in the crime program of Peter R. de Vries. However, while video tape may present a strong case in a tv news show, it may be insufficient for a finding of guilt by a Judge. It is up to the Court to evaluate the materials and the statements, and to find out their significance in relation to other results of the investigation. It is not the Public Prosecutor’s Office’s position to refer in any way to the guilty question: that is for the Court. Apart from this again there is a big difference between the reality of a courtroom and the reality of television screen.

In summary, on Friday, February 1st the Public Prosecutor requested in the wake of the new materials the investigative judge to order the pretrial detention of J.v.d.S. The judge denied the request reasoning that the new materials did not meet his threshold for a new pretrial detention, a threshold he put very high because of earlier multiple arrests and pretrial detention periods concerning this suspect.
This means that the Office is legally not able to have J.v.d.S. arrested in the Netherlands.
The Public Prosecutor’s Office will appeal that decision.

The Office of the Public Prosecution and the police will continue their investigation into the story by J.v.d.S. The investigation will not be limited to Aruba. All materials put at our disposal by Peter R. de Vries will be checked and double checked. Forensic scientists will be asked to investigate and give their opinion on the physical condition of Natalee Holloway, before, during and after the time she spent on the beach with J.v.d.S., as he claims.

On Monday February 4th 2008 at 12.00 there will be a pressconference, held in the government pressroom in Oranjestad.

Noly I wondered the same thing.......His parents were involved in someway in this no doubt about it...JMO  ::MonkeyWink::

Whats odd about that story is Edwin Croes of top 95 was the one who reported that story to the Ale,from a tip that came in through the radio station. He is also the guy that the 2 freak psychics said witnessed Pitbulls Murder. Same guy who on June 9th hours after JK2 were arrested went on the internet and started emailing everyone to tell Arubans to fight back.

I think it is possible SGC may have witnessed something,but even more possible that before the sun came up they were near the beach/hotel area disposing of Natalee. Either temporarily or permanently. We also have 2 independent sources that said they saw people place a body in a white pickup from a dumpster behind one of the hotels. I forget right now but it was the Marriot or the Hyatt.

Every time Joran comes out with a story, we get closer to the truth, but never the truth. There are two obvious choices for whose boat was used. Both had boats out that night, one for the tatoo (SC) and one for a private party (SG). I think the Dutch will have to bring someone with a boat in for questioning now and that could break the case.

As I said earlier, this was kickoff.

We cannot let Joran van der sloot define Natalee Holloway. This misogyny must stop somewhere, it's one case that must be tried in people's souls.

Those friends and coworkers who are amazed at your passion, if a little confused about why "this case," you know, the ones that ask about it but don't know the details.

Now they know that tomorrow this case will be worldwide, the fires lit.

Retell the story to everyone you come in contact with, everyone. Now is a moment to re-energize from the pain.

We need to close, and we're not there. I cannot see myself as someone who can't close the deal, so to speak. And nothing has this much moral importance.

Tamikosmom, are you ready?

You are the Giants, without the champagne. I'll always remember this Super Bowl, alone, thinking of you.

What about the Kalpoes?  What about if they see that chit?  What does that mean? If they had nothing to do with this what was the big deal in the police van?  Why call Joran and say we hit the jackpot?  Why even tell the HI lie in the first place?  Deepak had to know what happened.  Deepak is dense alright, but for goodness sake is that stupid?  Come on! Deepak did you even try to help Natalee?  Why did that send him into a tail spin? 

What about Steve Croes?  Is that island overrun with idiots?  Why tell corroborate the HI lie? That is about as stupid as taking a dead body out to the ocean with no questions asked. 

What about Satish?  How's the girl?  What do you mean how's the girl?  Why even ask such a question?  Something happened to her BEFORE the beach drop off...if there was such a drop off...if they were even at the beach.

What about all the things we do know for a fact..they don't fit Joran's story and if ALE and Mos think this is going to wash they need new brains.  Make the 4 AM pickup fit the cell phone and computer log in times.  How can you be on your computer and out in the hood at the same time?  You can't.  The story doesn't fit what we know...

Because the "people" are close to/ in same social circle/ on the same power structure as his parents?  Or.....because it WAS his parents? The "people" have power and connections.

Has anyone been able to determine why Joran threw away his shoes?  Having done that I doubt he walked home. 

Great post Tyler..... Poppin Fresh teehee

question # 1

if joran didnt rape, drug or kill Natalee

why not just leave her on the beach

question #2

he spilled everything about this murder to his friend in the car EXCEPT the real name of
his helper........ why give a fake name


i know the answers........and im sure most here do also


but some dont, but they are questions the SLOOOOOTER should answer


here are the answers

because she didnt just die... she was drugged and raped and beaten


because he would never want to reveal the name of his father.......
to anyone because if papa sloot goes down, so does joran

they are forever linked to the DEATH of a beatiful young lady that had more potential
than either a failed judge or a failed gansta ever could hope to have

He will never ever name Lorenzo either or his father..You know Destiny,It was reported at RU that Lorenzo was let go scott free because of mistakes made by the OM or prosecuters office,and will never serve time because of those mistakes. Your contact told us he had a private mediation with a dutch judge and it would never go to trial. It's possible it was a mistake but I still have the email from Jossy that says Lorenzo was nailed with a cache of weapons and was looking at a great deal of time just for that. But that was when he was called Van Gijn and the next day we were told he had no weapons.

Joran, we've known it was you from the first night when Beth, Jug and their friends showed up at your gate. Now you are on tape admitting to getting rid of the body. We will pursue you until justice is done.

A few weeks ago I recommended that the Aruban police should look at all the phone records of the evening and rule in anyone the family knows. The list should include other judges and anyone of authority. Well the good news on that island at 2-3:00am there weren't that many phone calls total. Possibly as few as 100. Since 90% or more of the island was asleep. Even Joran didn't call Deepak that late. Instead he used texting on a computer. My guess one number will come up and cross reference that with boat owners in the Mariott marina. It would take too long to trailer a boat and put it into the water.

Good find, I didnt know about the "Its not my parents, it was a friend" statement

Found at another site regarding Joran and the PDV expose, but thought it worth posting here.

 ::MonkeyDance::35 seconds of water-boarding would have nipped this crap in the bud. I don't advocate this for teenagers. Rather, only for murderers that pose a threat to American citizens. ::MonkeyDance::

What about cleaning out the car at 2 a.m. .......?
What about... "you would be surprised how simple it was that night"?
What about the casino video with Papa Sloot sitting at the table with Natalee?
Why get rid of the shoes?

Too many questions rolling around in my mind right now...

Oh, and I forgot about Natalee fell and hit her head...

When I compare the translated transcript of Joran's words and ... then watch this video ... I am convinced that the lack of remorse ... the lack of caring ... THIS GUY HAS NO CONSCIENCE.

What are his parents thinking?  The happenings regarding the morning of May 30, 2005 would have been the perfect opportunity to get there son the help he so desperately needs and ... the family of Natalee Holloway would not have been put throught almost three years of a H--- on Earth.

Hey ... Paulus and Anita van der Sloot do not have any conscience.  They could care less about the risk their son poses to other "Natalees".

The hate I have in my heart at this moment is more directed at Anita and Paulus than ... Joran.

Janet

++++++++++


VIDEO OF JORAN'S CONFESSION

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/40829/08150258/joran_loopt_volledig_leeg.html

Good night all....I am fading fast.  See you tomorrow. ::MonkeyCool::

paulis was the wold sitting across from natalee at the table

he is the WOLF


paulus is daury  ::MonkeyCool::

 ::MonkeyLaugh::IMO,
Joran is guilty 105 % !
When Natalee started to seize,
or passed out, he had NO right to assume she was dead.
He threw a body into the ocean, which was probably still alive.

This creepy young man has had months to fess up. IF he
had a conscience he would have told LE.

IMO, Joran is a murderer, without a doubt in my mind,
and he is a
S
O
C
I
O
P
A
T
H

!

 ::MonkeyWink::

And another thing...

If Joran was BSing this guy, why not blame it on the Kalpoes?  If you are going to BS, say you had sex with her and left her with the Kalpoes.  Place the blame on them.  Placing the blame on yourself makes no sense whatsoever.  I can see bragging about having sex with a girl but not disposing of a "maybe" dead body. 

I don't know about all the questions, Cubbee, but IMO, Paulus' mind was racing and I think he was hoping he could keep Joran from being connected in any way and had K2 totally clean the car to erase all traces that both she and Joran were in the car. Maybe he had Joran call to tell them to do it.

BTW: DESTINY I had missed your post in all the news, and am sorry. Check the avi thread.  ::MonkeyWink::

Nite Ono

Sleep well, Ono. Go lay your little monkey head down and catch some zzz's !
I hope I will be a Grandma tonight....

Joran knew something was up. He uses they.  Who is they?  They is more than one person. I would bet that ALE knows who "they" is. Maybe her body is not in the ocean?  Joran has yet to tell the truth about anything.  With Aruba even weird is beginning to seem normal.  ALE and Mos will not look for "they".  There will be nothing done other than what is happening right now.  We all have known Natalee was dead for a long time now.  PTB want it all to go away because they can't fix it...they can't get the body back or they can't find it and won't make the effort.  They just want it to go away...Joran said she died with him on the beach.  He said she had a seizure or something and died.  Joran confessed...Mos will tell you there is nothing new to hang your hat on...go away you stinking Americans and leave us to our drugs and gambling.  The only thing we want from you is your money.

Obsever...I was told by my contact that what Lorenzo was busted with, the names of the other 3 men who were jailed with him...all the charges against them...
and even the contact was suprized with the outcome.

2 of those men stayed in prison...but not Lorenzo, he was first to get out with all charges dropped.

I'm still convinced, until I see a DNA test proving otherwise, that Lorenzo IS Jorans half brother...birds of a feather flock together...eh?

Deepak and Satish, well mostly Deepak could finalize this if they wanted to :
a.) Why did Joran call him on the 3 am phone call ? What did he say ?
b.) What did Paulus say to them in their little chats ? The ones where Deepak didn't remember ?
...........
There is probably crying in the Sloot house tonight too. This is the end of the road for them too in Anita's little fantasy of a life that was going to be three happy kids who were successful people.
...........
What did Joran have on Daury ? That Daury was screwing around on his wife when she was away in Holland for her mother's birthday ?

http://www.peterrdevries.com/complete-story.htm

The Sociopath Doesn't Fall Far From the Tree
[/b][/size][/size]

The language regarding the Aruban Government Agencies isn't only used by JVDStoolscum, he has heard it often used by the sperm & egg donor.  The value of money over integrity has been passed on to him by the sperm & egg donor.  These bafoons raised him to be just what he is, a Sociopath.

The Judges of the Netherland Antilles have the morals & common sense of PERVERTS.

I agree, Kiwi. They should also definately include Van der Stratten's!

LOL... that is because the guy is probably Paulus, whom incidently, the above description fits ....

The idea that Van Der Straten tried to make a deal that would send him to a mental hospital seems more likely now. 

you are exactly right.  jvds/paulus even researched drugs/alcohol on the internet that night so they could pick the right symptoms to attribute to her actions that would indication something she might have taken herself.  these people are intelligent, and as close to calculated evil as i've ever known.
dennisintn

You betcha,and he will never ever name Lorenzo or PVDS..It will have to be someone else who breaks this case wide open..
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa118/Observer00000007/LorenzoPaulCompare2.jpg)

Can any Monkey tell me what time Good Morning America comes on and ... what network.

Thanks you.

Janet

____________


ABC News has obtained exclusive U.S. rights to this stunning new information caught on tape and will air a 90-minute special edition of "20/20: The Final Hours of Natalee Holloway" Monday at 9:30 p.m. ET, as well as special coverage of the case on "Good Morning America" on Monday.


http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4222253&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4222253&page=2
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4222253&page=3
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4222253&page=4

yep
paulus is daury

Because he knew that all that he could beheld accountable for was disposing of a body.  That is 6 months max in Aruba. Most likely the judge, friend of Paulus would treat him as a juvenile and let him off with time served.  It is his word that she died of an overdose on the beach.  He did nothing to her...she just died.  He knew this bragging session could solve it all...Kalpoes don't have to answer any questions, because ALE is not going to ask them. Paulus remains hidden...case closed. The Kalpoes would tell all they knew if they were the only ones to hang for this. Joran knows they are a liability.

joran has confessed again  ::MonkeyConfused:: ::MonkeyConfused::

they cant hide this one

I think he was trying to impress this guy and thats why he took it all on himself.  I still think the kalpoes were there.  

Yeah, doesn't take a mental giant to figure that out (which we all know Joran ain't)....why the hell blem it on yourself???

Obsever...I was told by my contact that what Lorenzo was busted with, the names of the other 3 men who were jailed with him...all the charges against them...
and even the contact was suprized with the outcome.

2 of those men stayed in prison...but not Lorenzo, he was first to get out with all charges dropped.

I'm still convinced, until I see a DNA test proving otherwise, that Lorenzo IS Jorans half brother...birds of a feather flock together...eh?
Oh...CBB...I get to take off my Christmas Garb and send it to the dry cleaners for next year?

THANK YOU DAWLING....You do dress us so well ;-)_

Thank you *******.

Janet

sounds like, to me, he was currying the favor of this man who was playing the gangster role in order to make crime his vocation instead of a hobby.  he's got more loose screws than a hardware store.
dennisintn

Good Morning America is on ABC channel 7.  It airs at 7am PST but check your local listings.

joran is a killer

I think Joran called Lorenzo and Lorenzo called Paulus.  They sent the Kalpoes to
establish alibis.  One was dropped off at Joran's apartment and one went to the
Kalpoe house.  The PMs and the phone calls were between the two Kalpoes.
that is why they knew so little, but were involved in the rape and were afraid
to talk.  Joran admires Lorenzo's criminal lifestyle and sees how he beats the
system...but fears his connections.  I don't know if all three went on the boat
or if just two of them did, but I don't think just one could throw her overboard.

Sleep with the Angels ONO...

It is a house of cards, or lined up dominoes...

One card falls and all the rest will fall as well -- all the way to the top... The exclusive club for procurement just lost it's top pimp whose sociopathic, pyschopathic indulges just frothed to the top and dragging with him one of their own, a future judge-wanna-be got in too deep...  From here the truth will continue to surface and more heads will roll (or alternatively the clean-up crew will just eliminate several of these mouthpiece scumbags to try to restore the incurable insanity that pervades the entire Dutch system.

don't forget that mip6 was working at the marriott when natalee disappeared.
dennisintn

He can't implicate anyone that knows the truth or was involved in any crimes VS Natalee. Especially the Kalpoes,If he blames anything on anyone that had anything to do with this they will take him down. Funny how he skips over everything and Patrick never asks him anything imporatnt,like why Natalee would be having convulsions and dying. Did he make it to school the next day? We heard nothing about anything that we have always wanted to know,Joran isn't that stupid and never fully trusted this Patrick. Joran was trying to impress him and admired him,I am sure he told Joran his war stories also. If he would have waited a few more months he may have gotten the full truth.MO

He really did tell the guy what he wanted to hear,even if most of the story was BS. I do think there are lil truths in this admission. Like the Marriott,Friend with a boat that has known him all his life that he will never name,Joran being with Natalee when she died and higher ups being involved.

I'm glad the ABC show starting at 9:30 Eastern is going to go until 11, straight through Greta's hour. Greta would have to come up with "Monica Lewinsky Today" to even tempt me slightly in the time period.

I don't know for sure what Jorin has on Papa...but my gut/intuition tells me it's on video somewhere...before this horrible event with NAT, they were all pretty loose with the vidcams...

I agree with you, I feel that they got excited too quickly that they had cracked the case... I just wish they had played it out a little longer and got the full truth....

deepak told johns that they met around the pool and made up the holiday inn story along with "jvds' family".  they used this story when beth and family went to their house that first night on the island.  that was before natalee's disappearance was known to anyone but the hi and the beach patrol.
dennisintn

Goodnight, Monkeys. I don't know how much tangible progress was made today, but the world sure got another good look at the Sporter. If Daury = Daddy, a lot of the pieces fall into place. We still need a boat and its owner.

Trauma to the brain will cause seizure activity...

klaasend I respect you with all my heart, but all the posters here come from different backgrounds. Me, I come from the pushed nose crowd. It is how you were brought up and who you hang around that makes your interpretation different from others. That said...This is a friend bragging (trying to impress a friend) in a world not all the readers here can understand. Truth is in every word Joran says but exaggerated.

YouTube of the confession part with English subtitles although sometimes they are hard to read:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmNyRMUYCNo

We have suspected that Koen and Joran are related which means anyone in that family would have known Joran all his life.  Koen is also older than Joran.  Koen's family has a boat.  Little brother, Sander, had his phone 'stolen' on May 30th.

We also have suspected that Lorenzo may be related to Joran.  He is older and has a boat.  Loranzo is the type of person Joran looks up to.  Rumor has it Lorenzo has some experience in removing bodies from when someone drowned in his pool.

Two interesting possibilities.

FWIW, Fox has the interview news story once again.

Okaydokey.  I am going to take a shot at some of the mysteries of this whole thing.

Deepak and Satish wanted to be big men about town.  Their only way to achieve this was to chauffeur Joran around town and have the appearance of being “somebody,” while Joran was using them all the time for “a ride.”  Remember he says they have a “fat Toyota” in his statement.  Short of knowing the strict translation, I am going to take that to mean, it was a “hot car.”  It looked good to the girls and the guys were in envy, a perfect ride for a “sporter” to have his “slaves” drive him into the evening with his latest conquests. 

In some sick way, K2 got a thrill from this and perhaps they were voyeurs , or not.  There is the mention of “the tape” that “the girl” would find repulsing.  I think at that point, even Deepak and Satish realize they have pushed too far.  Natalee thinks K2 are the jerks and demands they leave her and Joran along the beach.  She has seen the sharks, she has been in the car with them.  They acquiesce and leave Joran and Natalee at the beach, which is probably more than even Joran had bargained for.  He now has Natalee alone, and he can take advantage of her in anyway, shape, form or fashion.

Deepak states in his Skeeters tape that “she was beautiful, she looked like an angel,” or something to that effect.  I feel that he was pretty glommed by Natalee when she was dancing and could only dream of what it would be like to be with her, so he goes on line with his friend, Croes, and lives a fantasy as if he was in a porn chat room.  He is fantasizing at this point.

Later, he finds out what Joran has done because Joran calls him in need of help.  The long phone call.  Joran is holding while Deepak is trying to find an accomplice to get the mess straightened out, a friend with a boat.  Deepak and Satish realize at this point they need to clean the car because this is bigger than it was when they left them alone on the beach. 

Fine friend Joran is now, but it’s too late.  Deepak is the adult.  Paulus has been summoned to pay the bifrons.  His wheels are turning.  He needs to get Satish and Deepak into this so they can help Joran cover his tracks (or at least make up new tracks and new trails not covered).  Paulus has done one of these boys a legal favor, not sure which but it has something to do with a car, a “choller” and a gun.  These guys are not as street-savvy as they think they are and know little about the law, so Paulus has them “over the barrel,” those same old platitudes rushing forth about Deepak being held responsible since he was seen driving the car, the adult, the owner of the car, etc., etc. 

Deepak and Satish have been admonished to stick with the story.  Enter Steve Croes who has witnessed this.  He has told someone and it got back to D&S Kalpoe that he wants to be paid off for what he saw.  He loses his job for some reason and he is rewarded with a better job at C&C, thanks to the owner, who knows girls are being drugged there and SGC can prove it, so he is rewarded with a job to keep quiet.

Deepak and Satish are in this up to their eyeballs now, yet Deepak keeps trying to make Satish appear innocent.  They now view themselves as folk heroes on Aruba, to be celebrated for outsmarting an American woman looking for her daughter.  They make public appearances at such places at C&C, thinking that girls will be falling all over them and short of that, now they are stuck.  That did not happen.  No one is willing to run the risk of being their best friend.  Others in the community who know what really happened view them as “Joran’s butt-buddies” who are willing to “take the fall for him” because of their own stupidity and desire for 15 minutes of fame.

The recordings in the police van are the most revealing for me.

“If they find the girl, you are going to get 15 years.  “If they find the girl, they are going to see all that shit.”  “Your own father, unbelievable.”  See Father has promised K2 if they keep him and Joran out of this, they will have free rein in Aruba, to do as they please, to come and go and no harassment about those nasty little immigration rules. 

These two are still falling on their own pitards and it is too late to turn back now because they are suing Dr. Phil for their own words on that tape which has been proven to be uncut by the FBI.  What these two “fall guys” do not realize is that they sued Dr. Phil at the urging of AHATA who were tired of them and were trying to cut the umbilical cord and “doctored” a tape for the Kalpoes to use.  That is not the original tape and a few people in Aruba know that, but they gave them the doctored tape, hoping that would get them off their backs and at very least, they would be able to stay occupied by suing Dr. Phil instead of fingering bubba and poppa.

K2 allowed Paulus to build this house of cards for them.  They are trapped in it and have no way out now.  It's too late.  Skeeters would have listened and helped, Cliff Van Zant would have listened and helped.  They had faith that it was Joran alone, but K2 refused the help offered.  The cards about to fall and Dr. Phil's suit will be for naught.

he didn't call 911 because they would have found the details of her injuries/rape/drugs/things that would prove criminal actions against her.  this is not a normal l7yr. old boy.  the f.b.i. psychologist judged him to be a sociopath, a pathological liar, and having long term anger management problems and a long history of running his own house and completely getting his way.
dennisintn

Yes, and I'm probably thinking like a girl  ::MonkeyWink::

Klaasend:

Well your board is all litup...lots of hits...hard to get on...

Did receive an email from David...he wanted to wait after Joran Story for the next Move.

Have split the riddle in 2 documents, soon in MBox.

Working and lurking all day, thinking and waiting so as not to strain server even more.

Just a couple of thoughts.  No one disposes of the body of someonw who just dies of natural causes in your presence.  It is ludicrous for anyone, (Greta, ALE, Aruban judge) to suggest this is normal or even possible behavior.

And secondly, I wish deVries had kept up the taping a little while longer so that Joran might eventually tell who Daury truly was.

Beth gave ALE the suspect and now deVries has him confessing but ALE can't even pin down whose boat was used?  Pathetic.

.

Thank you Klaas.

Special thanks to ... Red, Dugga, Klaas and all the other zoo keepers.  I am truly appreciative of all the time and effort that you have given to provide a forum that has meaningfully upheld the family of Natalee Holloway from the beginning in their quest for answers.

Also ... special thanks to all Monkeys who kept the forum updated this afternoon in regards to the happening encompassing the "confession" video.  The posts that provided insights made for good reads.

I was away for most of the day ... family dictated.  It too me three hours but ... I did manage to catch up.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet
9:55

 

That's true.  Mark Purcell, right?

BINGO....that's why Joren has become the liability, they never thought he might be...it's all crumbling now...the foundation is shaking!

Robots has been saying this forever...save a cigar for me Sweet Pea ;-)

I have not gotten a chance to watch the video yet, but I have read many of the comments.  It sounds like the Dutch reporter and his sidekick did a great job with this, but I wish they had not moved so quickly to release this information.  I wish they had continued this charade for at least a few months to see what additional information Joran might have revealed.  As I understand it, these tapes were made since his last release just a few weeks ago. 

Don't get me wrong -- those guys have done a tremendous service, but it would seem that with additional time and patience additional, even more detailed information may have been forthcoming from Joran.  Has the reporter said why they did not continue the secret recordings for an additional period of time (i.e., was there some falling out between Joran and the guy who got him to talk)?

I can follow that. So is there anything in what he says that helps find his cleaners?

I am thinking this story has less to do about Natalee and more about protecting PVS.  Its all about the coverup. They could care less about Natalee, to them she was an accident.  Maybe Juron isn't as stupid as we think.  Maybe he knew exactly what he was doing/telling.  It would make much more sense to sacrafice Juron (or let him sacrafice himself)  knowing his punishment wouldn't amount to a hill of beans, than to let the secrets of PVS and his cronies out. The consequences of PVS being investigated would be much more embarrasing to the Island and involve so many high up people.  By telling his tales he is protecting everyone involved except himself, which doesn't seem to be his style.  Juron will get the punishment, everyone else is protected, we go away (they wish) and life goes on on the sinking island of Aruba.  JMO

I don't know if that even makes sense to anyone, its late here and I appologize.

Somebody has told this seizure story before!  Why else would they
be asking Dave if Natalee had ever had seizures?

Kippy, you are right , they don't care one wit about Natalee or her family....
You are also right that they wish we would go away......

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003741183_aruba09.html

As missing-teen case cools, Aruba turns against family
By Carol J. Williams
Los Angeles Times

"I've spoken with all of the suspects," she said. "I don't believe any of them did anything to her."

Tylergal....AWSOME!!!!!

What a read....WOW.....I'll be first in line to buy your book...

Dest

This has got to be Lorenzo or Koen!!!!!But Koen is not really older.MO

"Its a Big Ocean"
"The time I spent her was max 3.5 hours" 12:30 to 4am?
"I was very lucky to get away with it"
"If they would have found the girl I would have been screwed"
"She will never be found again"
"They dropped her into the sea?Yes? Yes"
"Im prefer not to tell names,Because he has always had my back"
"Look,this friend is quite clever and he's a bit older,We have been friends since kids"
"I've never told anyone about this man.Its not easy"
"I'll never tell his name,I will take it to my grave"
"I'd give my life to help him"

She can't see beyond the war protestors and her Birkenstocks.

Julia Renfro
Seattle Times
June 4, 2007

Yes, ALE has heard this all before.  In his recent interview with Dana, Jug, too, said he was asked if Natalee had a history of seizures or epilepsy. 

Why on earth would ALE be asking these parents about this if they had not heard Joran's version of events in the past.

And since there was no history, it's too much of a stretch to take Joran's word that this just happened without any reason.

.

I think if we knew the whole truth it would be even more shocking that what we think might have happened. I think the Kalpoes were sexually involved (deepak said as much in an email). I think Paulus was involved from the time Natalee died. Of course Joran, called his father when his date died. We know van stratten helped to undermine the investigation and that Jahnsen deliberately arrested the security gurds when she knew they were innocent. We know the Judges are personal friends of the Sloots and changed the search warrant to restrict the search. The crime itself was uglier than we can imagine, the talk of a head wound in the initial alibi was not misdirection. It was said because they feared the body could wash up, Joran even said he was lucky the body was not found. This is a hideous crime by three suspects with a government coverup.

Did you notice DeVries never mentioned the coverup? Thats because he knows only how far he can push the real story.

My head is spinning. I left at 4:10pm central when the SM server blew up.  All I can say is that De Vries nailed it. He did what no one else could hope to accomplish. As I warned before ... multiply his "confession" by 10 and you get the "big picture."

I did not see the video yet, but based upon synopsis information:

It seems as though it was more simple than we have over-analyzed it to be. I think the following can be safely deduced. There was a date-rape drug, of some sort, administered on Natalee, while she was in CnC. The four of them left the bar with Natalee, while the substance took its initial effects.  SK, DK, JVdS, and NH drove around the island, while the substance took full effect. Along the way, there was probably making-out going on between Natalee and Joran. Joran probably figured that he could score with the incapacitated Natalee, and requested to be dropped off by K2 at a spot, close (but not too close) to the hotel where Natalee was staying. The effects may have taken place while still in the car, but if not, had certainly began taking serious effect upon Natalee.  No, on the beach, he continued his version of romance. At some point, Natalee died of a combination of alcohol and drugs (the substance administered, while at Cnc). Joran, now panicking over being in the presence of a deceased Natalee, has to make on the spot decisions.  He probably figure that a dead tourist would not look good for him, whether or not it was an accident. Taking a dead tourist tot the hospital would not even look got for him. Wrongly, he makes the choice to disappear the body. First, he pulls her off the beach and hides her in any dark foliage that is closeby.  He walks towards hotels, texting DK.  This was probably the 8 minute call. SK, the least involved, in my opinion, probably goes home and falls asleep, as stated. DK, probably on the computer, as he indicates in PVs, sporadically splits attention between online friend from Florida and Joran. In DK's mind, he knows Natalee was not in good shape when he had last seen her. SK does not ask about her until the next day, as he, too, knows that Natalee was not in good shape when he had last seen her. Joran makes it to a pay phone and manages to call home.  Someone in the house, Paulus or Val (under instruction from Paulus) get on the computer as Joran and casually browse the internet.  Meawhile, Paulus now gets involved.  Someone with a boat, as confessed, now enters the picture.  Natalee, still hidden away in darkness or in foliage along the beach, is now drug towards the water and loaded into an awaiting boat, which pulls up close to shore.  If it did not pull up close to shore, than it pulled close enough, even if the body had to be floated out to the awaiting boat.

How much information was given to DK? DK, more than likely, has shared information with his brother, SK.  They may be in this story today because (1) they will seem as though they did not rat out a friend (seeming noble among peers and knowing that their lack of guilt would eventually set them free), (2) they may have been in on the administering of substance at CnC (whether being the dealer or actually placing it in the drink), (3) Paulus reinforcing their need to remain silent, assuring them lack of recovery of a body, and (4) publicity, with potential to monetarily gain from the situation.

Who was the boat owner? - The million dollar question.... Good guesses would be Koen, Steve Croes, Lorenzo. Paulus was probably present. Telling would be if Joran truly went to school, as it was probably encourage so as not to spoof anyone that an "out of the ordinary" event had occurred to his teachers and classmates.  Nonetheless, at school or not, her body was probably dispoded of that evening, as it is starting to to seem.  Another good question to clarify - Were the fisherman's huts truly broken into that evening for purposes of utilizing the missing items (crab trap, knife, etc..) to assist in the disposal of the deceased Natalee?

Rambling a bit, and maybe wrong, but irrelevant suspicions would include: (1) was Paulus in the casino tape, (2) did Paulus withdraw money in the middle of the night (withdrawl of monet would only prove that Paulus ventured out in the wee hours of the night and became immediately involved).

Interesting thought to consider... Joran, Paulus, and boater were speeding out into the ocean, and away from the coastline (maybe from 3AM - 530AM, just guessing), all the while prepping the body for final disposal, once destination was reached.  To make sure Joran went to chool, and after completing dumping of body, dropped back off to shore earlt in morning. Do we believe: (1) bus stop theory, Paulus drove him to school - Joran near Loenzo's home, or (2) phone call at approximately 630AM (Steve Croes) ??

What has been bogus along the way, in our collective thinking? Rock scene, concrete around pool, furniture delivery, belt discovery, Paul Brough, Posner, Sander losing his phone, columbian necktie (unless he was the boater), Pitbull (unless he was the boater), the landfill, the incinerator, lion's den, rave party, GVC, Guido, etc..

What is still unanswered, for me: (1) gardner seeing boys near racquet club, (2) next day at raquest club, and in casinos, (3) looking sweaty when posse arrived late at their house, and others that I can not think of right (feel free to add to my little list)...

Bottom line. Hard to corroborate date-rape drug, if body not discovered. Must accept accidental death theory, if body not discovered. Illegally disposing of a body would definitely be an appropriate charge, accident or not. Can it be proved, without a body, despite his taped confession. Death, can not be conclusively be declared without body. Maybe I am wrong here, but his defense will probably contend that it is more than logical to suspect dead body; however, it can not be concluded as fact unless dead body is discovered. Another appropriate charge would probably be obstruction of justice. Lies and Paulus' manipulation of influential players, within the investigation.

One thing that would change the dynamics would be Natalee's body. DNA and forensics would show substance (or lack thereof) and then the argument would definitely come into play about whether its administration caused the death (equating to manslaughter), semen - no big deal ("she was coherent when I had sex with her... she consented...then died after sex"), or injuries (likely to be explained through the disposal - "her lifeless head hit the side of the boat"). Even if her body was found, illegally disposing of a corpse and obstruction of justice of justice are the most likely to be prosecuted upon.  Joran was a minor, poor Joran, he has a good record, future ahead of him, been traumatized over the last two and a half years, please show some leniency. A few year sentence, at maximum, only has to do half the time (a day good time for every day spent in jail), subtract time already spent in jail, Joran would be out in no time...

I am just rambling...good thoughts, though, I think....

 

Good post Tyler..... I always enjoy those posts of yours.....wish I had that skill....you always seem to sum it up so eloquently....

That could be true kippy.  But I think Joran is too dumb to keep quiet.  He is his own biggest fan.  Keep talking sporter.

Did the beheaded man from the refinery own a boat? 

I totally agree! He is protecting who helped him,who witnessed the murder,where it really happened and what really happened to her.

It wouldnt look real cool if he told Patrick he hit her in the head with a baseball bat,or gave her too much GHB when they were raping and filming her,or specific details that would come back to haunt him if him and Patrick no longer were friends in the future.

They really should have waited another 2 months or so and let him talk more about it :( All I saw so far was just that one recording in the car. Just imagine what he would have told this guy if he was drunk and talking about it a 3rd and 4th time.

it's his father he's protecting, it's obvious and he has to confess. Instinctually, he knows his father is using him to keep it together.

His father has more to lose.

For a guy who "would do anything to protect his son" he sure hasn't done much to prevent tomorrow when he goes to OJland.

Good Paulus. Real good.

IMO, Joren can't tell his new gangsta buddy he called his daddy to help him out.  That doesn't sound very tough at all.  And after Paulus arrived, he sent Joran home.

Joran doesn't know whose boat was used.

.

I know this is going to be way off, LOL, I'm trying to catch up!

Anyway, the last sentence of this quote, IMO, is revealing.

Is a denial = truth ??????????


 ::MonkeyCool::
fran

Yep and look at OJ now...

Something bad happened.  The retracted confession. The FBI knows, ALE knows, KLPD knows.  They couldn't find Natalee's body.

I think PVS was involved even before Natalee died.  I don't think Natalee was random, I tend to believe she was chosen.

I am falling asleep.  Just wanted to say before I go that
Joran is 20 times the butt hole that I had thought he was,
and I have always considered his as such.
He was despicable on that tape today and if I could have
gotten my hands around his neck I would have choked him
until his one big eye and his one little eye popped right
out of his big Frankenstein head.
Nite all.

Very nice post Buckshot!

Night monkeyfaces! See you tomorrow!

http://www.cnn.com:80/2008/CRIME/02/03/natalee.holloway.suspect/

Video: Suspect says Holloway's body dumped 'like an old rag'


(CNN) -- An investigative judge said Sunday that sufficient reason exists to reopen the inquiry against Joran van der Sloot, a suspect in the 2005 disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway from the island of Aruba.

The announcement came shortly after Dutch television aired a program in which Van der Sloot told a man he considered to be his friend that he was with the 18-year-old on a beach near her hotel when she died, and that he arranged for a friend to take her body to sea and dump it.

"He went out to sea and then he threw her out, like an old rag," he told Aruban businessman Patrick van der Eem on January 16.

(snipped)

excuse the typos - i was on a roll.

No doubt there are things in the archives and statements that tie this together. Its already ugly and it will expand before its over.

Okay, I don't venture into toxic waters so can someone please help me out here, who is MP16?  Is that Ramm or Reality?

Nite Magnolia and Cubbee

Yes, but Rome was not destroyed in a day, you begin in tiny increments and make the reader want more and by the end of it, you have uncovered it for it to self-destruct. 

At the risk of being ignored, I repeat....

LOL...nite Magnolia ;-)

I agree. He chose her while sitting next to her at the casino. She did not seize and/or die at the beach. It happened at the Sloot compound, in the main house.

don't forget that mip6 was working at the marriott when natalee disappeared.
dennisintn
[/quote]

That's true.  Mark Purcell, right?
[/quote]

yes ma'am, the profane by his very existence, mark purcell.
dennisintn

Okay, ---- Is anyone out there even REMOTELY trying to defend joran?????????????

I'm not certain, Tyler, but I believe MP is Reality.

That's true.  Mark Purcell, right?
[/quote]

yes ma'am, the profane by his very existence, mark purcell.
dennisintn
[/quote]

So can someone tell me about this person Mark Purcell (MP16, right?)?  I want to know who he is, what he does and how he figures into this.  What does he do for Marriott?  There are ways I can find out but if someone could enlighten me, it would help.

Anna you it that on the head. Since Paulus paid for the psychiatric treatment he would know better. Something like, the less you know the better off you will be.

Thanks for posting it Buckshot!....keep Rollin'

Thanks, Justinmama, so he is not the "Ramm" person who posted here, but he is the Reality that posted at BFN and is he also MP16?

Yup, Taco and Greta.

What is most troubling still to me is the real reason Natalee died,I am still quite sure it was violent and Natalee lost a lot of blood. If she OD'D they would have never gone to all this trouble. He even mentions when she died she still looked good,did he see her again later after her death? Theres only one person that fits this description to me that helped dispose of the body and had a boat.IMO

"Im prefer not to tell names,Because he has always had my back"
"Look,this friend is quite clever and he's a bit older,We have been friends since kids"
"I've never told anyone about this man.Its not easy"
"I'll never tell his name,I will take it to my grave"
"I'd give my life to help him"

The Birkenstock war protestors of Marian County and Seattle, who carry the signs, hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

Hi Monkeys,

I was wondering why the lobster/crab cages keep coming up? Joran said his accomplice dumped her body over the boat. I just don't see them doing the gruesome act of chopping up the body of a dead girl and putting her into a trap/cage, then dumping her. I completely agree with the poster here who said daury is daddy. It makes perfect sense. No wonder Paulus was sweating so profusely onto his kitchen table when Beth and her friends were talking to him the next day. Can you imagine? Here sits the mother of the girl you just dumped into the sea! Beth said it best "Sons of Bitches".

Does Beth still like Greta? I can't believe after all the time Greta spent w/Beth she would say that she believes Joran. I can't stand Greta!!!

"i have people on the island"  does sound a lot more "grownup" and important than "i called daddy".
dennisintn

Yep...a few die hards still ranting about him being set-up by PVD and Beth, over on RU...it's ugly :-(

yes ma'am, the profane by his very existence, mark purcell.
dennisintn
[/quote]

So can someone tell me about this person Mark Purcell (MP16, right?)?  I want to know who he is, what he does and how he figures into this.  What does he do for Marriott?  There are ways I can find out but if someone could enlighten me, it would help.
[/quote]
Yes Mark is m1p6..He was a member of the IFA,AHATA,Director of operations for the Marriott and Friends of the sloots. Wife also works for AHATA. Ramm,Mark and Reality are 3 different people.
------------------------
Mark Purcell

Mark Purcell joined Interstate in 1988 as an accounting manager and gained additional financial experience in a number of related positions, culminating in director of business development.  In his new position as vice president, business development and feasibility, he will be responsible for sourcing and pursuing hotel management and acquisition opportunities.  “Mark has a proven record of success with our development and acquisitions group,” Jorns explained.  “His experience and contacts will be invaluable as we continue to expand our acquisition activities.”

He holds a bachelor’s degree from St. Bonaventure University. 

Oh brother! ::MonkeyRoll:: What is wrong with those people?

Koen, Croes, and Lorenzo would be good candidates for interviewing.

Lorenzo - we just do not know much about him, other than his alleged half-blood connection to the VanderSloots. Suspicion of his involvement is only based off of his blood relationship, ownership of a boat, and criminally alleged behavior.

The gardener story, if true, would logically have to be a waiting period for Joran and company. Satish may not have been present. Deepak may have been coerced by making him feel the guilt of his poison being inside of Natalee's body and causing her death. Joran may have explained, additionally, that since his drugs had killed her that he was obligated to help dispose of her body.

How good of friends were Joran and Croes? Would Joran have needed a liason to access Croes and his resources. Liason equalling Deepak, who may have been closer friends with Croes. Gardener story could include Joran, Deepak, and Croes, waiting in Deepak's car. Satish, at home, could be helping to establish an alibi for Deepak. Natalee's deceased body would have been hidden away on the beach. Paulus would be on the way at this point. Croes had easy access to a boat and was alleged to have broken into the fisherman's huts that evening.

Koen (and Sander) would be another good choice. Parents alleged to have been out of town. Children and parents were supposedly good friends. They could have been manipulated into lending their boat. It got a very nice cleaning in the weeks thereafter. Koen seemed pretty upset about things (sleeping with parents), Mr. Gottenbos did most of the talking for his son. Sander lost his phone (if this is relevant at all).

So can someone tell me about this person Mark Purcell (MP16, right?)?  I want to know who he is, what he does and how he figures into this.  What does he do for Marriott?  There are ways I can find out but if someone could enlighten me, it would help.
[/quote]
Yes Mark is m1p6..He was a member of the IFA,AHATA,Director of operations for the Marriott and Friends of the sloots. Wife also works for AHATA. Ramm,Mark and Reality are 3 different people.
------------------------
Mark Purcell

Mark Purcell joined Interstate in 1988 as an accounting manager and gained additional financial experience in a number of related positions, culminating in director of business development.  In his new position as vice president, business development and feasibility, he will be responsible for sourcing and pursuing hotel management and acquisition opportunities.  “Mark has a proven record of success with our development and acquisitions group,” Jorns explained.  “His experience and contacts will be invaluable as we continue to expand our acquisition activities.”

He holds a bachelor’s degree from St. Bonaventure University. 
[/quote]

Thanks a bunch!  So he is not "Reality?" Right?

yes ma'am, the profane by his very existence, mark purcell.
dennisintn
[/quote]

So can someone tell me about this person Mark Purcell (MP16, right?)?  I want to know who he is, what he does and how he figures into this.  What does he do for Marriott?  There are ways I can find out but if someone could enlighten me, it would help.
[/quote]

purcell (mip6) is now working at another big hotel on the island now.  his wife is manager of Moomba's, i think, and his son is supposedly a bartender there.  that's from the tired old mind of a man who's been sitting in this chair since 6 a.m. sunday morning, so i might have moomba's wrong.  the wife is also a biggie in the ahata or ata organization.
dennisintn

Night Monkeys! 

Maybe because they know a crab trap and knife were stollen and they know Natalee was taken out to sea.  What makes me sick is that I really believe ALE, KLPD, FBI all of them know.  FBI's hands are tied.

Forgot to say WELCOME!

PAULUS is the one

it is clear as DAY

PAULUS is DAURY

paulus was the WOLF at the table



on another note - joran keeps losing more money in his gambling habits


PAULUS IS A KILLER


PAULUS - there is a very good possibility Natalee was ALIVE when you tossed her out like GARBAGE

PAULUS is garbage

Amen Princess! I agree with you completely! I am boycotting Greta too.

ARUBA is in a GIANT LOAD of trouble and the netherlands are right behind them

do something right and get on track is the only thing that will save them
and even then it will be rough but the alternative is even worse
you made youre BED- and PAULUS the KILLER might be sleeping next to you


go get him

There is also not a pay phone over that area...The nearest pay phone is behind Mc Donald. Setar calling center...

For those who saw the program this evening,

Did it live up to its hype? Shocking? Case solving material?

OR

Was it shocking to see Joran, off guard, not portraying good sporter on camera, but portraying himself, chillingly describing and confirming highly suspected information, while eliminating other red-herring coincidences, and raising further questions?

So can someone tell me about this person Mark Purcell (MP16, right?)?  I want to know who he is, what he does and how he figures into this.  What does he do for Marriott?  There are ways I can find out but if someone could enlighten me, it would help.
[/quote]

purcell (mip6) is now working at another big hotel on the island now.  his wife is manager of Moomba's, i think, and his son is supposedly a bartender there.  that's from the tired old mind of a man who's been sitting in this chair since 6 a.m. sunday morning, so i might have moomba's wrong.  the wife is also a biggie in the ahata or ata organization.
dennisintn
[/quote]

Hmm, he might just be the guy we are looking for.  Does anyone know if he owns a boat? Or if the Marriott had one for rescue operations, etc?

If Paulus paid some member of organized crime to take care of this "little problem his son had", most likely Paulus and Joran are toast.  They now know Joran can't keep his mouth shut.  It's possible that Koen or Steve Croes or someone were involved, but the alleged ATM withdrawals by Paulus, his trips to the bank the next day, the death of the women he spoke with at the bank, and Joran insisting that he will never give this guy up.  I'm thinking that Koen may have gotten a phone call, may know something, but some criminal types ended up "taking care of it." 

I'm tired.  Busy day.  Night Monkeys. 

Hi Klaasend!!!
Thank you for your welcome!! I love this site! I have been lurking for so long, but with this new developement, I just had to come talk with you guys. You know, I had forgotten that a crab trap and knife were stolen. There is so much info from way back it's hard to remember it all. I still tend to think they just dumped her into the sea. If you are right that the FBI has known this...... it's just sad.

Where Paulus originally stated he "picked them up at 4 a.m."  This area is involved. Maybe Joran waited for the bifront at the water while Paulus went to the bank by McDonald's to get the money and Joran met him there.  The money was probably paid out when Paulus took the "white truck" to meet the bifrons where the hotel lady and others observed a blond being loaded onto a white truck.  I wonder if that MP16 guy was near enough that he could have been the one.  How close is Marriott to McDonald's?

Does everyone

(1) believe the story as mostly correct, minus a few details?

OR

(2) still feel conspiracy that Joran purposefully staged this so as to shield others from guilt, all part of a master plan?

if joran was sent on his way home

then he was told what happened by paulus or daury

ahhhhhhhhh.... would someone please go arrest paulus

he will CRACK easy

Joran's old girlfriend, Melody, who said she saw him that night until she got caught up in her own web and decided it was Saturday night lives in that area.  Perhaps her family owns a boat.  They seem to like Joran and defended him to the nth degree.  We cannot rule out the MP16 guy or Melody's family member.

Devries has more on tape

there will be more coming

aint that the way all these things work - more info coming


the evidence is overwhelming - this will cause a MELTDOWN in aruba

meltdown baby

Nite Kippy ;-)

Yes he is the weakest Link in this case..

Something inbetween.  I think it was mostly correct as far as him being the last person with Natalee and she slipped into a coma and/or died in his presence.  I believe all three JK2 raped Natalee, K2 left Joran at the beach with her and he called someone to help.

Edited to add:  When I say all three raped her I mean participated in some way.

Yes, Paulus sent Joran on his way home and took charge.  While walking home, Joran phones the Kalpoes to come give him a lift home as Joran doesn't walk.  When they found him along the route, that is where Joran threw away his shoes before getting into the car.

Get the 'Poes to tell where they picked Joran up while he was walking home and where he put the shoes.  They might still be there by some remote chance.

Joran doesn't know who Paulus contacted with a boat.  He is talking out of Goodfellas with his imaginary friend.  He has no such friend.

.

I am assuming since many of you know all about this MP16 guy, he has been ruled out and is a "good guy," NO?  YES? 

What is the MP16 indicative of?  Is that a name he uses to sound like he is some kind of undercover guy?  Does he have any fondness or desire to be like Eric Williams, the former US official, whose integrity we have yet to verify. Did the MP16 guy send Eric Williams to assuage the coach and pilfer him for information?  Is that possible?  Hey, look, I don't tread into the toxic waters of BFN and those people over there or at RU so I depend on all of you to help me.  The only reason I know anything about Hannie is because she once spread her propaganda on this forum, same goes for the prolific Julia.

G'nite Lilpuma

S.S. VANDER TITANIC


the judge doesnt want to do anything ?? 
good - dont do anything

let the people in aruba take care of it, i can live with that

cause thats what will happen

the sloots will be forced to move

the kids of the sloots will be tormented for the rest of their lives


MOMMA SLOOT could do everyone a favor and turn her son and husband in and save her two other kids NOW

joran will be back in the news within 2 months and he will kill again

i can tell you one thing, if that JERK OFF joran thinks he will ever come to the USA
for school- he better throw the CRACK PIPE away right now cause i dont ever see it
happening   EVER
 

It is a conspiracy, to protect the DUTCH COURT SYSTEM... He us Just a scapegoat in all this.

Remember, He took Kalooes out of the picture this time and insert someone new but only one person. THE dutch Law "ONE WITNESS IS NO WITNESS.

 
[/quote]

Thanks a bunch!  So he is not "Reality?" Right?
[/quote]
YW :) No, I don't think they are the same people. I noticed a few months ago while researching a dutch board,Mark's son was selling this t-shirt just 5 weeks after Natalee dissapeared..Sick huh?
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/723833/3/50
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/7677/sickxl8.gif) (http://imageshack.us)

hi anna i was looking for you earlier

 ::MonkeyCool::

Hello, Everyone.

Robots, you are right; this evidence is overwhelming.  They actually have him confessing on tape.  We are about to see how really corrupt those judges in Aruba really are if he isn't convicted of this crime.  What more could they possibly want, other than to have had the judges actually witness him committing this murder.  Even that might not sway them.  I say "murder" because, based on his confession, murder is a real possibility (although, if he drugged her drink, it ought to be murder down there, too) as they didn't even know for sure that she was dead when they disposed of her; this is even more heinous than we could have imagined.

Sunday, February 03, 2008
The Child Abuse of Joran van der sloot
Greta and Joe Tacopina had the Patriots giving the points.

"He's a kid, a scared kid." From Joe Tacopina, the supposed lawyer without standing to practice law in Aruba and no pending court cases in the U.S. for the van der sloots. And he ain't growing up being represented by Joe Tacopina and his own father Paulus van der sloot.

If so, and Paulus van der sloot would "do anything to protect my son."

Where is he now?

To say Joran is being protected is ludicrous considering he will overnight become the very picture of a savage, a misogynistic rapist and murderer.

And where is his father?

The adults in this crime are using Joran van der sloot to keep it together. He has been confessing for years, but the adults are watching a public execution of Joran van der sloot is underway, a self induced death penalty, and the father is cowering in the corner?

Nice Paulus, real nice. "he just a kid" and what do you do to protect him? Send him to your Mom in Holland and run from himself, you, Natalee?

Your son is in O.J. Land and you're in hiding?

The shame alone of listening to his vile savagery makes you do what? It's you he's protecting, you're at the end of your life, yet you would sacrifice this rapist "kid" as long as you can live out your golden years?

This whole story arc makes it clear that the idea of Prosecution in Aruba doesn't exist. From the beginning, it was defense mode.

How can all the players in this story be so silent except for Joran? They took the advice a lawyer gives to the guilty, just shut up.

Cowardly. Ironic too, that it reminds me of Ben Franklin. "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

I see a couple of nooses with your names on it Greta and Joe and Paulus and Nelson and Rudy and Koen and Jan and Karin and Gerold and Dennis and Ben and Steve and on and on and on...

The unwitting van der sloot enablers, legion of adults who can't let go, contribute to this farce of a "mystery."

We're pushing Joran towards Aruba while you're trying to push him away. We're pushing him and going to drop him on your doorstep.

From Joran: He said he panicked and tried but failed to revive her. He said that "Holloway looked dead but that he could not be sure she was not still alive when the friend took her away."

Paulus van der sloot was arrested before for premeditated murder. But at least your son considers you "a friend."

The cover-up just got un-covered-up, worldwide in primetime.

Prime Minister Oduber: Say cheeeeeeeese!

posted by Deetch at 9:34 PM

If Satish is innocent, that would certainly leave room for a crown witness - DK.

I think that, at some point, this investigation, as with many other things in their lives, became a game. They are having a good time, unfortunately at the expense of Natalee's family, Aruban people, and Aruban law enforcement. They are narrow-mindedly focused only on living out the lie and not getting caught - beating the system.

Imagine the street credibility gained, at their age, with having duped the investigators and not getting caught. They, up to this point, have managed to make a deceased tourist's body disappear without a trace, while not getting pinched and held responsible for covering up a date-rape gone bad.

yep

taco and greta will defend him for a bit longer

and one of them will actually throw in the towel

i think it will be Joe T. to throw in the towel the soonest

even he knows a dead horse when you get this close to it

this thing stinks to high heaven and it is UNDEFENDABLE unless you are GRETA FRANKENSTEIN

They got this guy dead to rights, huh?  Nothing he or his lawyers can say now to defend him or his actions.  Shouldn't this guy be arrested already?  What are they waiting for?

I have seen so many otherwise brilliant monkeys demand our government go in like storm troopers and demand justice from Aruba.  Darn, we are a constitutional republic.  Short of them having attacked us or having attacked a neighbor who has America's interests, we cannot do that.  We can subtly nudge and offer assistance, but our hands are tied.  Can you imagine if we went in like we did in Granada or Afghanistan, started dropping bombs and started shooting people what be our outcome? 

We are a government who wants its citizens to see what the facts are and make their own decisions.  That is called freedom of speech.  As I see it we are expressing that here, as well as our freedom of the press, something not all can do.  We are making our decision to stay away from Aruba, and offering evidence to our fellowman as to why he/she should stay out of Aruba.  Beth has been given carte blanch to do that under our laws.  She has been given freedom of travel to and from Arbua and Holland by our government.  If they were not on her side, that would be stopped.  They are letting Beth tell Natalee's story, which will win friends and influence enemies or sink Aruba by withdrawing the all mighty American dollar.  When Americans who have built Aruba and have invested there see that it is sinking due to this incident, our government made up of it caring citizens, will do the bombing --- they will stop traveling there, quit investing there, the cruise lines will no longer go there.  This is somewhat of an embargo imposed upon Aruba by America's spokespersons, you and me.

nite all keep the faith!

Well, JVDS makes OJ Simpson look like a boy scout.

I totally agree with you on this one Bubba!  Papa Sloth has got to be crappin' in his unzipped pants right about now...while Urin is doin' another line of blow...tossing it back with another shot of booze...Pappa can only be wondering about tomorrow and how his EVIL SPAWN will be viewed by the rest of the world...yep Papa is watching Urin's fav soap opera :
As the World Burns....bwwwwwhahahhahaaaaaa

The problem is to make the murder charge stick, you need the body...In lower court, he will go for sexual abuse or rape, but he needs a withness to say that he did it... On TV, he is going to say, Pater pay me to say this for ratings...

also he left it open so that the last person that was with this girl, is this new person.

I appreciate your comments - they are thought provoking. Hell, your version of the truth is as good as anyone else's.

It just seems a little to Shango-ish as I think things are pointing towards a much more simplistic version, involving fewer players than expected.

Klaasend have not seen Lala online today

Is it their law that they need the body??  I guess I really don't understand their system.

 ::MonkeyLaugh::

joran has an anger problem, a drug problem, a drinking problem and a gambling problem

and those are THE LEAST OF HIS PROBLEMS

The problem is to make the murder charge stick, you need the body...In lower court, he will go for sexual abuse or rape, but he needs a withness to say that he did it... On TV, he is going to say, Pater pay me to say this for ratings...

also he left it open so that the last person that was with this girl, is this new person.

Exactly right.  This is using the law to protect the perpetrator, not unlike the laws in our own country, the USA.  Our SCOTUS has rendered our lower courts incapable of justice in far too many cases.  It's not just in Holland or Aruba; we have the same problem.  Laws are not made in order to obtain justice for the victim but loopholes for the criminal.

dont feel bad
none of us do !!


thanks Frank you nailed it

That's cute, Robots--and so true.

G'night, Monkeys.  Hope to be able to read back tomorrow.  It's going to be a busy week at our house.  Keep it going, keep it moving, check into that MP16 guy and Melody's father, see what you can find.  It's right there in the open, right near where Joran was, and I suspect it lies somewhere between the Marriott and slootland.

Hands Princess a fresh depends...as she stumbles off to bed...Nite Sweetie ;-)

::MonkeyWink::

good night to everyone and thank you to eveyone

i need to get up in 4.5 hours

but i will be back
TO WATCH THEM ARREST PAULUS  ::MonkeyCool::

I think she was earlier but maybe she attended a SuperBowl party or something?  I really don't know.

Nite Tylergal and Robots - I'm not far behind

yes ma'am, the profane by his very existence, mark purcell.
dennisintn
[/quote]

So can someone tell me about this person Mark Purcell (MP16, right?)?  I want to know who he is, what he does and how he figures into this.  What does he do for Marriott?  There are ways I can find out but if someone could enlighten me, it would help.
[/quote]


Aruba Facts - Aruba News Desk - Newsletter December 1-31, 20...
Aruba News - Latest on what's happening in Aruba. ... Marlene Purcell who lives here, her husband Mark is a Marriott executive, ran around for prizes and ...

www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/new... - 77k - Similar pages

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter55.html
[DOC]CAST Intern Report
I met Mr. Ewald Biemans, the owner of Bucuti Beach Resort in Aruba, ... Robert Cooman of Costa Linda, and Mark Purcell of Aruba Marriott Resort. ...

www.cha-cast.com/Documents/Final%20Intern%20Report.do... - Similar pages

http://www.cha-cast.com/Documents/Final%20Intern%20Report.doc
To discover and defend: from saving energy to saving sea tur...
And the Aruba Marriott Resort & Stellaris Casino has created a sanctuary for ... now have so many," says Mark Purcell, the hotel's director of facilities. ...

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NAH/is_6_34/ai_... - 29k - Similar pages


On AOL search I typed Mark Purcell in Aruba.  The last website posting above reflects that he is the Marriott's Director of Facilities.

I'll say good-night, too; both to everyone leaving and all of you staying for awhile longer.  Thanks for "listening" to me vent a bit.

When the crap starts, and it will, about details in Joran's story not possibly being true, and the defense team starts pointing to that as evidence that Joran was just making the whole thing up, there needs to be a resounding cry for him to be hooked to a polygragh operated by our FBI. If he's going to insist he's a liar, then that's a way for him to have an objective machine discern the truth.

I'm exhausted. Going to head for the pillow. It's been great to see everyone, and I know that tomorrow will be a big day as well. Please say a prayer tonight for the crew of the Persistence!

Night all!

Nite Tylergal...Robots...Kiwi...anyone else I forgot...I'm hitting the bed too...been on 'puter far too long ;-)

Klaas...You got CLASS!!!  Thank You for all your dedicated effort, You Love for what you do, and your Strength for putting up with all us Monkeys...

((((((((((((((((((Klass))))))))))))))))))))

I was re-reading Simian/Shango.  This is how it's been for almost three years.  Whoever Simian is knew this back then.   

Joran was alone (one witness); there is no evidence & there is no body (it's in the ocean ); Joran did it, and he can't testify against himself.

This is so sad.  He can talk about it all day long, but noone can do anything because the body was dumped in the ocean (and shoes?). (A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence).


Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
1. No body; no crime.
2. A grown woman gone missing.
3. Één getuige is géén getuige. (One witness is no witness).
4. No suspect is allowed to testify against himself.
5. A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence.

I have some good dirt comming over the wire about the Marriott deal...

Short Version, The Land belong to the Chamaly Family, The P.M. made the deal with the Brazilians group, and The Mariott to develop that area. The International Windsurf Organisation by which the son of the P.M. is part of the board, Want to keep the area as it is, The deal was a complete development but the Marriott made a sacrifice for a smaller Ritz but Aruba have to provided them with Complete tax break on the whole contruction & furnishing the place...and. Nelson wanted for Holland to change the law so that Marriott can do it, and so appease the Windsurfres Organisations.

There is someting stinky about this since Mariott will build the complete Hotel as original plan.
The AHATA and some DUTCH Investors are also interested in this area. There is a cover up in two cases, 1 the Natalee case and  2. The Marriott Deal between, Dutch & Aruba Government vs Brazilian and USA Investors...and tax incentives.

More in detail tommorrow. I will see if after what I have if it is in agreement with Shango.

Night everyone..

Just like Joran says, the Kalpoes don't know.  They were told.  He didn't call anyone named Daury.  He called someone named "Daddy."


Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.

Based on my knowledge they will be confronted. A set up for the behaviour specialists?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

hlwagner,

Very good points and the most sense I have ever seen out of Simian.

Add to that that ALE very oddly has asked all the parents and stepparents if Natalee had a history of seizures meaning they have already heard Joran's story before

Nothing was done then and it appears nothing will be done yet again.



Heading for the Monkey Bunkey.  Perhaps after seeing this coverage by ABC News, we will know a little bit more.  Bit by bit, it is coming to light more all the time.

Goodnight, All.

.

Joran Can, But the weakest Link now is the the Father.

Well when they find the body, they will find the shoes.

Shango also says that they never went to the ocean...

so Joran is lying...

natalee puked in kalpoes car. 151 and motion sickness will do that. also out came some date rape drug so she might not have been as druged as once thought. i think she was more aware than they bargined for. she saw faces ,"i dont know these people". the sezures were from trauma plus adrinalin from fighting for her life. i dont think it happened on the beach. thats just where they take them to wake up.

The practice to go to the beach to have Sex is also fabricated. In the 70's tll mid 80's it that was the practice...In Aruba they go to Apratments...they have these called quiky's apratment and there is where they have gone...It is this practice that the young generation is using...The beach is out, The Farro or Lighthouse is out, Doeing it in a Car is out,

For 50 bucks you go to one of these 3 type of apartments and when done just leave the key at the front and your are done.

There is where they must have gone...it is what those that prictice on forbidden fruits do.


 

Welcome 8 Ball! I agree with You....Natalee did not die at the beach... ::MonkeyWink::

Caps You are indeed a very smart wizard.....Thanks for helping Us out..... ::MonkeyWink:: ::MonkeyWink::

To my mind, Simian, Shango & some of the other posters on the front pages of SM during those June 2005 days are the conspirator's communicating with each other about what & how the future handling of the situation would take place.

Sociopath's are known to be able to pass polygraph tests, reference Green Mile Serial Killer.

JVDStoolscum's telling of his sexual prowess to ALE involved 2 blowjobs, no sex or lying down til he was in the comfort of his "garden apartment" (that's a garden?  not in my neck of the woods it isn't)

Don't forget these perverts have had 2.67% years to get these stories into the Sociopath's mind.  He IS NOT the brightest bulb, that is why the silence was so important.

The corruption is in full bloom & unless the occupants DO SOMETHING DRASTIC it is how it will always be. 

Americans & all tourists who go to that evil place take their chances, as the beauties stop their vacations even the dumpy, ugly tourists will be their prey as they must feed their hunger for entertainment & THEY WILL.

Goodnight All!

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm ***** NAT ****
Mary( Natalee )  never heard the buoy toll (She was never was on the Ocean)
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Tyler,
I don't know what my posts have anything to do with what you just wrote. I never said anything about our government going over there like storm troopers. Why are you quoteing me?

G'nite Hotping...

I'm going to bed too ;-)  Nite ALL!

Dest

Good job Buckshot!!!! I agree with what you wrote!!

Well, I am glad I got up.  I could not sleep, so happy I found this.  No, I am not quoting you, but agreeing with you that FBI hands are tied!

Ohhhh ok. Sorry I misunderstood. Yes so sad that the FBI's hands are tied. I'm still up reading this site. There are so many interesting threads here to read, I can't stop!

Good Morning......Is this why they waited to see about filing charges?  They wanted to see how much would be told before they started damage control....

I interpreted that quite differently: she was dead on the boat and therefore could not hear the buoy toll.

Klaas....I think we have a BINGO!

Stom posted on the Shango thread yesterday that Paulus' codename is Daury????

If we want to tie in Lorenzo, we need his real name..van Rijn/van Gijn/van Geijn.or maybe van Dijn. IMO the name was changed to confuse. I was following this up on the Shango thread last week....I found a judge with the van Gijn and that is what Jossy called him....and americaninaruba always said van Geijn.

Beans mentioned Vadir...this is the first person I thought of when I was catching up last night...also touched on in the Shango thread and reportedly a cousin of Joran, but more importantly it is who Beth believes had something to do with Nat's disappearance.

And we still have Koen and Sander...Sander it was rumored was to be arrested in the Netherlands in May 2006 with Guido. Never happened...Jossy said Guido was not the one with scratches.

I did too, Spock...but I am not very good at decoding Shange or Simian!

Hi all, I'm new here. I watched here last night during the show (I'm Dutch). I couldn't comment then because my account hadn't been approved yet.  ::MonkeyConfused::

My 2 cents on Joran's accomplice "Daury":

Joran has been giving conflicting statements about him:

1. At first to Patrick he says it's an older person.

2. Later on Daury is "25 or something".

3. To Patrick he says he's known Daury all his life, but last Friday in Paul & Witteman's talkshow on the phone, Joran is caught off guard and asked if he has since talked to his alledged accomplice who (alledgely) helped him get rid of the body, he says "no, it was a guy I met in Aruba, like 6 months ago". Mind you, he is talking here about the guy in his "made up" story, who isn't supposed to exist if you ask me.

If you want to find out which direction the truth lies, compare the old (O) to the new (N):


O: I left her sleeping on the beach
N:  I think she died on the beach
N: I hid the body in the bushes by the beach

O: She fell out of the car and hit her head
N: She was shaking violently
N: She was foaming at the mouth

Shaking vilently can be a result of head trauma
Drowning victims will often asperate foam, she may have been alive when put in the water

O: Satish drove me home and I went to sleep soon after
N: I called a friend who brought a boat, then I walked home
N: The friend was not my parents

Joran called his father, who drove Joran home to work on the alibi

O: I didnt have sex with her because I didnt have a condom
O: Everything we did was consentual
N: I was lucky they didnt find the body. My semen was inside her

If it was consentual, why were you worried they might find the body?

Welcome....I am hoping that they have not outsmarted Peter DeVries.

I am not sure what to make of Daury, I have always thought that Natalee was taken out to sea, so then they would need a boat.

If Joran's story from last night were true, I am at a total loss as to why so many close to him were in such a big hurry to leave the island. And then we have all the unexplained
'suicides'.

He did not say his semen was inside her. He said they can never touch him, "even if they'd find her and my semen was inside her". It was (bizarrely, twisted) hypothetical.

I think he fears them finding Poppy's semen in her if she is found.

Spock....then was the searching of the drugs, alcohol and lawyers the next night part of the alibi? TIA

Hi Tyler...no sleep here either....great post last night.

I think he said "Daury" to cover for the real accomplice. He was very reluctant to name him at first. He said he'd never name him. Later on he did, but I think changed the name. Daury just popped into his head, because he knew a Daury. Not thinking this would ever be exposed and the real Daury would hear it. Daury has said to the press after the show that he was in Holland during that night of the murder/disappearance. Apparently his school has confirmed this. Also Daury said he hadn't seen Joran in a long time, since his youth.

My guess is there was someone with a boat, but not Daury. Maybe his father or someone else. Joran said he had something "on" him, i.e. this person has a secret that Joran knew about. Could this be his father.

The pay phone that Joran used near the hotel could only be used with a credit card. I hope there are still records of this transactions and whom he called. Then they'd know for sure who's the accomplice.

I must have too much excitement in my life.  :)  I guess those of us who cannot sleep for worrying over this, are just experiencing a minute amount of the pain that Beth has had relentless and refractory.  I hope that in some small way our support has been of some benefit to her, knowing that she is loved for defending her daughter, as so many other mothers would do, some of whom are not as articulate or as poised as Beth, but many who would do whatever it took, as Beth has.

This has been probably said already but Daury = Daddy.

Here is the link to the Shango thread for those interested in what Beth wrote about Vadir van Loon and his boat. Scroll down to the pics of the yellow jeep. A poster later asked who the person in the white shirt may have been, but I haven't been able to enlarge it yet.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1560

Morning San... whose boat do you think they used?

It was a fact that Anita describe Natalee's underwerar right?  If so, where does this come in?

Did Joran share this with Anita?  Why?

Were the underwear found at the Sloots? Why would she share this with Beth?

Was Nat at the Sloots earlier in the evening? or the next day?

Were they left behind in the Sloots car after a transport?

Were they a trophy?

I also am sold on the plastic bag after seeing Blonde's ( I think that is who it was) negative.  My eyes can't be deceiving me on that one.

I think she was taken out to the sea permanantly but not that night.

One more thought...yesterday's airing may have shocked the world, but IMO it is not what Beth and Jug referred to as 'shock the world'...it was not that simple.

I have not seen the entire program and I have not read the entire last thread from yesterday.  I did see Beth's reaction and it was sad to see.

I know people will think I'm nuts but he has these lies planned in his head and he is sticking to it like glue.

Daury = Daddy
Water = Land
Threw Shoes in Drainage = Someone has them

He made sure he mentioned specific elements of this case from what I have read.  He gave answers to a lot of things we have been talking about.  I do not believe the answers he gave are the truth.

With that said the person with the boat is Steve Croes.  JMO.

Off to work will see you later.

I agree.  Natalee was at the Sloots.  We have heard time and time that she was moved.  If she was moved she was in the ground.  The ALE moved her.

Joran is lying.

Joran is taking everyone away from his home.

The Kalpoes are jumping for joy and they are probably in love with Joran again because the feel he freed them from being involved.

This was a plan.

The Kalpoes were there and they saw what happened.  Satish Kalpoes words seal the deal for me "How is the girl."

My thoughts in blue

San...I totally agree with you on everything except on not sure on Croes...just not sure on that, but he is a good possibility.

The housekeeper, that works 8-12n worked a later shift that Monday.  She was there when he got home from school.  Why did they tell her not to come in early?

Joran never mentions The Racket Club. He was an intern there (? with a key?). He was dropped off and seen by the Club.

JA...IIRC Anita described the underwear to Beth and Greta in the meeting that was not allowed to be filmed.

Buckeye...maybe she was there all day, cleaning up.

The ALE is mad at Joran not  because of what he did to Natalee or all his lying, but because they covered up the crime for him, Papa or whoever and Joran has brought it back into the public.  They are thinking that ungrateful little sh*t!

Hi Buckeye...I was working on this Friday when the news broke...The pimps met on 5/30....Koen, a David, Joran...and of course Freddy said he was there on the 31st????

Do you remember any more as I am still checking PVs and Joran's book. TIA

You asked why she shared with Beth about Natalee's underwear?  Because she is an uncouth, coarse, unsophisticated, gossipy fat fishwife who thought she was smearing it in Beth's face that Beth's daughter who was deceased at the hands of Anita's spawn, was gone and she was not even going to give Beth the panties but would one-up her with describing them indicating a "nananaa booboo," like a junior high student.  Anita is an controlling old windbag or either Paulus and/or Joran is a panty sniffer.

I believe she was told to come later because there was another housekeeper there cleaning up (She saw sand all over Joran's pants.  Sand = Blood).  Or the mess was so bad they needed two house cleaners to clean it up.

That condescending windbag mentioned this to Beth just to be demeaning.  Maybe she is not just a fishwife, maybe she is just the devil in a see-thru blouse.

  With all due respect to the other posters that queried and brought forth their own theories and speculations which is what most people do in mystery cases both imaginative and in real time cases .  BUT  you need to remember one thing about the boy who is relaying this information .
  #1 He is a sick individual
 #2 He has a need to be in the spotlight no matter it is in the positive or the negative : remember to a Sociopath "negative attention is better then NO attention at all "
  #3 He believes that he IS smarter then all of the Police ,The court officials and the public in general because he still has all the information and we do not  only speculation .
  #4  He will always keep just enough information so that when he feels the warmth of the spotlight fading from him and starting to cool he may once again bring this backlogged information to the surface to so as to allow him self to once again be recharged with all of this negative attention that he relishes .
 #4  If you really think PaPa VDS also has many many of these qualities in his personality make up just look at how he became when he WAS NOT selected as a judge  and was told that he had FAILED his Judge in training exams  this HAD to be a shock to his ego .
  These are just my opinions  and to be honest the only way that I ever see Joran and his father and possibly the two Kalpos getting any consequences out of Natalees Murder and Rape  and that IS what it was , would have to come from outside the law in which in time I still believe it will .
  then they will still have to be judged by God .
    Jerry from Ohio

I heard this morning that Taco is going to say Joran was high on marijuana that this guy, Patrick, gave him in order to seduce him in to talking and all that conversation is debunked by that very act and Taco will try to sue all parties involved on behalf of the vanderSloot family for damages to theirs and Joran's reputations.

Joran made a nice little tidy package in his mind thinking he has cleared anyone of wrong doing and partially taking the blame.  He cleared the Kalopes, He cleared the ALE, He cleared Freddy, He cleared Koen, He cleared Sander and most of all He cleared the true murdered Daddy.

He wasn't really sure she was dead.  So that means in his evil mind he did not kill her.  He is a liar because he beat her to death.  End of story...JMO.

If Peter DeVries was really interested in justice for Natalee, rather than his own fame and fortune, he would have made sure that any information he brought to Mos would have SEALED THE DEAL legally before he showed his hand with Joran.  It's infuriating to me that this new tape is "just not enough" to redetain anyone.  DeVries should have kept on until it was.

Annie, I am not a cop, don't even play a lawyer on TV, but I think DeVries has tried harder than anyone else to get what he could.  He was not a part of the investigative team on Aruba.  All the evidence there was is gone now.  He spent months and thousands of dollars on Aruba trying to investigate.  He has many, many more hours of tape that have not been revealed.

I am not sure that Beth and Dave want justice at this point; they want answers.  I don't think they are interested in justice as they know that will never come out of Aruba.  They just wanted answers and Peter did the best he could to get answers.

To debate that is like how many angels dancing on the head of a pin.

Anything that comes forward and is presented to Aruba would be brushed off.  There is a plan in place and that plan is not to convict Paulus and Joran.  But I do agree with what Jerry from Ohio said and that is an outside law enforcement will solve this case.  Let's put it this way they already have.  The FBI knows the truth.

Have a good day everyone I'm off to work and a half our late.  ::MonkeyShocked::

Meet the Man Who Got Van Der Sloot to Talk About Holloway's Disappearance
Patrick van der Eef Gives the Inside Story to ABC News
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/story?id=4236425&page=1
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1048/apeemsloot080204msgc7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

But what about the Discovery documents he would have to provide?...we've seen Joran's list of character witnesses from the NY lawsuit. LOL

I hope to heck Joran is really hiding out and scared you know what!

Annie-

I think San is correct, it doesn't matter if they have video of Joran raping and murdering Natalee, Aruba will never lift a finger to prosecute. I lost all hope of that once I researched how many despicable criminals run free in Holland. Holland is noted for this, their "system" is so positioned toward the criminal's rights and not the victim's that convictions are rare. It's why Aruba has been so cavalier and even laughed in the faces of these parents, they know Holland will back them up.

The onus is now on our government to step up and do something. Whether they will nor not, it does now rest on their shoulders.

Look at this quote on MSN, this is what angers me so much to hear that POS Urine state "much ado about nothing". I don't think we need any further proof he is a sociopath than that one quote. I am so angry it makes me feel ill, another Ted Bundy in action and the world just accepts it?

"It is so stupid, it is so stupid, it is really stupid," Van der Sloot said, his voice cracking.

Van der Sloot said an investigation in Aruba could easily prove he lied in the conversation with the friend, a recording of which is expected to form part of Sunday's show.

"It's easy to prove that what I said is not true, and that actually this is much ado about nothing," he said.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22979554/page/2/

Great post....Buddy....

you know what? BECAUSE Holland is rampant with dope smokers this will fly with some of them, hey even Dilbart would agree. As I recall he has a penchant for dope himself.

Folks don't get to vested in believing the ridiculous will not happen or be said here, the very fact that Taco would even attach his own name to such a ludicrous excuse is evidence how high and how big the pay-off's are here.

I think BOR needs to have Taco on and ask him point-blank what his earnings to date have been from defending the delicious sporter.

Morning None...maybe he could ask him who is paying.....

I think de Vries' intentions were foremost to unveil the truth about Joran and what happened, not so much to make a legal case. For the family this is closure at least about Natalee's fate and Joran's involvement, whether Joran will be convicted is a different matter. I think this was de Vries' intentions, aside from personal interests such as fame and glory. Also the informer Patrick v/d Eem said in an interview that their primary goal was to expose the truth about Joran, not to gather legal evidence.

 ::MonkeyEek::

It was over a period of time...not just one time in the car.

de Vries was approached by Patrick who already met Joran and was building a friendship with him. It was Patrick's idea to film Joran and he kept it going as long as he could. Patrick was asked why he stopped the sting operation. Patrick said he was emotionally exhausted and didn't care if the sting convicted Joran. He just wanted to expose Joran to the world.

Paulus AKA Daury


where are you hiding today ?

In the programme you see Joran talking in the car on several days. At least 5, but I believe de Vries said they had recorded confessions on 10 different days. He confessing each time. Retelling the story, giving more details. It's real damning.

that is correct

hours and hours and hours of taping  ::MonkeyCool::

::MonkeyEek::
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2187/joransteinsk1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

ANITA is in SHOCK

Joran confessed to killing Natalee, not illegally disposing of a corpse. He plainly states that he did not know if she was dead, only that she was not moving. Presumption of life absent declaration dead. Of course, if we had a body, Jorean might could clear himself by showing she was dead before he drowned her, but no body, must be murder:)

Sure it would have been nice if Joran had told the whole truth and the boat partner's name was real.  However I'm not going to say anything negative about PDV.  How many people have been willing to help to this level?  We had Dr Phil with a feeble attempt and no followup.  We had Joe Mamama or whatever his name is.  There's Greta's BS panel of "experts" who can't even remember the players names.

There are several MVPs in this game in my book:
The family for their never ending support of their daughter
Jossy Mansur for never stopping the fight
The crew of the Persistence searching to bring our Natalee home
PDV for showing the world the REAL Joran Van der Sloot

Watch the tape, listen to the words.  Joran will NEVER live a normal life after this regardless of what happens.  Then watch it and imagine you are in charge of tourism for Aruba.  PR nightmare.  Same thing - it won't go away.  Aruba needs for Natalee's body to be recovered just as much as the family does.  Otherwise that black cloud will remain forever over the shores of Aruba.

Joran threw alot of people under the bus with his words.  Perhaps the house of cards will fall.  I'm not going to 2nd guess the timing of the release of the videos because I don't have the knowledge to be a critique.  I am just grateful that the slimeball is being exposed for what he is.  Don't underestimate the backlash from what is going to be shown tonite.

Praying for justice.
Beans

Yes,I realize that but they still should have waited longer until they had more of the truth. That tape that we saw in the car was just two days after the Wine throwing incident. It was a valiant effort by Patrick and De Vries and like his first time around he did a hell of a job. Much better than anyone else.

Daury = Paulus, no doubt about it.

Devries has put Joran in a position where he will have to PROVE HIS OWN INNOCENSE (at LEAST in the court of public opinion).  Which is impossible because he is guilty.

I believe Joran will attempt to clean up his image by doing talk shows and interviews.  This will only result in destroying his own image further (if thats possible)

Aruba will still not convict him or do a damn thing about it.

Some redneck needs to put a double tap right between his beady eyes.

agree 100 percent  ::MonkeyCool::

He did not confess to killing her. He confessed to carrying her to a boat. He thought she was dead. But he did not drop her body overboard. Joran says his friend went out to the sea and dumped her body. So if Natalee was not dead, his friend drowned her, not Joran.

Joran's image is beyond repair. The tapes show him as a sick, calculating individual. If he tries to clean it up by saying he lied and tried to impress his friend, it's not believable and only more twisted if someone would do that. Joran cannot fix this.

van Rijn ...I have the site for his Father's death record, but I can't find it now.

http://www.members.lycos.nl/bidprentjes/2001/2001r.htm

there it is.....down at the bottom

Well he never states why she looked dead and wasn't moving. Only leading to speculation that it was him that most likely killed her. People just don't die from one shot of alcohol and a beer,and aren't normally being seen dragged out of a bar on vacation by two strange men because she could barely walk. Only to never be seen again. Not only that but he named the wrong person as disposing of her body,that person he says he will never name and will go to his grave without ever telling. He described him to us but named Daury who probably has a alibi in another country.

I agree Private Eye, that unless someone in an official capacity pronounced her dead, I believe he is in essence, admitting to murder.  Just saw Beth on ABC.  She looked so much better than I have seen her in a long time and she seemed happier and to have had a burden lifted.  I am happy with her getting information because I think just like me, she knows she will never justice, even an eye for an eye is not justice, because Joran's whole body is not worth even Natalee' finger.

Can someone tell me if anyone has figured out the 'pay phone' issue that JR was so adamant about at one point last night?

I have wondered off and on whether, besides his regular cell phone, Jordan sometimes carries a prepaid cell phone.  This kid was involved with so much chit, and knew how not to get caught--he is an excellent student of skirting the law and knows what not to do to get caught.  Could that not be the pay phone he speaks about?

I also wonder if the man he called could have been his Godfather?

I am just throwing things out there to see if they will help anyone.  I try to support many monkey theories.

If Taco does not resign today then he does not have a single ounce of decency in his body.

How ANYONE could go on defending this punk after the things he has said is just unimaginable.

I dont really expect Taco to do the right thing, man-up and resign because I know deep down inside, Taco is nothing but a piece of shit.

Taco, you are worse than Joran himself because you know the truth and you continue to speak for this devil.

You have no class, you are not a man, you should be ashamed of youself.  Do you kiss your own mother with the same lips you spew your vile gut wrenching vomit out of in an attempt to defend the most hideous despicable animal this world has seen since the terrorists that flew planes into the WTC?

You will get yours one day, you will go down with that scumbag you represent and you will die alone in misery you disgusting pig.

 ::MonkeyDance:: ::MonkeyDance::

Morning Nut...but are you sure that this was Lorenzo's father. I think I have seen what you are referring to.

When he was first arrested last year, Jossy paper said Gijn.

somebody is going to be dead very soon

who it is ??

i have no idea

but someone involved in this is going to end up dead very soon

They changed his name to Van Gijn to confuse when he was arrested in the MJ bust. But his name has always been Van Rijn,they are a very wealthy family from Holland and still to this day his relatives have run a well known business over the last 100 years in Holland.

His father died like on 12-20-2001 by hanging. Aruban's say he was distraught that Astrid was having a affair,others say drug and alcohol depression. Some have speculated he owed money which I don't believe.

Joe T. has already spewed his garbage on ABC Good Morning America this morning and he said the phone has already been checked and no call was made from THAT phone. :roll: 

Did anyone hear that Taco left this message on Joran's cell phone?



Shut up!!!

You talk too much...
You talk too much...
You talk too much...
You talk too much...

Hey! You over there, I know about your kind
You're like the Independent Network News on Channel 9
Everywhere that you go, no matter where you at
I said you talk about this, and you talk about that
When the cat took your tongue, I say you took it right back
Your mouth is so big, one bite would kill a Big Mac

You talk too much You never shut up
I said you talk too much Homeboy you never shut up

You talk about people, you don't even know
And you talk about places, you NEVER go
You talk about the girl, from head to toe
I said your mouth's moving fast, and your brain's moving slow

You talk too much You never shut up!!
I said you talk too much Homeboy you never shut up

You're the instigator, the orator of the town
You're the worst when you converse, just a big mouth clown
You talk when you're awake, I heard you talk when you sleep
Has anyone ever told you, that talk is cheap

You talk too much You never shut, up!!
I said you talk too much Homeboy you never SHUT UP!!!

Talking is the one thing, that you can do best
You told the cavity creeps, to watch out for Crest
You never have the story, right and exact
And then you always try to bore me, with your yakkity yak

You talk too much And then you never shut up
I said you talk too much Homeboy you never SHUT UP!!!

Everyday you are out fighting someone in the street
And you're always fighting someone you know ya can't beat
Then you wonder how, you got in this mess
Just think of what you said, then take a guess

You talk too much You never shut up!
I said you talk too much Homeboy you never SHUT UP!!!

You're always spreading rumors, whether bad or good
You're the damn Walter Cronkite of the neighborhood
The Barbara Walters, and the Howard Cosell
You always come around, with a story to tell

You talk too much And then you never shut up
I said you talk too much Homeboy you never SHUT UP!!!

Said it's everybody's business that you love to mind
And talkin to you, is like dropping a dime
You're spreading the word, like it is your job
You should be a stool pigeon, who works for the mob

You talk too much And you never shut up
I said you talk too much Homeboy you never shut up!

A big blabbermouth, that's what you are
If you were a talk show host, you'd be a star
I said your mouth is big, size extra large
And when you open it, it's like my garage

You talk too much And then you never shut up
I said you talk too much Homeboy you never shut up

You always like to gossip, just like a girl
You talk so damn much, it's outta this world
When you're reincarnated, in your second life
You won't be a man, you'll be a nagging wife

You talk too much Then you never shut up
He said you talk too much Homeboy you never SHUT UP!!!

SHUT UP!!!
SHUT UP!!

Taco won't resign and he doesn't want to because he loves slime.

But even if he wanted to resign he can't - because he is a MOB attorney.  He is a MOB guy.  He is paid by the MOB.  He is OWNED.  Perhaps the mob will get sick of this crap and make Joran and Paulus disappear like the evidence did.

i think taco will bail out soon

not today, but soon enough

Drat - off to work.  Have a good day Monks.

One thing that Joran was adamant about was a ocean disposal. Combined with the other evidence that means the Persistence is on the right track.

The more he talks the tighter the noose around his neck becomes!!  Let him keep on talking since they can't seem to get him to do it in jail.  Since daddy is concerned for his safety jail may end up being the safest place for him with that mouth he can't seem to shut!

Thanks *******...I know you do a lot of research...do you think it was him in the 'legs' photo?  TIA

Legs photo? What photo is that?

people that dump or people that KNOW someone is going to dump an unconscious person in the ocean not knowing if she was still alive are  capable of doing just about anything......

this is probably one of the scariest things to come about.

this is JORAN

this is the man that people defend

this is the people that JOE T. defend

this is who Greta defends

this is not human


the only reason why anyone would even consider such a thing is because the person
that is unresponsive could POTENTIALLY IDENTIFY you for doing something that is
unimaginable


ENTER - PAULUS   aka   Daury

when paulus knew that he could be identified as a rapist

natalee never had a chance

when someone is unresponsive you have 2 options

option 1

call for help

option 2

drown them


paulus and joran chose option 2

it doesnt get anymore evil than this

I agree with you on that, for sure, Robots.  That is what must have just ripped Beth's heart out, that this Frankenstein monster a/k/a Joran, had been raised by a pair of indolent parents who never instilled any morality or values in him, who could do such a thing.  That's not rough around the edges, that's just plain subhuman.

it is horrendous

and the people that defend him are just as bad as him

I still say Joran would be safer in jail.

By roaming free, Joran has gotten the death penalty.  Think about it.  Joran is killing himself with drugs, alcohol, deviant sex (we know from Mel that he likes rough sex), gambling debts (which he apparently doesn't cover), and criminal activities gone bad. 

What kind of job is he going to get?

Legal job--fuggettabout it, what can he possibly put on his job application?  Any company will know this kid is a liability.
Illegal job--who wants a blabbermouth in their organization, not to mention a loose cannon.

Soul mate?

Happy home--Who in their right mind would want to be his life partner? 
                --Who is going to take their kids to visit Uncle Sporter?
                --He can't even have sex without killing someone for pity sake.

Who will stand by him?

His parents--There are so many things I could say here but I will let their parenting speak for itself.  I think they stand by him now out of guilt for not getting him the help he needed early on.  They will burn out trying to defend him for the rest of his life.  (In the scenario where they are not involved.)

His friends--it's only a matter of time before he dimes the person/people out who did this with him.  He will need something from someone so badly that he will trade this answer for it eventually.
              --some of his "friends" will eventually grow out of their adolescence.
              --he doesn't have any good friends if he could latch onto someone as fast and as hard as he did Patrick.
              --How does he know the next person he meets isn't another Patrick?
              --some of the people he hangs around with now think the gangsta stuff is cool.  It will get old.
              --He is incapable of holding a LT friendship at this point.  He doesn't have it in him.

His brothers--He was already put out into his apartment as a young kid to keep them safe.

His future children--Dad, you're on TV again!!!

Any word from Kyle?  Saw he was on earlier but didn't post?  Praying for all these guys out there!

You only choose option 2 if something is not right. Otherwise there is no reason not to call 911. Joran must have done something to Natalee that could not see the light of day. Only then you choose option 2, to dispose the body of someone who just stopped responding or went into a fit. It makes no sense.

I don't know how many of you saw Beth on GMA this morning but Diane Sawyer asked her after viewing the tape and hearing/seeing the hideous things that pig had to say about Natalee and joking about how he lost no sleep over it, to ask Beth if she was not disturbed that he was recorded without prior knowledge.

I wanted to slap her face.  Beth told her she was not in the least, that it gave her the answers she needed to get beyond and start to heal and if this is the way to get it, it is the only way or something to that effect, but you could see the wheels grinding in Diane Sawyer's head that she was trying to defend the method by which this information was obtained.  Journalists are below lawyers some days, and today was her beneath lawyer day for me.

Yay -- I'm a Monkey!! I've been following this site since Natalee first disappared but this is my first post. I really want the confession to be true, and I think it really has the ring of truth given how it was filmed and the things he said -- plus, I can't see why he would tell yet a different lie to this "friend". Also, this story is relatively simple, and generally I tend to believe that things have a simple explanation. However, I'm a bit skeptical because I can't understand how Satish and Deepak fit into this story. And they must fit in somewhere, since they lied too. If the suggestion is that they lied because they were bribed to, I'm not sure why this would be necessary if JVS's family connections could cover up for him at a higher level. How do you guys think everyone else fits into this story?

Yep!  You're a monkey!

Welcome!  (Pretend there is a nice flowery thing here like CBB has)

JOE T. from GMA this morning

GMA:

Joining us now is Joran van der Sloot's attorney, Joseph Tacopina, to get this side of the story. Thank you Joe for being here.

We know that the prosecutors are asking for the case to be re-opened but right now they're not going to re-arrest your client?

Joe:

Well they tried. The prosecution had this tape for over a week and they struggled with the evidenciary value of it because they didn't even seek to re-arrest Joran for a week. They've arrested him twice in this case with no evidence. They went to a Judge finally after we sort of questioned why they wouldn't even seek an arrest and Joran denied Joran's arrest last night, which speaks volumes for the evidenciary value of this tape.

There are problems inherent in the tape, many of the facts are easily disprovable based on corroborative evidence. No one's asking at this point, certainly I'm not asking anyone to believe Joran, or any of his statements. Clearly his credibility is zero, but look separately, look independently at what he's saying are the facts in this case, the evidence and his story is inconsistent as it was

GMA:

Why would he lie like that?

Joe:

Well look, you know that is the toughest question but the facts are easily disprovable. The guy allegedly with the boat, Daury, wasn't even in Aruba in May of 2005, he's never owned a boat, Joran didn't meet him until 2 months ago so he made up these facts.

On thing that you'll see in this tape recording that you've played earlier is he said, the undercover said "In a boat?" and Joran paused and said "yes". Understand that each and every one of these conversations are after there was marijuana induced, introduced into the set, this undercover if you will provided Joran with drugs, marijuana, things like that, said things, he was acting like an idiot quite frankly but don't forget this individual just said he was making himself out to be a mobster, a criminal, a big individual and I think Joran was just playing this game.

He's [inaudible) about a lot of other things too independent of this investigation.

GMA:

But why would he go into such great detail. For Joran to know that people have suspected him and to go into such great detail, to talk with someone as he did with this informant, has a lot of people saying, at the very least, if he did not kill her, that he was there and was involved in the disappearance and wasn't that a crime in itself?

Joe:

Well actually no, there is no admission. This thing has been deemed a confession and that was done for ratings for this guy's show in The Netherlands last night. It was deemed a confession, there's no confession, there's no admission of a crime by Joran in any of these tapes, which is very telling, I mean that's one of the things the prosecution

GMA:

But to say that he was there, that she may still have been alive when she was thrown into the water?

Joe:

No, no, he didn't say that. There are various portions of this tape where his story is drastically different and that's part of the reason, you know he doesn't have details that are accurrate, his story changes over 20 hours but what he says is she died, he panicked and called a friend from a payphone, which by the way is disprovable because the Aruban Coast Guard has already looked at that payphone and there's no such call, we have the records.

GMA:

What are the authorities telling you right now?

Joe:

They're looking at the case again, which they should do. Joran deserves this if you will, but the fact of the matter is he's still not responsible, the evidence, not Joran, the evidence says he's not responsible for Natalee's death.

GMA:

Joseph Tacopina, thank you very much.

Joran on tape said he would have been screwed if they found her body. Patrick asked why and he never really gave a answer. This confirms what Deepak said..If they find the girl,they will see the shit. You will get 15 years,you can say byyye to that scholarship of yours.

If nothing else,he is hated man right now in Holland. His own words said he was trying to prosper off of a victim he killed,and lost no sleep over any of it. Those people aren't stupid and most are thinking just like us. Everyone will be outraged until he is arrested and convicted,it will be a long time before people forget about last nights show in Holland.

if they can find Natalee and i hope they  do for the sake of the family
im not sure it will help in the legal part of the case...it might

but, there will just be more lies

Aruba and the Dutch have everything they need to do something
they probably wont based on everything they have not done so far

Joran is done with ever having a normal life, he has ruined his whole family
aruba is toast, the dutch have been tainted

mos looks like a fool
the judges look like fools

people will not go to aruba in the same way they used to

all of the money they have spent on defending this has all been for NOTHING

keep sending money to people like TACO

keep trying to defend it

it aint going anywhere but down a toilet -

"Welcome to TOILET ISLAND where we kill people and then ATTMEPT to cover it up
and we cant even do that sucessfully"



 

I really think we need a 'bitch slap' monkey as there are so many of them.

Welcome Jules34!

::MonkeyDance::  I bet Klaas could fix us right up with Diane Sawyer and a bitchslap monkey.

Jules, we are as happy you are a monkey as you are to be one.  Now just jump right in and post.  If we ignore you, it's because we have so much to say but we do read everybody's post and if we agree with you, we often will not say anything but if we disagree, you can bet we will be right there letting you know.  Disagreement around here does not mean we get down and mean, just argue the "fine" points if there are any fine points in this sordid web Joran has woven.

hi jules  ::MonkeyCool::

I haven't been here for a long time but felt it appropriate to stop in now.  Hopefully the Holloway family will finally get some type of resolution.  After reading the translation of Joran's statements last night, I am wondering if he substituted Daury's name for Paulus'. 

Robots, are you flirting?

 ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyShocked:: ::MonkeyHaHa::

The one that everyone was counting legs to see how many peeps were in the pic. 2 guys and a woman walking in a garden....It was a long time ago TIA

  Thank you Mums,  and hope that you are having a great Monday AM  <g>
  your Ohio Pal  Jerry

Welcome to SM Bob! Many people here think so. Personally I think he was describing Lorenzo Van Rijn(Rumored half brother)

"Im prefer not to tell names,Because he has always had my back"
"Look,this friend is quite clever and he's a bit older,We have been friends since kids"
"I've never told anyone about this man.Its not easy"
"I'll never tell his name,I will take it to my grave"
"I'd give my life to help him"