Natalee Case Discussion #727 2/8 - 2/10/08

[Tylergal]

vms ... I have never read this article.

Thank you.

Janet

You are welcome. I thought Beth looked very pretty in that picture, if not for the background...

By the way, I enjoyed your grandson story. I wish you were my grandmother. That would make you very old though. 

vms ... I am getting there but not quite yet.  This 61 year old Mama was skiiing the slopes of Whistler yesterday and ... had one fantastic day.  Papa ... four years older ... was doing great along side of sons and relatives on his snowboard.

We both concede to a little stiffness today but ... the fun day makes it all worth shile.

Janet

God bless you for doing that.  This is a moment that will live with a grandchild for ever. To this day I still recall the times when my grandfather far past that age would get out and pitch a softball to me or guard so I could shoot baskets and learn how to do it competitively. 

[private eye]

another thing

discrediting Patrick van der Eem.

i forget where i heard it, radio, tv i watch read and listen to almost everything about this.

*scar: Boca Grande - Big Mouth - he has been a snitch before after a drugs deal went bad - source: criminal sector
*scar: journalist? called Patrick's boss/coworker to ask about his scar.
boss/coworker said when he started working here he said it was because of a car-accident.
same journalist calls back some time later and the same boss/coworker says the scar was because of a fight.

>> i stick of course with Patrick's version as said on Pauw/Witteman with Peter R. present:

scar is because of a fight.

i just put this out here. in case of this is mentioned somewhere.

I personally don't care how he got the scar but if he got it by snitching on the drug lords and he's turned his life around...more power to him.

I personally think this whole taping ordeal was done by organized crime in Aruba because they have tired of the mess Joran has brought the island, and it is obvious to them he can't be helped by avoiding prosecution. I also feel if Anita fights his prosecution and is successful, that the next step by them will be to kill him. If he was my son and I truly loved him, I would be rushing him directly to jail, seeking to get him the help he needs, protecting him from these people, protecting his siblings from a warped life, and trying to earn Joran a second chance at a life. I find it unusually cruel and stupid for Anita to not be doing this.

What Joran did was horrible, I hate what he did, and I would love to personally beat him to within an inch of his life, literally. But within an inch is a lot different than killing him, and not allowing him to be prosecuted is to allow him to either be killed or to live a life not worth living. ANITA DO YOU LOVE HIM OR NOT, OR ARE YOU SIMPLY BLIND AND AS STUPID AS YOU LOOK!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kiwi]

‘Joran persona non grata’
Justice-minister Rudy Croes does no longer want Joran van der Sloot on the island, because he has caused and is still causing a lot of damage to the image of Aruba.

ORANJESTAD – The minister of Justice, Rudy Croes has declared Joran van der Sloot, who is suspected of having murdered Natalee Holloway, persona non grata.  Other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island.   

The ministry of Justice also proposes this vote of censure in the light of a package of measures to tackle the criminality problems among Aruban and Antillean young persons in the Netherlands that is agreed on in the Dutch cabinet.  The Dutch Justice-minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin is preparing a law that makes it possible to send them back to Aruba or the Antilles if necessary.  “Let Joran be the first example of a Dutchman that is not wanted in Aruba”, said the minister, who also knows that judicially, it’s going to be difficult to really deny him admission to the country.  “I simply do not want him here.”

Also Joran’s father, lawyer Paul van der Sloot seems to fall into disfavour with the Justice-minister.  The justice-department does not rule out the fact that the lawyer has smuggled in a cellular phone for his son, when he was in prison.  Joran mentioned that when the Dutch crime journalist Peter R. de Vries was secretly recording him.  Justice is now investigating whether Van der Sloot must be dismissed as member of the special committee on the prison system.  The same applies to his participation in the LAR-committee.  Legislation Administration and Judicial Affairs is checking whether he can still be a lawyer.  The president of the Bar, Ronald Wix indicated that there no reason for that yet.  “If it turns out that what Joran said is true, we will take disciplinary measures.  He indicated in a letter to the Dutch programme Pauw & Witteman that what Joran said it is not true.”

All eyes are now focused on the declaration that Joran van der Sloot wants to give to the police.  According to his lawyers’ firm in the Netherlands, he hadn’t done that yet yesterday.  On no account does the Public Prosecutor (OM) want to say where, when, or if there’s going to be an encounter.   The ministry of Justice said that two detectives from Aruba had gone to the Netherlands for this.   Also chief prosecutor Hans Mos is in the Netherlands, but supposedly on vacation.

Because the suspect has voluntarily committed to give a statement, the OM must passively wait a see whether Van der Sloot will come to the police station.  Arresting him is impossible, as long as the examining magistrate in Oranjestad does not give permission for this.  The OM had till this afternoon to submit the court of Justice with all relevant information and objections regarding the appeal against the decision that the examining magistrate made last week, not to arrest Joran.  The court will decide on this next week.

Patrick van der Eem not welcome in the US due to his drugs past.

PATRICK

The interest for the Holloway-case remains the same in the United States.  Peter R. de Vries, who left for the United States last Wednesday to appear in among others the Larry King show and Good Morning America, receives most of the attention.  One of the first things that Larry King wanted to know from De Vries was whether he has questioned the reliability of informant Patrick van der Eem.  He has a criminal record and he has drugged Joran van der Sloot to encourage him to confess, said King.  “Smoking marihuana is Joran’s daily routine anyway”, answered De Vries, who didn’t think Van der Eem’s past is important.   

But Justice in the US thought differently and arrested Van der Eem immediately after arrival at JFK-airport in New York.  They put him on the very next plane to the Netherlands.  Because of his criminal record, Van der Eem was not allowed to enter the US.  The idea was that together with De Vries, he would also go on tour to all the big American TV-stations.

'Natalee was epileptic'

Also the family Holloway is receiving a lot of attention again from the media in the US.  Natalee’s mother Beth Twitty is often seen in the company of Peter R. de Vries. 

Also Natalee’s stepfather Jug Twitty got to speak.  According to him, the police and justice in Aruba had covered up the true fact of Natalee’s disappearance.  Joran’s declaration that Natalee had suddenly started to shake on the beach is according to him the indication that the authorities knew in 2005 already what had happened.  “I now understand why, two weeks after her disappearance, the police asked us if Natalee was suffering of epileptic attacks”, he told the journalists.  “Twitty had already mentioned on TV last year that Aruban detectives have asked him about Natalee’s epileptic or allergic reactions.  It is not inconceivable that during the ‘spy confessions’, Joran has used Twitty’s statements to trace a wrong track.”

Amigoe

******* -towards the top of the story they mention investigating the phone. Just suggesting the snapshot of Joran using his phone in jail would be our duty to send to the powers that be. I know they investigated it and Joran said what phone? So that was good enough for them.

[Tylergal]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Somebody help me with the use of the virus "Maggot."  Does it mean the computer was infected by going to these sites or that the files were put into an area where "Maggot" would infect them.  I am having trouble understanding it.

[klaasend]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Thanks!  Actually that website got them from us.  They are in the Important Case Document area 

[Observer]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Hi,Yes old news but good to look at. At 8:37PM PVDS is looking up Drugs,alcohol,the dangers of this for young people and a lawyers office. Then a catastrophic virus hits the computer and erases/corrupts most everything at 9:18PM on May 30th 2005

[Tylergal]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Hi,Yes old news but good to look at. At 8:37PM PVDS is looking up Drugs,alcohol,the dangers of this for young people and a lawyers office. Then a catastrophic virus hits the computer and erases/corrupts most everything at 9:18PM on May 30th 2005

What I am trying to understand is this.  Did the computer become infected with this virus after seeing these sites or did Joran get instructions from Deepak on how to send these files to "Maggie" so that they would become corrupted?

[klaasend]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Somebody help me with the use of the virus "Maggot."  Does it mean the computer was infected by going to these sites or that the files were put into an area where "Maggot" would infect them.  I am having trouble understanding it.

I believe MAGGOT = WORM

http://kb.iu.edu/data/aehm.html

Worms
Worms are very similar to viruses in that they are computer programs that replicate functional copies of themselves (usually to other computer systems via network connections) and often, but not always, contain some functionality that will interfere with the normal use of a computer or a program. The difference is that unlike viruses, worms exist as separate entities; they do not attach themselves to other files or programs. Because of their similarity to viruses, worms are often also referred to as viruses.

[private eye]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Hi,Yes old news but good to look at. At 8:37PM PVDS is looking up Drugs,alcohol,the dangers of this for young people and a lawyers office. Then a catastrophic virus hits the computer and erases/corrupts most everything at 9:18PM on May 30th 2005

May 30? This was before anything happened wasn't it?

[Observer]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Somebody help me with the use of the virus "Maggot."  Does it mean the computer was infected by going to these sites or that the files were put into an area where "Maggot" would infect them.  I am having trouble understanding it.

Yes like a worm,that run a program to corrupt the entire system and HD.  Deepak probably infected the Computer after PVDS did his research.

[Tylergal]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Hi,Yes old news but good to look at. At 8:37PM PVDS is looking up Drugs,alcohol,the dangers of this for young people and a lawyers office. Then a catastrophic virus hits the computer and erases/corrupts most everything at 9:18PM on May 30th 2005

If the date was true date and nothing had been done to the computer as suggested by our FBI agents, that it had, then they were "targeting" Natalee with every intention of raping and murdering her.  That is 4-5 hours before she died.

[klaasend]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Hi,Yes old news but good to look at. At 8:37PM PVDS is looking up Drugs,alcohol,the dangers of this for young people and a lawyers office. Then a catastrophic virus hits the computer and erases/corrupts most everything at 9:18PM on May 30th 2005

May 30? This was before anything happened wasn't it?

Unless the time/date stamp was tampered with which was mentioned early in the case.

[Tylergal]

Hello eveyone!

Klassend:  I didn;t know if anyone has posted the JORAN VAN DER SLOOTS FORENSIC COMPUTOR RECORDS, Iknow it is probably old news, because all this happened so long ago,July I think,,, but here is the link

http://dissfunktional.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/joran-van-der-sloots-forensic-computer-records/

Somebody help me with the use of the virus "Maggot."  Does it mean the computer was infected by going to these sites or that the files were put into an area where "Maggot" would infect them.  I am having trouble understanding it.

Yes like a worm,that run a program to corrupt the entire system and HD.  Deepak probably infected the Computer after PVDS did his research.

Thanks, that was what I was trying to ascertain, that perhaps this was done so as to obscure, which was suggested by a couple FBI agents that I saw on Fox one morning in late June or early July discussing this, that the computers had been "dinked" with by someone who was computer-savvy and that even the times had been changed.

[Tylergal]

Along those same lines of the computer tampering, the FBI agents suggested the phone calls were made to each other to throw off the investigation and that perhaps the phone calls were made from one to the other while they were all in the same location.  They were saying that something to do with the towers, the phone calls could be made and it would not be picked up if one of them were just within a few feet of the other.  Not sure how that worked either,  , more than my brain can handle but after these appearances on TV, I determined that our FBI would be kicked out of Aruba.  Ta da.

[Observer]

******* -towards the top of the story they mention investigating the phone. Just suggesting the snapshot of Joran using his phone in jail would be our duty to send to the powers that be. I know they investigated it and Joran said what phone? So that was good enough for them.

It's a good idea,but I don't think they would do a damn thing about it. Some of their emails are available at the police site but I don't recall seeing Mos or Rudy Croes. I certainly don't trust Papito Commencia either. Who else would be good to send it to? I know Joran was also logging into his Myspace account at that time also. The photo shows someone was using Joran's phone but it doesn't prove without a doubt it was him. Even though we know it was probably him. We all know he was probably in luxury at the KIA in solitary confinement,thanks to his dad's buddy's that run the prison and him being on the prison committee.

[Kermit]

Yes they tried to frame the guards but the "heavy battery" charge was against Guido Wever, I think.

janssen was quoted as saying "there's more than circumstantial evidence" to hold the guards for murder...

Tamikosmom, can you help?

Van der Biezen would not elaborate about evidence gathered in the investigation, but she did say that authorities would not have prolonged the detention if they only had circumstantial evidence.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/07/missing.teen/index.html

[caesu]

another thing

discrediting Patrick van der Eem.

i forget where i heard it, radio, tv i watch read and listen to almost everything about this.

*scar: Boca Grande - Big Mouth - he has been a snitch before after a drugs deal went bad - source: criminal sector
*scar: journalist? called Patrick's boss/coworker to ask about his scar.
boss/coworker said when he started working here he said it was because of a car-accident.
same journalist calls back some time later and the same boss/coworker says the scar was because of a fight.

>> i stick of course with Patrick's version as said on Pauw/Witteman with Peter R. present:

scar is because of a fight.

i just put this out here. in case of this is mentioned somewhere.

Luckily, we don't have to trust Patrick, we get to hear and watch Joran ourselves, and his guilt is undeniable. Remember we use to tease that even if we found a video of Joran doing the deed, they would refuse to prosecute him. Well, this isn't of the deed, but it is damn close. I bet those are fake joints he is smoking as well aren't they Anita. Or they are obviously his first experience with pot, huh:) NOT

that's right. i wanted to add something like that but i hesitated.
even if patrick is a big criminal, even if patrick en joran split the money.
we KNOW what kind of evil sick maniac creature Joran is coming straigth out of the dirtiest ditch ever found.

(it think it says a lot this sloot = ditch translation  )

slot = lock
slot = castle, château
op slot = closed (his mouth is closed) (perfect tense)
sloot = ditch
sloot = closed (i closed) (past tense)
sloot = as in very small canal, but a ditch is dirty but there are also sloten (plural) who are not dirty and still called sloot.

sinister rimes:

dood = dead
boot = boat
bloot = naked
nood = danger
lood = lead (element Pb 82) heavy...

there are jokes and songs about JvdS/PvdS made which use these words to make rimes this week.

you never know.
in the mean time a dutch lesson 

[Nut44x4]

******* per Martini's post maybe you should send Mr Croes the screen capture of Joran using his cell phone in jail the last time. It sure looks like proof of Jorans comments about a cell phone in jail.

That needs to be sent to many people!! It should have been done before Joran got out of jail so someone could catch him with it...but now it MUST be done!

[teacat]

I have the same problem with the seizures. I just can't imagine the clean-up crew agreeing to a disposal of a live or dead body due to a seizure. But if they, J2k did something more such as rape, drugging or battery then they would risk helping them. Someone was willing to help with there problem, this wouldn't be extended to every drunk girl Joran has ever met. Per his own comments he has done this 20 times prior. Hopefully there are not 20 missing girls with a call out for the clean-up.

One good case for battery is that Kalpoe comment, "If they find her they will see that shit." I don't give either one of those nitwits credit for knowing about forensics testing for drugs so this leads me to believe they are talking about something physical.

It also tells us right up front they know much more more than they are telling.

hmmmm I disagree with the thought that they would not know about forensic testing. And the use of the word "shit" reads real to me. A teenager would not say "If they find her they will see drugs in her system" . If she had physical evidence like bruising or broken skin, they could claim she fell, or deny any knowledge. But drugs in her system and he/they were seen with her last, it would be hard to convince anyone that she voluntarily ate GBH. 
I do agree that they know so much more and cannot understand how they live with themselves. I'll NEVER understand how these people live with their consciences. Either they are all socio-pyschopaths or they are protecting someone. I also don't understand how they aren't all disappearing, one by one, if this drug-world is so prevalent in Aruba. These low-level dare I say, idiots are not worth keeping around if they threaten the mob.

[dennisintn]

******* per Martini's post maybe you should send Mr Croes the screen capture of Joran using his cell phone in jail the last time. It sure looks like proof of Jorans comments about a cell phone in jail.

Send to Mr.Rudy Croes?  I did post it on a board for all the Dutch to see since they all know Joran said PVDS gave him a phone in prison,not sure who else to show..If the Arubans had a blog that talked about the case I would surely post it there as well. I also posted the Pic of the sloots celebrating a few days early and there reporter friend announcing that Joran was released before the Judge made his decision. I think the release of the pic's of the sloot's celebrating at a cocktail party that was in Awemainta was a day too early,it was the same day that Julia said Joran would be released. Strange how they knew this before the Judge even made his decision.

if you have a pic of jvds using a cellphone in jail, email it to jossy, croes, mos, and the head of the aruban bar assoc.  you're bound to get action that way.
dennisintn