Kyron Horman, 7 years old, Portland OR #39 12/24/10 - 1/01/11

[fatcatlurker]

I know no matter how any of us may feel we are all here for Kyron.  I sure wish this little guy would be found.  Night Night Monkeys!

[Tracygirl]

I also thought it odd there were no kid toys in the yard, sandbox, swing set, whatever. But I grew up without that in the yard, and didn't seem to mind. I had to look up feng shui because I never heard of that. My style of decorating is what I like to call schizophrenic/eclectic, and I really like it, but I suppose some might think some weird thoughts about it all. I just throw stuff together and make it work. I don't think that I've ever discussed this topic when following a case. I might have thought, the house and yard look like pigs live there, or the house and yard look well kept, but that was it.

LOL, my style of decorating is called...poor

lol, that is cute.
I have not said this before but I am an interior decorator, have been for a few years now. I have my own business and everything.  The most imporant thing I have always told my clients is to make sure your house is a place you wish to call home. If you want blue walls an pink couch, I will get that for you. Everyone has a different taste level.   

[sebastian]

Tracygirl,
I love your posts, always have, always will. I know how much you care about all of the missing. My interpretation of Klaas' post was that she did not want anyone to insinuate that Kaine is a suspect. Anything more than that, I don't know. You and I spent so much time on Amber's thread. I wanted to let you know that I spoke to Amber's mom today and she is actively helping those with missing children and spent one of the holidays looking for a runaway. She has taken the horrible death of her precious Amber and is doing so much good in Amber's name. She is my hero! I sure wish that LE would let her interview the players in Kyron's disappearance!

[Puzzler]

Exactly right Puzzler, Staton did say no evidence of either. I believe that is why a deal "may" be made with a second or third party. To lead to the evidence. Possibly....

I hope DeDe decides to do the right thing and spill what she knows. I truly believe that DeDe has info.

Well, Kyron is gone, he didn't leave the school with Terri, so that means he left with someone else.  Find the someone else. That person would be the one to give LE what they need to arrest Terri.  That is the person that needs to be found to bring this to a close. 

[sebastian]

Exactly right Puzzler, Staton did say no evidence of either. I believe that is why a deal "may" be made with a second or third party. To lead to the evidence. Possibly....

I hope DeDe decides to do the right thing and spill what she knows. I truly believe that DeDe has info.

Well, Kyron is gone, he didn't leave the school with Terri, so that means he left with someone else.  Find the someone else. That person would be the one to give LE what they need to arrest Terri.  That is the person that needs to be found to bring this to a close. 

You don't think that it could be DeDe? I am not any sort of legal eagle. Do you know why Terri is not going to court? I just don't get the whole thing. IF she is innocent, why would it matter if she shows up for court and tries to get some visitation of Kiara? Is it because of Rudy Sanchez? Would they be able to use his testimony if they will not even give out his address to Terri's attorneys? I cannot understand why she would not show up for court if she is innocent.

[sebastian]

http://media.kval.com/documents/terri+withdraws+fapa+motion.pdf

In this withdrawal by Terri's attorney it states that Kaine's attorney will bring in medical records. I wonder what that is all about? If the records are Terri's, would that even be allowed under Hippa laws? Could the medical records be Kyron's? I just don't get any of this!

[Puzzler]

Exactly right Puzzler, Staton did say no evidence of either. I believe that is why a deal "may" be made with a second or third party. To lead to the evidence. Possibly....

I hope DeDe decides to do the right thing and spill what she knows. I truly believe that DeDe has info.

Well, Kyron is gone, he didn't leave the school with Terri, so that means he left with someone else.  Find the someone else. That person would be the one to give LE what they need to arrest Terri.  That is the person that needs to be found to bring this to a close. 

You don't think that it could be DeDe? I am not any sort of legal eagle. Do you know why Terri is not going to court? I just don't get the whole thing. IF she is innocent, why would it matter if she shows up for court and tries to get some visitation of Kiara? Is it because of Rudy Sanchez? Would they be able to use his testimony if they will not even give out his address to Terri's attorneys? I cannot understand why she would not show up for court if she is innocent.

Me, personally, I've just never had much of a thought that DeDe was included.  "If" in the end it turns out she is, I'll be really wrong, but I just haven't "felt" anything about DeDe.  I know...that doesn't make much sense.  Guess you'd have to know that my instincts are usually pretty good as long as I listen to them and I don't have any instincts WRT DeDe.

Terri not going to court about Kiara - "if" she's innocent, she could go to court and make a plea for her child.  Kaine's attorney has already made it clear in one of the filings, that his attorney will make demands in the form of several subpoenas for witness depositions, for medical records, for mental health tests, etc.   It's not even clear from the filing who all's medical records Kaine's attorney is talking about requesting.  Anyrate, IMO, it would take so long to schedule the depositions, the tests, obtain the records, that the request to see Kiara in the short-term up to the January 6 date, would be folly to carry on with as January 6 would come before all the other was accomplished...so Bunch dropped the request.

IMO the filing by Kaine's attorney was designed specifically to get the request to see Kiara dropped.  She succeeded in that endeavor. 

We also know through the court that Terri's attorneys have tried numerous times through Kaine's attorney to work out a plan for Terri to see Kiara and that hasn't worked. 

[sebastian]

Exactly right Puzzler, Staton did say no evidence of either. I believe that is why a deal "may" be made with a second or third party. To lead to the evidence. Possibly....

I hope DeDe decides to do the right thing and spill what she knows. I truly believe that DeDe has info.

Well, Kyron is gone, he didn't leave the school with Terri, so that means he left with someone else.  Find the someone else. That person would be the one to give LE what they need to arrest Terri.  That is the person that needs to be found to bring this to a close. 

You don't think that it could be DeDe? I am not any sort of legal eagle. Do you know why Terri is not going to court? I just don't get the whole thing. IF she is innocent, why would it matter if she shows up for court and tries to get some visitation of Kiara? Is it because of Rudy Sanchez? Would they be able to use his testimony if they will not even give out his address to Terri's attorneys? I cannot understand why she would not show up for court if she is innocent.

Me, personally, I've just never had much of a thought that DeDe was included.  "If" in the end it turns out she is, I'll be really wrong, but I just haven't "felt" anything about DeDe.  I know...that doesn't make much sense.  Guess you'd have to know that my instincts are usually pretty good as long as I listen to them and I don't have any instincts WRT DeDe.

Terri not going to court about Kiara - "if" she's innocent, she could go to court and make a plea for her child.  Kaine's attorney has already made it clear in one of the filings, that his attorney will make demands in the form of several subpoenas for witness depositions, for medical records, for mental health tests, etc.   It's not even clear from the filing who all's medical records Kaine's attorney is talking about requesting.  Anyrate, IMO, it would take so long to schedule the depositions, the tests, obtain the records, that the request to see Kiara in the short-term up to the January 6 date, would be folly to carry on with as January 6 would come before all the other was accomplished...so Bunch dropped the request.

IMO the filing by Kaine's attorney was designed specifically to get the request to see Kiara dropped.  She succeeded in that endeavor. 

We also know through the court that Terri's attorneys have tried numerous times through Kaine's attorney to work out a plan for Terri to see Kiara and that hasn't worked. 

I know that we are all different. If I were in Terri's shoes and were truly innocent, I would tell Kaine's attorney to BRING IT ON! I would have my own tests, evaluations and depositions. At least I would know that I tried EVERYTHING to see my child. I also think that Bunch would have Houze present to advise on all of this. This is the main reason that I feel Terri must be involved. I just do not know of ONE mother who would not fight tooth and nail and do whatever it took to see their child at Kiara's young age.

[Puzzler]

Exactly right Puzzler, Staton did say no evidence of either. I believe that is why a deal "may" be made with a second or third party. To lead to the evidence. Possibly....

I hope DeDe decides to do the right thing and spill what she knows. I truly believe that DeDe has info.

Well, Kyron is gone, he didn't leave the school with Terri, so that means he left with someone else.  Find the someone else. That person would be the one to give LE what they need to arrest Terri.  That is the person that needs to be found to bring this to a close. 

You don't think that it could be DeDe? I am not any sort of legal eagle. Do you know why Terri is not going to court? I just don't get the whole thing. IF she is innocent, why would it matter if she shows up for court and tries to get some visitation of Kiara? Is it because of Rudy Sanchez? Would they be able to use his testimony if they will not even give out his address to Terri's attorneys? I cannot understand why she would not show up for court if she is innocent.

Me, personally, I've just never had much of a thought that DeDe was included.  "If" in the end it turns out she is, I'll be really wrong, but I just haven't "felt" anything about DeDe.  I know...that doesn't make much sense.  Guess you'd have to know that my instincts are usually pretty good as long as I listen to them and I don't have any instincts WRT DeDe.

Terri not going to court about Kiara - "if" she's innocent, she could go to court and make a plea for her child.  Kaine's attorney has already made it clear in one of the filings, that his attorney will make demands in the form of several subpoenas for witness depositions, for medical records, for mental health tests, etc.   It's not even clear from the filing who all's medical records Kaine's attorney is talking about requesting.  Anyrate, IMO, it would take so long to schedule the depositions, the tests, obtain the records, that the request to see Kiara in the short-term up to the January 6 date, would be folly to carry on with as January 6 would come before all the other was accomplished...so Bunch dropped the request.

IMO the filing by Kaine's attorney was designed specifically to get the request to see Kiara dropped.  She succeeded in that endeavor. 

We also know through the court that Terri's attorneys have tried numerous times through Kaine's attorney to work out a plan for Terri to see Kiara and that hasn't worked. 

I know that we are all different. If I were in Terri's shoes and were truly innocent, I would tell Kaine's attorney to BRING IT ON! I would have my own tests, evaluations and depositions. At least I would know that I tried EVERYTHING to see my child. I also think that Bunch would have Houze present to advise on all of this. This is the main reason that I feel Terri must be involved. I just do not know of ONE mother who would not fight tooth and nail and do whatever it took to see their child at Kiara's young age.

Understand and agree.
But "Bring It On" would start all the requests in motion and could take much longer that January 6.  I think that has a lot to do with it.  PLUS any interrgation Terri herself would undergo on the stand will be putting her on trial "before" any actual criminal charges have been brought.  Since Bunch can't even get "contact info" on Rudy from LE - there's no way that she could defend any accusations in the divorce case, if she can't even have access to contact info or 9ll call from Dec. 26, 2009.    If you (Terri) know that, then your "stifled" and to bring it on would severely hamper you in any quest to see your child.   Sort of like the "Thorn Bird" hurling himself onto a thorn and killing himself.  Duh!  That's the way I see it anyway.

[Puzzler]

I wonder if on Jan. 6 the judge will abate the divorce for a longer amount of time or just go through with the hearing?

It's public knowledge that Stanton is hoping to make and arrest of name a "suspect" by February 1.  Will the divorce judge abate the case until after that date?

Or, since Terri has already stipulated her agreement for the divorce, will the judge go ahead and grant the divorce?

If so, will the judge postpone the settlement and the custdoy portions to a time in the future?

So many questions; Jan. 6 will be interesting.

[sebastian]

I wonder if on Jan. 6 the judge will abate the divorce for a longer amount of time or just go through with the hearing?

It's public knowledge that Stanton is hoping to make and arrest of name a "suspect" by February 1.  Will the divorce judge abate the case until after that date?

Or, since Terri has already stipulated her agreement for the divorce, will the judge go ahead and grant the divorce?

If so, will the judge postpone the settlement and the custdoy portions to a time in the future?

So many questions; Jan. 6 will be interesting.

I truly do not think that LE will have much of a case unless they find Kyron. There is always the possibility that they have a witness or two that saw Kyron with Terri after the SF, but if that were the case, you would think that Terri would be behind bars.

[sebastian]

Hi Puzzler,
I don't want to stack posts. I just want to say that if Terri has nothing to hide, what difference would any of this make. There must be more to the story. What depositions and how could they harm Terri if they are hearsay? Medical records? I cannot imagine that they would be Terri's medical records due to Hippa. If they are Kyron's medical records, what would that produce? I guess I am looking at the flip side of this. Terri could have her own depositions, etc. Terri has claimed in emails that she did all of the work, was the primary caregiver, etc. If all of that is true and IF she is innocent, she has a good case. I would also think that LE would not want to show their hand in this divorce proceeding if they are truly planning to prosecute Terri at some time in the future. I don't know how much information LE would be willing to share with Kaine's attorney regarding the criminal matter. Personally, I think that this is a double edged sword.

[Puzzler]

I wonder if on Jan. 6 the judge will abate the divorce for a longer amount of time or just go through with the hearing?

It's public knowledge that Stanton is hoping to make and arrest of name a "suspect" by February 1.  Will the divorce judge abate the case until after that date?

Or, since Terri has already stipulated her agreement for the divorce, will the judge go ahead and grant the divorce?

If so, will the judge postpone the settlement and the custdoy portions to a time in the future?

So many questions; Jan. 6 will be interesting.

I truly do not think that LE will have much of a case unless they find Kyron. There is always the possibility that they have a witness or two that saw Kyron with Terri after the SF, but if that were the case, you would think that Terri would be behind bars.

These excerpts are from the 12/04/2010 interview with Stanton –pretty much spells it out:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html

(snip) “They point to one undeniable fact: They lack any physical evidence of Kyron, or physical evidence that links anyone to his disappearance.” (snip)

(snip) "Our biggest hurdle: We don't have the kid, alive or dead." (snip)

(snip) "Barring an unexpected evidentiary development," said Norm Frink, Multnomah County chief deputy district attorney, "the investigation is going to continue for months."  (snip)

(snip) "That six-hour window -- a lot was lost," Staton said. "That's still frustrating to me because I think that's one of the things that really hurt. That six hours ... I wish we could regain those six hours." (snip)

(snip) And, with "not one shred of evidence to indicate the child has died," Staton said, investigators must push forward as though Kyron is still alive. (snip)

[Puzzler]

Hi Puzzler,
I don't want to stack posts. I just want to say that if Terri has nothing to hide, what difference would any of this make. There must be more to the story. What depositions and how could they harm Terri if they are hearsay? Medical records? I cannot imagine that they would be Terri's medical records due to Hippa. If they are Kyron's medical records, what would that produce? I guess I am looking at the flip side of this. Terri could have her own depositions, etc. Terri has claimed in emails that she did all of the work, was the primary caregiver, etc. If all of that is true and IF she is innocent, she has a good case. I would also think that LE would not want to show their hand in this divorce proceeding if they are truly planning to prosecute Terri at some time in the future. I don't know how much information LE would be willing to share with Kaine's attorney regarding the criminal matter. Personally, I think that this is a double edged sword.

I, too, think there's more to the story.  I think somewhere along the line, Terri has some culpability. I think the medical records can be subpoened if a good enough reason is shown to the judge.  I don't imagine that Kaine would want to subpoena Kyron's records...more like Terri's records and maybe Jame's records...who knows...

But sense we're talking about "if" she's innocent: it's easy to say - judge I didn't do that - Kaine's attorney says if you didn't then prove it - Bunch says it can be proven, judge, if you'll just let me have a copy of the 911 call made on Dec. 26, 2009 and the judges says he's sorry but can't do that because the criminal investigation trumps a "civil case". 

See...she could be innocent but need access to prove certain things and can't have access because of the criminal investigation - LE will NOT release the information. 

We know that Bunch has discussed in divorce court that he can't get contact info on RS (an alias) and a copy of the 911 call on Dec. 26, 2009.  So, those two things must be important to Terri's side in the divorce case.

Imagine if you were in that situation and were innocent - what a travesty it would be to you if you testified to such-and-such but your hands were tied WRT obtaining any evidence that could help you prove your statement.

That the part about law that's hard to take.  The court will not always just accept your word that your innocent.  Sometimes you have to have back-up to prove it.  Otherwise, in the civil court it's just Kaine saying blah and Terri saying blah.  He said; she said.

[Puzzler]

This twisting and meshing a "civil" case inside and ongoing "criminal" investigation is a "big deal" - never happened before in the State of Oregon.

[Puzzler]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

(snip) Meisenheimer found there's "substantial overlap of evidence" between the divorce case and the criminal inquiry and parallel proceedings could create a discovery nightmare. But he said he also had to balance Terri Horman's constitutional rights with Kaine Horman's right to a prompt resolution of custody, parenting, property and financial matters. (snip)

(snip) Meisenheimer called the issues "extraordinary, difficult and complex" and unlike any that have come before state family law court. (snip)

[Puzzler]

I'm hopeful at this point that there will soon be a break in the case.  With the Jan. 6 court date, the Feb. 1 Stanton date for the task force, there's two good reasons that information will be made available.

When  this is over, I hope everyone involved is brought to justice - any and all involved in disappearing Kyron; anyone involved in obstructing justice (family members, friends, neighbors, school faculty, parents of students, landscapers, etc.); anyone who lied to the FBI (one provable lie with the Feds and you're in jail); just anyone.  ALL OF THEM - I'm hoping will have the sun shining down on them and justice brought against them. 

Most of all...I want Kyron to come home.

[Monkey King]

I've said this before, the smartest thing Terri did was lawyer up. IF Terri is innocent, which is very possible, as Klaas stated, this will follow her forever. Despite being cleared and a "new" perp being discovered, some will continue to believe in her guilt. For instance, look at the Ramseys. The immed family has been ruled out- cleared publically. If you talk to people they still maintain Patsy did it. What do we know about Suspect Zero other than they are male? Could this individual be the male Terri allegedly saw Kyron with under the assumtion this was a male chaperone with the two girls as she stated? Why was this not considered when it was first reported? Why didn't Desiree and Kaine demand this be followed up on? Too many questions, not enough answers.

[Puzzler]

I've said this before, the smartest thing Terri did was lawyer up. IF Terri is innocent, which is very possible, as Klaas stated, this will follow her forever. Despite being cleared and a "new" perp being discovered, some will continue to believe in her guilt. For instance, look at the Ramseys. The immed family has been ruled out- cleared publically. If you talk to people they still maintain Patsy did it. What do we know about Suspect Zero other than they are male? Could this individual be the male Terri allegedly saw Kyron with under the assumtion this was a male chaperone with the two girls as she stated? Why was this not considered when it was first reported? Why didn't Desiree and Kaine demand this be followed up on? Too many questions, not enough answers.

Male chaperone and 2 girls - I believe that wording was in an email that Terri sent out within a day or two after Kyron went missing.  I don't think she "saw" them.  I think she was told that Kyron was seen with a male chaperone and 2 girls.  I'm thinking that since LE was in the Horman home round the clock at that point and Terri said that she had several interviews with LE, that LE imparted the information about the male chaperone and 2 girls to the family. 

[no rose colored glasses]

That one post brought from Blink's site. I have to think on that one for awhile. Other kids that looked like Kyron? What if? Don't know what to think.  Tracy