Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

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AZSunny - I haven't seen it.  Is it in the segment at the end when Joran throws the wine?

It is the one that Anna posted. 

I think this is the one....

Has anyone posted Clint van Zandt on this wine throwing episode?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22635615#22635615

Freddy Maduro
'Countdown with Keith Olbermann'
August 25, 2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9085888

KOSINSKI (voice-over): … The prison director, Fred Maduro, used to work with Van Der Sloot’s father and knew Joran as a boy.

(on camera): Is it strange to see him in this environment?

FREDDY MADURO, ARUBA PRISON WARDEN: Yes, strange in a way, in another way, not, because of his temperament. When he doesn’t get his way, he gets very angry. I know that before, that already he was a very angry person.

KOSINSKI: And did you see some of his temper here in prison?

 MADURO: In beginning, yes, with the policemen. But then, afterwards, the policemen really rough him up.

KOSINSKI (voice-over): And he says Van Der Sloot got into a fight with another inmate.

MADURO: and he kicked a guy, and then he kept kicking in the same place. So, Joran’s pretty big. So, but the guy is small, but smaller than he is. But the guy (INAUDIBLE) hit him in the eye.

Start about 2:45 and go forward.

Oh, it's in this one?  Good, I can view this one OK.  I didn't notice the Anita part, I'll watch again.

Yes, Anna posted it earlier.  It's good.

it is towards the end when she starts fanning her shirt.  weird.  It is really hiked up too.

BBL...hubby said the timer on the oven is ringing it's head off...think he wants his dinner!  LOL

(I brought this post over from the other thread.)

I think that Anita actions in regards to the top of her outfit implies that she may have gotten splashed with some of that wine that Joran threw at Devries.

IMO

Janet

OMG, lololol   :lol: :lol: :lol:

OK, be back in a bit - need to go to work  :lol:

Snipped :Joran: Well it’s a small prison. The womensprison had their court-yard close to my cell-window and from them you hear stuff… They told me what was in the newspapers…
So, he was to be held with no communication with anyone. So he knew what was in the papers.

this is just one small demonstration that nothing is as it should be, or is touted to be on the happy island. 
dennisintn

Dvries needs to prosecute that pig for what he did.

Anita is removing the microphone.

Had to do it the hard way, capturing in frames...lolol  :lol:

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I agree but he won't do it.

Ah good point, you're probably right.

Just found this copy of the Nova interview with some translation:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PpPYqk_klXc&feature=related

San ... I do not know anything about microphones that are attached to the person so ... I will take your word for it.   :lol:

Janet

Wine

And why does he need "wine" to talk of case?

Typically 11% - 14% alcohol by volume.  3-4 times more potent than beer at usual 3.2 measure.  And one third the strength of standard "spirits" -- whiskey, vodka, rum, scotch, etc. -- at the usual 40% alcohol by volume.   

The dependency issue on view and undeniable.

The AOD issues are not just evident, but need and demand satisfaction.  Hence the appearance of wine on the set of the show.  Would you drink alcohol during a televised interview, with presumably so much at stake?  Do you take a shot or two before a job interview, and then request "wine" to just get through the discussion?
Likely not.  Almost no one does.  Except here.

What we do not see are the neuro-chemical charges firing in the brain of sloot, as he tries to make sense of disbelieving listeners, charges engorged and sharpened through the intake of even a relatively small amount of alcohol.  But tis like kerosene to the ember.

He may not seem "drunk" -- and by legal definition, he may not be.  And maybe he could even drink a "case of beer" before getting "drunk," as he claimed to Greta. 

But he cannot control the toxic and lethal mixing of the alcohol with his synapses, and the violence inherent in male AOD issues.  Particularly in an enabled environment where his parents have obviously refused to see with their eyes the issues at play.

It is not "anger management" -- it is AOD-fueled socipatheic rage.  The kind of rage that could get someone killed. 

And did.

. 

Thanks sirensong.

Janet

Posted by CancunMole at RU (interresting to see how Joran's latest stunt has affected the way people now see him):

Just about Every decent, loving Mother will defend and protect their Child even when They know or suspect something may be askew up to a point, IMO. At some point, not only the Mother but all observers Who have watched and hoped Otherwise may at some point see something that finally suggests that it just can't be......

FWIW and I'm sure this won't be popular on this Board anymore seeing what it seemingly has become, this most recent "INFRACTION" was the last for me. I've given the Sporter every benefit of the doubt until now... but to knowingly be under the spotlight and public scrutiny and behave in such an inflammatory and disrespectful manner WITH HIS MOST STAUNCH SUPPORTERS, HIS PARENTS, PRESENT shouts out as far as I'm concerned to say just WHAT the kid really is, a

Smug, self-confident, nasty, condescending, extremely smart crime and law -wise (for a babe of 17) and now openly defiant and disrespectful to ALL authority, no one else sees these as a questionable combination? Hello, if this was your very own kid acting this way would you think and feel the same way??? How proud and supportive would you really be???

Welcome!  Got it from someone at Gretawire.  I hope Peter follows Joran around just to see if he could catch him "losing it" again.  I am just stunned that he so easily lost it.  IMO he feels threatened by the fact that DeVries can play the game and not be conned.  He knows he sounded like a guilty man, with all his avoiding the questions and his slip of "being interrogated for murder" comment.  He didn't hold up and he blamed DeVries for making him look like an idiot in front of his dad.  I noticed DeVries also said he was glad Pauld didn't become a judge with his outlook on things.  That must have sent Joran to the moon LOL

Hammer - it appears Joran's little stunt has shown his true colors to many.  They now see Joran has no control over his anger.  Imagine what he would do with no cameras rolling and only a young girl saying no.

I do not agree!!!  There is nothing decent and loving about parents who will defend their child knowing that he/she is in the wrong.

Decent and loving parents assume the responsibility of training/teaching their child that there are boundaries which define right from wrong.  Decent and loving parents warn their child that there are are consequences for negative outcomes when he/she chooses to do wrong.

Janet

Just posted by Victor (Lazlo) at Scrux:

Not even a month ago the OM in Aruba "closed" the Natalee Holloway case.
The American student has been missing since May 2005.

Joran van der Sloot has been a prime suspect in this case together with two of his friends.

The decision to make it a sepot was followed due to a lack of new concrete evidence, according to head officer Hans Mos during a press conference.

(clip of Hans Mos) "That fact and the fact that the all three decided to take their right to remain silent during their detention that together has brought us to the conclusion that there simply was not enough juridical evidence to charge and prosecute them".
-end of clip-

Joran van der Sloot has been the prime suspect since 2005 in the Holloway case, he after all was the one that saw her last, and gave statements that were untrue. Later Joran admitted that he had lied.
In November he was arrested again. During his detention that lasted for two weeks Joran again took his right to remain silent.

Last night, Joran together with his parents Joran one more time gave an interview to Pauw and Witteman. At the table also crime reporter Peter de Vries, who has never made it a secret to doubt Joran's statements.

When the broadcasting had ended, the following happened:

-clip of Joran throwing wine in de Vries's face is shown-

De Vries: I think he proved himself a bad service,
Witteman: This incident is not going to contribute to him gaining any much trust.

-clip-
de Vries asking: "Tell me now how did you got home that night".
Joran: I was brought home by D.. Satish the brother of Deepak
"de Vries: But he denies that, he says I did not bring him home at all.
Joran: Yes
de Vries: and first you have stated that Deepak have brought you home, not Satish
Joran: Mr de Vries, I don't know if you...
de Vries: Why would they lie about that?
-end of clip-

Peter Plasman: I found the performance of the family van der Sloot really dramatic (as in not good).
Intervieuwer: Why?
Plasman: Because these people with this story can never win over the battle of the public opinion.

Joran van der Sloot yesterday had come with his parents to the talkshow P&W now that he is not going to be prosecuted about Natalee Holloway, right after the program things get out of hand.

-clip- :
Joran: If there ever will be clearity about what happened, and it turns out you are wrong, will you apologize, are you man enough to do that?
De Vries: What do you think?
Joran: No.
De Vries: No?
Joran nods his head that no he thinks no.
Anita starts to laugh real hard, audience is mumbling.
The interviewer then says: What a beautiful ending of such a ...!
Anita van der Sloot: Nice ending (laughing)
-end of clip-

Witteman: Everybody was shaking hands, any way, Jeroen and I were shaking hands with all our guests, and Joran stood up and I got the impression that Joran was going to shake hands with Peter.

Peter de Vries: After the broadcasting, my sender was taken of and I arrange my clothes, I was looking down, at that moment Joran had stood up and I myself had not seen that, and shortly thereafter I got an amount of wine in my face that he had thrown.
There was a full glass of wine on the table, and he had grabbed that and threw it in my face. And because I did not see that coming I got the wine in my eyes, and of course because there was alcohol in it, that itched.

-clip-
De Vries is standing with his hands for his eyes, his wife next to him and Jeroen Pauw says he should use some water for his eyes.
Anita with a sad voice: Why do you do that now, come on now, ohhh!
Wife of de Vries towards Anita: Now you have done such a great job raising that, yes, very well raised indeed.
-end of clip-

Witteman: After the broadcasting he said he was so agitated during the broadcasting because he had to explain why he had lied again and again, and he had then felt he could do this, now I have the chance, and then he did this.

de Vries: He did this out of a form of frustration, agitation. I have later talked with him, and he then apologized, and he then said that already during the broadcasting he had wanted to insult me, but that during the broadcasting he had been able to held back, but then then at the end, it came out of him, and before he knew/realised it himself he had thrown wine in my face.

-clip-
May 2005, the American Natalee Holloway is with her class on Aruba vacationing, after a night of going out she takes of with some guys, they end up at the beach, in the end she is together with Joran van der Sloot, but ever since there is no trace of Natalee.
Joran van der Sloot is a suspect and is interrogated over and over again, but last month the Aruban judge let go of the case.
-end of clip-

In the interview last night he was attacked because in the case he had taken his right to remain silent.

-clip-
de Vries: The fact that also now, the last time he was arrested he refused to answer any single question during all that time, I find that very strange, and I wonder if this is something his father agrees with, as being a man who attempted to become a judge himself. That your son, In such a crucial case in which a girl has went missing, in which the mother is desperate about the faith of her daughter, that you then keep your mouth shut, while the goal of the investigation is to obtain clearity.
-end of clip-

Interviewer: Why is it a good idea at times to take your right to remain silent?
Peter Plasman: Because if you know the prosecution does not have enough against me and you then remain silent, then there cannot come anything upon that, at least not from me. If justice does not have enough and you are questioned and give answers, you take the risk of making mistakes -regardless if you are innocent or guilty, also innocent people make mistakes- that can be interpreted wrongly, and look we now have contradicting statements, and additional incriminating material.

-clip-
Joran: And I have told everything, and I also feel, why would have have to give the police 20 statements, the only thing they want is to find differences in that.
-end of clip-

Interviewer: To take your right to remain silent in many cases is a normal strategy.
De Vries: Well I do not feel this a normal strategy, we are here not dealing with a career criminal of a drugs case, these usually standardly get the advise of their lawyers to take their right to remain silent.
We are here dealing with a guy who last saw a girl, so please give me one reason why you would not tell your story.

-clip-
Joran: I no longer have faith in the OM in Aruba, they are not after truthfinding in this case, they just want to hang someone. Just for their own ego's.
Witteman: Also when the person is innocent?
Joran: Yes also when the person is innocent I am convinced of that.
de Vries: I find it kind of strange you say that you have no trust in the OM, while you are the one who have continued to lie.
Joran: Yes I have lied, I admit that, but there are reasons for that, and those reasons you know also.
de Vries: I would like to know these reasons, to lie about something you did, while you have nothing to hide. Why would you have to lie then, please explain.
-end of clip-

Plasman: This could not go right. The questions of Peter de Vries could have been predicted in advance, it were very legitimate questions. Questions like, why remain silent if you have nothing to hide, you cannot explain that yourself, if you want to explain that you will have to let a professional do that.
Plus all the inside information that was given, especially by the father, I found the role of father especially saddening (as in worse of all) .Well, they just never should have done this (going on the show).

-clip-
Anita: Now I am his mother, I love him very much, I am convinced he would not harm a girl.
These initial emotions for me are also important to notice at him, because I did actually had doubts about him for a while.
I have thought, damn, could an accident have happened, could something have happened, does he not want to tell?
-end of clip-

Plasman: If you go to a television broadcasting, and you know in advance that the mother is going to say that she has doubted her son, then that in itself is a reason not to go.
Interviewer: So this is not so smart
Plasman: No no no
Plasman: Especially the father should have known what questions would come up, and how the mother would react upon the questions. And if he knows that if there is going to be a question did you ever doubt him and that she is going to answer yes, he should have decided not to go there.

-clip-
Witteman: You were a stand in judge
Paulus: Yes
Witteman: Imagine Joran had told you, dad I did something terrible, what would you have done?
Paulus: I would have gone with him to him to the OM.
Witteman: Did you had a talk about this?
Anita: Between us as parents? Yes, yes.
Witteman: And you agreed with that?
Anita: Yes I agreed with that fully.
Witteman: You would then have brought in your own son?
Anita: Yes
Joran: And I can confirm that also.
-end of clip-

Plasman: What I found dramatically to hear from the parents was that they said, if he had told them he had something to do with it, that they would have gone to the police, since that means as parents you are cutting of your role as a parent to your son, you then know going to your parents with your problems, asking advise, telling what happened means jail, the parents taking over the role of police officers, incredible for parents.

clip-
-Wine incident is shown again-

de Vries: I can imagine it in many ways and do not make a big deal out of this. I mean if this is the worse you have to meet in your career as a crime reporter, then I have no reason to complain.

Witteman: By a larger public I think he has become more solid in the chair of a supsect, but we will have to wait for the body of Natalee Holloway to know what really has happened.

http://www.novatv.nl/novaplayer/player169.html?bw=bb&player=wmp&id=hpe-1-0&x=11&y=6#

I'm with you Janet.  Decent and loving parents make that child that may have done wrong "look them in the eye" and tell them the TRUTH.  My boys KNOW that if I say "LOOK ME IN THE EYES" and tell me the truth, that I mean business.  I have yet to find that they could do that and lie to me.  If you have raised your child in the way you should have that child will know that no matter what you will always LOVE them, BUT you will expect them to pay the consequences for their choices.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mqdBSFwpyw
Can anyone read his lips after he throws the wine – I'm sure he is speaking Dutch.
What did he call Mr. Peter de Vries?

Well, a person can only go so far in blaming the parents. Sometimes, even the best parents will have children who do wrong.
...
There sure was alot of fussing when Joran came ot NY and Bo Dietl was in his face, wasn't there ? Alot of fussing about the statements made about Joran's behaviour by Beth. What has Beth said so far about the character of Joran that has not proved to be true ? The prior bad acts that were dismissed as untrue by the Sloots ?
.
Why can't these ppl just live their lies as quietly as a stone and quit the protestations already. No one is buying the product.
..

the Loser once again Lost it


enough said  :cool:

clip-
de Vries asking: "Tell me now how did you got home that night".
Joran: I was brought home by D.. Satish the brother of Deepak
"de Vries: But he denies that, he says I did not bring him home at all.
Joran: Yes
de Vries: and first you have stated that Deepak have brought you home, not Satish
Joran: Mr de Vries, I don't know if you...
de Vries: Why would they lie about that?
-end of clip-



Careful, Joran!  Almost but not quite. . . we came very close to a revealing moment there.  But then he has told so many lies, I guess he can't be expected to keep them straight.

And with the passage of time and the telling of more lies, it must become much more difficult.

I wonder how long before Joran realizes that Paulus gave him some very, very bad advice both legally and as a parent.

Hi, Robots.

 :D

hi Anna

i have said hi like 3 times and i can never find out if you you saw me saying hi

 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

im lost  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I always read your posts, Robots.  Of course I see you.

.

 :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

nice to see you  :cool: :wink:

I am a little bit amazed and pleasantly surprised at how
much media attention Joran's wine throwing incident has
attracted.  All of the major networks have reported
the story.  Nobody stops and asks: "who is Joran vander Sloot?"
I know that we, as Monkeys, are all concerned with Natalee's disappearance,
but this just proves that the story has not diminished in the least.
People everywhere are still waiting for answers in this case,
and the majority know where the answers lie. ARUBA and the SLOOTS.

Well, I agree that you teach a child that his actions have consequences and right from the start, not when he is larger than you are.  I also agree that parenting can only account for so much as it can also depend on what they have to work with from the get go.

I think sociopaths are born and not made but parents have to recognize they have one, not that much can be done about it.

Paulus running after Joran today was yet another example of enabling.  He should have seen after Joran's victim instead of rushing to his evil spawn's side.  Unless, of course, he was going out there to have a very serious talk with Joran or better yet, frail the daylights out of him for what he had just done.  I seriously doubt that was the case, however.

How long before Joran realizes what bad advice his father has been giving him, both legally and as a parent?  Joran should never have listend to Paulus with his no body no case nonsense.  Sure, he is out of jail but branded a criminal by most of the entire world is not exactly no case, IMO.

.

Yes, you are correct, Kat_Gram...

USA Today's coverage with photo of Joran in Aruba

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-01-12-vandersloot-tvappearance_N.htm?csp=34

what i find most interesting is that the GENERAL public is more concerned about joran throwing wine at someone then him telling lie after lie and changing stories
with 2 other killers to the police for month after month when it was concerning a missing girl.

it reminds me of when the general public was more outraged when a killer gave the finger to the camera and the public was outaged more about that then about the killing of the i think it was a young girl that he was convicted of

im not talking about us... im talking about the un informed public


but thats just me  :cool:

I agree Kat.  However ... it is not a matter of blaming parents.  The issue is parents defending their children when they have done wrong.

If a child has been taught by his/her parents regarding the boundaries that define right and wrong and ... then choose to do wrong nevertheless ... he/she must not be shielded from the consequences.

The prayer of parents in this situation is that their precious child will learn from taking personal responsibility for his/her actions of wrongoing and ... return to the foundation which parents have established for his/her benefit and the benefit of others.  Unfortunately ... that does not always happen.

My hubby and I were fortunate.  It did not happen overnight ... it was a gradual transformation that took place over a few years but ... our son did learn valuable lessons through consequences and ... he did return.

Janet

CBS Coverage

http://www.cbs8.com/stories/story.114534.html

Thanks Anna.

Robots....I disagree with you a little bit.  I think that most people know
that they have lied repeatedly and just see the latest incident as
confirmation of Joran's disturbed personality.  Most of the general public
that I run into think it was a big Aruban coverup and J2K are guilty
and Paulus had some hand in it all.
But that's just me.   :cool:

In the past ... Joran has been abetted by the adults in his life in wrongdoing.  He was not taught that legal boundaries were established for his benefit and the benefit of others.  On top of that ... the adults in his life have shielded him from the consequences of the negative outcome of his actions.

Considering that lessons are not being learned by Joran through consequences ... I believe that "other Natalee" are at risk and ... it is only a matter of time.

Janet

++++++++++++++

John Kelly
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 11, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times. And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.  I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

yes, you could be right :wink:

but other than a small minority most people just dont seem to care

but when they see something like this.. it does help for them to see the big picture

and that is that joran is a killer STILL on the loose

aruba oujda morocco nigeria jawharati christmas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4bwU5Pj52U

Not sure that's the same Aruba  :wink:  Notice some of his other videos appear to be in Arabic.

 :wink:
couldn't resist to comment anyway. But if this lovely clip doesn't make you want to  travel to aruba pronto nothing will.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ASNhNnCZU

Are those tourist stores or was that a swap meet?  LOL   :lol:

Klaasend wrote;

Good question.......after the poor guy panned his camera around and saw the lovely seaport, I'm suprised he got off the boat. I couldn't resist asking if Aruba tourism made this video.

Looks more like a swap meet in MO....I'll Take Maui anyday....LOL

Silly you!!! Do you mean this seaport doesn't look the same?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc769n8Zf8A

ROFLMAO - your comments are cracking me up  :lol: :lol:

Well I have to admit I did have a little valium when I flew into Maui...so I could be wrong.....LOL

WTH group CPR?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F8dWtCGBSA

If You keep posting these Aruban Whatevers....I'll need CPR! Goodnight All!

I think it is because they don't know the details, thanks to the MSM in the US.  We always get the  "Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba while on vacation....and until there is evidence, the case is closed.....blah, blah, blah.  They need to let the public know there WAS evidence, it disappeared; the FBI did help search, but they were given no information nor were they allowed to get info on their own; the statements by the suspects are easily proven to be lies and Joran is still lying in this interview he just did.  They never mention AHATA, ATA, and the Prime Minister, the Minister of Justice, the police chiefs, commissioners and police did everything they could to keep this story hidden for tourism; the judges are friends and in conflict of interest; the powers that be are financially dependent on tourism or they will lose their own interests....etc., etc., etc.  The MSM has not investigated anything, they just say the same sound bite over and over as if there was a real investigation that turned up nothing.  Look at all the different angles, information and disinformation that the Monkeys have uncovered.  NONE of it has been given to the general public.   I think the general public does care, they just do not have all the information they need.  Even without it, in their gut they know J2K are guilty, they just don't understand completely how a whole island railroaded the investigation.  The stories within the story.

yepper :cool:

I'm getting "tired head" trying to catch up! The bottom line is Joran absolutely killed his PR campaign last night. The people trying to defend him look like fools. What say you now Aruba??????????

So true Magnolia. Isn't it wonderful?

Watching the wine throwing segment again.  At the end you can see Joran hightail it out of there.  Is that Valentijn in the background?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA5_m5DS_Uw&feature=user

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/Valentijncopy.jpg)

Yep and for some of the Refugee's this was the last straw.

 :lol: LOL....

Mos blames the mainstream media for blundering the case -- yet events like this trigger MSM reporting and the next you will hear is a disinformation campaign that actually he stumbled and fell and the wine "accidentally" sprayed on the reporter and he was actually trying to help dry the reporters eyes when the wife pushed him out of the way with a rude comment to Joran's Mom-- sorta like Natalee accidentally stumbled and fell and bumped her head but Joran was trying to help her walk at the HI dropp off before those black security guards disappeared her.....

The difference?  This was actually caught on tape and now the whole world can see it....

incredible...

Makes you wonder about his "rage" when Nat must have rebuffed his advances... and he sure had more to drin that a little wine that night, right?

http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article1963641.ece?pageNumber=12#reactie

Zou joran ook zijn geduld zijn verloren met Natalee.Want gisteren kregen we even de andere kant te zien van Joran Van der Sloot.

jansen - nederland - 12/01/08 - 21:32:26

Joran will be also are tolerated to have lost with Natalee. because yesterday we got just as the other side to see of Joran of of the ditch.

Yes...don't you just know that Oduber would like to get his hands
on Joran right about now. 

lets review and feel free to add to the list

1. kills dogs

2. threatens to kill deepak and satish

3. threatens and beats up his brother

4. craps on his friends

5. throws people off bridges

6. steals from his own family

7. throws alcohol in people's faces


yea, he is delicious alright


way to go anita and paulus ,,,when is your next interview

 :cool:

Joran angry!  Again.

 :cool:

That's what he had on his MySpace at one time.

Yep!! I'm 200% behind The Persistence crew -- but the psychics' say Natalee wll not be found until February. Hell -- I don't know or care as long as she is brought home. All I know is that God will bring us answers.  I'm not an overly religous person -- but somehow I have had an instict that things will work out. I don't get these "instincts" often (in fact I don't think ever before.)  This case WILL have closure. I feel it.

8. underage drinking and gambling

 :lol: , this was supposed to be their "last" interview, what a way to have their final say in the matter  :bom:

9. just a real all around ass  :cool: :lol:

   

Wow. There's so much to be gleened from that interview. It tells me that Joran was never really pushed in interrogations. He has no pat answers even now as to why he lied. Anita, his own Mother had doubts about what he did. Who knows him better than his mother? If she could fathom him guilty, who are we to question his capability for participation in a crime? Anita does react to the wine throwing, and she directs it as an admonishment at Joran. It's weak and sad, and probably typical of the lack of grit her parenting skills have, but her comments aren't in the nature of, "Oh, Goody, DeVries got what was coming to him." She does grasp that Joran has done something wrong and she does direct her comments at him. She may be thinking it hurts the family's position and is not concerned at all for DeVries, but she does grasp Joran has done something wrong. Flame me if you want, but I think, at that moment, that Anita's reaction was recognition of both the harm done to Joran's image and to the action DeVries was victim of.

Joran basically says that he remained silent due to a well thought out strategy to assure his release. It's a legal strategy with total disregard to what happened to Natalee, but DeVries won't let his answers go without holding Joran's answers up to a moral standard. Joran consistantly falls short of the mark on those basis and his buttons are pushed over and over. Moral standards are a real pesky thing to Joran, and he certainly did not expect anyone to assert them on Natalee's behalf! After all, he knows the line that suggest they should be extended to himself as victim of ALE and the Holloways........Taco refined that argument and Greta bought it hook, line, and sinker, and it served him extremely well. Greta announced to the world that she believed him, and it worked like a charm in a public forum there!

This is a picture of a sociopath. This is a picture of Natalee Holloway's killer.

sorry Robots and Bleachedblack, I think I goofed on that last response, I was trying to fix my bomb.. :sad:  I'm tired and should probably call it a night... :2doh:

That's what I thought as well, because she looks at Joran as if to reprimand him, not about what he has done to DeVries, as she does not lean into Mr. DeVries, but is "shaking or fanning" the wine from her clothing while reprimanding Joran about the consequences of stains that will never come out of polyester, the stains in the Honda's carpet that had to be removed.  Red wine and red blood.  There are connections, they are red, they are hard to remove and now he has ruined her nice 100% polyester blouse.

I agree CBB, hopefully this opened her eyes somewhat to the fact that she can stand up for him against almost everyone except his own worst enemy, HIMSELF.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

what does he tell greta about how he got home that night ?

 :cool:

I don't want to be argumentative, and won't mention it again, but if you look at 36 - 38 seconds into this, you'll see Paulus and Anita both turned toward Joran reacting to what he did. Paulus is indeed smiling as the incident occurs, but was smiling prior to the thrown wine and it seems to me he just had not had time to react physically with his facial expression as he turned to DeVries. They were all shaking hands at the end and ended the interview at least outwardly, amiably. Anita too, was politely smiling and extended her hand to a staff member. Joran's thermometer was about to explode, but I do not think his parents anticipated or applauded what he did. Paulus may very well have not been happy for reasons that had nothing to do with common decency and only percieved how this would impact Joran and the family, but again, I don't think they were pleased. JMHO.

Isn't the loose translation of Aruba "Arab?"

Well said, texasmom!

He told her Satish picked him up because Deepak was on the computer

I was going to add to my post but got kicked out.  I think Oujda is Moroccon area. 

There are monkeys here with Valentine Avatars in the lounge. The link's in my signature line.

Joran has done more for unveling the truth in that one gesture than all of ALE has done in two and a half years!

I don't remember why he told her he lied about that. Do you, Klaas?

GOODNIGHT ALL!


(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/JoranSlapNew.gif)

Tyler, how could you even suggest she would be so petty as to worry about her blouse?  I think she was afraid he wrecked one of her wonderbras underneath the blouse.   :P

Interviewer:  What was the... there was a discrepancy at some point - - I mean, there've been a lot of reports. It's sort of hard to figure out what is and what isn't... that at one point, you said Deepak gave you a ride home. And it changed to Satish. Can you explain that? Or is there not a discrepancy? 

Joran van der Sloot:  Well, there is a discrepancy there, and I did at one point say that Deepak took me home. But that was at the more point from (unintelligible) we'd always said when we were at our house talking that we'd keep... that we'd keep Satish's little brother out it as much as possible when we'd actually made up the story to say that we dropped her off at the Holiday Inn. 

Interviewer:  Why did you want to keep Satish out of it? 

Joran van der Sloot:  I didn't want to. That's what Deepak wanted. He said, yes, you know, whatever, you keep... you know, We'll keep my little brother out of it, and that... yes. That's what we agreed on.

Thanks again for the avatar CBB, I love it, and it is just the right fit and color.

No wonder they told him to keep his mouth shut in jail, his size fourteens are not big enough to plug up that leak.

Thanks Klaas. I believe in one of the statements, Joran or Deepak said they were afraid that Satish couldn't keep the story straight. I just didn't remember what he told Greta about the lie.

OK, before I really call it a night I'd like to point something out.  Deepak's little brother Satish is OLDER than Joran.  Why all the false protection for Satish?

You're most welcome, Bearly!

Joran's mouth, in interviews and his book have been more damaging than anything ALE has uncovered or exposed. I honestly believe his statements alone are convincing enough to prosecute, but that's JMO.

I agree CBB.  They did what they could to provide damage control and then Joran turns around and causes more damage.

GOOD QUESTION!!!!! Is he s-l-o-w?

Or is he the one most likely to crack?

Or had he committed a crime, like hit and run, that he had been hiding from?

When I look at the wine throwing incident, I wonder what he was thinking.  It's not a knee-jerk reaction.  A knee-jerk reaction would be if he threw the wine at him when something was said to him that he felt was derogatory.  No one was even provoking him when he threw that wine.  It was premeditated,  Look at his face, he looks like he was thinking, "what can I do to hurt that guy?"  He takes his time with this, he does not do it immediately.

Shower time for me! If I don't get back, have a great night, monkeys!

Or is Joran incapable of telling the truth?  After all he says he was not seeing anyone for lying, it was for family problems.  His mom then says he was seeing her NOT ONLY for lying.  Two different stories--and they were right there in the same room.

Nite CBB, I have plenty of catching up to do.  I will not be ignoring anyone, only reading.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Before I go, this is a link to the wine throw with English subtitles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpPYqk_klXc&NR=1

I never could get the Nova link to give me anything but audio, so if this is the same thing, I apologize for posting it again!

 :smt045  that's what I've thought all along....

goodnight everyone!

MSNBC Analyst, Clint Van Zandt, Former FBI Profiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmnmnVIzmBc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmnmnVIzmBc&feature=related)

"But when someone obstensively gets away with murder, whoever that is, there's a tendency to feel you can do just about anything you want to...to include throwing wine in somebody's face.

...If somebody lies about the little things, they lie about the big things, I wonder what big thing he might be lying about?"

Subtitle:  Talk Show Tantrum  Joran Van Der Sloot Goes Ballistic on Dutch TV Show

Joran is indeed being punished for his acts, even while being free from a cell. His life is ever so slowly disintegrating right in front of Anita's eyes, as is the life of her family and each family member's individual life. Individually, and collectively.

Anita's soul is empty and weary from trying to cheat God so there is nothing available for her other children to help nurture their lives, there is nothing to bring color into the relationship of Anita and Paulus, joy into their home, hope for their future. Punishment is descending upon them and into them coloring their world a bleak gray. Without confession, and punishment by society, society will forever feel that Joran's debt is still current and owed, so interest will accrue, and thus no redemption and no ending date to their pain will be set. Joran's ability to be rehabilitated is being diminished as he ages and hardens due to the rejection he feels from all. Everybody has an innate need to be wanted and loved.

Deservedly, yes, but the pain and harm could be greatly diminished, hope and color could be restored to her other children's lives, rehabilitation could begin while there is a chance for Joran, and a future reestablished for Anita's family, if Anita will turn to God to find the strength and faith to do the right thing.

Anita, I don't know how you can bear to sit back and watch your family being destroyed one day at a time, realize that you and you alone control whether this process continues or not, and then decide to do nothing. Ignorant of the Lord and the Lord's ways, weak, lost soul, foolish, of little faith, impotent mother, and not caring all come to mind.

Praise the Lord that Beth has faith, Beth's Mom has faith, and they will free themselves and their family from there pain without your help. If you need proof, just look at Beth. Based upon your approach her loss has been immense compared to yours, yet she is healing, she has hope, her family has a future even though her daughter, Matt's sister, Ann's granddaughter has been taken away permanently from them in this life.

Your worst prospect is to temporarily have restricted access to your son, not nearly so severe, yet the pain you are going to inflict on your family to avoid this temporary restriction will inflict a far greater toll on you and your family than Beth's loss, and for no reason other than your ignorance of the Lord and selfishness. Your legacy to your family for generations to come. And it is apparent that you would rather satisfy your own selfish urges to have unrestricted access to Joran than to get Joran the help he needs and thus provide for him to have a future.

Your family is dependent on you and you alone to save them from this dark path they are traveling and that you have chosen for them.

FOX & FRIENDS

JORAN WINER

http://youtube.com/watch?v=S_xxB8XsyIM

great point sirensong!!! I never thought of that but you are so correct!!
Not a reaction at all, it was an action. 

Great post PI. very profound, very true.

man klaas, you have such an eye!!! Good catch!!
CBB...you could be correct...and I also think the laughs could be a reaction to a stressful situation. I am one of those people who tends to laugh when people fall or stumble...l know, I know...I am warped!! lol...I know it's not funny, it's just my reaction to the stress. AND YES I HELP THEM UP AFTER!!!! lol

He's the weak link and/or one of the k2 brother's had to stay out of jail to help Momma?

oops Bearly, this was your post...so sorry!! great post!!!

roflmao!!! good capture Klaas!!!!! coffee all over the screen now!!!

Thanks ld (it was our post). 

I wouldn't advise anyone to sign up for the "Aruban 2-Step Anger Management Program."

Yep, I told you she was worried about her wonderbra.  I wonder what happens to it when exposed to red wine?

Well, I suppose Jerry Springer will want to sign him up now.  :roll:

I think the wine toss was planned by Joran, but only in the last few minutes. His stress level had been building during the discussion - for sure - but the show was headed for a restrained ending. Joran felt he needed to even the score by putting DeVries on the spot with his what-if-i-am-innocent question. DeVries did not take that question seriously and brushed it off. The moderator makes a quip and everybody laughs - show over. IMO the laughter appeared to be a reaction to the end of the tension, end of the show. Everyone is relieved, starts relaxing and the participants begin to mix. But Joran is not everyone, misinterprets the social reality, stiffens and plans. Like an infant throwing a bottle, Joran reaches for whatever is closest and throws it. He HAD to do it. He HAD to act to relieve his tension. I don't see him changing anytime soon.

MF Posts at RU

From DIARIO (14-01-08)

After this was already published last week, I guess DIARIO could not hide any longer from his readers:

Aruba Airport Authority (AAA) is reporting record results for 2007.
The last quarter compared to 2006 saw an increase of 19.9% in passenger traffic and 26% airtraffic.

The passenger traffic grew in October with 16.4%, in November with 18.3% and in December with 24.6% compared to 2006.

Airtraffic grew with 15% in Oktober, 18.4% in November and 36.5% in December 2007.

For 2007, AAA is reporting a total increase of 11.7% in passengers and a total of 8.1% in airtraffic.

Individually the market increased during the last quarter with the following percentage:

USA: 8.5%
Netherlands Antilles: 19.7%
Europe: 21.7%


And regarding the wine throwing international breaking news:

DIARIO with exclusive interview with Peter de Vries

Joran's action says a lot

After the incident, in which Joran van der Sloot threw a glass of red wine into the face of Peter R. de Vries in the "Pauw en Witteman" program, DIARIO decided to contact de Vies through his cellphone.

De Vries told DIARIO, that everybody could see how he was asking hard questions on the program towards Joran, but nobody expected that something like that would happened, thus that Joran threw wine into his face.

He said that something like that was not that big of a deal, but the fact that Joran could have done something like that, says a lot about his character.

In the past, there has been said that Joran had problem with anger management, and after his act on the program, it can be confirmed that this is the case.

Concerning the picture of Joran with Natalee at Natalee's house, he explained that this was given to him by a person that knew that Joran paid for it to be made. De Vries said that still he does not knwo why Joran made the picture but he considers it a bad joke, since Joran himself said that it was a joke.

Now we know why his Mom's gut reaction was that he had done something to Natalee.

No doubt Bearly. This latest made me go back and re-read the earliest Anita interviews. 2 different times she says *he is not evil*. As if any act just short of evil is still in play.

Pauw: Did you never say… Or have you never spoken about burying Natalee Holloway?
Joran: No I have never discussed that with the pollice.

He does not say he didn't talk about it, only that he didn't tell the police.

Pauw: Well these are maybe not the most subtle moments in this conversation but Joran, you visited a psychiatrist because you were lying all the time.
Joran: No… That was not the reason why I visited the psychiatrist. [/[/glow]glow] I’ve been two times to a childrens psychiatrist but that was because we had some things going on within our family...
Anita: I can explain that as well… So you can hear it from my own mouth… Paul was in Holland for the Judges-training and I had to deal with three children in my own… And Joran as many seventeen year olds… I myself work with teens… And uh… he was not the easiest one. Besides that we had problems with… I had some problems with him… That he came home way to late… Uhm… I’m rather strict… Maybe even sometimes I was a little to strict… And at a certain point after talking about it with a friend of mine, maybe it’s good when we have some consults with a youth-psychiatrist. Because I just want that he has a goal in life… that he thinks well what he wants with his life and all this ‘going out’ I just think bad about that. And at that time he started playing poker in the casino and I don’t want my son being in the casino! So I contacted I youth-psychiatrist… He wasn’t 18 yet, he still was seventeen… He went there twice, that’s correct and we had one conlusive-conversation after that. And that was it… So [b]it was really not just about lying[/b]…
[/color]

So he was currently seeing a shrink when this happened with Natalee since he was then 17

I love this post from janee @ RU:

Oh, this is rich! LOL

Personally, I find it hysterical that Joran made a jackass out of his mother, Anita, only moments after she thought she managed to sell Joran as incapable of causing anyone harm.

If Aruba would like to increase its tourist market share, the powers that be should put the entire VDS clan in cages and sell tickets billing the VDS freak show.

Good morning...catching up..

This video has been removed... :o

Pauw: And so you decide the three of you to make up one story and this is how we’re going to tell it.
Peter: You just can tell the truth can you, when nothing happened? There’s no reason to lie is there?
Joran: Yes, I don’t think the truth sounds that good if you have to say you left a girl at the beach.
Peter: So you think a lie sounds better than the truth?
Joran: Well I didn’t know how serious this all was. I didn’t know there was a serious problem....
Joran: Mister De Vries… I don’t know if you ever…
Peter: Why should they lie?
Witt.: Give him a change to answer this….
Joran: …if you ever were interrogated by the police…. in a murder case…Peter: (Unintelligible. Something like ‘Yes I was’…)
Joran: In a murder-case?!

First he says he didn't know how serious it was and then he says he had to lie because he was nervous being interrogated in a murder-case.  How many murder cases are there that aren't serious?

http://www.amigoe.com/english/ (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)   01/12/2008

Quarterly figures AAA to record height 

ORANJESTAD -- Aruba Airport Authority (AAA) has closed the last quarter of 2007 with the highest turnover in the past seven years.  Compared to the 4th quarter of 2006, the number of passengers grew with 19.9 percent and the number of airplane movements with 26 percent. 

The number of passengers that generated turnover in October, November, and December was 16.4 (739.806 passengers), 18.3 (815.958) , and 24.6 percent (902.874) higher than same months in 2006, which is 11.7 percent higher than in the 4th quarter of 2006. 

The airplane movement in the last three months of 2007 grew with 15, 18.4, and 36.5 percent compared to same months in 2006.  The growth is attributed to a big increase of the number of tourists from South-America (77 percent).  The growth was even 109.7 percent in December of 2007; especially from Venezuela.  The number of tourists from North-America, the Neth.Antilles, and Europe grew with 8.5, 19.7, and 21.7 percent.   

“Our efforts and dedication of the entire team have lead to these fantastic quarterly figures”, said a proud Peter Steinmetz, director van AAA, who was recently elected as ‘man of the year’ by the daily Bon Dia. 

He said that he looks forward to 2008 and anticipates that this year is going to be at least as successful.  “We have confidence that 2008 is going to be a strong year for Aruba.”   

I thought he was finished with the Quickie Aruban 2-Step Anger Management Program by then.  It must be a Drive-thru.  :roll:

So, Joran leaves the country and travel there increases...hmmm... :idea:

These two bolded sentences tell alot....OUT OF HIS OWN MOUTH - Before I realized what I was doing!!!!  I am sure that this was mild - compared to his reaction of Natalee saying NO!  What does this say?  Just as we have said all along - Joran has a bad temper, at he has no control over what he does when his temper flairs.  He said it himself....AND - it is caught on camera!

Then, Anita- "I Had My Doubts".....Come on...keep on talking.

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can see the reasoning now...The devil made me do it...Joran Vin Der Sloot

It is up at 24ora w/ comments
http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3475/6/#jc_allComments

Several articles about Joran's TV appearance/tantrum in today's Diario.

http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=30 (http://news.diario-aruba.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=30)   01/14/2008

Link is to Local section of Diario.



Online Pap translation:

joran van der sloot owing to lose cabez,
after of declaration of policy dutch

monday, 14 january 2008

oranjestad(aan): during the declaration of policy dutch much conoci, “pauw provided that witteman”, the conocido peter r. de vries, of the declaration of policy “misdaad verslaggever”, owing to show of was much convenci cu joran van der sloot have to know more of desaparicion of natalee holloway.

past owing to tell cu joran till still have to worde considera sospechoso principal in the caso of desaparicion of the young mericano.

this specialmente mirando the mature cu so much trip joran owing to lie, during his declaracionnan.
joran at dado instant owing to ask about peter de vries, if in future the will ask his disculpa, if leave at cla cu the is inocente. de vries not owing to conteste.

at end of the declaration of policy, joran owing to ask about de vries same question again y de vries owing to tell cu leave at cla cu the is inocente, the will ask disculpa.

joran the hour ey owing to tell de vries, cu the do not achieve cu de vries is sufficient man, for ask disculpa.
joran eynan owing to cuminza show end the angry cu the was have in direccion of de vries.

after of the declaration of policy, diripiente joran owing to coi one glass of wine cora y owing to throw this in cara of de vries. at once joran y his father owing to leave for of the studio.

mother anita still owing to ask disculpa for thing his child owing to haci.

after various trip joran self owing to ofrece his disculpa y de vries owing to acepta this.
after of the declaration of policy de vries owing to tell if cu joran cu the mature of throw the wine in his cara, owing to haci more damage at his self.

according de vries, parents of joran is try haci because; if fuera the is one boy much good educa, but cu the accion here, joran owing to demostra cu the have problem for controla his emocionnan y that know if algo so will can owing to happen hour cue was cu natalee.

* * *
This one is about the fake Joran-Natalee "portrait" ...


Online Pap translation:

joran owing to let work potret of dje together cu natalee, because; joke

monday, 14 january 2008

oranjestad(aan): saturday night at canal 11 of cabel, esta bvn, owing to happen the declaration of policy “pauw provided that witteman”, on cual joran van der sloot owing to aparece together cu his mother anita y his father paul.

during the declaration of policy several question owing to worde haci in they direccion of part of jeroen pauw y paul witteman, but also of part of peter r. de vries, of the declaration of policy “misdaad verslaggever”.

de vries was much aggressive contra joran, indicando cu the is believe cu joran is the sospechoso principal till still in the caso here.

at dado instant for surprise of everybody, de vries owing to saca one potret for of his saco, on cual can see natalee together cu joran, at home of natalee at alabama.

was obvio if cu was one potret work, because never joran owing to bay cas of natalee.
joran owing to tell cu one amigo of dje owing to work the potret y owing to mande pe.

de vries owing to tell cu joran owing to pay a for work the potret here. according joran, past owing to immidiately let work the potret here because; one joke.

presentadornan of the declaration of policy the hour ey owing to puntre con the can owing to haci one joke, in one caso so earnest of desaparicion of one child muher.

during all the declaration of policy mother y father of joran owing to try draw they child because; one child good cria, while cu de vries owing to follow lanza remarkenan of doubt cu joran will not know nothing of the desaparicion.

de vries owing to follow stop upstairs, cu the mature cu joran owing to lie so much trip, is show cu the have to can know algo more.

* * *

Diario interviewed de Vries via cell phone after the wine-throwing incident.


Online Pap translation:

daily paper cu interview exclusivo cu peter de vries: the accion of joran is tell much

monday, 14 january 2008

oranjestad(aan): after of the incidente cu owing to sosode in tv studio at the netherlands, where cu joran van der sloot owing to calculate hand y throw one glass of wine cora in cara of peter r. de vries, on the declaration of policy dutch conoci “pauw provided that witteman”, daily paper owing to dicidi of contact de vries, y owing to achieve contacto cune atravez of his celular.

de vries owing to tell daily paper, cu everybody can owing to see in the declaration of policy con the was haci questions strong in direccion of joran, but the not owing to wait for cu algo so owing to sosode, then cu joran will throw wine in his cara. past owing to tell cu pe algo so do not nothing important, but the mature cu joran can owing to haci algo so, is tell much of his caracter.

in pasado owing to worde tell cu joran was have problem cu “anger management” y his actuacion after die declaration of policy, can confirma cu of berdad this is the caso.

for thing is the potret of joran y natalee at home of natalee at alabama, de vries owing to splica cu past owing to haye for of one person, that was know cu joran owing to pay person for work the potret.

de vries owing to tell cu till still the not know exactly of con joran owing to let work the potret, but the is achieve cu is one bad joke, mirando cu joran self owing to tell cu was for one joke the potret owing to worde work.

all the time daily paper did take notice is cuanto dutch owing to reacciona sorprendi on the actitud of joran. is seems cu opinion publico of hulandesnan was completamente anti-joran. they're see cu now of berdad joran have problem for domina his self y his angry. the dudanan owing to cuminza crece more close hulandesnan.

even websitenan mericano did take notice of thing owing to happen at the netherlands cu joran, y they also is cuminza show once more on the problem of domina his self.

* * *


Online Pap translation:

anita van der sloot at comienzo owing to believe cu joran had algo of haber cu thing owing to happen cu natalee

monday, 14 january 2008

oranjestad(aan): recientemente joran van der sloot together cu his mother y father paulus, owing to present in one declaration of policy conoci at the netherlands esta “pauw provided that witteman”.durante the declaration of policy various question owing to worde haci in direccon of joran y his father, relaciona cu the caso of desaparicion of natalee holloway.

peter r. de vries of the declaration of policy “peter r. de vries misdaad versalggever”, also was present in the declaration of policy y was haci several question in direccion of joran, at one as much strong.

de vries owing to tell also cu the is achieve cu joran have to know more of the caso y cu the is stay sospechoso principal.
according de vries, is incomprendibel, cu one person is stay keto, in one caso so earnest.

past owing to referi at the mature cu ultimo trip cu joran together cu the rumannan kalpoe owing to worde deteni at november, the also owing to dicidi of not declara nothing.

paul van der sloot during the declaration of policy owing to admiti cu past owing to tell joran for her not declara nothing.
according paul, his child owing to declara all cos end y not was have nothing of earn, if the haci more declaracionnan.

mother of joran, esta anita van der sloot owing to talk much also during the declaration of policy, cu owing to worde happen at canal 11 esta bvn.

past owing to tell cu is lamentable cu casi none investigacion did take lugar in direccion of family y amigonan of natalee.

madam van der sloot owing to tell if cu at comienzo of the caso past owing to believe cu quizas one accidente owing to sosode cu natalee y cu joran will can was have algo of haber cu this.

both parent of joran owing to tell cu if joran owing to indica cu the was have algo of haber cu desaparicion of the young mericano, they owing to bay husticia of trip.

the mother owing to follow tell also cu the is wait for cu still investigacion follow y specialmente in direccion of merca. past owing to tell also cu the is desea for come one investigacion, on the investigacion cu did take lugar.

during the declaration of policy dutch, presentadornan of the declaration of policy owing to ask about joran y his father, if they're believe cu the child muher is bibo or dead.

paulus owing to tell cu the is believe much cu the child muher is bibo.

joran owing to tell cu the have doubt, but past owing to tell cu if the child muher is bibo, they have the wanta contra his boluntad, because if the self is stay scondi, the have to is much bad person, kedando scondi, sabiendo con big the damage is cu the is causando.

* * *

well Natalee and the 2 visits occurred in the same year, so were they finished or did this interrupt them? when did he turn 18?

love some of the comments  :lol:
Aruba Riba says:
Wel wel, Joran a play tough guy with the wrong guy. *(the rest I can't tell what it says)

butterfly says:
aruba on i am comparti do you opinion y besides my wanted agrega cu i am hanja thing mnr. de vries owing to tell is berdad...joran probably is one sicopata ( one person cu is kill person y is stay cu blood frieuw )....paso his comportashon in the declaration of policy not was cuadra cu a cu ordinarily they will owing to persiguie without base, do not simplemente what the la tell owing to wing my acuity but his comportashon ( body lenguage ) owing to tell much.

Arubanita says:
wel, wel, esta good educa cu the child here is?? is of cual goeie opvoeding the mother is talk of dje? wrong and strong come across

Catrien Goins said:
esta fresco y grocero do you looking at the self is cobando his buraco what could you think of a so without respet y is bay television neither can less his petchi bad as y now is throw bina in cara of the journalist the self is dana for his self y is dana name of aruba foei joran come across *(?????)

more at the link...

August 06, 2005 he turned 18

And this is the boy who Aruban's tough professional police and prosecutors claimed was too tough for them to break, this boy in the video.

                                          US Tourists-
And it is these people who are supposed to keep you safe from the drug lords who live 18 miles across relatively shallow waters and from the airport statistics are the primary visitors to Aruba. All I have to say is enjoy your family vacation, hopefully your own children will hook up with the children of a drug lord while there, or you may even hit the jackpot and your daughter might catch the fancy of a drug lord themselves. I also here there are movie producers there, and your daughter or son might even be discovered by Mr. Pink or Bangbus.com productions. There is certainly a lot of potential there.

You know, you could even hit it bigger, your children might meet what is obviously the first family of Aruba, the Van Der Sloot and their boys, or the edgy Kalpoe brother, shak of shit and shit face. I understand that they only act like Urine's or is it Piss Ant's slaves and that they get mad and hit you if you asked them if they are. Oh yea, and they bottom for him, if you know what I mean, and that explains why they are irritable and walk funny and their breath is so bad.

One word of caution though, please tell your daughters if you let them hang out with him that no matter what he asks them to do, instruct them to do without hesitation because he has an anger management problem and girls last seen with him seem to disappear.

I guess it is imposible to tell if he was being treated or not without looking at his records. I wonder did the prosecutor get his records?

I would assume now for sure that he broke in prison and confessed. I wonder if anyone  according to Aruban law would have been present when his parents were brought in to comfort him after he broke and would have heard the conversation?

my my temper temper. It sure looks like Joran is not held accountable for any of his actions....past or present. His parents look like his "bitches" and are helpless to control him. Its great the world got to see this display of his true nature. what a beast! IMHO
-IDFT

Hey Klaas!
To me it looks like Bendix! Also, too thin for a people of the ditch

In (one of) my opinion(s) sk was on computer as dk, providing a cover/alibi for dk, but leaving sk with no cover/alibi.

This photo of Valentijn is from 4/7/07  - he was pretty tall and skinny then:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ValCnC040707-1-1.jpg)

I think he is his brother based upon that photo. He looks like a really nice kid, and I think we should always assume that until proven otherwise. I hate that he is having to grow up in this environment and hope he doesn't become a part of this story.

l


I am so sorry Idstlou, I keep messing up the quotes this way :2redman:  Yours was a good post, and I didn't mean to make it  look like mine. 

The quote in red in from IDSTLOU!!!

Isn't there another kid standing by him?

However, I notice RU is attacking Matt, who is just as innocent as Joran's brother, especially the really hateful oriental sounding poster, because Matt is appearing with his Mom. So I guess I need to let RU set the parameters.

In the TV studio photo, I believe that's an adult standing next to what looks like Valentijn.  Remember Joran and Valentijn are pretty tall.

Dayhiker ... you got it right!

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++++


Paulus van der Sloot
WITTEMAN SHOW
January 12, 2008

Paulus: Well look uhhhh… Mister De Vries can’t hear that good… If he would have listened carefully he would have heard that Joran said that he didn’t have any confidence in the OM (public pros.)! That’s what Joran has said. Joran didn’t talk about the judicial authorities. What you see now.., what has happened is that luckely we have judicial authorities… And we sit here again! So in the end it’s because of the judicial authorities that all has ended well.


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005

GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

I think it looks like Joran's Holland 'buddy'>>>>

the guy in the middle

I also think that is Val...the 'stance' is very familiar.

ALL IS NOT ROSY FOR ARUBA. ATA HAS NOT REPORTED TOURIST ARRIVALS AND NIGHTS SPENT FOR 7 MONTHS, SINCE JULY OF 2007. CRUISE PASSENGER ARRIVALS CONTINUE TO BE IN STEEP DECLINE. THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX CONTINUES TO RISE OUT THE ROOF. THE AVERAGE ARUBAN IS PAYING THE PRICE FOR THE GOVERNMENT'S CORRUPTION.


Summary bulletin of the Central Bank of Aruba for November 2007

January 11, 2008

The Aruba Tourism Authority has not yet published the data on tourist arrivals and nights spent on the island for August up to and including November 2007. Also, data on the average occupancy rate of hotels for November 2007 have not been published by the Central Bureau of Statistics. Cruise Tourism Authority data indicate that both the number of cruise passengers and ship calls declined by, respectively, 10.4 percent and 22.2 percent in November 2007, compared to the corresponding month of 2006.

In November 2007, the consumer price index went up by 8.6 percent compared to the corresponding month in 2006, reflecting largely increases in prices for water and electricity of 25.2 percent and 22.4 percent, respectively. Moreover, prices of food products and gasoline rose by 10.1 percent and 13.5 percent, respectively. The annual average inflation rate accelerated to 5.4 percent, up from 3.7 percent in November 2006. The inflation differential with Aruba’s major trading partner, the United States, widened to 2.6 percentage points, up from 0.4 percentage point in November 2006.


From October 2007

The Aruba Tourism Authority has not yet published the data on tourist arrivals and nights spent on the island for August, September and October 2007. Data on the average occupancy rate of hotels for October 2007 show an increase of 2.4 percentage points to 75.9 percent compared to October 2006. Cruise Tourism Authority data indicate that both the number of cruise passengers and ship calls contracted by, respectively, 44.4 percent and 45.2 percent in October 2007, compared to the corresponding month of 2006. In October 2007, the consumer price index increased by 7.3 percent.

Good catch NUT - could be:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/ShowValandwho.jpg)

I flipped this photo around so Val is standing the same way in the vid. still.
Val has a big nose. I think it is him.

No surprise really that Valentijn and Joran's NL buddy would be in the studio.

Klaas, Still looks like Bendix to me. It's that hair cut and nose. :D


CBB a belated THANK YOU for my Vtine avatar!!!!

PI ...  thank you.

My pray is that Anita somehow reads your heartfelt words.  Maybe ... just maybe ... she will comprehend that ... in time ... through truth ... through truth that can pierce the darkness ... lives ... relationships ... can be restored.

Janet

I was just thinking that the Sloots must be on an extended Christmas holiday...would think that Anita and the boys would be back to school....maybe they all escorted Joran back to his 'college'...and his adoring neighbors near his apartment.  :roll:

Hey 2NJ,
You just reminded me of the reports from the neighbors unfortunate to live near jurin. They said jurin threw garden waste (manure) on a neighbor.

Somebody help me figure this out.........

The English subtitled video I saw last night is listed on this page:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Joran+vandersloot+wine&search=Search

I can't get it to pull up. Somebody else try, please?

Didn't we hear he may have changed schools?? Or did I dream that, lol.
Perhaps if he did then they went to get him settled into his new school and find an apartment w/ new neighbors just like him so they won't worry  :cool:
Amsterdam, I hear.

 :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :salut: :salut: :salut: :smt041  :smt041 :smt041 :smt038 :smt038 :smt045 :smt045 :smt045 :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy:

[
[/quote]

Wow. There's so much to be gleened from that interview. It tells me that Joran was never really pushed in interrogations. He has no pat answers even now as to why he lied. Anita, his own Mother had doubts about what he did. Who knows him better than his mother? If she could fathom him guilty, who are we to question his capability for participation in a crime? Anita does react to the wine throwing, and she directs it as an admonishment at Joran. It's weak and sad, and probably typical of the lack of grit her parenting skills have, but her comments aren't in the nature of, "Oh, Goody, DeVries got what was coming to him." She does grasp that Joran has done something wrong and she does direct her comments at him. She may be thinking it hurts the family's position and is not concerned at all for DeVries, but she does grasp Joran has done something wrong. Flame me if you want, but I think, at that moment, that Anita's reaction was recognition of both the harm done to Joran's image and to the action DeVries was victim of.

Joran basically says that he remained silent due to a well thought out strategy to assure his release. It's a legal strategy with total disregard to what happened to Natalee, but DeVries won't let his answers go without holding Joran's answers up to a moral standard. Joran consistantly falls short of the mark on those basis and his buttons are pushed over and over. Moral standards are a real pesky thing to Joran, and he certainly did not expect anyone to assert them on Natalee's behalf! After all, he knows the line that suggest they should be extended to himself as victim of ALE and the Holloways........Taco refined that argument and Greta bought it hook, line, and sinker, and it served him extremely well. Greta announced to the world that she believed him, and it worked like a charm in a public forum there!

This is a picture of a sociopath. This is a picture of Natalee Holloway's killer.
[/quote]

 :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :salut: :salut: :salut: :smt041  :smt041 :smt041 :smt038 :smt038 :smt045 :smt045 :smt045 :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy:
[/quote]
well, memphis, we'll get broiled together like a shiskabob if there's any flaming going happen, because i agree with you l00%.  i really think most monkeys here will agree with you too.
dennisintn

I posted earlier this morning that it was no longer there...I got a message that it was removed by the owner or producer...I forget the term they used. 

There's a message at the top:

This video has been removed by the user.

As of 1:21 EST, this clip has been viewed on You Tube 282,425. times. 

By the end of the day, everyone and their brother will have observed that the delicious sporter has no manners and a bad temper.   

You may be correct...preferably neighbors who can dodge things being thrown at them.

Jorans younger brother is a lot nicer looking than Joran for sure

Thanks, Klaas and 2nj! I hate it because it was really interesting to watch Joran's facial expressions and be able to know exactly what he was saying at the same time. It showed his question to DeVries about apologizing if he were exhonerated, and the laugh. Joran was furious, and DeVries was really intent. You could hear Anita saying, OH.......NO.........NO at Joran and you saw exactly what DeVries wife was saying to Anita in real time. Hopefully, somebody will re post it.

Thanks...that may not be Val, but there is no denying that other guy is Jorans Bud.

sounds like the user was threatened by a lawyer to me

He's a "media director" according to his profile on this page:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=tomroes

Should have added that he's from the Netherlands.

I truly hope so. Joran is sick, but not terminal if she wil get him help. Her younger children still have their entire lives in front of them and they deserve a chance to floursih, be happy, and have parents emotionally available to them. Its not fair for all of them to suffer because of Joran.

I think Val is a handome young man and I wish him the best. He is innocent in this mess and he is suffering a loss just as Matt is.

Hey Cute CBB!
When I click on that link it keeps showing the Fox clip of the clip.

Jenna's on the bottle again. (http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/20.gif)
From RU:
jenna wrote:
Natalee went missing one week before the OAS vote that would determine whether the US invaded Bolivia. Aruba was an extremely important vote because the FOL would be used for military operations.

Everything else in this case is Bullshit.

Posted at RU:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/WWkmein.jpg)

i can't agree with this at all.  matt has lost forever a wonderful sister who would have always been there for him.  i'll leave the rest of it alone.
dennisintn

So is Joran dressing like one of his heroes these days?  Che or Castro?

mostly what i see is jvds' frustration because devries wouldn't take his lies as gospel.  he admits he's lied in the past, but he keeps thinking he can still get away with lying.  i don't think he's lost confidence in the prosecutor and k.l.p.d., he's just totally frustrated because they don't buy his lies either.  his only choices are to lie and not be believed, or finally tell the truth and have to go to jail.  that he will never be willing to do.
dennisintn

it's what he sees as his own invention.  "killer grunge".  he can see himself leading the fashion world into accepting it as their new standard.
dennisintn

Well, there are enough guilty folks in this affair to focus on them and not innocent people whose only guilt is their bloodline. I know that Matt's loss is different and granted greater than Vals, but Val's loss to him is pretty all encompassing. At the least this is a lot for Val to deal with, and I am hoping that both Matt and Val are left out of this

I think he has that Cuban Rebel look going. A young Castro. I think I heard a Fox newsgirl make the same remark.

[

Well, there are enough guilty folks in this affair to focus on them and not innocent people whose only guilt is their bloodline. I know that Matt's loss is different and granted greater than Vals, but Val's loss to him is pretty all encompassing. At the least this is a lot for Val to deal with, and I am hoping that both Matt and Val are left out of this
[/quote]
that, i will totally agree with.
dennisintn

I guess I think all kids deserve the "good feelings" of everyone, regardless of who they come from or where they are from until they earn a different response on their own.

lol

that, i will totally agree with.
dennisintn
[/quote]

I hope Val was not involved.  No one has proven to me that any of them were not home during this terrible event.  Why would Anita leave the youngest there to be tormented by Joran?  Why would Anita even be gone so close to a school year ending?  Who came back on the plane with Palus?  Val may be traumatized or he may have gotten caught up in the whole thing because of family.  There are questions that are not answered.
      Jack Blue

The reaction of the Sloot parents in this episode is interesting, rather subdued in my opinion.

When I first had my babies, I don't think I realized they would grow into big, hairy men.  Somewhere along the way this began to dawn on me and I realized they would be much larger, stronger, etc. than I was very young so better get their respect and in a big hurry as I didn't have much time with their growth rates being what they were.

So whenever one of mine would suffer one of these dreadful losses of control and have a tantrum like this or throw something at somebody, etc. I would counter with one of equal/greater loss of control which usually involved such available items as a hairbrush, fly swatter, belt or whatever was at hand.  It could also only involve words but they were not words the offending child wanted to hear at all.  "We don't do this kind of thing!" said with just the right tone and look thereafter had tremendous weight with them.

Must have been a genetic thing, huh?  But I did find that the unspoken deal if they did not want me to lose control also, they had to maintain it themselves worked like a charm.  They weren't stupid and got the message.  There are certain social norms we ALL have to maintain or none of us have to do so was the message I was sending them and they got it.  They knew I didn't really lose control at all but was trying to demonstrate rather than just say words to them.

Two of them complied and soon never again claimed a loss of control in my presence.  The middle one tried for a while to outdo me in the loss of control arena but eventually decided it wasn't worth the effort and big deal I would make of it and I was able to wear him down eventually also.

Again, there are societal norms we either all have to abide by or none of us do.  Joran thinks himself above these kinds of norms and very special.   He isn't.  None of us are.  The narcissistic aspect of his sociopathic personality disorder.  Not a great deal can be done with these flawed people but they can be taught that their actions have swift and sudden consequences, something I don't think running after Joran or saying Oh no! really addresses at all.

But then they are about 10-15 years too late to start teaching him the basics of how things work.

.

I am not a mental health professional but this is how I feel about this episode and I would be paying attention to this if I ever had to meet Joran in person for any reason.

The wine-throwing incident was not just bad manners and a temporary loss of anger.  It was extremely irrational and out of context for the "public relations" purpose of the meeting put on for his behalf by his family and probably many others and at other's time and expense.

It was an attack plain and simple.  Look at his face.  He calmly and coldly tosses the wine on Peter who was looking down and minding his own business, unaware, and not in confrontation at the time.  He didn't see it coming.  No one saw it coming.  Joran quickly did it when no one was watching or expecting it.  It was a threat and a statement from a guy who thinks he is all-powerful.  It was a slap in the face to his supporters and his family also.  He was saying to Peter De Vries and everyone else, "Don't f with me or you'll be sorry".  If he thought he could get away with it, he would have assaulted him more violently and if he had a weapon handy he would have used it and then walked away as if nothing had happened. 

His explanation and apology later were cooked up by his public relation experts (Dad or Taco or “Joran’s a sweet boy” Taco assistant ect.) - definitely not Joran's idea - or if he had second thoughts later, it was to save his own skin - apology is not in his make up.  I can just see his father pleading with him to go back and apologize.  (In the Greta "inclined to believe" interview he said he was sorry he left Natalee on the beach.   Why didn't he say that immediately to Natalee's family and the police when they arrived at the scene saying their daughter was missing?  Wouldn't an innocent person be concerned and want to help find her, not lead everyone on a wild goose chase?  Beth saw that cold expression when she asked him what happened and she knew him then and there for what he is).

Peter De Vries is a gentleman and has taken it calmly.  That he was temporarily blinded by the wine is not ok.  I am surprised the studio security guards did not grab Joran and detain him.  In the US I think that may have been the response if a TV personality was attacked on or off the air.  He's a walking time bomb for another violent attack and someone should pay attention.  He's a threat to others.

If I ever had any doubts about Joran’s involvement in Natalee’s disappearance, which I have not, I wouldn't anymore after seeing this.  He assaulted Natalee and he and or others let her die or he killed her and he and or others disposed of the body and the evidence.  That those three were not separated detained and questioned and their cars and homes searched immediately goes beyond bungling by the police.  The arrest of the guards screamed cover-up. That the poor "boys" were scared and so they lied and so it's Natalee’s family’s fault the evidence was lost in the first 10 days (Aruba excuse, Dutch excuse) doesn't fly.  So the cops believed the lies and ran with it?  NOT.  Not even in Aruba. There is a foul odor coming from that island and it starts with four suspects and spreads around.

that, i will totally agree with.
dennisintn
[/quote]

Bondia.com 1/14/08
(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3319/jvdsuu0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Yes, I noticed that, too.

Welcome Enough!

I agree with you  :wink:

Enough - Welcome!  I agree with you 100%!  Great post.

Welcome, Enough.....great first post.

I haven't seen that name mentioned in a while.  Can anyone tell us what the article is about?

I believe JVDS is discussing politics in the region.

I tried to read it in Diario this morning and can't figure it out, sorry.

Welcome -enough- ...I agree and I like your name.

Welcome to SM "enough" - Great first post and I agree 100%

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I was working and lurking.  :wink:

Joran's biggest insult was not to Peter deVries but to his parents.  They gave up their time and traveled half way around the world to defend him on international television and he just totally disregards and undermines their efforts.  Makes liars of them saying he is both civilized and incapable of voilence, etc.

In respect there has to be at least a slight element of fear even if the fear is only that that person will withhold their love from you or think badly of you.  Joran doesn't care what his parents think of him and has no respect for them either one.

MO

.

How could he do that to his best friends son  :wink:

ENOUGH,

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/Greetings/Prayer%20Thanks%20Compliment/thwelcomebirds-1.jpg)

Posted by MF at RU:
MF wrote:
 
And now, the program is claiming that the video of Joran throwing the wine in deVries' face was authorized to be broadcasted by NOVA. The video segment was not to be used by other programs, but apparently since there were many reporters in the audience this was leaked in the interest of journalism:

Ruzie over wijnincident Joran
Uitgegeven: 14 januari 2008 10:02
Laatst gewijzigd: 14 januari 2008 11:16

HILVERSUM - Binnen de gelederen van de NPS, die in samenwerking met de VARA de programma's Nova en Pauw & Witteman uitzendt, is onenigheid ontstaan over het uitzenden van het 'wijnincident' met Peter R. de Vries en Joran van der Sloot.
Within the members from the NPS, who in coorporation with the VARA the programs Nova and Paul & Witteman transmit, arose a disagreement concerning the transmitting from the "wineincident" with De Vries and JvdS.

NOVA zond de beelden van het incident, dat plaatsvond na de uitzending, zaterdag zeer tegen de zin van de redactie van Pauw & Witteman uit, zo meldt eindredacteur Herman Meijer.
NOVA transmitted the imagages of the incident, that happened after the program, on saturday, against the will of the producer of Pauw & Witteman, announces the producer Herman Meijer.

Na de uitzending, waarbij ook de ouders van Van der Sloot aanwezig waren, gooide Joran van der Sloot een glas wijn in het gezicht van De Vries. Die had Joran het vuur aan de schenen gelegd over de leugens die hij de politie op Aruba zou hebben verteld over zijn handelen op de avond dat Natalee Holloway verdween.
After the program was aired, also present where the parents of JvdS, JvdS threw a glass of wine in the face of De Vries.
De Vries (had heet vuur aan de schenen gelegd) had put hot coals against his legs over his dealings on the evening that Natalee H disapeared.

Vertrouwen
Trust

In de Volkskrant zegt Witteman maandag dat de beelden niet zijn vrijgegeven door zijn programma. "Wij hebben de beelden niet aan Nova gegeven. Als de uitzending is afgelopen dan is de uitzending afgelopen. Daar moeten onze gasten op kunnen vertrouwen."
On monday in the Volkskrant Witteman says that the images where not released by his program: "We did not give the images to NOVA".
When the broadcast is over then the broadcast is over.
Our guests should have trust in this.Uitzenden

Volgens Meijer vond er na het incident een goed gesprek plaats tussen de familie van der Sloot en De Vries en werd met de redactie afgesproken de beelden niet uit te zenden. "Ik heb ze dat toegezegd."
Acoording to Meijer there was a very good conversation, after the incident, between the family vdS and De Vries, there was an agreement with the producers, that we would not broadcast the images.
"I promissed them this"

Speurwerk
sluthwork

Nova-hoofdreacteur Carel Kuyl zegt de beelden via 'handig speurwerk' te hebben gekregen. Hij begrijpt het standpunt van Witteman, maar vindt dat het journalistiek belang in dit geval voorgaat.
NOVA-headproducer Carel Kuyl said he received the imagges through "clever sluth work.
He understands the point of view from Witteman, but finds that the journalistic importance in this case priority has.
"Die jongen gooit in een publieke ruimte de wijn waar ook nog journalisten bij zitten. Dan begrijp ik nu de commotie niet zo goed", aldus de NOVA-hoofdredacteur.

Excuses

Volgens Peter R. de Vries heeft Joran na het incident zijn excuses aangeboden. Volgens de misdaadverslaggever was de moeder van Joran ook flink van slag. "Het pijnlijke was dat ze tijdens de uitzending juist haar best had gedaan om Joran te presenteren als een jongen die goed opgevoed was en die zich goed kon beheersen", aldus De Vries.
Acoording to De Vries Joran did apologize after the incident.
Acoording to the crimereporter Joran's mother was very upset.
"It was painful that she, during the program, she had done her best to present Joran as a boy who was brought up the right way, and that he can control himself" acoording to De Vries.

Ook internationale media besteedden aandacht aan het wijnincident. De Amerikaanse zender Fox News besteedde er zaterdag al een item aan.

Dayhiker,

I think that may be what I was trying to say in my great, long post going on and on about loss of control.  I could have been over that table and nailed the little jerk in about .8 seconds!

 :D :D :D

Not saying I would have on international TV but the thought sure would have gone through my mind and he would have known it was, too.

.

Count me among the "Work and Lurk" crowd, but WELCOME, enough! I totally agree with your post!  :wink:

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/MOD/bbhl.gif)

I agree.

Believe it or not ... Joran is maturing and ... with this maturity ... the bitter realization is setting in ... if his parents had done right and not attempted to shield him from accepting personal responsibility for his actions encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 ... there would have been passing consequences but ... other than Natalee's family ... today the the 18 year old girl who went missing on Aruban soil would be a distance memory.

Almost three years later ... Joran's lack of self control on the WITTEMAN SHOW implies that respect is lacking for Anita and Paulus van der Sloot ... parents who failed to convey to him with their actions that boundaries established by a civilized society must be adhere to ... parents whose actions failed to convey to him that justice demands accountability.

Janet

Can someone refresh my memory as to who this Brinkman in the article quoting vd Straten refers to?  Name is familiar but I can't recall right now who he is and what he did to tick them off so.

.

Temblor sinti na islanan ariba 
Internacional 
Monday, 14 January 2008
 
(http://www.24ora.com/images/stories/news/breaking%20news.gif)

Pa 10.31 awe mainta tabatatin un temblor den caribe. Esaki a sosode 60km SSW di e isla di Sint Maarten. For di KNMI e informacion ta bisa cu e magnitud di e temblor tabata di 4.2 te 4.4 riba schaal di richter. E profundidad di e temblor tabata 30 km. For di islanan aruba nos a ricibi hopi informacion cu nan a sinti esaki na diferente sitio riba nan isla.


FYI - 4.2-4.4 is really small IMO.  We laugh at those in California, LOLOL.  What the above is saying is a 4.2-4.4 earthquake has hit near St. Maarten.  It's not showing on the USGS website yet.

Not sure why they consider it breaking news  :roll:

http://www.24ora.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

Was it Brinkman, or something to do with Brinkman when Aruba walked out of a meeting of the NL Antillies?  It think it was in the papers last week?

Welcome, Enough!  I agree 100% with your excellent first post!

I watched as much as I could find of the interview.  Even though I can't understand what's spoken, there was a LOT GOING ON AT THAT TABLE.  It was absolutely electric at one point. 

Joran was outraged that DeVries doesn't buy the crap he's peddling, and challenged him with his own repeated lies so that Joran was totally boxed in by his own comments.

Joran's eyes flashed with anger, and he wanted to punch Devries but couldn't reach him.  You could see Joran's eyes darken and flash as DeVries maintained eye contact.  Joran's expression demonstrated seething anger that was absolutely explosive.  He was enraged, and even though things were winding down, Joran's anger was festering, and he was unable to disguise it.  Not very cool for an experienced poker player.

As the interview ended, and all were shaking hands, Joran was still seething, and wondering what he can do.  If Devries hadn't been across the table, Joran would have sucker punched him while he wasn't looking. 

That's the kind of furious coward Joran is.  He's completely transparent and pathetic.  A real Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.  Quite the stark contrast with the show he put on for Greta, isn't it?  IMO, Joran is comfortable when things are in his control, and everyone is buying his BS; He counts on that.  He depends on it because it has worked so well for such a long time.  When he is challenged, and boxed in, not in control, called out for his BS, he explodes.

The world has now seen the Joran that Anita took to the doctor.  The one she had difficulty with.  The one that is out of control.  The world has now seen the narcissistic, psychopathic Joran van der Sloot.

Joran van der Sloot......the gift that just keeps on giving.  Keep talking Joran.

 :shock:

I do believe that Aruba is attempting to distract the current  dialogue which is taking place on the SM forum ... the current dialogue which is exposing the main suspect in the Natalee Holloway case for who he is ... the main suspect who has been protected since day one by a corrupt Aruban investigation.   :lol:

Janet 

Janet,

I do so agree.  And the no body/no case advice from Paulus was the very worst he could have given Joran.  In a matter of life and death like this, there are things more important than keeping Joran out of jail, especially considering the ultra-lite sentencing policies in effect there.

Joran has to be thinking that it would have been so much better to have gotten it over and done with from the start and has also to be questioning just whose benefit that advice from Paulus was really for in the end.

The thought also went through my mind that some of his rage at deVries was displaced anger with Anita for daring to say she questioned his innocence at one time and would have turned him in if she knew for a fact he was guilty.  He knows for a fact he is guilty and so is thinking she would turn him in if she found out all that he knows.  If he had two glasses of wine, would not have been surprised to see Anita get the second one.

Joran will turn on those parents eventually like a bad dog.  And he won't be totally wrong in doing so.  They have failed him in so many ways but then he wasn't that much to work with to start.

From the Aruba bulletin board...   
http://www.aruba-bb.com/viewtopic.php?t=53440

Oprah Will Interview Beth Twitty

(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2006/celebdatabase/oprahwinfrey/oprah_winfrey1A_300_400.jpg)

January 11th 2008, Aruba.

 

ORANJESTAD-The Queen of talk-show, Oprah Winfrey will dedicate an
entire program on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Oprah
Winfrey Show has chosen not to be involved in the media circus
surrounding the disappearance of Natalee in Aruba. Now that the case is
closed, Oprah will interview Beth Twitty, the mother of Natalee Holloway.

The Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway was part of a chaperoned
student group who vacationed on the island in May of 2005. Natalee
disappeared on May 30th after a night out at Carlos ‘n Charlie’s.
She was last seen leaving the nightclub with Joran van
der Sloot, and the brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe.

The three were held as the main suspects involved in her disappearance.
However no evidence is found against the three and they were later
released. Authorities have not found any evidence leading to a possible
homicide.

The show dedicated to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway will be
aired on Wednesday January 16th. Oprah Winfrey has a U.S. audience of
23 million people, and the show is seen in 112 countries around the World.


I hightly doubt the entire show is about Natalee.  I think someone in Aruba got their information wrong  :wink:

We once had a 3.0 earthquake and I didn't even know it.

Agree, Oprah seldom has a whole program dedicated to just one subject.

Also, it is disheartening to see that there is already action to remove the proof of what Joran did, claims of it being illegally transmitted, etc.

Guess Paulus is trying to work up another lawsuit.  But if it happened as we know it did after the regular programming and was covered by members of the press who were present, it should be come no different than any other episode of Joran and his tantrums.  The copyright of that one program does not follow Joran, protecting him all the days of his life.

The minute the credits started to roll, program over, and he is fair game to a free press.

No way they are ever going to be able to put this toothpaste back in the tube.  The more they try, the more people will want to see what they are trying to hide.

But Paulus might be thinking lawsuit of some sort for the producers of that program.

Enough, I, too, wonder why security did not seize Joran and call the cops.  It was clearly an assault on another guest.

I think I have been on opposite sides from Van Der Straten, or at least thought I was, but on this issue we are like 2 peas in a pod. I think Joran needs to interact with either of us like he did with Peter and I think he can be cured, rapidly!!!!!

I hightly doubt the entire show is about Natalee.  I think someone in Aruba got their information wrong  :wink:
[/quote]
and what would be different about that?
dennisintn

After Scott Peterson was convicted Oprah had a whole show about that case.
Scott's sister had written a book about why she thought he did it and she was
there along with some others.  I had not followed the case that closely and
thought the show was great.

and what would be different about that?
dennisintn
[/quote]


They know the entire hour wouldn't be devoted to one person.  They are just saying this so they can later claim Oprah for some very sinister reason cut the coverage short just as they always do.

These are the same people who were predicting she would be firing Dr Phil as well, speaking of their infinite wisdom.

.

Klaas,
I apologize...my post ended up right in the middle of yours.
I didn't scroll down far enough.

No problem, I fixed it  :D

Thank you.  I hope Oprah does let Beth tell all she knows for an hour.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/01/oprah-winfrey-t.html

Marion Jones will discuss her fall from Olympic greatness and her steroid use in an exclusive interview with Oprah Winfrey. The talk show queen offers the chat on Wednesday's show.

The same day, Winfrey will turn to the Natalee Holloway case. Beth Holloway provides an update on her daughter's disappearance two years ago. Natalee's brother Matt also discusses the family's story.

"The Oprah Winfrey Show" airs at 4 p.m. weekdays on WFTV-Channel 9.

AND I'm sure they'll discuss the cheap shot by Joran on DeVries Friday night...Joran is a coward...nobody but a coward would attack someone like that while their head was down...sick bastard...

Wow. There's so much to be gleened from that interview. It tells me that Joran was never really pushed in interrogations. He has no pat answers even now as to why he lied. Anita, his own Mother had doubts about what he did. Who knows him better than his mother? If she could fathom him guilty, who are we to question his capability for participation in a crime? Anita does react to the wine throwing, and she directs it as an admonishment at Joran. It's weak and sad, and probably typical of the lack of grit her parenting skills have, but her comments aren't in the nature of, "Oh, Goody, DeVries got what was coming to him." She does grasp that Joran has done something wrong and she does direct her comments at him. She may be thinking it hurts the family's position and is not concerned at all for DeVries, but she does grasp Joran has done something wrong. Flame me if you want, but I think, at that moment, that Anita's reaction was recognition of both the harm done to Joran's image and to the action DeVries was victim of.

Joran basically says that he remained silent due to a well thought out strategy to assure his release. It's a legal strategy with total disregard to what happened to Natalee, but DeVries won't let his answers go without holding Joran's answers up to a moral standard. Joran consistantly falls short of the mark on those basis and his buttons are pushed over and over. Moral standards are a real pesky thing to Joran, and he certainly did not expect anyone to assert them on Natalee's behalf! After all, he knows the line that suggest they should be extended to himself as victim of ALE and the Holloways........Taco refined that argument and Greta bought it hook, line, and sinker, and it served him extremely well. Greta announced to the world that she believed him, and it worked like a charm in a public forum there!

This is a picture of a sociopath. This is a picture of Natalee Holloway's killer.
[/quote]

 :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :salut: :salut: :salut: :smt041  :smt041 :smt041 :smt038 :smt038 :smt045 :smt045 :smt045 :2notworthy: :2notworthy: :2notworthy:
[/quote]
well, memphis, we'll get broiled together like a shiskabob if there's any flaming going happen, because i agree with you l00%.  i really think most monkeys here will agree with you too.
dennisintn
[/quote]

LOL dennisintn. I lliked CBB's post. Could you tell?
CBB, very insightful of you. I especially liked the part about moral standards being a pesky thing for Joran, and that he didn't expect anyone to assert them on Natalee's behalf.
Who does Joran have close to him that asserts any moral standards? Ha!

I watched Oprah today, and besides Beth/Matt, Marion Jones, there's another movie/show discussed, which I can't think of the name of now.. :2doh: 

LMAO @ MISHY's BUTT!!!!!!

I believe it's going to be Ellen Page and Jennifer Garner from the movie JUNO.

Yes. That's it.  So, you were right.  The segments will be split somehow between the 3....Beth was a definite for a while....maybe the others were decided on more recently...or maybe not. 

True, but let ''em worry.  :lol:

Exactly.

Furthermore ... I once thought that he took care of the body himself, that his father would be the LAST person he'd want to call on (like most teens). However, after seeing the extent to which these parents go to protect him, I've changed my mind. He KNEW and his parents would cover up for him no matter what he did.

Unfortunately for all of them, he is now an adult and society's problem, not a six-year-old. There's a limit to what parents can explain.

I can see him going off on Natalee if she resisted him, in the same way that he went off on deVries for the same reason.

Case closed.

I am mazed reading at other sites that they are saying that the video of him throwing the wine should not be available to the public, well, they trotted Joran out to meet the world and let the world judge by his answers and attitude their impression as to his guilt or innoncence, or maybe just his general disposition. To tell you the truth, I am not what possessed his parents to subject Joran to that situation nor the situation where he was interviewed by Greta. But how he behaves in public is available to the public. They and he interjected himself into the public news. On Greta, it worked and he came out ahead. This time things didn't do so well. He didn't swoon Peter off of his feet. His true color shone, in public, and unlike his confession in the Arubian prison, HE CAN'T RECANT THIS EPISODE. AS WITH NATALEE'S DISAPPEARANCE JORAN'S ACTIONS AND WORDS HAVE ONCE AGAIN CLOAKED HIM WITH THE APPEARANCE OF GUILT.

ANITA, PAULUS, IF YOU NEED MONEY SELL SOMETHING OTHER THAN JORAN'S APPEARANCE ON THE TV PROGRAMS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF HIS BEHAVIOR. HE HAS NO ONE TO BLAME BUT THE TWO OF YOU, FOR THIS, FOR THE DIRECTIONS OF HIS DEFENSE OF HIS ACTIONS, FOR THE STATE OF HIS UPBRINGING, AND THE CRUSHING OF ALL OF THE HOPES OF HIS YOUTH. WAS IT TO PROTECT HIM OR TO SAVE YOU FROM EMBARRASSMENT? IT CERTAINLY DIDN'T SAVE YOUR JOB? JUST WHY WERE YOU EXPELLED FROM THE PROGRAM? THE JUDGES SEEMED TO HAVE YOUR NUMBER DON'T THEY? THEY COVERED FOR YOU BUT SURE DON'T WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH YOU.

 A MINOR INVOLVED IN WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN AN ACCIDENTAL DEATH THOUGH IT HAPPENED IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME POSSIBLY? THE TRUTH WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN SOME CONSEQUENCES, BUT NOT SEVERE ENOUGH TO RUIN HIS LIFE AS THIS IS GOING TO DO. OR DO YOU PAULUS KNOW SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW?

 AND YOU PAULUS, A JUDGE IN TRAINING WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER, AND ANITA, AREN'T YOU A MOTHER AND A TEACHER OF THE YOUTH IN ARUBA. DID JORAN LEARN HOW TO TREAT WOMEN BY WATCHING HOW PAULUS TREATED YOU? DID YOU KNOW SUPPORT THE RULE OF LAW ENOUGH TO TEACH IT TO YOUR SON? OR DOES IT ONLY APPLY TO OTHERS?

Pauw.: What we do here Joran, is just citing the report of the Judge-commissionar who has used that at Aruba. In this way Deepak Kalpoe stated that her death was not good, has Satish Kalpoe - which is the other friend or brother, what is it exactly? …

Joran: His brother.

Pauw: … Kalpoe thinks that suspect - you - has hit her to death, you yourself supposedly have stated about the burying of Natalee Holloway? That are some hard fact because of which you suggest that indeed something IS going on?

Joran: Yes, … I, I, … It’s three years ago now and in the beginning we’ve been really treated tough by the police and made to say things that we… wouldn’t say ourselves. And yes I have the feeling they made me want to say things that weren’t true.

Pauw: Did you never say… Or have you never spoken about burying Natalee Holloway?

Joran: No I have never discussed that with the pollice.

Anita: Can I go into that for a moment?

Witt.: Off course.

Anita: Uhmmm… When Joran was arrested for the first time I was the only one who was allowed to see him. Because he was a minor and they wanted to keep out Paul because of his function. Uhm, I have spoken to Joran some times but only short, some 15 to twenty minutes. And I am his mother. I love him very dearly. And I’m really convinced he wouldn’t do anything to that girl. These first emotions, these are very important to me… to see them in him as well… For a moment I doubted him. I’ve thought… By Jingo, could an accident have happened? Has something happened? Doesn’t he want to tell… He is just having his final exams… He knows he has final-exams-celebrations… He has a girlfriend… so he’s cheated on her… His father will be very angry with him… Etc. etc…. So I very directly spoke with him and one of the confrontations… that I came over there… And I was taken by an Aruban detective… And Joran was very upset… He before that was beset for hours and hours… Words were put in his mouth… which he never said… that were put to paper but that he never signed. And they showed that to me…: ‘This is what he said!’


How do we not believe this is the confession??  Of course it is no good because Anita made sure Joran didn't sign it.  Since they supposedly waited to arrest them until the videotape came in from Holland.  Why is an unsigned confession not a confession??  Poor Joran didn't mean what he said??  Deepak and Satish are on record with a report by the judge??  :2doh:

If Greta had interviewed him PROPERLY -- she too would have been doused. :-|

So will Carpe You Tube Beth's  appearance on Oprah?  I will definately not be home and I doubt I can get it together to tape it.   :roll:  Regardless of which segment Beth is on, I won't be home. 

I'm pretty sure he's going to be taping it. :D

Thank you, Klaas. 

And thanks for the other stuff you do behind the scenes when you're supposed to be working. :cool:

 :wink: Sometimes I even run to the store  :lol:

well, you know what they say...if ya got it...  :lol: :lol: :cool:

kinda O/T
Wreck,
I've often watched your 2 trains crash as I'm scolling, and thought that's neat!

Now I get it! It really made sense after the interview of the people of the ditch.

I don't usually watch "train wrecks" but this one is going to be good.

"I hear the train a comin'. It's comin' down the track....." J. Cash.

Paulus Van der Sloot to Dave Holloway:  "I would do anything to protect my son."

OF has it goin on!! His own kissing booth  :wink:
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/Valentine%20Avatar/OFKissBoothGlasssmooch.gif)
Dont forget to watch Oprah Wednesday the 16th..Check your local listings!

Hi again everyone and welcome to "Enough"!

Now that I have read more about the DeVries incident, I can say that Joran has committed a MAJOR PR error with the cameras rolling, and this will not help him at all in the public light. He is probably more concerned with his "image" than with anything else in his life (like all narcissists are) and that image is in freefall right now. A true narcissist HAS to be liked, adored, worshipped and respected by others... it is their basic urge... and when it is unfulfilled, they SUFFER inside. Literally. I have seen them and know how they think.

The BEST way to get Joran to pay for what he did, is to render him an outcast. He's doing that all on his own. It may be all he ever has to pay for what he did, but it's something.

Remember when I said "Don't trust Mos" when all were singing his praises? Well...
I am reiterating this again and we shall see if I am right again...

Oprah Winfrey NEVER gave Beth the TIME OF DAY until Joran was off the hook. I TOLD ALL OF YOU THAT SHE WOULDN'T.  :wink:

I am not getting any warm fuzzies whatsoever over the fact that she is now interviewing Beth.

Guess Oprah thinks her timeshare won't lose any value now... or that Beth can't hurt the left politically now, with no legal legs left for her to stand on...

Oprah DISGUSTS me. Period. She is on a par with renfro.

Welcome Enough!!

I agree with both of these excellent posts.

Just a sentence or two more before the end of the program and I believe that Joran just might have "lost it" during the show.  You can see it on his face....just about all he could do to hold it back for a couple of minutes.  Hair trigger temper!!

Don't tell me that he couldn't have been broken in jail...I'm sure he was....Aruba will just NEVER own up to it.

WHAT is it that the VDS have over the entire island??!!??

24ora comment
2008 pink panter said: _ wel wel, again joran is in news but is sigi lastra aruba cune the dutch animal here!!!! besides if the does not controvercia why eta sigi aparese in programanan? is pace the sir here is one berdadero phycopata dangerous cu his parents owing to crea y owing to work one monster of djie cu some day will become contra they y they will not can controle more y the hour the gay will canta y i am wait for will is soon besides i am contento cu the cos here owing to happen cu his own hulandesnan y once more all world will see of what especie eta work!!! smilies/angry.gif

Snip :Also, it is disheartening to see that there is already action to remove the proof of what Joran did, claims of it being illegally transmitted, etc.

Guess Paulus is trying to work up another lawsuit.  But if it happened as we know it did after the regular programming and was covered by members of the press who were present, it should be come no different than any other episode of Joran and his tantrums.  The copyright of that one program does not follow Joran, protecting him all the days of his life.
Where did this come from Anna ? Is he really trying to stop it ?

Does anyone else see this when looking at pvds?
All his facial features are in the lower 1/3 of his face.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/nmauimikee/alien.jpg)

lol...you go girl!!!

yep same forehead!!!

Indicative of a lenient socialist/near-communist society that will remove this.  This is where the rubber meets the road on "freedom of speech/press, etc."

Thank you.  You see this facade of a woman with the same chip on her shoulders carrying a bullhorn to advance her elitist opinions as I see.  I am happy that I am not the only one with eyes wide open when it comes to Oprah.  She will spin it Joran's way; it's her nature to agree with the lowest segment of society.  If I am wrong, I will apologize to eveyrone here.

Tyler, she will make Greta look like an angel in the Beth Selling-Out category.

SB, you and Tyler are just Rpublicans. :lol:

I will withold judgement until I see the show.

I hardly ever watch Oprah. She is on when I am at work. I think if I wanted to, I could find a channel where it is rebroadcast, but I have never had the urge to do so. But I will make sure to see it on YouTube or wherever ( Ty Carpe ).
I amjust intersted in what tone , how much time, but I am more interested in what Beth has to say frankly, not Oprah.   

More like JVDS to me :smt092

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/alienjoran.jpg)

SB - I have to believe Beth knows what she's doing.  I personally never watch Oprah but I will Wednesday. 

 :lol: :lol: :lol: He's still in the 12th grade.

I hope Oprah ask's why this missing case is different than the rest. Let Beth explain why this isn't white girl missing syndrome or whatever they call it. America needs to know how evil that corrupt Govt is and how the police,prosecution,defense and judges all worked together to protect the pimps and there precious tourism. Let Beth explain why on june 1st they knew they were lying but still falsely and illegally arrested two black men to frame or distract attention away from the real killers.

You are an A+ in my book:))))))))

Beth has gone into the lion's den (of the media) MANY times now and always does well. I don't think that Beth shouldn't DO it... she has kept Greta's numbers afloat for 2 1/2 years... but I call into question the agenda that Oprah has in doing this NOW, after the fact, basically... It speaks volumes to me that it didn't happen until Joran was released from suspect status, and then IMMEDIATELY thereafter.

You watch and see if there isn't a heavy accident/someone else did it slant in that show.

ARUBA and the THUGS who run it DO NOT WANT A CRIME TO HAVE BEEN COMMITTED HERE and the left and the mob in Europe and the US is 100% COMPLICIT in this.

What I like most about Wednesday is that Beth will be able to tell Natalee's story to over 23 million people. Like Oprah or not, trust her or not, Beth has one hell of an audience to work with and it WILL affect Aruba and it just may save another family from the same ordeal.

And give the killers time to destroy all of the evidence.  No judge at their houses
to limit the search warrant.

I apologize everyone for popping in and out, but I keep getting interrupted. Things start falling apart when I spend too much time here.  :wink:  Wish I could participate more.

Just a couple of things...
First, enough, that was one superb post!

Second, where is Taco?  hehe Someone else mentioned that if we don't hear from him we'll know he's off the payroll.

I agree Klaas, I put my faith in Beth...she has been in the "Lion's Den" as SB said many times...she do just fine as always.

Oh, one more thing for now...

I suppose Paulus is going to try to sue someone over the release of the tape. Silly man.

This has been so much fun to watch.  :lol:  Finally, we get some laughs.

I more imagine that Oprah has approached Beth before, and for reasons unknown to us, it just hasn't worked out until now. And to be honest, I think the timing could not have been better. Just as Aruba thought it could rest, here come the big gun out, and by big gun I mean her viewing audience. Bill Oreilly, 2,000,000 is a big night, and look how he treated Beth on his last show. Oprah, 20,000,000+ viewers, when Aruba's first string has just been hit by a bus:)))))))) Oprah is a classy lady, and her audience is a powerful one. Most vacation dollars are spent according to the woman of the house and 75% of all books are bought by the class of women who make up her audience. And for Oprah, the Lord provided her free advertising and interest in her topic, Beth, thanks to Joran and Peter. Both of these women seem to have saved her appearance until the time was ripe:::::)))))))))))

Good, let him sue NOVA and that will bring even more attention to Joran, his temper and the case.

Klaas. have we heard any more about the Dr Phil/K2 case?

I still can't find anything new there in randomly looking through 5 threads. I am still trying to catch up.

This was billed as Joran's last interview. Even though he knew he didn't deserve it..He wanted a apology from Peter De Vries because he was released as a suspect.  When he didn't get it he acted out..In real life Joran will find out very soon that being spoiled rotten from your parents and getting away with everything is far different than real life. Next temper tantrum he throws might be with the wrong person and mommy and daddy wont be able to help. I am still convinced he will go down for what he did to Natalee. This was a small example of what he did to Natalee when she screamed at him and fought him for drugging and raping her.MO

Joran asking for a apology from De Vries
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7510/apologyhy4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

After De Vries refuses to give him a apolgy
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/350/apology1mf2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

I like the size of Oprah's audience. But, there is probaly an agreement as to what she can say or not say. They all seem to have these agreements.
But it will be good for the case to have it brought up again in front of millions.
And I doubt if there will be any throwing of anything at the host or guest.
They is ladies ! And it ain't the Jerry Springer Show, although I would like to see the Sloots on Jerry. Guests could be Deepak and Satish and everyone's Mummas. ROFL  .. Do they have shows like Jerry ( is he still on ) in the NL ?
   

Private Eye, your family is so lucky to have you! You seem to be such a good man.
I also hope that Anita reads your messages to her. You are so on the money.
I also agree that the Lord provided for both Beth and Oprah with this incident. I do not mean any disrespect by saying this is enjoyable to watch. After so long, it is just so much fun seeing the light shining on the darkness.  :D

It would make a very point if they could create a satire where they recreate the Joran episode in jest::)))))))Maybe Saturday Night Live will be next? If they can get an emmy for a "Dick in a Box" surely they can do something with "Lies by Joran On Camera Off Camera":)

Beth needs to hit a HOME RUN this time, for sure. Having Matt on there cannot hurt at all.

This time above all others, Beth has to grab hold of this interview and focus in like a laser beam on the corruption of Aruba and the crime involved here, and not let it be directed by the hostess into a how-are-you-coping pity party or a look-in-other-directions Refugee-style fantasy exercise. Like I believe Oprah will TRY to do. 

I got the "trains" from either Blah or Old Fart ( :oops: I can't remember which now!!)

Here is the latest - nothing until next month:

Future Hearings
02/05/2008 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion Pro Hac Vice (2) MTN TO DISMISS3) MTN FOR SUBST. OF PERS. REP.FOR DECEASED DEFT4) MTN FOR STAY OF ORDER5) CASE MANAGEMENT CONF6) OSC RE FTA ON 12/7/07)

02/29/2008 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel ((2))

Ma ma.  Ma ma.

lol Klaas you are the fastest photoshopper in the West! and everywhere!

I suppose they could bring back John Lovitz again to do the Pathological Liar skit. She was doing Jello Shots and wanted to see da sharks then I dropped her off at the beach. How did you get home? I walked..With no shoes? Umm It was Deepak then..But he was on the computer at the time..Ok it was Satish..Yeh thats the ticket..I lied and thats the truth  :wink:

Beth has done an amazing job of keeping Natalee's story
in the forefront.  She had no experience being in front
of television cameras and yet she has done a fine job.
She was still in shock when she started on this merry go round.
She has been up against the best and the nastiest of
interviewers and has never backed down.  I have no
doubt that she will continue to do the same on Wednesday.
I have every faith in her abilities.

Yes, those were images I saw, heard and read last night before the video with English subtitles was taken down. I keep thinking that someone must have captured it before it went down, and will repost it. It was very revealing to see what was being said in real time with the facial expressions while listening to the tone of voice and I WISH I had the ability to have copied it. :sad:

NM posted earlier that SK was posing as DK late that evening in chat(s).

I believe this 100%.

Deepak uses chat(s) as his alibi that night.
Satish has no alibi that evening, thus he was SLEEPING.

Absolutely! Recently I watched her very first interview on Aruban TV and I see Jug standing beside her looking at her to see how she was holding up..She has done a great job as it's not easy speaking in the bright lights with all that has happened. I pray she tells America all about this "Botched" Investigation involving Paul Van Der Sloots friends and campaign to protect tourism at all costs.

Really, Joran should do more shows.  The case was becoming old news after JK2 being released as suspects. 

Inside Edition....


Joran Throws Wine

It happened in the blink of an eye...

...A dramatic ending to a live television appearance by the former suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Joran van der Sloot – one of the last people to see Natalee alive – appeared with his parents on a Dutch television show about the case.

There was a testy exchange with Dutch crime reporter Peter De Vries, who accused van der Sloot of lying to police. Van der Sloot, who has denied any wrongdoing in connection with Holloway's disappearance, wanted an apology, and did not get one.

Everyone stood to shake hands at the end of the live show, and then van der Sloot threw a glass of wine in De Vries’s face.

De Vries doubles over and a woman rushes to his aid as he tries to wipe the stinging wine out of his eyes.


De Vries told INSIDE EDITION, “When I wasn't paying any attention for a second, he grabbed a glass of wine off the table and threw it in my face...I couldn't believe what was happening, of course.”

Afterwards, De Vries said that both Joran’s mother and Joran himself apologized to him.

http://insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyID=1177

And sleeping and sleeping.  Didn't he sleep until noon or something and miss school?

Klaas ... I agree.

Beth is one smart lady.  Beth is not deceived ... she realizes that she is being used by these talk show hosts for ratings ... she is being used by these talkshow hosts who have adopted an Aruban agenda.

However ... in turn ... Beth is using these guest appearances to get her message across ... the message that a corrupt Aruban investigation is continuing to deny her daughter justice in an attempt to protect Paulus and Joran from implication in the events of May 30, 2005.

Beth promised the Aruban Prime Minister that she would be Natalee's voice for the next 40 years and ... I believe with all my heart that she will.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
October 24, 2005

HOLLOWAY-TWITTY:  I met with Prime Minister Oduber. I don‘t care who you put the pressure on, where it comes from, but I want—you need to figure it out. You need to figure out who needs to apply the pressure and where it needs to be applied, because you have to solve this crime. I said, you do not want to turn me loose from this island without an answer.”

<snipped>

TWITTY:  I have told Prime Minister Oduber that I will do this, I will be the voice of Natalee for the next 40 years. And I hope I have that long, because I will do it as long as I can.

I don't doubt that either.I think he jumped on MSN to create his alibi,stayed up all night with Mama Kalpoe and they both slept until 1:30 like his last PV says. Question is where was Deepak?

http://travel.webshots.com:80/album/549377093ygMAui

A year and 9 months after I uploaded to Webshots, the Natalee Holloway search photos from the CoolAruba site is still getting views.  111 views this week, that's amazing.  The album is #391 out of over 18,000 albums.   :wink:

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub3/webshots.jpg)

I assure you I get more than I give to my family, and I am certainly no different or better than the next guy, and sometimes I am sure I might be worse:). Father, Mother, brothers, sisters, cousins, and inlaws, I have no complaints, even though I might bitch from time to time. However, I have never met anyone whom I would trade lives or families with, so I consider myself blessed.

 I knew the day Beth was first told of Natalee's disappearance that somebody had picked a fight with a girl who was prepared since birth for this fight and more than up for the challenge. She knows her Dad and family would have stopped the world until they found out what happened to her, taking no prisoners and pulling no punches, and by God she is going to do the same for her little girl. Maybe some can compalin about her methods, she certainly has never meant to harm the innocent and I am sure she has made some innocent mistakes as anyone actually working will do, but no one can doubt her maternal drive to protect her children. She was raised to believe that your children's welfare is the only thing that matters in the end and her most important job.

 Sometimes I wish she would say I'm tired and let her friends handle Joran, but I believe she is giving him more than he can handle, and doing it her way she can still get into heaven:)

When she told Aruba she would be Natalee's voice asking for justice until she breathed her last breath, she meant just that. She is in this for the long haul, so Aruba, pace yourself and be warned. It won't go away until you give her what she deserves, "Justice for Natalee."

I 2nd this post!! Amen!!

Hi BuckShot,
I could never decide if sk, or dk, both or neither of them stayed w/ jurin after c&c. But after reading the wine-assult interview, if dk was w/ jurin, my guess is by the time the 2k computer records indicate they were on-line, dk realized he needed an alibi and had sk logon as dk. 2k did not even think sk would need an alibi, possibly b/c (imo) sk was not even at c&c, it was freddy. the same trio as in the Bailey Ann photos.
Maybe that is why dk was trying to protect sk b/c they didn't provide an alibi for sk.

here's a question for all.  Would dk even notice if sk was s-l-o-w?  :D

I agree Magnolia.

Other than the Holiday Inn fabrication ... I believe that each of Joran's accounts regarding how he got home that fateful morning as well as the insertion of the missing shoes has everything to do with implicating Deepak/Satish as being the last person/s alone with Natalee Holloway.

If Deepak or Satish admitted to picking up Joran at the beach they would be furthering Joran's agenda of implicating themselves in what happened to Natalee Holloway.  However ... if they maintain that they only dropped Natalee and Joran off at the Marriot Beach ... then they are implicating Joran as the last person with Natalee.

In my opinion, when you consider the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM on the morning that Natalee disappearance ... Joran, Deepak and Satish are all lying.   

Janet

+++++++++++++++++


"I WALKED HOME".
Joran is implying that Deepak/Satish returned to beach after he  contacted Deepak and stated he was in the process of walking home after leaving Natalee at the beach sleeping.


"DEEPAK AND SATISH DROPPED ME OFF AT HOME AND LEFT WITH NATALEE".
Joran is implying that Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with the missing 18 year old American citizen.


"DEEPAK PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."
Joran is implying that Deepak could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous


"SATISH PICKED ME UP AT THE BEACH AND THEN RETURNED TO LOOK FOR MY SHOES."
Joran is implying that Satish could have encountered Natalee Holloway at the Marriot Beach where she had been left alone a short time previous


+++++++++++++

THE GARDENER

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
August 17, 2005

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": I don`t know what`s happening, but the gardener, the witness, did stand by his story. He did confirm in front of the judge, in front of the defense attorneys, in front of the suspects, that he recognized, and he even recognized two of the three suspects that were there. He hasn`t changed his story one bit


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

yet another great post PI!! Keep 'em coming. You always hit it right on the mark.

WOW Klaas...that is amazing!!!

Interesting. no mention of pvds. Maybe he was still running!

Well, good night Monkeys, I am going to so snuggle with my little guy.
Keep the faith!!!

zzzzzz...I am feeling so invisible lately!!!  :2doh:
Well night all anyhoo

Yup Attagirl! I still think that area they searched and what they found that day is very important.MO

no wonder he is still in 12th grade!

I know for a fact she depends on and appreciates all of you.

PI ... God Bless.

Janet

I know what ya mean ..Happens to us all :wink: Night :cool:

NOPE - not invisible.  Goodnight ldstlou, give you son a big HUG for us.  :wink:

 :shock:

Hi Dayhiker.

Janet

I bet we could raise a fortune if we auctioned that right to the highest bidder:))))))))))

ROFLMAO at you guys  :lol: :lol:

Good evening Janet, and pardon my French in that post.  :lol:

Greta is in the middle east with the President.  I doubt she'll be covering it.

Nite, Lisa.  I heard every word you said.

Make that 2 of us:)))))))

JORAN and family most definitely were on a PR campaign, as was (prior to this interview) their goal for the near future. They surely felt (a false sense of) legitimacy (in a corrupted investigation), having been recently released as suspects in the disappearance of NATALEE HOLLOWAY. DE VRIES has never been an ally of JVDS, nor been soft on questioning him in his role in the disappearance.  I agree that certain buttons were pushed and JVDS struggled to suppress his violent streak.  Then, as published, IN THE BLINK OF AN EYE, JORAN (probably thinking he was completely off camera) seized his opportunity to RAGE.

The VAN DER SLOOTS can not be happy, after the off-air segment has been broadcast, via internet, to many people.  It surely will do damage to their efforts to paint him as a poster child.  In fact, aside from negating the whole interview, it has actually allowed many to see a side of him that has been sheltered / covered.  People will think... hmmm... if he can RAGE so quickly in this situation, what level of RAGE did he put on display that fateful evening with NATALEE HOLLOWAY ???

DE VRIES, out of revenge, and in searching for the truth, should focus the next several years of his career on trailing JORAN and his explosive behavior.  Wonder what thoughts bounce around in JORAN's head on a daily basis... His own demons (from that fateful evening) will eat at him for years and years to come. KARMA - WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND !!!

SB,  rather than slam Ophra and whatever intent she has to have Beth on the show, why don't you just wait and see?  I do hope that Beth will open up more, and not keep repeating the same thing, or at least Ophra will ask more interesting questions.  This is a great opportunity for Beth with a wide audience.  Am I an Ophra fan?  I don't know, I don't remember ever watching the show..but it does give Beth and her story more air time.  Get off the slam, and just let it happen!  This is Beth's decision. All the shows, Greta and all included, are out for ratings!  Isnt' that a given yet?  It is still an opportunity for Beth to take to the airways...and let's take every opportunity that gives us this kind of market.  Why do you think we hit the travel shows...every little bit matters. 

And second prize is getting to do the same to Renho. :cool:

Realism has little to do with anything else.  I never knew about Oprah's politics until she recently endorsed Obama, but I have always seen that chip on her shoulder and her advancing the lowest common denominator of our society.  If Jerry Springer were prettier, his ratings and Oprah's would be the same; they have a similar agenda.

Klaas, you just determined tonights nightmare...that is so frightening to me. (and I really don't have many dreams!)  oh please...not tonight!

I'm behind, but thumbs up to this...Yes!

Hi Obs,
wherever jurin was. If dk told ale that jurin hit Natalee and Natalee died in a bad way then why doesn't he roll on jurin or ale get jurin? oh, maybe he did roll on jurin and pvds and friends will not let that happen.

OPRAH definitely has an audience, as proven by TV ratings.

BETH appearing on her show will, without a doubt, reach many viewers.  

This has the opportunity to expose a lot of information. I have no opinion on OPRAH, as a person or talk show host.  I hope the platform she gives BETH is used to the fullest in accomplishing whatever she wishes.  TUNE IN !!!

Has "On the Record" with Greta's guest host happened yet?  Please post any updates in the Matthew Wilson thread in the Missing Persons section.

Thank you.

Janet

+++++++++++

I agree 100%. Maybe the "Why II Believe Joran Is Involved And A Cover Up Occurred" followed up by "20 Reason To Boycott Aruba Beginning With The Safety Of Your Own Family." Oprah is providing Beth a huge opportunity and we can really asks no more.

But if Beth is reading, just relax, be yourself, step up to the plate, and hit the ball squarely. No pressure, don't swing for the fence, just meet the ball and you will do great. Your position is one of right, and right is always might:))))))))))) Natalee is surely cheering you on!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEP  :thumright:

Wow Klaas that is great!  It is amazing.  And I never can get the words to say how truly wonderful you are and how great is the work that you do for Natalee, SM and us. Thank you.

Pardon me for the off the wall comment, but...

A week or so ago, a poster had suggested the possibility of NATALEE vomiting, while in the car, on JORAN.  

I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE, but I have considered it as possibilty, along with (sorry for being GRAPHIC) NATALEE, in defending herself, biting (crotch) / kicking / puching her captor(s).  

I say out of American politics, usually. Number ones : Because I am not an American and if I was, I don't know what I would be, BUT, I have a problem with celebrities endorsing candidates. Or worse, appearing on talk shows or having a talk show which is an entertainment show and expressing their political views.

Nite Idstlou. Happy snuggling!

Hi NM,

Absolutely! Also we still haven't heard the modus operandi for that evening. Deepak most certainly wasn't driving and waiting on Joran all night just to be a good buddy. They didn't even get to the bar until after midnight! I think the deal was to just keep it between them 3 and leave everyone else out of it. When they implicated PVDS then Joran said it was them who picked them up.

That was quite startling to hear,although we all knew Natalee was hit in the head somehow :( Now if he indeed was telling the truth in a drug out state to his buddy about Natalee being 10 miles out...That would give them all the confidence in the world she would never be found and it gives the Persistence a precise area to look. Hopefully it was the NW tip of that hell hole.

Janet - I have FOX turned on in the other room.  I'll try to see if Matthew's case is discussed and take notes.  Unfortunately, I often miss stuff BECAUSE the TV is in the other room but I'll try  :wink:

Oprah pulled herself up be her own boot straps, coming from less than modest beginnings and arsing despite her victimization by a relative ( they say creme floats to the top), so while I might be against it personally, I support her right to work and use her means to affect change in America by participating in the election of a President. Its her good name to use as she see's fit. Of course, I wish she would use that name to support the candidtae of my choice, and one day her present choice will be my future choice, but this is the way the cookie crumbles in America:)))))))))

ME TOO ! 

Is it true deVries is going to be on Greta tonight?  Going to tune in and see.

Obs, when VietVet, poster on Frontpage, friend of Jugs, said someone with other reliable info told him jurin hit Natalee with a bat I didn't want to believe it b/c it was Natalee. But I never forgot that info, Now the wine-assault interview where dk states similar thing.  Urgh, it is better if I don't connect the dots sometimes.

Tamikosmom, Greta is just starting now. Covering murdered pregnant marine now.

Also the Gardener ID jurin, dk, and not 100% sk, IMO, could have been freddy.

Klaas ... I was only requesting updates if one of the Monkeys happen to be watching.  I can wait until until tomorrow when FOX posts the transcript.

Thank you.

Janet

Greta/Megan is covering the Marine case right now.

OH, I didn't know that.  I've got it on now, will go back and watch.  Right now they are covering the Marine case.

Wanna say hi real quick.. not on for long..

KLAAS    Got your email yeaterday.. LOL  I wrote to you..  hotmail acct. Dont know if you got it?
Gonna go watch FOX.. can't wait to see what Devries has to say !!
Have a great night everyone!

Oprah will give Beth a huge audience for advancing her cause and telling Natalee's story.  But she could have had Beth on before and didn't.  I don't really trust anyone who promotes that theory that only blonde white victims get any coverage as I would be just as concerned about Natalee regardless of her race, etc.

So there is good and bad to be said about the situation but in the end, I do believe Beth will carry the day and get her message out, a message not even a popular talk show host would want to take anything away from.

So I think it will be good on Wednesday but may have to watch on YouTube like so many as have appointment around that time.

Beth can easily handle Oprah who will not want to come across as uncaring to the mother of a crime victim.  And she is helping Beth to keep Natalee's tragedy in front of the viewing public which at the end of the day, is the most important thing in my opinion.

.

I saw it posted at BFN but did not hear it myself. 

I sure hope so!  DeVries should appear with eyes bandaged just to give Sporter a little something to think about even if they are OK which I pray they, his eyes, are. :D

 :cool:

Ya know, since Joran likes jokes and all so well.  Just saying. . . . .