Freddy Maduro, Aruba Prison Warden
'Countdown with Keith Olbermann'
August 25, 2005
Our correspondent in Aruba and at the center of this case is Michelle Kosinski.
Good evening, Michelle.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Amy. That’s right. NBC is not showing that brief talk we had with Joran Van Der Sloot behind bars, because his attorneys took us to court here on the island, and a judge ruled that we should not air that video, based on Joran Van Der Sloot’s privacy rights. And the judge did say in the first few words of his ruling that he did not question our integrity. And NBC believes that we do have a right to air that interview, but we are abiding with the judge’s decision.
We should also point out that, in court, Joran Van Der Sloot admitted that he saw our camera, that he never tried to stop us from talking to him, even though he said he knew that we were reporters. He chose to answer our questions. Now, despite the judge’s ruling, we can show you this, a rare inside look at the jail where he’s been now for three months. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOSINSKI (voice-over): The Aruba director of prisons invited NBC News to tour the jail where suspect Joran Van Der Sloot has been locked up for nearly three months. The director allowed us to videotape as he showed us around in plain sight.
This is where he exercises two hours a day. This is his cell block. The director offered to take us to the juvenile ward. And we found ourselves face to face with Joran Van Der Sloot. Again, we’re not showing you those pictures. We found him sitting quietly, reading a book with his feet up in the small and smelly cell he shares with two other inmates. He told us politely he was doing fine and could not talk about his case. The prison director, Fred Maduro, used to work with Van Der Sloot’s father and knew Joran as a boy.
(on camera): Is it strange to see him in this environment?
FREDDY MADURO, ARUBA PRISON WARDEN: Yes, strange in a way, in another way, not, because of his temperament. When he doesn’t get his way, he gets very angry. I know that before, that already he was a very angry person. KOSINSKI: And did you see some of his temper here in prison? MADURO: In beginning, yes, with the policemen. But then, afterwards, the policemen really rough him up.
KOSINSKI (voice-over): And he says Van Der Sloot got into a fight with another inmate.
MADURO: and he kicked a guy, and then he kept kicking in the same place. So, Joran’s pretty big. So, but the guy is small, but smaller than he is. But the guy (INAUDIBLE) hit him in the eye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran, were you beat up in prison?
MADURO: Because general big, but this other streetfighter-the other guy is a streetfighter. It makes a difference.
KOSINSKI: Van Der Sloot must get up at 6:00 a.m., but spends most of his day outside his cell, watching TV, playing games, exercising. He can stay up until midnight, 1:00 on weekends. He has a TV in his cell. The warden says his parents have asked for more visiting time.
MADURO: No, not getting no extra visiting time.
KOSINSKI (on camera): How has he been now, since he’s been here for a couple weeks?
MADURO: Now he’s normal. He’s been normal now. He has no problems with no one. He has incorporated himself into the system. (END VIDEOTAPE)
KOSINSKI: Again, we did have permission to be there and to videotape.
And a judge acknowledged that we did have the authority to be there.
But, tonight, the prison director has been suspended from his job. And he is standing up for his actions. This is a man who has told us that he loves his job, and he believes that people should see things as they are and what the conditions are in the jail. There’s also been some misconceptions out there, that we were just going to take this video and then throw it out on the airwaves. Well, that’s not the case. We always have that discussion with our legal team, amongst ourselves, and we didn’t even have time to have a start to that discussion before Van Der Sloot’s attorneys were calling us and calling us into court-Amy.
ROBACH: Now, Michelle, we can’t see the video, but can you tell us a little more about your interaction, your conversation with Joran Van Der Sloot?
KOSINSKI: It was brief.
We approached his jail cell, and he was sitting there in a chair with his feet propped up. He was reading from a paperback book, and he looked up at us several times. And when we got close to him, he looked at us and he talked to us. He was very polite, very cordial. In fact, all of our questions, he answered. But they were very brief.
We basically asked him, how are you doing in there? Are you OK there? Are things all right for you here? He said yes, yes, I’m fine. Our producer also talked to him about a letter that he had written to his mother, some other things, connections that they had had. And he was very polite the entire time. He never tried to hide or anything like that.
ROBACH: Michelle Kosinski, reporting live for us from Aruba-thanks, Michelle.
Maduro Apologizes.....COSBY: And now to our other big story tonight, everybody. The controversy is building over our major LIVE AND DIRECT exclusive. The first video of the man we‘re going to show you here in a moment, Joran Van Der Sloot. He‘s the main suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. As you may know, our LIVE AND DIRECT cameras caught Joran behind bars, and we even spoke to him exclusively. But the images turned into an international incident, with more developments today. An Aruban court ruled that even though we didn‘t do anything wrong, we cannot broadcast that particular piece of video.
We sent NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski to the prison in the first place to interview Freddy Maduro. He is the prison warden there. Both joining me now live from Aruba.
Michelle, I know it‘s been very eventful the last 24 hours. Give us the reaction. I understand some headlines in the newspapers, too, Michelle.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there were a few in the local “Papiamento.” That‘s a local-language newspaper. One said, “Joran bites off the head of the prison director.” It was very bold language. Another headline screamed, “MSNBC fined one million florins,” which is not true. But then in tiny, tiny letters above that, it said, “if the video airs.”
There are all kinds of conversations going on right now between people, especially on the radio. The radio is one of the people‘s main sources of information on this island, as much as the local newspapers are. And we‘re hearing that the airwaves today are full of people commenting.
But a lot of the information out there is just not accurate. Initially, people thought that we snuck into the prison in some way or that we had a hidden camera or something like that. Then they found out that wasn‘t true. In fact, the judge stated explicitly in court that he didn‘t question our integrity and that we had the authority to be there.
Now people are saying, Well, they were just going to broadcast this without getting anyone‘s permission. Not true, either. In fact, we never just put video like that on the air. We didn‘t even have time to have a conversation about, Hey, we have this. We have the opportunity to get this. Do we air this? Let‘s talk to our legal team about it. Before we even had that conversation, his attorneys were calling us into court.
So there is some misinformation out there. And within the next few
days, we expect some of that to be settled just by getting the right facts
I mean, they‘re calling some of these things facts, but they‘re inaccurate.
COSBY: All right, Michelle. Well, we very much appreciate it. Let‘s move on, if we could, to the man who is standing next to you, the warden, Freddy Maduro. Freddy, first of all, what is the latest in terms of your job status? I hear that there may be some developments.
FREDDY MADURO, ARUBA PRISON WARDEN: Delays (ph) on the job status, I may say that I can‘t comment on that, please. That I cannot comment on that.
COSBY: I understand, Freddy, you might have been suspended, which I think, if that‘s the case, a lot of people will be outraged because I understand you stand by what you did, correct?
MADURO: Yes because I didn‘t—I think I didn‘t do anything wrong. I didn‘t kill anyone. I didn‘t—I didn‘t steal from anyone. I thought I did the right thing. But afterwards, it had a (INAUDIBLE) spinning (ph) -- a spinning effect in my direction. And I still don‘t know what really went wrong.
COSBY: Is your—you have been—I understand sort of the way it works under the Aruban system, you‘re just sort of put on leave. You‘re still—you‘re still being paid. You still have a job. But they‘re reviewing it, is that correct?
MADURO: I still have my job, yes. Yes. About the aspect of reviewing, I would rather abstain my comments.
COSBY: Are you surprised...
MADURO: It‘s a very touchy subject.
COSBY: Yes, and I bet. And you know, I want to just (INAUDIBLE) back you up. I know that our folks were there. They said that you were very commendable. Even the judge said that he didn‘t see anything wrong in the way that things were handled. And I understand, Freddy, that, you know, you do stand by your actions. You stand by giving us a tour. And you don‘t think did you anything wrong. And a lot of, you know, our folks who were there on the ground with you believe the same thing, correct?
MADURO: That‘s correct.
COSBY: What do you make of some of the sort of the discrepancies, you know, coming? You know, all of a sudden, Joran‘s family rushed to court. In fact, I want to show, if I could, a quote. This is actually from Anita Van Der Sloot, who is actually Joran‘s mother. She said this after the court hearing last night. She was pretty visceral in her comments just in general. “Joran has been outlawed, really outlawed. There‘s no protection for him in prison, and this should be a place when at least he should be safe,” making it sound like, you know, you just sort of left him open and vulnerable. That wasn‘t the case at all. That wasn‘t the intention of your bringing in the crew in at all, correct?
MADURO: That‘s correct. I had no ill intention of bringing the crew to the section of the youth—the youth section because beside the youth section, I also showed them—showed them, sorry—I also showed them the women‘s section, so just show them the new part of KIA (ph). I was proud to show them the new part of the KIA because you‘re busy renovating and expanding KIA, the Correctional Institute of Aruba.
COSBY: And again, Freddy, it‘s my understanding that he just happened to be there, Joran. Our crew happened to see him. There was no bad intentions on anyone‘s part, correct?
MADURO: That‘s correct. I believe so. That‘s correct, yes.
COSBY: Well, Freddy, we do appreciate you being with her, and I hope that your job is not going to be lost. I hope it‘s just a very temporary review. And we appreciate you talking with us tonight about the whole situation. Thank you very, very much.
MADURO: And...
KOSINSKI: Rita?
COSBY: Yes, go ahead.
MADURO: Yes. Could I say—could—oh...
COSBY: Yes. Go ahead. We still have you.
MADURO: No, it‘s gone.
COSBY: Michelle, go ahead, because we do have both of you up, if...
KOSINSKI: OK, great. Sorry, Rita. He found it to be very important that he wanted to apologize, actually, to a number of different people tonight. That was one of the reasons he wanted to talk to you tonight, and he agreed to do that. In fact, he told his bosses that that‘s one thing he wanted to do. And they said, Yes, that‘s a good idea. And that was very important for him to say tonight, so...
MADURO: I want to say that.
COSBY: Yes, absolutely. In fact, Michelle...
MADURO: Can I say that?
COSBY: ... please tell him to go ahead and say that.
MADURO: I don‘t hear anything.
MADURO: Can I say that?
KOSINSKI: Yes.
MADURO: OK. Firstly, I want to express my—my—how will you say? I want to apologize to the family Van Der Sloot. I had no ill intention of bringing the son, Joran Van Der Sloot, who‘s incarcerated in the correctional institute, to—no ill intention to make a breach on his freedom of privacy. I‘m sorry about that. Paul, I‘m really sorry, too, everything what happened that day.
To my boss, the minister of justice, Mrs. Rudy Croes, yes, I—I don‘t know what really went wrong. I know you are very angry, but I can repeat this, that I had no ill—no ill intention whatsoever to put you in a bad spot, nor KIA.
I would like to—just a few words to Minister (ph) President—
(INAUDIBLE) of Aruba and the cabinet. I apologize, and also to all the—my workers who sent—who sent—who called me for moral support. Thank you very much.
COSBY: And Mr. Maduro, I don‘t know if you can hear me or not, but I know everybody who‘s been watching heard you loud and clear and understands your sincerity. And from what everything our crew has said, they certainly agree that there was no malfeasance, no negligence, nothing done improper on your part. He just happened to be there in the cell, and things just happened. And we appreciate you being here and speaking out and also putting out your statement. Thank you, sir, very much.
And again, everybody, the Aruban court said that we could not show Joran talking to us from his cell. But he did speak to everybody soon afterwards in the court hearing. Remember that Michelle and everybody was a part of—we want to show—this is Joran Van Der Sloot‘s statement. “When I was sitting in my cell, I saw a cameraman, a sound man and two reporters”—those were our two reporters, Michelle and also our producer, Demomi Arakowa (ph). “I know they did not come there especially for me.” This is Joran‘s words. “The two ladies were let through the door to go inside by the warden, and I noticed that the reporters had audio recording devices with them.” And again, that is the statement for Joran Van Der Sloot, of course, commenting, and again saying that he saw the cameras and saw everything else, so basically supporting, indeed, what our reporter and our producer said, as well.
