Lively Case Discussion #671 8/1 - 8/2/2007

[2NJSons_Mom]

BEACH - see my post above. 

Thanks for clearing up the IP with Beachwego....my son had to use the computer for a bit.

[mrs. red]

Easy,
It's very true.  There would literally have to be 48 hours in a day for Natalee to have done all they claim she did... and quite frankly I don't care if she smoked crack or what she did... she did not deserve for Joran, Satish, and Deepak to murder her.  I will grant that it more likely than not was an accident, not pre-meditated but the endless cover-up and bashing of the victim makes me so mad.

I think drugging her was premeditated and that action led to her death directly or indirectly.  The cover-up compounds the situation, so I have no pity or mercy for these guys that used to prowl the tourist spots looking for game.

The pity is that even if they were convicted, they are not looking at much time.  I don’t even give much thought to these guys ever being punished in Aruba.  I just wish something of Natalee could be found and at least one person on that island would speak the truth.  Joran likes to run his mouth too much for him not to have told the whole story to someone.

All agreed, espeically red and bolded parts.  I also think that it's only a matter of time before it happens again from him.  Now he feels what he thinks is invinceability..... (sp?/)

[klaasend]

Dugga...does the picture have to have words under each picture?

It will always show the name of the file.  I suggest thinking before uploading.  If the name of the file is "too descriptive" copy it with a different name before uploading.

Also, if you upload a word document go into the properties and make sure you "real life" name is not there.  You can change it in the property area to say your SM Nickname and save it...PRIOR to uploading. 

Just a couple things to think about before uploading a photo or document from your PC.

[mrs. red]

Tyler...time to come back....I can do pictures....

Mere,
those are beautiful... I am going to email her a copy of your post.

[Mere]

Thanks Klaas....just printed your suggestions....and will see how that works....Mere

[Easywriter]

Easy,
It's very true.  There would literally have to be 48 hours in a day for Natalee to have done all they claim she did... and quite frankly I don't care if she smoked crack or what she did... she did not deserve for Joran, Satish, and Deepak to murder her.  I will grant that it more likely than not was an accident, not pre-meditated but the endless cover-up and bashing of the victim makes me so mad.

I think drugging her was premeditated and that action led to her death directly or indirectly.  The cover-up compounds the situation, so I have no pity or mercy for these guys that used to prowl the tourist spots looking for game.

The pity is that even if they were convicted, they are not looking at much time.  I don’t even give much thought to these guys ever being punished in Aruba.  I just wish something of Natalee could be found and at least one person on that island would speak the truth.  Joran likes to run his mouth too much for him not to have told the whole story to someone.

All agreed, espeically red and bolded parts.  I also think that it's only a matter of time before it happens again from him.  Now he feels what he thinks is invinceability..... (sp?/)

Yes he does and he shows a smug almost proud attitude when talking to reporters.  He would love to tell the story and then snub his nose at the rest of the world.

[2NJSons_Mom]

San?

[mrs. red]

Easy,
O/T... did you listen to Wendy Murphy?  I had a phone call and couldn't... have to do that later, but did she talk about the case where the judge wouldn't allow the word rape?

[2NJSons_Mom]

I can't help remembering how Joran looked into the cameras while in police custody.  He seemed to stare at the camera with a smirk, almost like he was saying to someone that he was some bigshot...cocky....

[mrs. red]

I can't help remembering how Joran looked into the cameras while in police custody.  He seemed to stare at the camera with a smirk, almost like he was saying to someone that he was some bigshot...cocky....

I agree... and didn't he talk up his exploits to the blonde NE reporter? Does anyone remember that??? more stuff we should go back over now...

[Auntiem]

  Good morning, everyone,  very lazy today, just reading up now, trying to catch up to see where you all are!!  

    Oh, the tale of the handsome guy coming along the beach after Joran left Natalee is just that..a story......in any case....what did Mr. Handsome guy do with Natalee?  The same "mystery" prevails..... she vanished...
  except, wasn't she found briefly?  wasn't heavy battery determined and an official  announcement made that Natalee Holloway had been found?  Only to be quicly retracted?  The only ones not dealing with "reality" are the Arubans.......only lies and deceit!!

[klaasend]

Actual footage of the bridge collapsing:

[2NJSons_Mom]

I can't help remembering how Joran looked into the cameras while in police custody.  He seemed to stare at the camera with a smirk, almost like he was saying to someone that he was some bigshot...cocky....

I agree... and didn't he talk up his exploits to the blonde NE reporter? Does anyone remember that??? more stuff we should go back over now...

Oh, I had forgotten about her....yes, could use a refresher on that...

[crazybabyborg]

(trying out the font size within a post...hehehe)

Now HERE is something we can discuss today...FROM FOB....nomdeguerre wrote:  
Skye, I do believe the first line of the title, though not the second.  I do believe that Beth loves Natalee.  I always have.  Sure, she made some mistakes, but every parent does. 

I also believe it is entirely possible that she arrived on Aruba believing the stories she told about Natalee.  Natalee HAD accomplished a lot in her young life, and it is possible that her mother thought she didn't drink, had never had sex, etc.  If Beth had walked into Carlos 'n Charlie's at midnight on the night Natalee disappeared and seen her letting boys take jello shots off her on the bar, I wouldn't have been surprised if Beth had had a heart attack. 

Where I part company with Beth is that there is a lot of information out there that Natalee engaged in risky behavior while she was on Aruba.  As I have posted over and over and over again, that didn't make Natalee a terrible person, but it certainly exposed her to danger.  Kids die of alcohol poisoning.  Certainly they can die of a combination of alcohol and drugs, and there are "statements" (plural) that Natalee was seen with drugs in her possession.  Suppose Joran did leave her alone on Malmok Beach as he says he did.  Certainly he should not have done it, and that is one thing he has never denied.  But suppose that as Natalee was walking back to the Holiday Inn, she passed a good-looking guy coming from the direction of Moomba's who said, "Hey, pretty lady, why the sad look?  How about I buy you a drink," and she went off with him.  She had already left a bar that night with three men she did not know.  What reason is there to think she wouldn't have taken him up on it?

Beth seems totally committed to the idea that Joran and the Kalpoes "kidnapped, raped, and killed" Natalee.  She has said as much, in plain English, over and over on television.  Those three young guys were separated and questioned for weeks using interrogation techniques that would not have been allowed in this country.  Deepak's car was ripped apart, and pieces of the upholstery were sent both to the Netherlands Forensic Institute and the FBI for testing.  The vacuum cleaner was seized from the Van der Sloot home during the FIRST search in June 2005.  The KLPD tore up the concrete around the Van der Sloot's pool.  All without apparently finding any evidence that they harmed Natalee, else they would be in jail right now.
Comes a time when you have to ask yourself, "So far as Beth is concerned, is this really about finding justice for Natalee?"  Because that is surely going to involve considering every possibility, some of them embarrassing and unpleasant.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HUH.......tore up the concrete??? WHEN? I had not heard that, nor had I heard about them taking a VAC from the home...this is BS.

Somebody ask this poster why Deepak was washing his car in the wee hours of the morning? Somebody ask this poster why the story just relayed wasn't the original one, but evolved after the 3 spent time in jail WITH the accused Security Guards they implicated? Somebody ask this poster why Deepak said to Joran that if they find the girl, they'll see that sh-t? And follow those questions with more questions, such as why Joran has had such a difficult time knowing who picked him up at the beach after he innocently left Natalee there! Deepak and Satish aren't twins! Be sure not to leave out this question: They told police on day 1 that Natalee had been returned to the HI, hit her head, and was approached by 2 black Security Guards. If they didn't KNOW she was dead, weren't they just a little concerned that when she emerged from her "tryst" unharmed, that ALE would KNOW they had been lying to them?

[mrs. red]

I need to use spell check.

Klaas,
that is amazing... looks like a demolition almost. 

[San]

San?

How did you know I was wearing my T-Shirt

[San]

 Good morning, everyone,  very lazy today, just reading up now, trying to catch up to see where you all are!!  

    Oh, the tale of the handsome guy coming along the beach after Joran left Natalee is just that..a story......in any case....what did Mr. Handsome guy do with Natalee?  The same "mystery" prevails..... she vanished...
  except, wasn't she found briefly?  wasn't heavy battery determined and an official  announcement made that Natalee Holloway had been found?  Only to be quicly retracted?  The only ones not dealing with "reality" are the Arubans.......only lies and deceit!!

I agree Auntiem.  How will Aruba explain how they determined what the charges would be  against Guido and Paulus.

[Auntiem]

Just said on FOX that they are investigating the collapse of bridge.  Said "a bridge in America, should just not fall down"!

[crazybabyborg]

 Good morning, everyone,  very lazy today, just reading up now, trying to catch up to see where you all are!!  

    Oh, the tale of the handsome guy coming along the beach after Joran left Natalee is just that..a story......in any case....what did Mr. Handsome guy do with Natalee?  The same "mystery" prevails..... she vanished...
  except, wasn't she found briefly?  wasn't heavy battery determined and an official  announcement made that Natalee Holloway had been found?  Only to be quicly retracted?  The only ones not dealing with "reality" are the Arubans.......only lies and deceit!!

I agree Auntiem.  How will Aruba explain how they determined what the charges would be  against Guido and Paulus.

Great question!

[Auntiem]

BECAUSE THEY SAW THE BODY!!!!!