Natalee Case Discussion #684 10/3 - 10/7/2007

[Buckeye]

More from dugo when questioned at RU:

question

Wouldn't the "interested party" have to have some witnesses though in order to prove there is a complaint? Or does the attorney just present a document to the court and the court asks questions of the opposing party to determine whether there should be an Article 12?

If you wouldn't mind could you explain the entire procedure? TIA

dugo
Interested party files a written complaint (klaagschrift), then the attorney general (advocaat-generaal) gives a written report on wether or not the complaint has any grounds (does the complaining party have an actual interest etc..) and wether or not to reject the complaint. The the court (het hof) considers the facts and circumstances presented and makes a decision. The court either rejects the complaint (Het hof wijst het beklag af) or forces the prosecution to prosecute the matter (Het hof wijst het beklag toe).

Just want to get this posted, in case it does happen.  Otherwise, I'll never find it again. 

[NYC_lover]

NYC_lover

Thanks for the real deal.

Wonder if they will attempt prosecution, to avoid this.  Do you have any idea how
prelevant these cases are?

This all is not easy to tell, it is one the judge for to tell, in that situation. But I know, when there is no evidence to the suspects in a case, then there is acquittal, by then court and also by the Supreme Court of the state of the The Netherlands. When the public prosecutor have no evidence to show in the court, to the judge, then I am sure there is come acquittal. Because a public prosecutor must make and have hard evidence for to show the judge, for to get an sentence/conviction.

[Buckeye]

Wonder if they will attempt prosecution, to avoid this.

That's what i was just thinking -all these delays - must be for a reason.

Dugo's latest appears to present a scenerio where if Pros. Lugo ices the case, then the interested party would appeal to AG Jorg. Who would then give an opinion on the interested party's position, and present it to the judges, who would then force a prosecution - or not. My question would be...which judges? Aruba, Curacao...or the motherland?

I'm not sure, either.  Wouldn't the first call, to prosecute fall to Lugo/Jorg.  Can these two actually be separated? Isn't that the same office...so the appeal would go to a court of some sort.  How can you appeal to the same office that ruled not to prosecute?  Lugo isn't independent, is she??

[Buckeye]

It would make sense that the appeal is made with some court and then Jorg (as AG) is given a chance to respond to the complaint (against his staff).  Then some judge decides if the complaint is valid and either orders Jorg to prosecute or dismisses the case.

Since this makes sense, I'm probably way off base. 

[dennisintn]

if they have a choice, holland is the only way to go.  curacao and aruba are hooked at the hip in a lot more ways than one.  partners in crime, so to speak.
dennisintn

[Buckeye]

if they have a choice, holland is the only way to go.  curacao and aruba are hooked at the hip in a lot more ways than one.  partners in crime, so to speak.
dennisintn

Now that I believe.  They even seem to have the same web designer and content when searching for stuff.

[Rob]

My belief all along has been the Hague is there to handle the corruption. Not only in the Kingdom, but in atrocities such as Rwanda.

I also believe that the Hague does not like to prosecute those case, but acts as a back up in the event that Justice is not able to be reached or carried out in the home country or was denied in a corrupt system.

Unfortunately Aruba is part of the Kingdom and part of the corruption. Something they have been aware of for over two years. In fact the Hague and those in charge have been aware of the problem in Aruba for over a decade.

As Beth said - 'Someone is lobbying for Joran in the Hague. There has to be'...paraphrased.

 

[igsigs]

Wouldn't the first call, to prosecute fall to Lugo/Jorg.  Can these two actually be separated?

Not realistically, IMO. Everything is connected in Aruba as far as i can see...and that's the problem. But i am sure they can shuffle some papers and file some paperwork that gives the appearance of separation. I think that's how they do it.

[Buckeye]

Is Nico Jorg responsible for this investigation?  Does he direct Lugo's actions?  The KLPD report (that Rudi Croes asked for) was delivered to Nico Jorg (AG), according to an article in Amigo (long ago), before they returned to the island.

[igsigs]

Is Nico Jorg responsible for this investigation?  Does he direct Lugo's actions?  The KLPD report (that Rudi Croes asked for) was delivered to Nico Jorg (AG), according to an article in Amigo (long ago), before they returned to the island.

The mess between KJ and AG Croes in June 05 tells me that the Pros does not have to take orders from the AG once the case is assigned. But i would not be surprised if Lugo/Jorg are working together on this...in some sort of equal partnership. Jorg was involved in the Paulus compensation case.

[Buckeye]

Is Nico Jorg responsible for this investigation?  Does he direct Lugo's actions?  The KLPD report (that Rudi Croes asked for) was delivered to Nico Jorg (AG), according to an article in Amigo (long ago), before they returned to the island.

The mess between KJ and AG Croes in June 05 tells me that the Pros does not have to take orders from the AG once the case is assigned. But i would not be surprised if Lugo/Jorg are working together on this...in some sort of equal partnership. Jorg was involved in the Paulus compensation case.

Well, I think there is more than one prosecutor on the island.  Does the AG appoint the one to a certain case??

[Buckeye]

Radio interview by Beth in Michigan.  Intro is a little rough.

http://www.wjr.com/Article.asp?id=488337&spid=6521

[Tamikosmom]

Aruba claims in correspondence to Alabama Governor Bob Riley that the parents of Natalee Holloway need to pursue the Dutch administration which appoints the prosecutor ... if there are concerns with the investigation.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++


Dave Holloway
Scarborough Country
November 7, 2005

Scarborough: Another strange twist in the Holloway story tonight. Aruba authorities have sent a letter to Alabama Governor Bob Riley that may make a new investigation even harder to move forward with.

The letter says in part:

“The chief prosecutor leading the investigation and the General Prosecutor are appointed by the Kingdom Government in the Hague. Because of separation of powers, the government of Aruba has no authority to intervene in the investigation.”

Dept. of Foreign Affairs, Nov. 4
Source: Dept of Foreign Affairs, Aruba

Scarborough: After all these months you and your family have been suffering, you find out that the Aruba authorities claim they have absolutely no say in this investigation?
Where do you go from here?

Holloway: Well, that’s really unbelievable that they take the wash their hands approach. We’re going to proceed on with The Hague, I guess. Also, our six page letter we were asked to provide to the Attorney General and we provided a carbon copy to the PM and Condoleezza Rice. We have not heard a response to that letter yet.

Scarborough: Dave, I’ve been asking the question for months on people down on the ground down in Aruba who has the power to run this investigation? Who has the power to hire? Who has the power to fire? Who has the power to subpoena? Nobody seems to know. This really does look like a banana republic down there. Anytime anyone gets cornered down there, they just point the finger across the Atlantic.

Holloway: Well, that seems to be the case. We’ve been running around in circles for five months now. When we reduce it down to writing, they put it back in writing and it’s obvious they are pointing the finger somewhere else now.


Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 9, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, the idea of the boycott and Governor Riley how did this come about?

TWITTY: You know, Greta, I was thinking about that. Aruba really has made us evolve to this position because, you know, what Aruba and The Hague have done to us is they've been dishonest from the beginning. If they would just have been forthcoming from the beginning to lead us to the proper authorities we would never be in this position right now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you identify one particular person, if we could sort of chisel away and find out who it is that we need to get to, to get information, so that we can sort of break this log jam who is that person?

TWITTY: Well, I think that's the $64 question and now we've got Aruba playing the blame game with The Hague. I mean I thought only the suspects were doing the blame game. It looks like Aruba and The Hague now are playing the blame game, Greta. It's hard to tell.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right and just so that the viewers, I understand what you're talking about, you got a letter in which it explained what the Arubans said to you that The Hague has been calling the shots, is that right, in the investigation?

TWITTY: Yes, they're saying, in the letter it states that the Aruban government has no authority to intervene in the investigation. Now then why have we been running around on the island submitting written and verbal requests for help from the governor, from the minister of justice, the prime minister? I mean the list is endless, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there, I mean like where is most of your frustration? Is it directed at a particular person? I mean I know that fundamentally that you want information about your daughter. Every parent wants that. But is there someone who you think is standing in the way more than another?

TWITTY: I don't think it's someone. I think it's something. I think it's the dishonesty that has been coming out of that island since May 31st and all we have wanted for them to be as honest with us and be forthcoming and tell us and lead us in the proper direction. That's all we've asked. That's all we've asked of them.

[igsigs]

Well, I think there is more than one prosecutor on the island.  Does the AG appoint the one to a certain case??

I don't know...something tells me that TF Croes -did not- assign the NH case to KJ. IIRC, she was out of the country at the time. Maybe Rudy? Paulus? 

[klaasend]

Radio interview by Beth in Michigan.  Intro is a little rough.

http://www.wjr.com/Article.asp?id=488337&spid=6521

I've saved the audio and may either put it in photobucket or youtube as well.

[Sue]

Is there any word whether the Kalpoes turned over all their
documents ordered by california court??

[klaasend]

Is there any word whether the Kalpoes turned over all their
documents ordered by california court??

Not that we have heard.  The deadline has passed though.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Is there any word whether the Kalpoes turned over all their
documents ordered by california court??

 Not that I have read.. of course I am lost anymore.
 Those 2 would probably prefer to wipe thier ass with a cactus plant before they would ever turn over docs. IMO   

[Sue]

Is there any word whether the Kalpoes turned over all their
documents ordered by california court??

 Not that I have read.. of course I am lost anymore.
 Those 2 would probably prefer to wipe thier ass with a cactus plant before they would ever turn over docs. IMO   

OMG how funny almost choked on a piece of pizza reading that

[klaasend]

Here's that radio interview Beth did on October 4th in Michigan.  It's about 7 minutes long:

Click on the photo