Natalee Case Discussion #680 8/31 - 9/16/2007

[crazybabyborg]

One step further:
ALL 4 have some culpability or at least 1 of them would have stepped forward to expose the LIES.

It might be  father's instinct to protect his son, but yes, Wreck, that would make Paulus guilty of accessory at the very least.

[sb]

Hi everyone,

I AM SMELLING A RAT HERE WITH THESE MADELEINE REPORTS

I see this as another JonBenet deal, blame the parents and coverup for the real perps. Evidence planting in that situation would be SO easy in a foreign country like that, the parents could be framed in a heartbeat and never know what hit them.

We could so easily be RIGHT HERE with Natalee... SO EASILY... except that Beth was not IN Aruba when it all went down. They have tried to do the blame-the-family thing for an alleged "runaway" scenario, or for sensationalizing the case, or for the old standby "insurance scam", but it has never gained too much traction. Except amongst the crazies out there.

[wreck]

One step further:
ALL 4 have some culpability or at least 1 of them would have stepped forward to expose the LIES.

It might be  father's instinct to protect his son, but yes, Wreck, that would make Paulus guilty of accessory at the very least.

EXACTLY! If they are not guilty of the original crime -- they are at least guilty of covering up for the others -- thus, "culpability".

[crazybabyborg]

I know this is vigilantism, but if my son had disappeared under similar circumstances, I know that my purpose in life would be to get Joran in an empty room with a great Big Bubba, so I could ask some questions and pursuade him to answer.

That doesn't speak well of me, but I would choose prison over letting them get away with treating his death at their hands, like throwing away a dirty Kleenex.

[wreck]

culpability = "meriting condemnation or blame especially as wrong or harmful"

[crazybabyborg]

Hi SB! There's a news link posted in the Missing Person's thread dated Sept. 6, 2007 that you might be interested in. It agrees that the results are not back.

[Frank]

Crazy,

I think it speaks very well of you. Very natural. If we were a tribe, they would be long dead, or if we were a garden they would be be gone.

[crazybabyborg]

Crazy,

I think it speaks very well of you. Very natural. If we were a tribe, they would be long dead, or if we were a garden they would be be gone.

Yes they would be gone. And if I were on the jury of someone who responded that way, I could not convict.

[Anna]

Yes, overtly lying in a matter of life and death is not acceptable behavior no matter how lame the legal system might be.

[Anna]

One step further:
ALL 4 have some culpability or at least 1 of them would have stepped forward to expose the LIES.

It might be  father's instinct to protect his son, but yes, Wreck, that would make Paulus guilty of accessory at the very least.

EXACTLY! If they are not guilty of the original crime -- they are at least guilty of covering up for the others -- thus, "culpability".

If we knew two of the three prime suspects to be telling the truth, it would normally mean that the third was lying.

These suspects are different in that they all seem to be lying and thus the culpability factor.

[crazybabyborg]

That's what has become interesting, Anna. They do seem to be all lying, but it's not the same lie. Therein lies a HUGE opportunity to solve this case, IMO. At the point that the suspects' story is directly conflicting, effective interrogation can bring forth the truth. It's at that point that there is leverage to drive a threatening wedge between those who know what happened. I am livid that the Dutch have not confronted, seperately, these three with the lies.

[Anna]

Why did Karin Janssen plant the seeds in our minds that this horrific crime had been committed and then just nothing done about it?

Did Nelson explain to her how Aruba has bills to pay and can't default on the payments on that dock and all those hotel buildings on an international banking loan or what happened?

We hear premeditated murder, heavy battery and then no evidence of any crime having been committed.  It doesn't make any sense.

[Anna]

Hi everyone,

I AM SMELLING A RAT HERE WITH THESE MADELEINE REPORTS

I see this as another JonBenet deal, blame the parents and coverup for the real perps. Evidence planting in that situation would be SO easy in a foreign country like that, the parents could be framed in a heartbeat and never know what hit them.

We could so easily be RIGHT HERE with Natalee... SO EASILY... except that Beth was not IN Aruba when it all went down. They have tried to do the blame-the-family thing for an alleged "runaway" scenario, or for sensationalizing the case, or for the old standby "insurance scam", but it has never gained too much traction. Except amongst the crazies out there.

SB,
I have not followed this case closely.  Just can't lose my heart again.  But I did think this little girl just might still be alive.  At the least, this seems to say otherwise.

Am waiting on some official statement as you say.

[Anna]

Joran:  Satish picked me up.
Deepak:  Joran walked home.
Satish:  I was asleep and know nothing.

[crazybabyborg]

Why did Karin Janssen plant the seeds in our minds that this horrific crime had been committed and then just nothing done about it?

Did Nelson explain to her how Aruba has bills to pay and can't default on the payments on that dock and all those hotel buildings on an international banking loan or what happened?

We hear premeditated murder, heavy battery and then no evidence of any crime having been committed.  It doesn't make any sense.

No sense at all, Anna. To me, there is the canvas of "tourism" blanketing everything in this case, and their choices to protect tourism is ludicrus! Unfortunately, crime does happen EVERYWHERE. The defining difference is in the response to a crime when it occurs. How long would Natalee Holloway have been in the news if ALE had simply followed the investigation wherever and to whomever it honestly led? The effect on tourism would not have been a blip on the radar.

Even now, they have a choice, and if their track record holds true, they will, again, choose stupidly. If they think they can manipulate things to close this case as a mystery to protect their tourism, I hope they are listening. NO REVEALED CIRCUMSTANCES IN THIS CASE IS AS BAD AS NOT SOLVING IT AND BRINGING TO JUSTICE THOSE WHO ARE GUILTY. For Aruba, for Natalee's family, for what's right, bring the truth forward by peeling away the layers of corruption and exposing them to the light of day. Show the world that when all goes wrong, you WILL right it.

[Kiwi]

Klass, you make an excellent point about how the boat could have been loaded...very simply..."simple" is usually the best way, too.

Like the Gottenbos boat for instance:   

get back to the boat angle, The trap has to be large enough to hold a person. Visually I think of the lobster or larger traps. If so they usually have winches or the stern is totally open. Those boats get extremely marked up. So if they used a nice boat like the one above then they may even have got injured in the handling and securing of the trap. Did Joran have any bruises?

[Observer]

Klass, you make an excellent point about how the boat could have been loaded...very simply..."simple" is usually the best way, too.

Like the Gottenbos boat for instance:   

get back to the boat angle, The trap has to be large enough to hold a person. Visually I think of the lobster or larger traps. If so they usually have winches or the stern is totally open. Those boats get extremely marked up. So if they used a nice boat like the one above then they may even have got injured in the handling and securing of the trap. Did Joran have any bruises?

Joran was rumored to have a bruise on his face and Guido with scratches. Not 100%sure but I believe some of the traps fold up which would give them more room and not be so obvious if they were seen.

[Leslie]

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Aruba Today
http://www.arubatoday.com/
24ora
http://www.24ora.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

[robots]

I know this is vigilantism, but if my son had disappeared under similar circumstances, I know that my purpose in life would be to get Joran in an empty room with a great Big Bubba, so I could ask some questions and pursuade him to answer.

That doesn't speak well of me, but I would choose prison over letting them get away with treating his death at their hands, like throwing away a dirty Kleenex.

same here

[Kermit]

Klass, you make an excellent point about how the boat could have been loaded...very simply..."simple" is usually the best way, too.

Like the Gottenbos boat for instance:   

get back to the boat angle, The trap has to be large enough to hold a person. Visually I think of the lobster or larger traps. If so they usually have winches or the stern is totally open. Those boats get extremely marked up. So if they used a nice boat like the one above then they may even have got injured in the handling and securing of the trap. Did Joran have any bruises?

Several additional witnesses have claimed that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT had noticeable bruising readily apparent on his face on 5-30-05,
http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html