Natalee Case Discussion #680 8/31 - 9/16/2007

[klaasend]

Hi gang.  Any one else see this strange little post or know this poster?

http://sophece.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!1BCFD59AF9A33A63!214.entry

Nope - but I'm not sure she's playing with a full deck 

[anidac]

Hi gang.  Any one else see this strange little post or know this poster?

http://sophece.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!1BCFD59AF9A33A63!214.entry

Nope - but I'm not sure she's playing with a full deck 

You got that right!

[igsigs]

Nope - but I'm not sure she's playing with a full deck 

Which is not all bad news! Her offerings show that she is fully qualified to be an Aruban journalist...editor even.  

[igsigs]

FierlJepper is on the right track.

Joran's computer and cell records are a confession.  

[Tamikosmom]

Posted today at Scrux:


FierlJepper

Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Netherlands
 Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject:   

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
<snipped>

There is the persisting rumor that PvdS picked up Joran (or went out with the car) around 4:00AM that night.

<snipped>  
 

FierlJepper is unaware ... the 4:00 AM pickup was never a rumor.  Beth Twitty claimed the Paulus stated that he picked up "them" at 4:00 AM on the morning that Natalee went missing and ... the Superior court confirmed that Paulus declared that he picked up Joran and Natalee on the morning of May 30, 2005.

Janet


Beth Twitty
NANCY GRACE
August 12, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Oh -- oh, it`s a very critical detail. And the night that we arrived on the island -- you know, Jug does not misinterpret a 4:00 AM time pickup to 11:00 PM. I mean, Paulus Van Der Sloot stated that he picked them up up at 4:00 AM on May the 30th. Then -- we don`t know who they were, but then even as far as June 16 and June 17, Mr. Van Der Sloot was still stating this 4:00 AM pickup. Only until around -- maybe it was when he was picked up or arrested did he change it to 11:00 PM that I had knowledge of.



Superior Court
January, 2007

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The taped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”

[wreck]

Hi gang.  Any one else see this strange little post or know this poster?

http://sophece.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!1BCFD59AF9A33A63!214.entry

Nope - but I'm not sure she's playing with a full deck 

You got that right!

"Smells feeling" to me two! 

[Anna]

I don't believe the cover up is because they are Dutch.  They tried to do the same thing exactly with the Max DeVries disappearance and the prime suspect was American in that instance, not Dutch.

Oduber is the one with the big bills to pay and the international loans to default on.  He is the one saying there can be no scandal involving a tourist. 

And he has made it clear before that there just can be nothing to harm the tourism industry.  It's about money, not loyalty.

IMO
.

[wreck]

I don't believe the cover up is because they are Dutch.  They tried to do the same thing exactly with the Max DeVries disappearance and the prime suspect was American in that instance, not Dutch.

Oduber is the one with the big bills to pay and the international loans to default on.  He is the one saying there can be no scandal involving a tourist. 

And he has made it clear before that there just can be nothing to harm the tourism industry.  It's about money, not loyalty.

IMO
.

yup! But being "Dutch" certainly doesn't hurt!

[Anna]

For sure, it doesn't hurt to be Dutch!  But they will do it anyway whether the suspect is Dutch or not.

No scandals where tourism is concerned allowed!  The national economy is depending on that.

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/8/

I have not been posting about this, but FYI - there is a big scandal on Aruba they're calling "RIJBEWIJS GATE" (rijbewijs = drivers license). Apparently a big case involving production of fake licenses. I think the case was in court yesterday.

* * *

Not sure what happened here. Sounds like an American tourist at a highrise reported that her companion didn't come back from C&C's and asked police to search for him. Subsequently he was found at a choller house.

POLIS A SACA UN MERICANO FOR DI UN CHOLLERHOUSE
 
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Poco dia pasa tabata tin informe ta circula den exterior relaciona cu uso di droga riba nos Isla. E informe aki lo por tin cierto consecuencia pa den futuro cercano ricibi turista cu lo ta adicto na droga. Ya caba a registra un caso na unda polis a worde notifica pa busca un homber di 50 aña naci na merca di inicialnan R.S.P.

Tabata den transcurso di 11:50’or cu a drenta informe na Central di polis cu ta solicita presencia di un patruya na un Highrise Hotel. Na yegada, polis a papia cu un señora di inicial P. E señora P. hopi preocupa a declara na e agentenan cu su caso mainta trempan a presenta riba dje y a bise cu e mester di 170 Dollar pa paga un homber cu tin su prendanan.

Tambe e señora a splica polis cu e dia anterior nan a bay Carlos ‘n Charlie’s y e homber R.S.P. a keda atras.

Awor loke e señora P. ta solicita si e agentenan por investiga e caso lo por logra localiza e homber Mericano aki. Polisnan despues di a tuma mas detaye y descripcion for di e señora P. pa asina nan por extende e buskeda cu lo demas unidadnan.

Despues di un buskeda extensivo, den Ranchostraat polisnan a logra localiza e Mericano den un choller house den compania cu otro chollernan.

Polisnan a scual tanto e chollernan y tambe e homber Mericano formalmente riba su comportacion.
Patruya a transporta e Mericano pa hotel y entrega sano y salvo den man di señora P. No tabata tin informe adicional si e mericano a recupera su prendanan of ta pa ‘choll’ e tabata tin mester di e 170 Dollar.

Online Pap translation:

police owing to saca one mericano for of one chollerhouse

oranjestad (aan): some day happen was have informe is circula in exterior relaciona cu usage of drugs on we island. the informe here will can have cierto consecuencia for in future cercano ricibi tourist cu will is adicto at drugs. already end owing to registra one caso at where police owing to worde notifica for busca one man of 50 year naci at merca of inicialnan r.s.p.

was in transcurso of 11:50’or cu owing to enter informe at central of police cu is solicita presencia of one patrol at one highrise hotel. at arrival, police owing to talk cu one madam of inicial P. the madam P. much preocupa owing to declara at the agentenan cu his caso morning trempan owing to present on dje y owing to bise cu the have to of 170 dollar for pay one man cu have his prendanan.

also the madam owing to splica police cu the day anterior they owing to bay carlos ‘n charlie’s y he r.s.p. owing to stay behind.

now thing the madam P. is solicita if the agentenan can investiga the caso will can succeed localiza he mericano here. polisnan after of did take more detaye y descripcion for of the madam therefore. for so they can extende the buskeda cu will other unidadnan.

after of one buskeda extensivo, in ranchostraat polisnan owing to succeed localiza the mericano in one choller house in compania cu another chollernan.

polisnan owing to scual tanto the chollernan y also he mericano formalmente on his comportacion.

patrol owing to transporta the mericano for hotel y entrega sano y salvo in hand of madam therefore. not was have informe adicional if the mericano owing to recupera his prendanan or is for ‘choll’ the was have have to of the 170 dollar.

[greeneyedlady]

Klaas,
a poster that is not a member here but reads here and posts elsewhere asked me to foward this re: the post by FierlJepper posted @ Scrux-any thoughts on her comment below?

Klaas wrote -


Quote from FierlJepper:
Joran's 29/5 visit to Hotmail at 22:33 and his reported home arrival time at 23:15 keeps bothering me. Joran confirms in his book (p81) that he was behind the VDS computer to print out some papers for school. It's therefore very logical that you then also quickly visit hotmail.

Assuming that Joran's phone records (that he most certainly will possess and on which he has based his book), show that he indeed called his father (to pick him up at MD) and Deepak (to give him a ride to CnC) around 23:00, these facts then would indicate that the 22:33 hotmail visit must be wrong by an hour. If this is indeed the case, then you could postulate that the investigators have made a systemic error and all reported Internet Explorer times are one hour wrong. Since MSN is a dedicated program, the timing for that could be correct (and is probably reconciled with Deepak's computer records).

There is the persisting rumor that PvdS picked up Joran (or went out with the car) around 4:00AM that night. This could fit with the scenario that Joran walked home, arrived around 03:13-ish, woke up his father and explained what happened. The noise of Joran and his father talking (maybe arguing) woke up Val. He got out of bed and was told to shut up and let them speak privately. He then decided to switch on the computer and visit his favorite plane site. The father (+Joran?) then went out to pick up the temporarily hidden body of Natalee (Val doesn't know the real reason). The next day the body was disposed off somewhere on the island (e.g. the landfill).
[snipped]


Why would Joran need papers for school?  It is my understanding that Monday and Tuesday were attendance optional.  Practice tests at best for the 'finals' the following week. 

I believe Joran 'aced' his real tests.  I do not believe the 'real' tests were on Monday or Tuesday when Natalee disappeared.  Read carefully, I do not believe that anyone says he aced the tests on Monday.

I also believe there was a class/test schedule for graduating seniors that said the same thing.

I believe the brothers did have to attend class on Monday.

Did other students need papers for school? 

I also recall reading somewhere, and I don't have it handy, I think it was a Beth interview...that some MB students saw Joran at about 11:00 p.m. around C&C, and offered him a ride back to the hotel.  I think this was an interview where she used the word 'rape'.

[MumInOhio]

Good morning!   GEL - What Beth stated is on page 3 of this thread, posted by Karma, interview with Nancy Grace.

[greeneyedlady]

Thanks, Mum! Will go read.

[MumInOhio]

You're welcome.

[Observer]

Just looking back at what Jossy told us about the Rock Painting..


Dana Pretzer June 18 Jossy Interview TRANSCRIPT

NOT VERBATIM NOT COMPLETE

Dana Pretzer with Jossy Mansur June 18, 2006
Because of problem with streaming I'm picking this up in progress.

Dana:

What can you tell us about the rock painting

Jossy;

...a year before the Natalee disappearance, they haven't been able to identify him, the body belongs to a Columbian boy whose parents are illegal, they didn't want to come forward and didn't have money to come forward. The ppl in the video ,our reporters have identifed members of the visiblity team. One of the ppl belongs to the technical team of the police...

I don't know their names, but they were with the visibility teams which is supposed to take care of the security of tourists at the hotels and the beaches

Dane:

What are those paintings all about

Jossy

It's to mark the spot, we were also told that part of the body was missing, they would come back later to search, What bothers us is near the rock painting was found the belt which was extremely similar to the belt that Joran used around the neck of his friend.. CLose to the rock Dave went with a friend by there, they saw a police car with the trunk open as though they were puting somethin in it. It bothers me those two facts.

Dana:

It just adds to the bizarresness of the whole case. One question, I've seen photos, you mention the belt, you mention DAve, back on July 25, 2005 I see pictures that a park ranger picks up fabric and it looks to me similar fabric to a top that Natalee was wearing, But we were told it was fish net, but if you look at the picture it looks like her top for sure.

JossY

It does look very familiar to what she was wearing, but I'm unable to confrim it, we would have to go search for the fabric itself which has disappeared since. Every piece of evidence or what appears to be evidence has disappeared or we never heard about it again
Dana

Any forensic work done on any of the evidence which you say has disappeared.

Jossy;

It was given to the authorities and it must have been sent to Holland I guess... but just like those bags full of material from Joran's apartment we didn't hear anything more about it.

[Observer]

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/03/preferential-treatment-part-1-2.html

Beth Twitty On the Record w/ Greta - Oct. 2/05


HOLLOWAY TWITTY: I think I just saw specific little details that just have started eating me alive just, I mean, from details of that first night, when we met Joran and Paul and Deepak, you know, just little details that have been eating away at me on this pick-up time at McDonald's, you know, Paul van der Sloot stated specifically and emphatically he picked them up at 4 a.m. I have it documented in my journal too many times to know that...

Investigator Roy Tromp confirmed that Paulus changed his story. Jug could not understand why statements were not immediately obtained from all witnesses who were present on that morning that would have all reflected the 4:00 am pickup time.

On June 5/05 Beth requested that security cameras from McDonalds be checked. As of Dec. 12/05 Aruban authorities had yet to comply with her request.


HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Yes, 4 a.m. on May 31, he stated — I documented in my journal — that he stated to the police spokesperson that he picked Joran up at 4 a.m. Again, on June 17, I have it documented in my journal that they were going to question Paul that day about the 4 a.m. pick-up. And then it changed. That's why I was so shocked that day that you and I went to his home. That was the first time that he had changed to it 11 p.m., to the 29th. So that's just one example of many little details that are just driving me crazy now that I'm back home.

Roy Tromp 48 Hours Interview - Aug. 5/05


Tromp, who declined to provide details about exactly what investigators believe happened to Holloway, said that Paul van der Sloot has also changed his account the night Holloway vanished. "Why should you do that if you are telling the truth?" he said.

Claudio Eldridge Letter from Benvinda de Souza to Karen Jansen - June 23/05


"Also understood by Claudio is that Mr. Van Der Sloot said that he picked up Joran around 4:00 am close to McDonald’s." Translation Credit - Arubagirl



Paulus Van der Sloot Official Witness Statement - June 18, 2005


On May 30th 2005, in the nightly hours, I did not pick up Joran from anywhere. I slept solidly through the night without waking up.

[Observer]

DANA PRETZER RADIO SHOW
Source: Dana Pretzer
Date: June 12, 2006
Link: http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=99859

Caller:

Jan from Pittsburgh. I happen to be a friend of the vdS, I have it on 100% authority from Anita that their house was completely searched except the younger brother's room, the yard was torn up and completely searched.

Dana:

The info is everything was searched?

Caller:

It wasn't necessary to search the younger boy's room but the remainder was completely searched.

I'm just trying to clear the air, I'm not trying to cause any trouble, I think it's important that there's accurrate information as well. I tried to put it out on the blogs a week ago and I got that directly from Anita van der Sloot herself.  

[klaasend]

DANA PRETZER RADIO SHOW
Source: Dana Pretzer
Date: June 12, 2006
Link: http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=99859

Caller:

Jan from Pittsburgh. I happen to be a friend of the vdS, I have it on 100% authority from Anita that their house was completely searched except the younger brother's room, the yard was torn up and completely searched.

Dana:

The info is everything was searched?

Caller:

It wasn't necessary to search the younger boy's room but the remainder was completely searched.

I'm just trying to clear the air, I'm not trying to cause any trouble, I think it's important that there's accurrate information as well. I tried to put it out on the blogs a week ago and I got that directly from Anita van der Sloot herself.  

I rest my case 

[Anna]

I believe I called into the Dana show right after that caller maybe and was able to point out that it was Dompig who was telling us the Sloot house was never searched.  He said they had it on their "Wish List" so either Dompig is lying or Anita.

Now that's a tough call as to which of those two would be telling the truth!  But we have the admission that the judge was on hand to limit the search to just the shed where Joran lives.  Why Anita has always claimed everything was searched is yet another thing to ponder.

I believe there is an interview of her somewhere claiming that even the flowers were dug up?  I don't think so, at least not prior to the KLPD looking around.

If they had been serious, they would have dug up the concrete around that pool as well.  Since they didn't, I don't expect much to come of their so-called search either.

If my son were suspected of this crime, given the coverage and effect on tourism, I would have asked that everything be searched from the beginning.

As I have asked before, who in their right mind starts pouring concrete while a murder suspect?  Talk about arrogance!

[klaasend]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

Big crisis within the MEP

Thijsen leaving the parliament hall, followed by angry fellow fraction members, after his request to suspend the budget consideration was allowed.

ORANJESTAD – The tension within the government party MEP raised high after fraction-leader Ady Thijsen requested the suspension of Minister Marisol Tromp’s budget consideration.  Premier Nelson Oduber had an emergency party meeting to dismiss the suspension, but he didn’t manage.

The budget consideration was supposed to start at 08:30 yesterday, but Thijsen was not present.   He arrived around 10:30 and requested a suspension.  His fraction members reacted very disgruntled.  Glenroy Wilson fired at Thijsen that he is not speaking on behalf of the entire fraction.  Chair of Parliament Mervin Wyatt Ras (MEP) decided to adjourn the meeting indefinitely.   

Thijsen is since then under a lot of pressure.  Oduber deliberated with him yesterday.  Oduber said over the radio today that the conversation went fine and that both had to laugh about the situation.  He didn’t really say whether Oduber has convinced Thijsen to support minister Tromp.  Thijsen is not available since his actions in Parliament yesterday morning; also because of threats from his own party.  When this paper went to press, Thijsen was still in deliberation with Oduber, according to Dirk Dumfries.

Thijsen is in a difficult situation.  He has no evidence whether minister Tromp has acted wrong with the issuing of long-lease grounds.  According to Dumfries, it’s not a matter of corruption, but speculation with options on long-lease grounds.  “It has been done this way for 40 years. We agree that there are a lot of speculations, but it is too difficult to do something against it.  We have no law to control this.

It is also a difficult problem that somebody buys an option and turns around and sells it via a complicated NV construction.  But this is a history that we all know, and Ady doesn’t.   The pressure on Thijsen is big.  He has financial, health problems, pressure from his family and supporters.  He also has problems with functioning as fraction leader.  He cannot substantiate matters as transparency for our fraction, but we knew that all along.  We have more political experience.”  Dumfries didn’t answer the question whether the fraction still trust Thijsen.