Natalee Case Discussion #680 8/31 - 9/16/2007

[Observer]

Just reposting this Awemainta article from June..This is the Kalpoe lawyer David Kock smiling big after the the wrongfull death case was thrown out. Klaas was gracious enough to convert this to JPG format for us..Thx

[klaasend]

******* - sorry I couldn't make it easier to read.  That said, we can't read it anyway, LOL

[carpe noctem]

Carpe! Oh, Thank you for bringing the show here! I was going to have to be up really late!
Here: my way of saying thanks~! 

 
 


AWESOME, CBB! Love it... brings our my natural color. 

Perfect, thank you.

[crazybabyborg]

OK, it's just a thought, but let me play devil's advocate here. What if ALE just "handpicked" the emails in agreement with Kock and indeed turned them over? If you think about it, what better way to "protect" tourism/public opinion than to have a win for 2 of the prime suspects in an American Court without ever having to haul them up in an Aruban Court? They just simply take the attitude that they don't know what happened to her, but hey, our ALE didn't screw a thing up. The guys everybody claims cannot be proven guilty because the cops screwed up, are innocent!
Would anyone put that past them?

[klaasend]

OK, it's just a thought, but let me play devil's advocate here. What if ALE just "handpicked" the emails in agreement with Kock and indeed turned them over? If you think about it, what better way to "protect" tourism/public opinion than to have a win for 2 of the prime suspects in an American Court without ever having to haul them up in an Aruban Court? They just simply take the attitude that they don't know what happened to her, but hey, our ALE didn't screw a thing up. The guys everybody claims cannot be proven guilty because the cops screwed up, are innocent!
Would anyone put that past them?

CBB - we aren't talking just emails.  We are talking about all the documents listed in the court papers.  Hundreds of pages of statements plus emails, etc.

[crazybabyborg]

OK, it's just a thought, but let me play devil's advocate here. What if ALE just "handpicked" the emails in agreement with Kock and indeed turned them over? If you think about it, what better way to "protect" tourism/public opinion than to have a win for 2 of the prime suspects in an American Court without ever having to haul them up in an Aruban Court? They just simply take the attitude that they don't know what happened to her, but hey, our ALE didn't screw a thing up. The guys everybody claims cannot be proven guilty because the cops screwed up, are innocent!
Would anyone put that past them?

CBB - we aren't talking just emails.  We are talking about all the documents listed in the court papers.  Hundreds of pages of statements plus emails, etc.

Oh................guess that's why I should actually WATCH the video that Carpe posted before I comment on the few minutes I saw, huh? OK, OK, BRB! 

[Observer]

******* - sorry I couldn't make it easier to read.  That said, we can't read it anyway, LOL

LOL!! Your right We can see the big smile on his face and also the article on the right that I think Dave Holloway took out about the reward. ..I know he placed a ad in diario not sure about this paper..They came out the same day..David Kock was probably bragging about his victory as I noticed he was in many articles that week

[oldfart]

Closing down all the tabs / windows etc..
But have to ask again..
If they drop the case... does what ever is in the case file become public record??
Just Wondering

TG   tomorrow is TIG
SeeYaByeeee

[Dihannah1]

I just watched the video from Carpe and he has the title right "Stuck on Stupid"!

Kalpoes: "We want to sue, but we don't want to provide any evidence to prove our case"!!!??? Just grant us our $800,000 and let us be on our way!!!.....hhhmmm...     OMG! Enough of this Bllsht! I wanna    Better yet!    ggggrrrrrr!!!!!

[sb]

Hi everyone, a few random thoughts:

Anita has lost weight and I highly doubt if Nutrasystem has anything to do with it. 

I am also anxious to see what kind of curves ALE/Justice Dept/Prosecutor's Office try to throw with regards to the "discovery" and release of documents.

I am not ready yet to declare that we have an avenue that will lead to what we are seeking in this latest court ruling. I don't like the ruling on Jaime Skeeters, his estate (family) STILL could be on the hook. For what good purpose, Judge? Why allow a suit against a deceased man? So someone can play the jackpot-justice card against his survivors?

[igsigs]

Dr. Phil on LKL friday night. Maybe the civil case will come up...maybe.

[oldfart]

   
Not TIG   but TGIF....

[klaasend]

Posted at Scrux:

polemic

Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 2

 Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:50 am    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Here are some observations:

1. Joran certainly seems complicit, otherwise there would have been no motivation for a cover-up story, especially one which was so pervasive and unrelenting for days while others (security guards) were incarcerated.

2. Jon's explanation about Paul's involvement is good logic. Extending that, as an attorney, Paul showed his training and inclination, when at the 3:00 am encounter, he advised Joran to say no more when he heard him rambling away with strange disjointed recollections from the evening. Paul was also days later advising Joran and the Kalpoes regarding how to handle themselves during police interrogations (normal advice from an attorney). Had he been part of the body disposal... Joran would have been ready with a better story and would have also been told to keep his mouth shut (certainly, no details about back seat fondling or embroidered panties would have been offered).

3. Medley's logic is also good about the ability of a 17 year old to dispose of a body so well that it couldn't be found. A more logical explanation (than that of Joran disposing of a body) is that someone else did it who had the facilities and manpower resources to make it happen quickly and without detection.

4. Perhaps the best assumption is that the beach story is yet another lie. Maybe not for Deepak and Satish, because they probably did drop off Natalee and Joran in that general location. A more likely conclusion is that Natalee died at a place where there were the kind of people available (and the kind who would be otherwise motivated) who could have made her body disappear quickly and secretively.

5. Most important in speculating this scenario is to have centrally in the equation, the most reasonable explanation for her death, for which, while it could have been merely from excess alcohol, a deadly combination of alcohol with recreational drugs is far more likely.

6. When all of those factors are put together, Joran and Natalee going, after the Kapoes dropped them off, to a house where drugs were sold and used on the premises would make the most sense (very much a conventional situation in the illicit drug world). Combining Natalee's wishes for the last chance to go wild before the morning flight with Joran's full knowledge of the ways of the island and its shady underbelly makes it quite logical that they would have sought just such a location.

7. At a drug dealer's house, (more upscale than the ghetto crack houses you read about in America)... a drug overdose (or reaction) could very likely have happened, or even a, not quite so sinister, situation could have occurred, with Natalee just going into a drug-induced stupor. Then, Joran would have been in a situation of not being able to stay (he's got classes) and Natalee unable to be aroused. The eventual beach "leaving" story is perhaps an embellishment of the exchange that happened there in the drug house. People in drug "comas" often just don't wake up... and in America, when it happens at drug dealers' houses, the bodies are sometimes placed in dumpsters or in secluded park locations. In Aruba, far out to sea probably would make the most sense.

8. Joran may not have known (and still may not know) the actual details of her death or the disposition of the body... but he would know enough (about who was involved) not to breathe a word and hence the intense deception even to this day. His beach story (after the Holiday Inn tale was exposed by security tapes) was, most likely, similarly another location, well away from where his departure from Natalee actually happened (and this new story was a place with no cameras). Joran was perhaps well equipped to mentally handle his deception (the latest one about the beach) by projecting and substituting in his mind his last scenes with Natalee at the drug house to the sandy beach, an environment that he would have known well from previous uneventful adventures with girls. Perhaps instead of the sand for his sexual dalliances they were on a couch or bunk at the dealer's house... where kicking off your shoes (and then being unable to find them in a darkened room) would also make sense. Leaving there in a hurry, he figured he could get them the next day (but, then the circumstances that unfolded would have ruled that out as a possibility).

9. A dead tourist girl in a drug house, an illegal business, which was perhaps allowed to exist under the eye of the local police (with appropriate payoffs), would have been a priority matter for quick resolution by the crime people, perhaps even several levels up from the actual dealer. Now, if we can allow ourselves to comprehend the likelihood of this kind of operation and this kind of a situation, then how a body could totally vanish with no trace of a crime, and why a young man, with an understandable fear of reprisals, would be able to never break under months of interrogation, really isn't much of a mystery.

10. There were subsequent events which give credence to this theory. Immediately following whatever happened, there were street whispers about the circumstances of the situation... some passed information on that Natalee was still recovering... that a tourist girl was still passed out at a drug house. This street talk... (loose lips always abound) quickly got around to the Americans (for a few bucks news travels fast) ... hence the med jet (there had to be very strong indications of veracity for anyone to pay the $39,000 fee to book a jet to come to Aruba and merely wait on the tarmac). Plus, members of the Alabama group were making the rounds of drug houses as the stories got repeated by many who knew this side of Aruba, but all the more substantiated by their commonality. By then, the information was certainly very second hand, but, mostly likely, with an original basis in the facts. But, by the time the flurry was fully underway... she wasn't just in a coma, she was dead... and now the story (with all the American media on the island so fast) was just too hot to allow to surface... so, it seems, the body was put out to sea and perhaps a few of those jibbering low level drug people were "transferred" to other locales to put a lid on the story. And now, no one is talking. Well almost no one.
 
 

[klaasend]

Closing down all the tabs / windows etc..
But have to ask again..
If they drop the case... does what ever is in the case file become public record??
Just Wondering

TG   tomorrow is TIG
SeeYaByeeee

Oldfart - I don't think dropping the Dr. Phil case has anything to do with the case file becoming public record.  The only thing I've heard is that when the case is CLOSED in Aruba the family (Beth and Dave) are supposed to get the case file.

[Kermit]

Kock stands to make a boatload of $$$ if the Kalpoe's win...yet is willing to give it all away over the case doc issue?

Does not make sense, unless Deepak or Satish made admissions in e-mails, chats or statements.

Admissions beyond the JC Croes chat transcript. IMO

Posted at RU by SMS:

sunmoonstars Posted:
Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:10 pm   

You can bet before the Kalpoe's attorneys took this case, they had considered ALL possibilites.
I highly doubt they will drop this suit over this or most anything else. They surely weighed all the costs before they filed. If there were an email of Deepak declaring he did anything to Natalee, I don't think he would be free. They filed knowing they could end up taking the stand in Ca. I just can't see there being an email confessing anything. 


@SMS - did you ever think maybe Deepak lied to you?

I think they were shall I say watched long ago. Their attorney's probably underestimated some things
Deepak Sharma Kalpoe
Email Address: deepak@gmail.com
ICQ# for Deepak - dpak21 252-461-510 or vidjai 166-625-525

ICQ # for Satish - Dilse 339-641-800 or King of Bling Bling 246-043-199

[crazybabyborg]

I watched and thanks again Carpe! 

Hmmmm, I don't know. I'm just so mistrustful of everything Aruban, including atty Kock. Greta's right; he is smart. I've been impressed that he's managed to keep K2 quiet. That's quite a contrast to Joran's big mouth. Kock filed a declaration that he would not give up the documents even if ordered to do so. I remember when he said he felt charges against his clients would be forthcoming very soon and I think he knows that the documents would hang them. However, I can't quite believe he would have participated in the suit without expecting this.

[igsigs]

Thanks Klaas, i see polemic is back.

I have a problem with the recent efforts to exclude Paulus based on the nature of the HI lie.

1) Why assume that Joran told him the truth, and that he had the proper info to form a better alibi?

2) Why assume that Paulus had ANY control over Joran, enough control to change a story that the sporter chose?

3) It ignores Janssen's *next day* comment.

4) It ignores Paulus' very shady PV statements in regard to Monday. (bag drop-off, computer searches)

5) Paulus' *broken HI camera* shenanigans on Monday night. Deepak said the cameras did not work. When did Paulus talk to Deepak/Joran about that?

6) Could have easily thought the cameras did not work or would never be checked that fast.

7) Why assume Paulus is clever...at all?

[Sue]

Dana,
I absolutely LOVED your show tonight WONDERFUL Job
Thank you

[Kiwi]

Thanks Klaas, i see polemic is back.

I have a problem with the recent efforts to exclude Paulus based on the nature of the HI lie.

1) Why assume that Joran told him the truth, and that he had the proper info to form a better alibi?

2) Why assume that Paulus had ANY control over Joran, enough control to change a story that the sporter chose?

3) It ignores Janssen's *next day* comment.

4) It ignores Paulus' very shady PV statements in regard to Monday. (bag drop-off, computer searches)

5) Paulus' *broken HI camera* shenanigans on Monday night. Deepak said the cameras did not work. When did Paulus talk to Deepak/Joran about that?

6) Could have easily thought the cameras did not work or would never be checked that fast.

7) Why assume Paulus is clever...at all?

Why did the Dutch investigating team not raid any drug houses on this last visit. Instead found Joran's more interesting?

[igsigs]

Civil Ruling                   H/T Jane @ BFN

The general law of California is that a plaintiff who has filed suit when there is a pending criminal matter concerning the same evidence, should not be permitted to sheild himself from legitimate discovery. Plaintiffs have no priviledge to seek damages, and then hinder the defendants in their attempt to defend themselves.

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/Kalpoe_v_Mcgraw/0907_ruling_order.pdf

This matter will not be stayed.

The court orders compliance within 25 days.