Natalee Case Discussion #696 11/27 - 11/29/2007

[klaasend]

I was wondering why the judge divided the lawyers up for 2K and then send multiple copies to Jorans lawyers outside of Aruba? Unless someone did something they were sworn not to do.

What makes you think JoeT actually has copies of anything?

Hmm good point, its much better to bluf your way back into the game.

JoeT is FOS.  He hasn't seen anything, he's reporting what Joran's Aruban attorney has told him.  He's a mouth piece and will be sorry he ever took the case.

[crazybabyborg]

Well, I'm going to try to get to bed again! Have a great night guys!

[klaasend]

Going to go play a couple games, will check back in about 10 minutes or so. 

[crazybabyborg]

I was wondering why the judge divided the lawyers up for 2K and then send multiple copies to Jorans lawyers outside of Aruba? Unless someone did something they were sworn not to do.

What makes you think JoeT actually has copies of anything?

Hmm good point, its much better to bluf your way back into the game.

JoeT is FOS.  He hasn't seen anything, he's reporting what Joran's Aruban attorney has told him.  He's a mouth piece and will be sorry he ever took the case.

Oh, I'll sleep better with those words on my mind! Nite, Klaas and thank you!

[Kiwi]

Nite all... time for this pup to sleep to. and well said...

[NYC_lover]

padpradasha posted at RU: 

Mos said he discussed the case with Janssen.


I think there is a new trio couple, with Mos, Karin Janssen and Dop Kruimel . 
And sure the couple between Karin Janssen and Dop Kruimel! 

[NYC_lover]

Mos: "Yes, it is true that at this moment we have not decided yet whether we will take Joran and the brothers K. to Court. That will also depend upon what the coming days they will declare about the contradictions". And what if they remain silent again? "That would, in this case, for sure not make their case any stonger".
 
What does this exact mean? Does someone know this? Is this remain silent better for the OM or Joran?

[klaasend]

Mos: "Yes, it is true that at this moment we have not decided yet whether we will take Joran and the brothers K. to Court. That will also depend upon what the coming days they will declare about the contradictions". And what if they remain silent again? "That would, in this case, for sure not make their case any stonger".
 
What does this exact mean? Does someone know this? Is this remain silent better for the OM or Joran?

I believe what MOS is saying is that if Joran or K2 refuse to talk it will make them look more guilty.

I'm going to call it a night too. 

GOODNIGHT ALL!

[NYC_lover]

Mos: "Yes, it is true that at this moment we have not decided yet whether we will take Joran and the brothers K. to Court. That will also depend upon what the coming days they will declare about the contradictions". And what if they remain silent again? "That would, in this case, for sure not make their case any stonger".
 
What does this exact mean? Does someone know this? Is this remain silent better for the OM or Joran?

I believe what MOS is saying is that if Joran or K2 refuse to talk it will make them look more guilty.

I'm going to call it a night too. 

GOODNIGHT ALL!

Ok, thank you! This was exact what I was think, but I was not sure about it.

Good night Klaasend!

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/  11/16/2007

This may already have been posted. There is another article in this same issue of Amigoe that I know has been posted - about Renée Gielen's exlusive photos.

Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate

Joran van der Sloot leaves the airport building of Hato via a side staircase, after a stopover from the Netherlands to Aruba, where he was interrogated during the weekend and was taken before the examining magistrate today.  The reason for the stopover in Curacao was to sidetrack the media in Aruba, which included almost all the American broadcasting stations and several from the Netherlands. {this was a photo caption.}

ORANJESTAD -- Joran van der Sloot (20) was interrogated this past weekend by Dutch and Aruban detectives under the direction of the Aruban chief of police Adolpho ‘Dolphi’ Richardson and one from Rotterdam.   

The examining magistrate heard Van der Sloot, who is suspected of manslaughter or serious body harm that resulted in the death of the American Natalee Holloway, this afternoon about extending the custody with eight days.  “We will definitely continue interrogating him in the next days”, said district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “Keeping him in custody is to get further down into the investigation.  This afternoon after 15:00, we will publish a press release about bringing Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate.”  This was after this paper went to press.   

Van der Sloot’s lawyers’ firm expects the custody to be automatically extended.  Bringing him before the law seems more like a formality, because in the procedure to get him in Aruba, the examining magistrate must have already examined all the documents; ‘kind of too late in the day”, said a representative of the firm.  The lawyers of the suspected brothers Deepak and Satish as well as that of Joran van der Sloot are still saying that they do not expect much of the ‘new evidence’ of the Public Prosecutor (OM): ‘The old information has been examined with new eyes’; ‘they have the same facts, but they have used a different pair of glasses’; and ‘like a shirt with four buttons instead of three’.   

One thing is for sure, the media interest is increasing in Aruba, but not with the same proportions an a few years ago, right after Holloway disappeared in May of 2005.  So now and then you can see camera teams in front of the office of the OM and the house of Van der Sloot’s family.     

Nobody wants to miss a glimpse when more is announced about the new evidence in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway.  There are meanwhile rumours about the arrival of journalist Greta van Susteren of Fox News.  She was in Aruba just recently promoting the book of Natalee’s mother, Beth Twitty, who will probably come to Aruba this week.   International media is trying to get in contact with Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA), but in vain.  They want to know whether the ‘reopening’ of the case has influenced the tourism.   

‘HAVE DRUGGED GIRLS BEFORE’

The suspects in the Holloway-case have supposedly drugged girls before, so they could take advantage of them afterwards, mentions De Telegraaf.   This same morning paper also mentions that ‘justice has given the former investigation leader a hard rap on the fingers’ and he is no longer allowed to say anything about the investigation.  “Police officer Gerard Dompig suggested that infiltrators were put in against Van der Sloot.”

Not just the Netherlands, but the entire world is following this case.  Each possible indication is therefore used to make an issue from.  Former district attorney Helen Lejeuz, who as a lawyer helps Natalee’s mother, Beth Holloway, told ABC that the suspects thought that their phones are no longer being tapped.  “It has been a long time and people tend to relax and perhaps talk – say things they have never said before – and prosecutors and policemen have good and well-trained ears.”

CBS News mentions a telephone tap, indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared.

Where, oh where, did the idea that Beth was on her way to Aruba originate? (Or for that matter, that Dave was - I've also seen that mentioned.) Can't imagine either of them being present at this time.

Here is the CBS report "indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared" --
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3539137n?source=search_video

To pick up Joran? To get his shoes? Or just more shape shifting?

[msmarple]

Editorial in The Birmingham News.

http://www.al.com/opinion/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/opinion/119624145913320.xml&coll=2

The hope is that rearrests in the Natalee Holloway case finally lead to justice in Aruba

Wednesday, November 28, 2007

THE ISSUE: Let's hope the rearrests of three men in the Natalee Holloway case lead, finally, to justice.

The family of Natalee Holloway has grieved for their loved one for 2½ years. What should have been a happy time in May 2005 - a trip to the Caribbean island of Aruba to celebrate high school graduation - turned tragic when the 18-year-old Mountain Brook girl never showed up for the flight home.

Hope in the initial days of Holloway's disappearance turned to despair. As days turned to weeks, and weeks into months, and a massive search turned up no trace of her, the family was forced to presume the worst: that Holloway had been murdered and her body disposed of.

Family members will continue to grieve, in some measure, for the rest of their days on Earth. But let's hope there was some small solace for them in the news out of Aruba last week.

Aruban police on Wednesday arrested three men who had been detained early in the investigation. Holloway was last seen leaving a bar with the three, Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, in the early hours of the morning on which she was scheduled to depart. The three, who have denied involvement in Holloway's disappearance, had been arrested in June 2005. But a judge ruled there was insufficient evidence to hold them, and they were released that September.

What's different this time?

Prosecutors cited "new incriminating evidence," which they have not disclosed, from cell phone calls and text messages between the brothers and van der Sloot. Sadly, prosecutors also said they have enough evidence to prove Holloway is dead.

The three men were arrested on suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in Holloway's death. On Friday, a judge ruled there was enough evidence to hold the Kalpoe brothers for the initial eight-day period, while van der Sloot arrived by plane from the Netherlands on Saturday night and was taken straight to jail. Monday, van der Sloot appeared before a judge in a closed hearing who ruled prosecutors can hold him for at least eight more days while they pursued their case.

Obviously, we've been here before. The hope this time is that prosecutors have the right men and have built a strong enough case against the three to convict them.

"I hope I'm not going to be disappointed," said Holloway's father, Dave, who is beginning another search for evidence of her remains in deep waters off Aruba.

Family members have been through so much in this very public case, which national television news seized upon and provided almost nonstop coverage of in its early days. They deserve to know what happened to their loved one. They deserve to be able to find her remains and give her a proper memorial service. They deserve to see justice for those who ended Natalee Holloway's life.

They don't deserve yet another disappointment.

 

[MumInOhio]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/  11/16/2007

This may already have been posted. There is another article in this same issue of Amigoe that I know has been posted - about Renée Gielen's exlusive photos.

Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate

Joran van der Sloot leaves the airport building of Hato via a side staircase, after a stopover from the Netherlands to Aruba, where he was interrogated during the weekend and was taken before the examining magistrate today.  The reason for the stopover in Curacao was to sidetrack the media in Aruba, which included almost all the American broadcasting stations and several from the Netherlands. {this was a photo caption.}

ORANJESTAD -- Joran van der Sloot (20) was interrogated this past weekend by Dutch and Aruban detectives under the direction of the Aruban chief of police Adolpho ‘Dolphi’ Richardson and one from Rotterdam.   

The examining magistrate heard Van der Sloot, who is suspected of manslaughter or serious body harm that resulted in the death of the American Natalee Holloway, this afternoon about extending the custody with eight days.  “We will definitely continue interrogating him in the next days”, said district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “Keeping him in custody is to get further down into the investigation.  This afternoon after 15:00, we will publish a press release about bringing Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate.”  This was after this paper went to press.   

Van der Sloot’s lawyers’ firm expects the custody to be automatically extended.  Bringing him before the law seems more like a formality, because in the procedure to get him in Aruba, the examining magistrate must have already examined all the documents; ‘kind of too late in the day”, said a representative of the firm.  The lawyers of the suspected brothers Deepak and Satish as well as that of Joran van der Sloot are still saying that they do not expect much of the ‘new evidence’ of the Public Prosecutor (OM): ‘The old information has been examined with new eyes’; ‘they have the same facts, but they have used a different pair of glasses’; and ‘like a shirt with four buttons instead of three’.   

One thing is for sure, the media interest is increasing in Aruba, but not with the same proportions an a few years ago, right after Holloway disappeared in May of 2005.  So now and then you can see camera teams in front of the office of the OM and the house of Van der Sloot’s family.     

Nobody wants to miss a glimpse when more is announced about the new evidence in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway.  There are meanwhile rumours about the arrival of journalist Greta van Susteren of Fox News.  She was in Aruba just recently promoting the book of Natalee’s mother, Beth Twitty, who will probably come to Aruba this week.   International media is trying to get in contact with Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA), but in vain.  They want to know whether the ‘reopening’ of the case has influenced the tourism.   

‘HAVE DRUGGED GIRLS BEFORE’

The suspects in the Holloway-case have supposedly drugged girls before, so they could take advantage of them afterwards, mentions De Telegraaf.   This same morning paper also mentions that ‘justice has given the former investigation leader a hard rap on the fingers’ and he is no longer allowed to say anything about the investigation.  “Police officer Gerard Dompig suggested that infiltrators were put in against Van der Sloot.”

Not just the Netherlands, but the entire world is following this case.  Each possible indication is therefore used to make an issue from.  Former district attorney Helen Lejeuz, who as a lawyer helps Natalee’s mother, Beth Holloway, told ABC that the suspects thought that their phones are no longer being tapped.  “It has been a long time and people tend to relax and perhaps talk – say things they have never said before – and prosecutors and policemen have good and well-trained ears.”

CBS News mentions a telephone tap, indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared.

Where, oh where, did the idea that Beth was on her way to Aruba originate? (Or for that matter, that Dave was - I've also seen that mentioned.) Can't imagine either of them being present at this time.

Here is the CBS report "indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared" --
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3539137n?source=search_video

To pick up Joran? To get his shoes? Or just more shape shifting?

Good morning Msmarple.....I 'think' it was posted from another site on Wednesday when the news of the arrests broke. I'm sure Beth is not going to go there and sit this one out. I thought that Dave was going to be involved with the search, but am not sure if this is still the case.

[MumInOhio]

quote from wreck...
That sure doesn't sound like someone who is simply taking a "shot in the dark!"
Dave Holloway could only grin wide when he talked about the ship and the trip.
I think they DO indeed KNOW where she is. This ship is the only one that can retrieve an object that deep. (Aruba knows this too -- they just did not have the ability to be able to move the body this time).
(my rant for the evening   ) .....Thanks, I've been saying the same

Puzzler.....It is quite possible that Dave and TES have had help on where to search. I recall JQK saying on TV that the FBI had been in contact with Beth and Dave a lot the past few weeks.

[MumInOhio]

quote from kat_gram
It is no crime to wash yer car in the middle of the night or to forget to mention it to the police.
The time for this neighbour to say anything was two 1/2 years ago.
Then, maybe they could ( oh no way, this is Aruba ) have done some forensics.
I think the pings have got them. Why did it take so long for those pings ? 
reply from san
I think someone got ahold of the real records that they didn't want to have them.... I agree San     



Thanks to Kermit for reminding us of all the connections and for bringing in the car pictures.Have to agree AZLady that license plate does travel. *******..thanks for the link to the car pic thread

Can't remember who posted about Larry Garrison and Deep Throat,sorry,but is it possible that Larry was right. We heard about this along time ago and I don't recall when it was exactly.

[Spock]

Mos: "Yes, it is true that at this moment we have not decided yet whether we will take Joran and the brothers K. to Court. That will also depend upon what the coming days they will declare about the contradictions". And what if they remain silent again? "That would, in this case, for sure not make their case any stonger".
 
What does this exact mean? Does someone know this? Is this remain silent better for the OM or Joran?

He is saying there is no "stay silent" and "get out of jail card". The Judge detained them to answer questions and if they continue to invoke their right to "say nothing" the Judge can invoke his right to jail them until they make a declaration with respect to the "new evidence". If it didnt work this way, there would be no point in detaining anyone.

[msmarple]

Morning Mum and Spock ...

Great to see Getagrip!

Murder & Crime thread - 43,495 views. Passed 43,000 since the last time I checked.

[Spock]

"CBS News mentions a telephone tap, indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared."

It is clear to me, that several people went back to the beach that night. If Deepak was one of them, it is likely he returned with his friend Croes. I recall in the statements Satish mentions that Deepak told him Croes was at C&C that night, and it was Croes that provided the HI alibi. I also suspect Paulus made the trip to cordinate the coverup. It is interesting that Paulus has no alibi for the night after 9 pm, and the Kalpoes/Joran  nothing after about 3:30 am.

[MumInOhio]

Morning Mum and Spock ...

Great to see Getagrip!

Murder & Crime thread - 43,495 views. Passed 43,000 since the last time I checked.

Congratulations! msmarple and thank you...I do toddle over there!

Spock I have never believed they pulled Steve in for lying about the HI story. Always wondered who he saw other than J2K at C&Cs that night!

[Silverfox]

 :shock:OK..OK...OK

Getting the Christmas Spirit here looking at everyone else's avatars.

May I have one please?

[MumInOhio]

:shock:OK..OK...OK

Getting the Christmas Spirit here looking at everyone else's avatars.

May I have one please?

Silverfox...if you go to the lounge...Christmas avatars...and leave CBB a message, I know she will be very happy to help you.